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Old 06-08-2012, 04:35 PM   #691
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Originally Posted by Void For Vagueness View Post
Pat, thanks for your explanation of the VPA. Two questions:

1. So are dealers even more motivated to move stock that DOES qualify?

2. Is there any reason a dealer would rather sell a new model off the lot than order one? Both sales have the same effect on the quota, right?

Thanks again. I'm new here but I find your posts especially helpful. If all auto salespeople were as straightforward as you are, I think we'd all be better off - including the salespeople!
1. Some might be, most see the big picture and sell whatever they can to hit the objective

2. Off the lot is a "now" sale and counts this month. Ordering is a sale down the road and the money back changes every quarter. If a dealer can get $800 back now and only $400 in 2 months they are going to want the $800.

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Old 06-08-2012, 04:36 PM   #692
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...If all auto salespeople were as straightforward as you are, I think we'd all be better off - including the salespeople!
AMEN to that!!!!

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Old 06-08-2012, 04:38 PM   #693
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Holdback on my rig is shown on the order sheet as $1261, which works out to 2.9992% of $42,045 ($42,970 MSRP less $925 destination).

My invoice price is listed as $40,126, and 3% of that is $1203.78.
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:38 PM   #694
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It's always more beneficial for a dealer to move current inventory than order....that's common sense.
Correct, dealers pay floor plan interest and that adds up if a dealer has a huge inventory. Like mine, I think we have close to 400 new vehicles in stock. Our floorplan bill is huge.
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:38 PM   #695
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Note to all dealers out there...

Don't order so damn many black and silver Wranglers... That is pretty much all that is left on the lots.....and there is a good reason for it...
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:44 PM   #696
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Correct, dealers pay floor plan interest and that adds up if a dealer has a huge inventory. Like mine, I think we have close to 400 new vehicles in stock. Our floorplan bill is huge.
You pay this interest to Chrysler? What's the rationale? Sorry for the newb questions- I'm just a curious person.
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:49 PM   #697
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Note to all dealers out there...

Don't order so damn many black and silver Wranglers... That is pretty much all that is left on the lots.....and there is a good reason for it...
LOL, then why couldn't I find a silver Sahara 2-door with body-color top optioned how I wanted it.....

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Old 06-08-2012, 04:52 PM   #698
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Pat, thanks as always for your comments, very informative.
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:56 PM   #699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Void For Vagueness

You pay this interest to Chrysler? What's the rationale? Sorry for the newb questions- I'm just a curious person.
Dude, think of it like this: You now own a dealership. You start your inventory with 20 vehicles that YOU bought. Your very first customer comes through the door--he wants you to order a car! Well, you have 20 cars you just purchased! Imagine if every customer wanted you to order, as well...

Don't overthink it is all I'm saying.
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:02 PM   #700
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Dude, think of it like this: You now own a dealership. You start your inventory with 20 vehicles that YOU bought. Your very first customer comes through the door--he wants you to order a car! Well, you have 20 cars you just purchased! Imagine if every customer wanted you to order, as well...

Don't overthink it is all I'm saying.
Yeah, I get that dealers want to move stock. I saw your kind and not-at-all arrogant response to that already, thank you very much. Now I'm interested in learning about the floorplan interest.

Thanks for your advice, but I'll think about whatever I want, dude.
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:06 PM   #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
Note to all dealers out there...

Don't order so damn many black and silver Wranglers... That is pretty much all that is left on the lots.....and there is a good reason for it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strokerswild View Post
LOL, then why couldn't I find a silver Sahara 2-door with body-color top optioned how I wanted it.....

Oh you can find plenty of silver....it is the "how I want part" that is the issue.

2nd note to the dealers.

Quit ordering dumb shit on your fleet vehicles.

No...I don't want the damn chrome package....especially if the vehicle does not have LSD or Connectivity or something that is actually important.
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:08 PM   #702
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1. Some might be, most see the big picture and sell whatever they can to hit the objective

2. Off the lot is a "now" sale and counts this month. Ordering is a sale down the road and the money back changes every quarter. If a dealer can get $800 back now and only $400 in 2 months they are going to want the $800.

So Pat, how might we find out if the Wrangler Unlimiteds are currently counted as cash back vehicles? Knowing that could certainly help us with our haggling, especially those of us across the country from your no nonsense sales approach, which is much appreciated!

T
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:09 PM   #703
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Dude, think of it like this: You now own a dealership. You start your inventory with 20 vehicles that YOU bought. Your very first customer comes through the door--he wants you to order a car! Well, you have 20 cars you just purchased! Imagine if every customer wanted you to order, as well...

