2013 jk 6-speed manual transmission "rattling" noise poll - Page 4 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK General Discussion Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


View Poll Results: 2013 JK 6-SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION "RATTLING" NOISE POLL
My 2013 JK 6-Speed "rattles," makes other odd noises, or has issues. 167 57.00%
My 2013 JK 6-Speed has no problems at all. 126 43.00%
Voters: 293. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 04-12-2013, 01:17 PM   #91
Jeeper
 
Mykul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 142
I've been hearing a rattle coming from my shifter area, in the 1500-2500 range. But it only starts after I've been driving for at least 20 min, some times 30-40 min, but always after 60+ min. It is silent first thing in the morning, or if I've given it time to cool down completely. It sounds like a tin sheet touching the exhaust or something else that vibrates. My first guess is its a heat shield not the transmission.

Mykul is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-17-2013, 01:37 AM   #92
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 8
I have a 2012 JKUR with about 3,400 miles on it. I informed the dealership at 1,500 miles of the rattle noise similar to what is described here and they could not find anything. I just got it back today after taking it on Monday complaining that the noise is getting louder. They claim that it sounds normal and they test drove another 2012 and indicated it sounds the same. However, they did replace the trans shift knob per starcases 1221000001 where other technicians hd similar experiences. Driving it home from the dealership I'm still hearing some rattle noise (not as loud as before) but it still there. I guess I will see if it gets worst again and take it back to the dealership.

Kangji15 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-17-2013, 05:08 AM   #93
Jeeper
 
somis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Somis, CA
Posts: 699
I have a 2007 JKUR with the 6-speed, just bought it from my grandpa about 2 weeks ago.
Now what I have noticed in comparison to my 97 2.5L (upgraded to AX-15) is:

1. The Shifter knob rattles like hell compared to my 97, especially offroad.
2. In low rpm (really putting a load on the engine), for example starting in second gear from a slow roll, I get a quick sheet metal sounding rattle from I do not know where. My guess is from the plate that covers the bell housing.
3. When shifting at normal rpm range, or when I'm pushing my shifts to a little higher rpm, I upshift, then disengage the clutch, right when the plates connect and engage I get a little bit of squeak in the driveline somewhere (maybe U-Joints?). It definitely sound like its coming from the rear half of the vehicle but sometimes I am surprised.

This vehicle only has 18k on it and has been serviced more often than schedule calls for.

All in all, none of these sounds really make me worried just wanted to share my experience with this transmission that is new to me.
__________________
When in doubt...FLAT OUT!
somis is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-17-2013, 02:41 PM   #94
Jeeper
 
efm-7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 221
I notice my rattle espeially when I'm outside of jeep checking the mailbox while it's still running.

Still waiting on reports of a catastrophic failure though. An autopsy on such a unit might provide more hints as to the cause of it.
__________________
2013 JK Sport S - Orange Crush
2005 TJ Sport - Patriot Blue - SOLD
efm-7 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-19-2013, 06:08 PM   #95
Newb
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 10
I have a brand new Wrangler that is making rattling noises around 2500 RPM mostly in 2nd and 1st gear, it gets louder as the vehicle heats up. It could almost be mistaken for engine knock, I suppose that sounds like marbles in a can? Pushing or pulling on the shifter knob doesn't eliminate the noise, though it may change the way it sounds slightly, I haven't decided yet.
McDaddy is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-22-2013, 09:24 PM   #96
Newb
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: cochrane, alberta
Posts: 9
The rattle

Just bought my 2013 jeep wrangler unlimited sahara, and brought it in with 1500 km on it for that "rattle" guess what its the tranny!! first car i bought and its a lemon!! it was the bearing in the rear of the tranny causing the problem, have owned this jeep for less than a month, will post the bill so you can see the issues and what parts they were. And i have got them to do a complete tranny overhaul with all new parts.

cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by doc5339 View Post
I have a 2013 JKUR on order, and noticed many guys on various JK forums complaining of "rattling" issues with their 6-Speed Manual Transmissions.

I would like to ask all new 2013 JK owners with Manual Transmissions to "chime-in" on this Poll, and elaborate with posts as you see fit.

