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Old 08-17-2012, 11:23 PM   #5551
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Originally Posted by keschete

I would say no. All the JK's are basically the same body style wise. Newer options, new motor, but I have a 2009 JK and there wouldn't be any place to put them unless it was above the back seat cup holders on the center console. The JK is so small, when I have people ride back there, the center vents just get aimed straight and it cools off fast.

Are you planning on anyone riding back there? Because they basically have to be midgets or kids. I have a few female friends who are small enough to climb over the passenger seat. You have to be pretty agile. You certainly aren't going to get a grown man back there comfortably.
Yep, kids 6 and 8 years old. Glad to learn the center vents reach the back seat

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Old 08-17-2012, 11:43 PM   #5552
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Just looked at a 13' JK and the seats seem way too soft...Sat in both a 12' and 13' and the 12' seemed to offer much more support, the 13' seemed so soft that you could easily feel the seat frame through the seat cushion. Of course I weigh about 235 (need to get back down to 210) but still had no problem with the 12'. Anyone else have this complaint?

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Old 08-18-2012, 12:05 AM   #5553
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I recently placed my order for a 2013 Rubicon however asked my dealer to hold the order for a few days while I did some research.....hoping others here can help me out with a decision.

I have a 4x4 now and have rarely used it much however I do make trips to the woods with mild off roading involved. My main concern is winter snowy and icy roads and my current Tacoma did very well this last winter with all the traction control features and 4x4.

I have read that for slow hard core rock crawling the Rubicon is always better. I also read that for snowy wet conditions the sport or Sahara with trac-Loc LSD is actually better than the open diff of the Rubicon.

I am a little confused on this.....when I ordered my Rubicon it did not have the trac-loc LSD rear as an option. It is showing up as an option for the sport and sahara. I found here that the locking diffs on the rubicon do not allow this as an option.

So if I am reading correct the Rubicon is much better for slow obstacle type off roading however does not have as much traction control options available as the other versions?....or does it? In 4H does the Rubicon have a disadvantage over a Sahara in 4H?

Sport is not an option as I must have the saddle interior that is not available for the sport. I have to decide before tomorrow evening as my dealer is holding my order in hand....as well as my deposit. I really also like the color matched fenders with black top on the Saharas but can do without that.

I think what is confusing me the most is that I was shocked to see other threads online where owners said the Rubicon was at a disadvantage in wet snowy conditions. I assumed the top of the line Jeep would be superior in every way however the lockers seem to make snowy roads much harder to drive on.....of course I know they are for 4 low only and designed for crawling rather than slippery conditions.

I am confused mostly about 4h as it seems the Rubicon is missing a feature of the others in 4h due to the front and rear lockers. Is the traction control and stability the same for both sahara and rubicon in 4h or will I miss having the trac-loc if I go with my current ordered Rubicon?

Sorry so long and a newbie question however this is a costly decision for me and I would like what is best for my needs....thanks for any help.
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:27 AM   #5554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop
I recently placed my order for a 2013 Rubicon however asked my dealer to hold the order for a few days while I did some research.....hoping others here can help me out with a decision.

I have a 4x4 now and have rarely used it much however I do make trips to the woods with mild off roading involved. My main concern is winter snowy and icy roads and my current Tacoma did very well this last winter with all the traction control features and 4x4.

I have read that for slow hard core rock crawling the Rubicon is always better. I also read that for snowy wet conditions the sport or Sahara with trac-Loc LSD is actually better than the open diff of the Rubicon.

I am a little confused on this.....when I ordered my Rubicon it did not have the trac-loc LSD rear as an option. It is showing up as an option for the sport and sahara. I found here that the locking diffs on the rubicon do not allow this as an option.

So if I am reading correct the Rubicon is much better for slow obstacle type off roading however does not have as much traction control options available as the other versions?....or does it? In 4H does the Rubicon have a disadvantage over a Sahara in 4H?