Don't overthink it is all I'm saying.
There's a flip side to this, when I custom order my new Jeep the dealer won't be sitting on it for weeks or months trying to sell it. Fast money.
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:15 PM   #704
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Yeah, I get that dealers want to move stock. I saw your kind and not-at-all arrogant response to that already, thank you very much. Now I'm interested in learning about the floorplan interest.

Thanks for your advice, but I'll think about whatever I want, dude.
Chrysler isn't the one financing the floor plan, a bank is. A floor plan is basically a line of credit a dealership establishes to fund their inventory. Once a car is sold, the dealership typically has a day or two to pay down their floor plan line by the invoice amount of the sold car. The bank will do random dealer checks to identify that the cars held as collateral are actually sitting on the lot.
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:25 PM   #705
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Leave your memory alone, both methods work. That's the important thing, plus I really don't want you to try to move stuff around up there just so you can cram in more info!
That's OK, it's pretty empty up there....
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:52 PM   #706
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Chrysler isn't the one financing the floor plan, a bank is. A floor plan is basically a line of credit a dealership establishes to fund their inventory. Once a car is sold, the dealership typically has a day or two to pay down their floor plan line by the invoice amount of the sold car. The bank will do random dealer checks to identify that the cars held as collateral are actually sitting on the lot.
Right but it's still a huge amount of money per month. We floor plan with BOA but it might change to Chase since Ally Bank and Chrysler are going their separate ways soon. ALLY is our lender but we will probably go to chase and then floorplan with them. Our floorplan averages 25-30,000 per month.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:06 PM   #707
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Note to all dealers out there...

Don't order so damn many black and silver Wranglers... That is pretty much all that is left on the lots.....and there is a good reason for it...
That and they're all MW3.

No offense to MW3 owners, just what were dealers thinking ordering a bazillion of them?
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:11 PM   #708
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That and they're all MW3.

No offense to MW3 owners, just what were dealers thinking ordering a bazillion of them?
We ordered a ton just like last year. We sat on them last year and same this year. Last year we had numerous people come from out of state for them and already this year we are getting dealer trade calls from as far away as Texas and New York. We'll sell them.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:13 PM   #709
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That and they're all MW3.

No offense to MW3 owners, just what were dealers thinking ordering a bazillion of them?
Oh and I'm a MW3 owner and just today at the local hot dog joint I was told how awesome my Jeep is by lots of high schoolers. Yeah it's time to officially debadge and not rebadge like last time.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:20 PM   #710
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We ordered a ton just like last year. We sat on them last year and same this year. Last year we had numerous people come from out of state for them and already this year we are getting dealer trade calls from as far away as Texas and New York. We'll sell them.
That's crazy. Here in Colorado there's a bunch sitting on lots and no Rubicons. I don't know if it's a regional thing, but I don't think the MW3 was a big hit here where custom Jeeps are all over the place. I've not seen a single one of the road, but they're littered around like dead flies at the dealerships.

That's pretty smart though. Sitting on them and getting dealer trades out of them. Makes sense... must be what the dealerships are doing here, though I've seen them discounting them $3-4K off MSRP as a starting point.

BTW, I've got family up by you. I may have found a dealership I can work with, but we're in the early stages. If not, I'm totally gonna buy from you this fall. Like others have said, thanks for the candidness. It helps. I want a good deal but I want my dealership to make money too, and knowing some of this stuff helps me negotiate a good deal without being a jerk and going too far.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:21 PM   #711
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Oh and I'm a MW3 owner and just today at the local hot dog joint I was told how awesome my Jeep is by lots of high schoolers. Yeah it's time to officially debadge and not rebadge like last time.
That's awesome.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:28 PM   #712
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I want a good deal but I want my dealership to make money too, and knowing some of this stuff helps me negotiate a good deal without being a jerk and going too far.

Totally. Like I said, if they were all more like that, everyone would be better off. I think most of us understand that dealers need to get paid too- they provide a useful service, and dealerships have overhead and have to stay competitive, etc. I just don't feeling like someone is sneaking cash out of my pockets while pretending to "help me out." If a dealer were just straight up with me about the true cost of a jeep and the amount headed his way, I'd feel totally fine with compensating him. If all dealers acted in kind, they'd be able to compete with each other much more efficiently rather than wasting time and money adjusting offers in the dark. Just my $.02.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:41 PM   #713
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Little by little I'll start changing the perception of the auto industry. I know, it's a lofty goal...