Thanks in advance.
hydroweed is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-22-2013, 10:33 PM   #97
Jeeper
 
Blastek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydroweed View Post
Just bought my 2013 jeep wrangler unlimited sahara, and brought it in with 1500 km on it for that "rattle" guess what its the tranny!! first car i bought and its a lemon!! it was the bearing in the rear of the tranny causing the problem, have owned this jeep for less than a month, will post the bill so you can see the issues and what parts they were. And i have got them to do a complete tranny overhaul with all new parts.

cheers
Good luck with that. I had the rear trans bearing replaced on mine in my first repair. It seemed quiet for the first hour or so of driving. The noise returned with a vengeance after that.
__________________
2012 Deep Cherry Red JKU Sport S - Tickastar, 6 speed, 3.73, Dual Tops
Blastek is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-23-2013, 07:46 AM   #98
Jeeper
 
rich67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tampa
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydroweed View Post
Just bought my 2013 jeep wrangler unlimited sahara, and brought it in with 1500 km on it for that "rattle" guess what its the tranny!! first car i bought and its a lemon!! it was the bearing in the rear of the tranny causing the problem, have owned this jeep for less than a month, will post the bill so you can see the issues and what parts they were. And i have got them to do a complete tranny overhaul with all new parts.

cheers
Hardly a lemon with a rattle like that. I've owned plenty of cars, one that I actually successfully lemon lawed in Florida, and a gearshift rattle on my Jeep is a welcome noise, lol.
I am willing to bet that this issue may not be as serious as we think it is; I am not concerned about it much any longer. With a 5 year 50k powertrain warranty, I am waiting until it starts causing shifting/grinding issues before wasting my time trying to get a minor rattling noise eliminated.
Keep us posted though after the repair is done; I am willing to bet it won't change a thing. My solution has been to just take the top off as much as possible. I don't hear a thing.
__________________
2013 Wrangler Unlimited
Commando Green
rich67 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-23-2013, 10:59 PM   #99
Newb
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: cochrane, alberta
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich67 View Post
Hardly a lemon with a rattle like that. I've owned plenty of cars, one that I actually successfully lemon lawed in Florida, and a gearshift rattle on my Jeep is a welcome noise, lol.
I am willing to bet that this issue may not be as serious as we think it is; I am not concerned about it much any longer. With a 5 year 50k powertrain warranty, I am waiting until it starts causing shifting/grinding issues before wasting my time trying to get a minor rattling noise eliminated.
Keep us posted though after the repair is done; I am willing to bet it won't change a thing. My solution has been to just take the top off as much as possible. I don't hear a thing.
Thanks for the reply guys. And to me for them to put in a whole new tranny guts seems pretty serious to me. still in the shop and no date expectes in the next few days for pick up.
hydroweed is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-24-2013, 12:38 PM   #100
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmidd31 View Post
2013 JKUR with ~5000 miles and I have a rattle in the center stack/shifter area. At first I thought it was my hard top but now the soft top is on and noise is still there... 1800-2500 RPM in any gear under load/acceleration. Driving me bananas, time to head to the dealer!
Mine is coming from the transfer case shifter. While rattling if I put forward pressure on it no more rattle. Need to get to the dealer and have it looked at...
__________________
2013 JKUR Billet Silver
6 spd, Connectivity, Dual Top, and Heated Seats

MODS: ACE Sliders, JK-4D Spiderweb Shade, P285/70/17 Toyo Open Country AT II, Quadratec Mats (Front, Rear, Cargo), Surprise Straps Grab Handles
bmidd31 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-28-2013, 12:47 AM   #101
Newb
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: cochrane, alberta
Posts: 9
Ok so they replaced my whole tranny with a new one went in for test drive and now it's worse so they gave me the jeep rubicon off road edition till mine is done(will post what they did when I can get back on). I think we need to to a poll with the amount this is happening too as it seems to be a ton!!! Maybe enough complaints might recal something.
hydroweed is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-28-2013, 01:00 AM   #102
Jeeper
 