Sport is not an option as I must have the saddle interior that is not available for the sport. I have to decide before tomorrow evening as my dealer is holding my order in hand....as well as my deposit. I really also like the color matched fenders with black top on the Saharas but can do without that.

I think what is confusing me the most is that I was shocked to see other threads online where owners said the Rubicon was at a disadvantage in wet snowy conditions. I assumed the top of the line Jeep would be superior in every way however the lockers seem to make snowy roads much harder to drive on.....of course I know they are for 4 low only and designed for crawling rather than slippery conditions.

I am confused mostly about 4h as it seems the Rubicon is missing a feature of the others in 4h due to the front and rear lockers. Is the traction control and stability the same for both sahara and rubicon in 4h or will I miss having the trac-loc if I go with my current ordered Rubicon?

Sorry so long and a newbie question however this is a costly decision for me and I would like what is best for my needs....thanks for any help.
I wrestled with the same decision and ended up going with the Sahara. I figured I would never need the locking diffs (and they only can be engaged in 4L anyway) since I don't plan to do any rock crawling or serious off roading; just an occasional trip to the beach. I probably won't drive mine in the snow (the old Avalanche will be out in the crappy weather) but if I had to, I want the LSD.

If my needs change, I can always trade up to a Rubicon later. These things hold their value so well, there's really little risk in buying one.
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:38 AM   #5555
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Originally Posted by robocop View Post
I recently placed my order for a 2013 Rubicon however asked my dealer to hold the order for a few days while I did some research.....hoping others here can help me out with a decision.

I have a 4x4 now and have rarely used it much however I do make trips to the woods with mild off roading involved. My main concern is winter snowy and icy roads and my current Tacoma did very well this last winter with all the traction control features and 4x4.

I have read that for slow hard core rock crawling the Rubicon is always better. I also read that for snowy wet conditions the sport or Sahara with trac-Loc LSD is actually better than the open diff of the Rubicon.

I am a little confused on this.....when I ordered my Rubicon it did not have the trac-loc LSD rear as an option. It is showing up as an option for the sport and sahara. I found here that the locking diffs on the rubicon do not allow this as an option.

So if I am reading correct the Rubicon is much better for slow obstacle type off roading however does not have as much traction control options available as the other versions?....or does it? In 4H does the Rubicon have a disadvantage over a Sahara in 4H?

Sport is not an option as I must have the saddle interior that is not available for the sport. I have to decide before tomorrow evening as my dealer is holding my order in hand....as well as my deposit. I really also like the color matched fenders with black top on the Saharas but can do without that.

I think what is confusing me the most is that I was shocked to see other threads online where owners said the Rubicon was at a disadvantage in wet snowy conditions. I assumed the top of the line Jeep would be superior in every way however the lockers seem to make snowy roads much harder to drive on.....of course I know they are for 4 low only and designed for crawling rather than slippery conditions.

I am confused mostly about 4h as it seems the Rubicon is missing a feature of the others in 4h due to the front and rear lockers. Is the traction control and stability the same for both sahara and rubicon in 4h or will I miss having the trac-loc if I go with my current ordered Rubicon?

Sorry so long and a newbie question however this is a costly decision for me and I would like what is best for my needs....thanks for any help.
Not sure how the brake lock differential compares to the the limited slip differential, but the rubi has the brake lock differential which is supposed to be like the limited slip that is optional on the sahara. If you want to lock it yourself, you have the option in the rubi of engaging the manual locker, which locks the diffs and then the brake lock differential is disengaged.

awesome jeep vid:


http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/201...sd-115943.html
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:54 AM   #5556
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Although I am thoroughly aware of the 4WD system and how it works, I found that video to be great. Thumbs up!!
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:59 AM   #5557
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I drive my Rubicon up to Tahoe every weekend in the winter in sometimes very deep snow and have absolutely no problems. I think a lot depends on if people actually know how to drive in snow especially in the mountains. I can honestly say that the Rubi is the funniest vehicle I have driven in the snow and of course dirt. Here is a pic of my 2007.
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Old 08-18-2012, 02:19 AM   #5558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop View Post
I am a little confused on this.....when I ordered my Rubicon it did not have the trac-loc LSD rear as an option. It is showing up as an option for the sport and sahara. I found here that the locking diffs on the rubicon do not allow this as an option.