But from what I have read here, some of the folks are taking the info from here and putting deals together and so far I haven't really heard anyone say they got the price they wanted but still had a horrible experience. As I have already said here in numerous other threads, price isn't everything. It's 80-90% of it, the other 10-20% is making sure you buy from a dealer that is going to take care of you after that sale. You want a dealer that's in it with you for the long haul. All I can say is while researching the product and price, spend 15 minutes and research the dealership. Go to the online review sites, the BBB, and make sure you are spending your money in the right place. Anyone can sell you a Jeep, it comes down to which place is going to give you the best customer service years down the road.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:55 PM   #714
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Right but it's still a huge amount of money per month. We floor plan with BOA but it might change to Chase since Ally Bank and Chrysler are going their separate ways soon. ALLY is our lender but we will probably go to chase and then floorplan with them. Our floorplan averages 25-30,000 per month.
I understand how much it is.....I've helped put a few floor plan deals together

Many people think car makers just send them out to dealers to sell, when its nothing like that at all.
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:40 PM   #715
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No need for Photoshop on this one, see post #590
Ah, I thought that was the current silver.

It looks much lighter than the swatch.

Here's hoping that dune is also much lighter than the swatch...
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:41 PM   #716
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I feel like I read it somewhere, if so I can't find it so my apologies for possibly asking this again: I will be ordering a JKU Sahara a.s.a.p., what has changed to the base JKU Sahara, what have they dropped and what have they added to the base?

@ pat, thanks for the all the info, I appreciate the time and effort you put into this. If I would live closer to you I would get it from you, I like the way you conduct business.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:02 PM   #717
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Pat,

I didn't see the base invoice and MSRP for a Sport S model in your numbers. I'm making a 2013 Wrangler pricing spreadsheet that I plan to post here once I'm finished with it.

Thanks,
Ron
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:26 PM   #718
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Pat, thanks for all the info regarding dealer pricing and dealer shopping

Do you have any insight on military sales? I purchased my Jeep while in Okinawa and will be picking it up at a dealership just outside St Louis.

I didn't really look into the dealership, I figured it was just a holding spot. If I had warranty issues, can't I take it into whatever dealership I so please?
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:34 PM   #719
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All,

As I indicated earlier, I'm trying to make a 2013 Wrangler pricing spreadsheet. I'm learning a lot about the Wrangler pricing scheme as I create this. I have a question. Are the invoice and MSRP prices for the optional items the same for the 2 door and the 4 door? For example, Pat posted the following and labeled it "Rubicon". Are these the prices for the options for both the 2 door and the 4 door Rubi?

DMF 4.10 Rear Axle Ratio 85 95
Climate Control Options
HAB Air Conditioning w/Auto Temp Control 138 155
Climate Control Groups
AAJ Connectivity Group 432 485
Convenience/Security Options
CJ1 Supplemental Frt Seat Side Air Bags 441 495
JPM Heated Front Seats 223 250
Sound Systems
RHB Uconnect 430N CD/DVD/MP3/HDD/NAV 921 1,035
RHR Uconnect 730N CD/DVD/MP3/HDD/NAV 1,642 1,845
Additional Equipment Groups
AWS Smoker's Group 27 30
Additional Features
AEM Dual Top Group 1,856 2,085
AHQ Max Tow Package 347 390
CWA MOPAR Slush Mats 85 95
GCH Half Metal Doors with Locks 0 0
MML Body Color Fender Flares 178 200
MX1 Body Color 3-Piece Hard Top 1,598 1,795
MX3 Black 3-Piece Hard Top 708 795
MX5 Premium Black Sunrider Soft Top 356 400
NHK Engine Block Heater 85 95
XBM Remote Start System 441 495
YEP Manuf Statement of Origin 0 0

Thanks,
Ron
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:37 PM   #720
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Quote:
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Pat, thanks for all the info regarding dealer pricing and dealer shopping

Do you have any insight on military sales? I purchased my Jeep while in Okinawa and will be picking it up at a dealership just outside St Louis.

I didn't really look into the dealership, I figured it was just a holding spot. If I had warranty issues, can't I take it into whatever dealership I so please?
I hope Pat is probably (hopefully) at home, relaxing after selling Jeeps all day, AND helping us out on the side! As you can see, Pat's the man around here.

But, anybody can tell you that ALL Jeep dealerships will honor your warranty. Take our pick. Some dealerships will favor those who bought from them in scheduling, etc., but all will help you.


And... Thank you for your service, friend!

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