Blastek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydroweed View Post
Ok so they replaced my whole tranny with a new one went in for test drive and now it's worse so they gave me the jeep rubicon off road edition till mine is done(will post what they did when I can get back on). I think we need to to a poll with the amount this is happening too as it seems to be a ton!!! Maybe enough complaints might recal something.
Wow, that sucks. Someone posted something about a redesigned mount. It's crazy that the new trans did not fix it.
__________________
2012 Deep Cherry Red JKU Sport S - Tickastar, 6 speed, 3.73, Dual Tops
Blastek is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-28-2013, 10:34 AM   #103
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
SilverSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 20,954
Send a message via Yahoo to SilverSport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastek View Post
Wow, that sucks. Someone posted something about a redesigned mount. It's crazy that the new trans did not fix it.
X2. Unless the new tranny had issues.
__________________
"Own a Jeep and own a piece of history."

"The Hunter is not concerned with the opinion of the Wolf."
SilverSport is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-28-2013, 08:06 PM   #104
Newb
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydroweed View Post
Ok so they replaced my whole tranny with a new one went in for test drive and now it's worse so they gave me the jeep rubicon off road edition till mine is done(will post what they did when I can get back on). I think we need to to a poll with the amount this is happening too as it seems to be a ton!!! Maybe enough complaints might recal something.
Keep us posted. Doesn't sound like anyone has had any success getting this fixed so far, so I am holding off on taking mine in
McDaddy is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-28-2013, 08:25 PM   #105
PRS
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arvada, Co
Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeym View Post
I've noticed a rattle in mine also, not excessive, and can't hear it on the road, but hear it at the drive thru window. If I'm in 1st gear, and push in the clutch to coast to the window it def sounds like marbles in a can. When I first heard it I was concerned, now I'm used to it.

What I don't like about the manual Trans, is how finicky it is to drive. I've owned so many manual Trans trucks and jeeps and they were a blast to drive, but mine, it's a pain, wish I bought an auto. Very jerky, seems like the clutch and gas pedal are out of wack. I'm blaming it on the accelerator delay
Buy a Procal and fix the delay. There is a thread here and on other forums that are less than convinced. I can tell you it works. Be prepared for it to fail once or twice but stay with it. You will be pleased. It's called pairing like with your phone.
PRS is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-28-2013, 08:29 PM   #106
Jeeper
 
rich67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tampa
Posts: 184
I'd hold off unless there's a failure of some sort. There's no way I'm having someone rip out my transmission for an annoying noise. This is a noisy transmission just all around. There are clutch rattling noises, clanks, knocks and rattles. But the shifter is smooth, the gears change just fine, and it ain't broke to me.
__________________
2013 Wrangler Unlimited
Commando Green
rich67 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-28-2013, 09:16 PM   #107
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 117
I had mine in a few weeks ago. I got 2 rattle problems - one sounds like it's coming from behind the dash/firewall under acceleration. They said they "found a loose panel and fixed it" - they didn't -- not even close.

I left very explicit instructions on the trans noise - same as others here - warm engine, ~40mph around 2k rpm in 4th gear.

They drove it exactly 2.5 miles.. "yeah.. we don't hear nothin".

It does seem to come and go, my when it's bad, it sounds like a diesel. Kinda sounds like the motor "dieseling" under stress - but it's clearly coming from the trans.

I've got to take it back and take them for a ride when I get a chance... but it's just a hassle. Maybe when we get a stretch of good weather so I can use my motorcycle for transportation.

But I guess with new/backordered parts and other things goin on... waiting a lil won't be a bad thing.
__________________
Dan
Naperville, IL
dvitous is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-28-2013, 09:19 PM   #108
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
SilverSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 20,954
Send a message via Yahoo to SilverSport
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich67 View Post
I'd hold off unless there's a failure of some sort. There's no way I'm having someone rip out my transmission for an annoying noise. This is a noisy transmission just all around. There are clutch rattling noises, clanks, knocks and rattles. But the shifter is smooth, the gears change just fine, and it ain't broke to me.
I'm glad you feel that way, but this isn't my first manual transmission. And it wasn't just an annoying noise. Once my trans was out and opened up, they found loose synchros. Replaced the entire countershaft assembly becasue the 3rd and 4th synchros are available separately. Rattle noise gone.
__________________
"Own a Jeep and own a piece of history."