So if I am reading correct the Rubicon is much better for slow obstacle type off roading however does not have as much traction control options available as the other versions?....or does it? In 4H does the Rubicon have a disadvantage over a Sahara in 4H?


Sorry so long and a newbie question however this is a costly decision for me and I would like what is best for my needs....thanks for any help.
Your questions have a super complicated answer. The video posted is great explaining how each system works but it is strategically unbiased.

Any one who has ever been in the snow with a LSD knows it is better then the BLD. But, again, does it matter "technically"?

BLD is just electronic traction control... and it is available on a ton of cars, front wheel drive, rear wheel drive. On a nice summer day, hit the gas as your pulling out on a road with a little bit of gravel thats collected and your traction control applies the brakes slightly to keep the car in control. Sometimes, to a minor degree, this systems slows you down when it isn't the best, like pulling into traffic from a stop. Think about it like you are at a stop sign, turning right onto a road where heavy traffic is moving at 45mph, you would hit the gas hard to whip-in. The BLD will engage the brakes for a second as you move forward.

LSD is a mechanical system that works better because it shifts power (torque) to the non-spinning wheel rather then stopping the spinning wheel by applying brakes.

There is a maintenance consideration: LSD uses a clutch-type system and requires (I think) an oil additive (in the diff) to help the clutch work. And the clutch wears over time so it will eventually need to be rebuilt.

Between just BLD and LSD, the LSD is a better operating system but only by a hard to measure amount.

As you stated, the full lockers in the Rubi, even in snow, are the best system for traction hands down. But it only operates at VERY slow speeds... like if you get stuck! In a Rubi, good luck getting stuck. Probably aint going to happen. But the Rubi can get squirrly at driving speed or when you first start off just for a bit until the BLD takes over.

So whats better, well the Rubicon. Why? Because it a Rubicon... the most capable production 4x4 on the planet. The Rubicon would be even better if there could be a full locker setup AND the LSD but, mechanically, thats impossible. Is it worth the extra money if thats a concern over the LSD? No. The LSD will do you just fine.

So, has my word-puking answered the question?

You say you barely use your 4x4 now... Save your money. The Sahara (or whatever) with the LSD will perform as good as your Tacoma.
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Old 08-18-2012, 02:31 AM   #5559
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Mine came with a set of four Mopar grab handles and two coat hooks.
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Old 08-18-2012, 03:16 AM   #5560
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WTH!!!!!!!!

Same. Mine came with 4 grab handles and two clothing hangers.
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Old 08-18-2012, 04:15 AM   #5561
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Hey everyone.
Trying to get feedback on a dealer in northern ChesCo, PA. Anthony's in elverson, videon in west Chester or ambrosia in downingtown are in my area. Any positive or negative feedback or other dealers to check out for a 2013 wrangler?
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Old 08-18-2012, 05:11 AM   #5562
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Originally Posted by EyeintheSky57

BLD is just electronic traction control... and it is available on a ton of cars, front wheel drive, rear wheel drive. On a nice summer day, hit the gas as your pulling out on a road with a little bit of gravel thats collected and your traction control applies the brakes slightly to keep the car in control. Sometimes, to a minor degree, this systems slows you down when it isn't the best, like pulling into traffic from a stop. Think about it like you are at a stop sign, turning right onto a road where heavy traffic is moving at 45mph, you would hit the gas hard to whip-in. The BLD will engage the brakes for a second as you move forward.
Back when I was looking for a '12 Sport, I searched the whole area for a 3.73 with LSD. It seemed like everything I found had one but not the other. Later I realized the BLD would have probably worked fine. I was used to performance cars where is almost always a standard feature and would cost you a few tenths at the track if you didn't have one. I don't really understand why though. If the brake is only slowing down the spinning wheel, it seems like it shouldn't slow the whole car down.

I think the Rubicon's disadvantage in light snow has more to do with the mud terrain tires then the lack of an LSD, but they'll actually help in deep snow. I personally just wanted them just because they're mean looking.
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:09 AM   #5563
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leaving in 3hrs to pick up my 13' sahara. didn't get any sleep last night.
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:30 AM   #5564
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Thank you for the replies and yes it does help me to understand what to purchase for my needs much better. We do not have harsh winters here often however last winter we did. It was very nice to be able to drive home when so many others were stuck. Roads were solid white and 4h with all the traction control stuff got me home just fine.

Basically I was curious if a Sahara and Rubicon were at the bottom of a snowy wet hill and both had same tires would the Rubicon with BLD do as well with the Sahara that has both BLD and Trac-Loc rears?

I watched a few videos trying to learn more and saw some Rubicons do some amazing stuff. Most of the more experienced off roaders all said lockers make snowy driving worse. I watched a few videos showing lockers making a Jeep move sideways on snow and after watching that video linked above I see why now.

I am thinking of changing to a 2013 Sahara simply because it should be better than what I have now and I have been happy with my current set up for a while now. I do not like the 18 inch rims however plan to swap them first thing anyway. These new Jeeps are much more complicated than I thought however as this will be my first I feel it will not be my last.
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:40 AM   #5565
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Thank you for the replies and yes it does help me to understand what to purchase for my needs much better. We do not have harsh winters here often however last winter we did. It was very nice to be able to drive home when so many others were stuck. Roads were solid white and 4h with all the traction control stuff got me home just fine.

Basically I was curious if a Sahara and Rubicon were at the bottom of a snowy wet hill and both had same tires would the Rubicon with BLD do as well with the Sahara that has both BLD and Trac-Loc rears?

I watched a few videos trying to learn more and saw some Rubicons do some amazing stuff. Most of the more experienced off roaders all said lockers make snowy driving worse. I watched a few videos showing lockers making a Jeep move sideways on snow and after watching that video linked above I see why now.

I am thinking of changing to a 2013 Sahara simply because it should be better than what I have now and I have been happy with my current set up for a while now. I do not like the 18 inch rims however plan to swap them first thing anyway. These new Jeeps are much more complicated than I thought however as this will be my first I feel it will not be my last.
One other thing to add...

The tires on a Rubicon are more of a mud tire then the more "all-season" radials on the other models.

Where as mud tires do a great job of clearing mud and snow out of the tread, they are actually worse on ice.
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:56 AM   #5566
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Billet?

I've been looking at older colors as I see them and I'm wondering if Billet might be close to this? What do you think?
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:49 AM   #5567
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I've been looking at older colors as I see them and I'm wondering if Billet might be close to this? What do you think?
I think Billet will look more silver. It could by my eyes or the lightning, but that almost has a bronze or gold tinge to it.
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:51 AM   #5568
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I sure hope so. It is possible they are just using up old tan dashes and such to eventually change over to the all black (except seats).

Why would a picture with this alternate Jeep interior even exist, if it wasn't part of the plan?
This was the same picture that is used for the 2012 at some point, and it doesn't match what the interior actually looks likes. The pictures aren't exact. They updated the 2012 picture later. Or, my mind is going crazy... but i know i've seen that interior picture before.
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:53 AM   #5569
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VIN question

Has anyone that order Commando Green or Billet received their VIN yet? Or is the VIN not available until a few days before production starts? Thanks.
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:55 AM   #5570
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Charlie Nunley at Classic of Denton. No nonsense. Ordered at 3% below invoice. I know LarsA and others have ordered there as well.
What Blazer said! I was a little surprised to see, however, that "Classic" has already cashed my $1K deposit check when their (assistant) sales manager told me that it was like an earnest money deposit which I could get back at the time of delivery, if I wanted to finance the Jeep differently. I saw the previous thread on refundable vs non-refundable deposits, but didn't really question the dealership's request for the $1K deposit. Perhaps they would've accepted $500, but it didn't really matter to me.

I still fully intend to take delivery of my JKUR at the agreed-upon price (have a copy of the out-the-door pricing sheet, too), even if we don't come to an agreement on the value of our trade-in. In that case I'd just sell it privately, so it wouldn't be a deal-breaker.

What do you think? Should I be worried about the dealership's quick move to boost their cash flow?

Thanks,

LarsA
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:04 AM   #5571
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Has anyone that order Commando Green or Billet received their VIN yet? Or is the VIN not available until a few days before production starts? Thanks.
I have ordered Billet recieved the VIN two weeks ago.
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:06 AM   #5572
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I ordered my JKUR Commando on the 7th and received my VIN a few days later.
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:20 AM   #5573
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I have ordered Billet recieved the VIN two weeks ago.
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I ordered my JKUR Commando on the 7th and received my VIN a few days later.
Thanks, I appreciate the quick responses. I also ordered on 8/7, got my VONS that day, got the e-mail from Jeep a few days later, and can see more order in the VOTS where it says production scheduled. Did you get your VIN from your dealer or did it come as an automated e-mail from Jeep? I just hope I'm not in a situation where my dealer has low allocation or something like that would delay things...
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:27 AM   #5574
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What Blazer said! I was a little surprised to see, however, that "Classic" has already cashed my $1K deposit check when their (assistant) sales manager told me that it was like an earnest money deposit which I could get back at the time of delivery, if I wanted to finance the Jeep differently. I saw the previous thread on refundable vs non-refundable deposits, but didn't really question the dealership's request for the $1K deposit. Perhaps they would've accepted $500, but it didn't really matter to me.

I still fully intend to take delivery of my JKUR at the agreed-upon price (have a copy of the out-the-door pricing sheet, too), even if we don't come to an agreement on the value of our trade-in. In that case I'd just sell it privately, so it wouldn't be a deal-breaker.

What do you think? Should I be worried about the dealership's quick move to boost their cash flow?

Thanks,

LarsA
Why wouldn't they cash the check?
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:31 AM   #5575
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I think I shoulda posted these here
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:36 AM   #5576
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Picked up my new rubicon at the dealer 2 nights ago. I called Friday 8/11 and they said that it was built and waiting to be shipped, but not yet shipped. Estimated for Friday 8/18 delivery, but could be late since it wasn't loaded for delivery yet. Dealer called in the morning on 8/15 to say it was here But, I couldn't get over there until the next day to get it

Here are a couple pics i snapped at the dealer with my crummy phone. Will try to get some better ones up later today.

I know there have been mixed reviews, but I love the new rubi wheels on the white. Also, the interior is black leather. Rubicon is stitched into seat in black

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Old 08-18-2012, 09:37 AM   #5577
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I received the VIN from my dealer, I never did receive an email from Jeep.
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:39 AM   #5578
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Picked up my new rubicon at the dealer 2 nights ago. I called Friday 8/11 and they said that it was built and waiting to be shipped, but not yet shipped. Estimated for Friday 8/18 delivery, but could be late since it wasn't loaded for delivery yet. Dealer called in the morning on 8/15 to say it was here But, I couldn't get over there until the next day to get it

Here are a couple pics i snapped at the dealer with my crummy phone. Will try to get some better ones up later today.

I know there have been mixed reviews, but I love the new rubi wheels on the white. Also, the interior is black leather. Rubicon is stitched into seat in black
Wonder why Sahara is stitched in yellow, and rubicon is not yellow?
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:24 AM   #5579
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:30 AM   #5580
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leaving in 3hrs to pick up my 13' sahara. didn't get any sleep last night.
I went through the same thing last Friday, congrats.

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