"The Hunter is not concerned with the opinion of the Wolf."
SilverSport is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-29-2013, 02:02 PM   #109
Jeeper
 
rich67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tampa
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSport View Post
I'm glad you feel that way, but this isn't my first manual transmission. And it wasn't just an annoying noise. Once my trans was out and opened up, they found loose synchros. Replaced the entire countershaft assembly becasue the 3rd and 4th synchros are available separately. Rattle noise gone.
I think yours is the only success story when it comes to getting the issue resolved. That's why I am apprehensive; I hear stories from others on here showing how their entire trans was ripped apart and parts replaced and the noise was still there. Not to say I doubt your story at all--quite the contrary. I will certainly be telling the mechanics about the countershaft issue if I ever take mine in. It is a hit-or-miss noise for me; it's one of those things that I will just drive over to the dealer if it's doing it one day and have them go for a ride. It just doesn't do it on a daily basis for me.
__________________
2013 Wrangler Unlimited
Commando Green
rich67 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-29-2013, 03:57 PM   #110
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7
I have noticed that my 4x4 shifter actually gets much quieter as the outside temp gets warmer. My 2012 was very noisy this winter (as I posted earlier, the same annoying rattle that most everyone describes while under engine load), and now that it is getting warmer things are getting very quiet. Around 60 degrees and the shifter rattle seems to go away. Very warm days, 70 degrees or above and its silent. It seems that something is loose somewhere and when the parts are cold it creates more play. If this stays constant, I have to say it is more of an annoyance than an actual mechanical issue. If anyone finds out the source of this rattle once and for all, please enlighten this forum. Until then, bring on the summer months!
TheGeneralRizzo is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-30-2013, 12:42 PM   #111
Jeeper
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Right behind you...
Posts: 226
I have a 2012 that had a rattle (like someone playing a tambourine under my center console) in 3 and 4. One dealership said "it was a Jeep thing". Went to second parts immediately ordered - 68164693-AA "Shifter T Spord E" (description). Part is 1+ week(s) out. I don't believe that will solve the problem but, at least they are trying.
__________________
The American Dream is not to own a house, car, and be employed. It's the freedom to pursue them.
DannyV is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-30-2013, 08:19 PM   #112
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
SilverSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 20,954
Send a message via Yahoo to SilverSport
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich67 View Post
I think yours is the only success story when it comes to getting the issue resolved. That's why I am apprehensive; I hear stories from others on here showing how their entire trans was ripped apart and parts replaced and the noise was still there. Not to say I doubt your story at all--quite the contrary. I will certainly be telling the mechanics about the countershaft issue if I ever take mine in. It is a hit-or-miss noise for me; it's one of those things that I will just drive over to the dealer if it's doing it one day and have them go for a ride. It just doesn't do it on a daily basis for me.
Didn't mean to come off as an asshat in my last post. Mine was a daily occurrence and the shop foreman at my dealer happened to be an old wrench turner who knew transmissions. But from driving many manuals I had a pretty good idea mine wasn't normal.
__________________
"Own a Jeep and own a piece of history."

"The Hunter is not concerned with the opinion of the Wolf."
SilverSport is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-01-2013, 04:23 PM   #113
Newb
 
Cusack14's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 8
New to this forum but dam gald to hear some of you are experiencing the same problems as I am. I have had 5 wranglers in a row and never had a problem until now. It rattles at idle. As I accelerate I get an annoying ticking in the clutch pedal and shifter. When on the highway it does this:
I have literally been trying to figure it out since I bought it almost 1yr ago. Have tken it in to the dealership several times and all they say is "cannot duplicate." Any ideas???
Cusack14 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-01-2013, 05:07 PM   #114
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
SilverSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 20,954
Send a message via Yahoo to SilverSport
Sound? Where's the sound? LOL

But seriously that seems like crazy vibration unless you are driving on a washboard road.
__________________
"Own a Jeep and own a piece of history."

"The Hunter is not concerned with the opinion of the Wolf."
SilverSport is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-01-2013, 09:20 PM   #115
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 117
I noticed my shifter was quite bouncy on the test drive (the day after my 99 TJ died)... any bump in the road threw the shifter around in ways I've never felt before. But I didn't (don't) have anything quite like that!
__________________
Dan
Naperville, IL
dvitous is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-01-2013, 10:24 PM   #116
Jeeper
 
Blastek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSport View Post
Sound? Where's the sound? LOL

But seriously that seems like crazy vibration unless you are driving on a washboard road.
^^ is that in 4th in motion, or in neutral?? I would look underneath and see if the transmission is vibrating at idle. it almost looks like you have a mount disconnected.
__________________
2012 Deep Cherry Red JKU Sport S - Tickastar, 6 speed, 3.73, Dual Tops
Blastek is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-02-2013, 09:50 AM   #117
Newb
 
Cusack14's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastek View Post
^^ is that in 4th in motion, or in neutral?? I would look underneath and see if the transmission is vibrating at idle. it almost looks like you have a mount disconnected.
Yea it's in motion and in 6th. I was going 74mph on cruise on a flat and brand new (so extremely smooth) stretch of highway. At highway speeds it is constant. Just drove 2,000 mi round trip, it did that for 14 straight hours. Can you imagine how annoying it is when the sun shines on a chrome shitfter knob that vibrates like that?

It vibrates to a lesser degree in 3,4 and 5 between 1,800 and 2,200 rpm. At idle it does the marble in the can sound. I have no idea if its a drive shaft etc etc.

I have got jeep involved and it goes in next week again. I blocked out much of my afternoon for a ride with a tech. I will not let him out of the car until he realizes that this is a problem! If no progress then it will be up to the courts to decide. I'll keep you guys posted.
Cusack14 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-06-2013, 12:53 PM   #118
Newb
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: cochrane, alberta
Posts: 9
Hey guys just an update to mine, they have now repalced the transmission for the second time, fly wheel, and whole clutch assembly, and still not fixing the issue, i have been in talks with chrysler to address this issue. YOU GUYS NEED TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE IN ORDER TO HAVE THE RECALL ISSUED ON THE 2012 AND 2013 OR ELSE NOTHING IS GOING TO GET DONE. I will be glad to give you guys the referance number chrysler has given me, also would like permission from all who are having this rattling noise to send all the complaints to chrysler in one hugh email so they have an idea of how many are having this issue. get back to me guys as i dont want any of you to go through this same deal i am, and p.s my dealership is in talks with chrysler now and they are hopefully in the next few week going to replace my vehical once chrysler has done everything they can do to try and solve this issue.
hydroweed is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-06-2013, 01:28 PM   #119
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
SilverSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 20,954
Send a message via Yahoo to SilverSport
^Geez Loueez! What's up with these transmissions?
__________________
"Own a Jeep and own a piece of history."

"The Hunter is not concerned with the opinion of the Wolf."
SilverSport is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-06-2013, 02:48 PM   #120
Jeeper
 
socal-jk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: LA/OC
Posts: 527
I'm not as concerned about the noise personally as I AM concerned that chrysler CAN'T tell me its normal and its not an issue. if it's just noise and it will never break fine. Thats the answer I can't get. From what I have been told by multiple people is its just a noisey box. Working on cars for a living I can understand that. I'm just unsure about having some random guy rip my box apart. Trans is a little more then just nuts and bolts and requires some more skill and finesse then a set of brakes. Sure some guys are good at them, others shouldn't even be doing services. Who will get my jeep?

__________________
2012 JK, Rock Krawler 2.5, Bilstien 5100's, Teraflex lower arms/track bars, Currie anti-rock, VDP stubby caps, Black Rock 909D's 285/70/17 Duratracss, Magnaflow ypipe and competition exhaust, 10a.e. Rubicon rear bumper, SRC sliders, G2 diff armor, H4 headlights and some other stuff....
2014 VW Jetta/1989 325i sleeper project/1968 house
socal-jk is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:13 AM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC