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Old 06-10-2012, 08:37 AM   #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robskully View Post
Damm great video .... I even D/L it for future use !
But ....
After watching your video link (thanks) it does seem wicked easy BUT
now I am concerned about anyone being able to steal the windows and anything inside.
Damm .... they just zipper off :-(
Think they could have put the zippers on the INSIDE instead !
Rob ....
If you want security with a soft top then get security boxes liky Tuffy to store your stuff. A box cutter will slice open a soft top just as easily with the zippers on the inside.

http://www.tuffyproducts.com/

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Old 06-10-2012, 08:39 AM   #782
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Originally Posted by zflat View Post
I am in the same boat as you. The military car sales people were my best friend and emailed me daily through the whole process of building my Jeep, but as soon as I gave them that down payment they became much harder to contact. These people work directly with Chrysler, they should be able to send me all of the information on my jeep by now (colors, updated pricing, what options will or won't be available in the first round of ordering) but I am not hearing squat back from them. I am very close to getting my money back and doing like you said, and just ordering from a stateside dealership.

How about you JayMan, are you having the same experience or are you getting better info from the sales people?
They are responsive but not proactive in getting information to you. I did contact them about getting my deposite back and they are willing to hold the order with minimum deposit ($300) until I order in the fall. I think i'll probably just pull my deposite back and order from a dealer when I get back (NEXT WEEK! )

I can get USAA pricing and still be ok. Also gives me the advantage of any minor mods or upgrades I can get done at the dealer and pool that into the finance amount. I have to get a knock around car either way but now I can do a trade in too.

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Old 06-10-2012, 10:05 AM   #783
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Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
He is probably referring to "tint" but not "deep tint".

"Tint" is so light that it should net even be called tint. "Deep tint" (Code GCD for $300) is the dark stuff that you are probably thinking of.
Thanks! I'll give him that option code and tell him to correct my build before they submit it.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:55 AM   #784
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Originally Posted by mcdull View Post
I think it's not just Military Jeeps but most cars, if not all, call it Map Light. I guess they're now changing the name in response to the changes in technology. We don't read map using the Map Light anymore, the map is now glowing on the LCD screen

I would also be worry if the military are still relying on a piece of paper for navigation.
I would worry about YOU... You're not supposed to go out there with a GPS only. You need to carry map and compass, depending on what you're doing. The military is under a greater threat of being EMP'ed or jammed, so in that case, they can always fall back to paper maps, or barring features in the desert, "make the box" to find their way back to a known main road. You have to have these skills, as they could save your life.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:00 AM   #785
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Originally Posted by RubiNewb View Post
good lord, what is wrong with 5 spd auto or 6 spd manual? Having an auto trans with 8 spds is just beyond me. I feel like the trans would be constantly shifting which can't be good long term.

It's all a conspiracy... Made to make work for the transmission techs... They'll be so complicated the techs would have to have the equivalent of power plant certification and licensing in the aviation industry. THEN, it would become ILLEGAL to do certain things on your vehicle that you have always been able to do, given a place and tools to do it.
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:04 PM   #786
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Originally Posted by JayMan5150 View Post

I can get USAA pricing and still be ok. Also gives me the advantage of any minor mods or upgrades I can get done at the dealer and pool that into the finance amount. I have to get a knock around car either way but now I can do a trade in too.
Wish I could get the USAA pricing here in Hawaii! Im ready to pull the trigger as soon as The green is available to order
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:16 PM   #787
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Originally Posted by pat@fieldsauto.com View Post
I don't ever remember the base sport having a power convenience package. We had lots of the C package Unlimiteds and none had power.
The way I remember it is the unlimited sport with the S package had the power package standard, the 2 door sport with S package, the power options were just that an option. The 2 dr B package power was not an option and the unlimited C package power was not an option.
Maybe I'm wrong... too much info swirling around in my head and not at home so I can't go into dealerconnect to double check.
Chicago is having some really awesome weather and it's a perfect night to be cruising topless!!!!
I'm wondering if it was a mid year change and the power package became available when Katzkins became available? You can get an unlimited C package with the power package....I posted a link to one on not too long ago...but that one did have Katzkins as well. If Katzkins are gone, maybe that option is gone again? I know there was some kind of change, because I remember the power package originally not including an alarm...but that might have been on a Sport S. And yeah.....it would be great to be topless right now. I'm sure it is nice and sunny and a bit cooler lakeside. Out here in the far West/Southwest burbs...it is just hot.....too hot to put on my jeans and boots and helmet and riding jacket.....so I can't even get on my motorcycle. Shorts, a t-shirt, and a pair of flip-flops hanging out of a door-less Jeep would be awesome....
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:34 PM   #788
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Anyone know about the new leather seating? I like the looks of the seat design but will the leather still be like the durable McKinley? Seems that there is also a black option but its not katzkin any longer.
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:41 PM   #789
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Originally Posted by panthermark

I'm wondering if it was a mid year change and the power package became available when Katzkins became available? You can get an unlimited C package with the power package....I posted a link to one on not too long ago...but that one did have Katzkins as well. If Katzkins are gone, maybe that option is gone again? I know there was some kind of change, because I remember the power package originally not including an alarm...but that might have been on a Sport S. And yeah.....it would be great to be topless right now. I'm sure it is nice and sunny and a bit cooler lakeside. Out here in the far West/Southwest burbs...it is just hot.....too hot to put on my jeans and boots and helmet and riding jacket.....so I can't even get on my motorcycle. Shorts, a t-shirt, and a pair of flip-flops hanging out of a door-less Jeep would be awesome....
That's right they grouped the katzkin with the power package.

It's hot again today, once I finish pressure washing the house I'm going to gear up and head toward twin lakes and alpine valley. I love my wrangler but the bike is getting a little jealous.
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:54 PM   #790
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Originally Posted by DukeofJeep
Anyone know about the new leather seating? I like the looks of the seat design but will the leather still be like the durable McKinley? Seems that there is also a black option but its not katzkin any longer.
Not that this really means anything, but all I have been told is the leather is different.
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Old 06-10-2012, 01:15 PM   #791
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My interest in Jeeps is similar in a way to my interest in high performance sports cars – better enjoyment of the moment. Also have Ferrari Mondial t Cabriolet</SPAN> (rag top man).
When I was first thinking about a Ferrari, I chatted with a doctor in San Francisco. He said that Ferrari driving was worth whatever one had to pay for it.
His practice involved dealing with dying people. After many work days, he was not human. After a 20 minute drive home in the Ferrari, he was human again and could enjoy his wife and children.
He also said it was cheaper than Prozac. At $8,000 + for a Ferrari clutch job and discounted price of $800 for a Ferrari oil change, do not know it if is cheaper than Prozac. However, both Jeeps and Ferraris are great for getting better into the moment.
Think Jeeps are cheaper then Prozac – well maybe.
My reasons for buying Jeeps are different than most people.
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Old 06-10-2012, 02:17 PM   #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robskully View Post
I want to thank everyone here that gives all the info to help us make
great decisions about buying a Jeep. I took the info and made decisions
on what I (Wife & I) would like and the advice about "HOW TO" go about
contacting a Dealer and finalizing a GREAT deal. This will be my (Wife & I)
first EVER Jeep and actually NEVER even been in one before until we went
for a demo ride just about a month and a half ago. I went first to just
LOOK FOR a new daily driver. The Jeep wasn't even on the list BUT lo and
behold it was a Dodge/Jeep dealer and the Unlimited Wrangler caught my
eye so I said what the hell give me the keys for a demo ride. Impressed to
say the least and the following weekend took the Wife back so she could
drive it. Needless to say it did not take long for her to fal in love with it.
Her DD is a 2005 Avalanche and the Jeep is much more to her liking now.
Just a few more things to do before putting the deposit down, one being
to see how the soft top actually works because it was not in our original
plans BUT since they say the 2013 premium soft top is easier we have
decided to go with it. Here the best deal we have so far thanks to a
member in the thread (dhdad) that gave me the dealer he just bought from

See attached picture for break down of pricing. I took off my name
and Dealership here in MA. If you want it just PM me .....
Here are the final numbers ....

2013 Wrangler Unlimited Sahara, automatic, dual top,
max tow, anti spin, white.

This is what the invoice reads:

MSRP Invoice
Vehicle 31,195 29,468
Automatic 1,125 1,001
Dual Top 2,085 1,856
Max Tow 390 347
Anti Spin 295 263
5 gallon of Gas 20...crazy that this is listed
Destination 925 925

Total: 36,015 33,880
Holdback 1,053.....we will give you 883 of it.

We will sell it for 32,997.
We will need a small portion of the holdback (170)
to help prepare the car for delivery.

Sale Price 32,997.00
Doc Fee 288.00

Congrats on the great price you are getting for your jeep. I am getting a bit confused though on the margins that dealers are getting for selling new vehicles. Your message above shows that your dealer will be making $170 on your Sahara. Lets assume your dealer will also hit their monthly/quarterly quota that Pat was talking about a few pages back and have another $650 in Chrysler quota bonus money coming for that vehicle as well. That is still only a profit of $820 for selling one new loaded jeep. Does this seem like a pretty thin margin to anybody else? These dealerships are often in multi-million dollar buildings and the salespeople/managers are known for making great money in this industry. So what am I missing here? I guess I just thought that dealerships were making much more money per vehicle sold. How are they affording these buildings and salaries at those kind of margins? Is the real dealership profit instead coming from the maintenance servicing of vehicles? Car warranties? Financing? Or perhaps the profit is coming from the trade-ins that we give them when we buy our jeeps? My career is in finance and I have found this whole thread rather fascinating honestly. I am just shocked that dealerships do not make thousands of dollars per new car sold.
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Old 06-10-2012, 02:32 PM   #793
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2013 Rubicon order

I'm thinking of ordering a 2013 Rubicon 2door 6spd true blue/saddle leather and half doors. Is it even possible to do this combination? Any thoughts on of it would look good? I'm trying to imagine how that combo would look. I definitely think it would be unique. Thanks for any input.
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Old 06-10-2012, 02:35 PM   #794
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I think the mantra is...the more vehicles out there, the more coming back for service.
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Old 06-10-2012, 02:40 PM   #795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepin Dave View Post
My interest in Jeeps is similar in a way to my interest in high performance sports cars – better enjoyment of the moment. Also have Ferrari Mondial t Cabriolet</SPAN> (rag top man).
When I was first thinking about a Ferrari, I chatted with a doctor in San Francisco. He said that Ferrari driving was worth whatever one had to pay for it.
His practice involved dealing with dying people. After many work days, he was not human. After a 20 minute drive home in the Ferrari, he was human again and could enjoy his wife and children.
He also said it was cheaper than Prozac. At $8,000 + for a Ferrari clutch job and discounted price of $800 for a Ferrari oil change, do not know it if is cheaper than Prozac. However, both Jeeps and Ferraris are great for getting better into the moment.
Think Jeeps are cheaper then Prozac – well maybe.
My reasons for buying Jeeps are different than most people.
Dave,
While you may be somewhat unique in that your daily driver is a Ferrari, you share a very common reason for driving with all of us. Enjoy, Enjoy...both of your fine vehicles.
Paul
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Old 06-10-2012, 04:05 PM   #796
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Originally Posted by cmiller

Congrats on the great price you are getting for your jeep. I am getting a bit confused though on the margins that dealers are getting for selling new vehicles. Your message above shows that your dealer will be making $170 on your Sahara. Lets assume your dealer will also hit their monthly/quarterly quota that Pat was talking about a few pages back and have another $650 in Chrysler quota bonus money coming for that vehicle as well. That is still only a profit of $820 for selling one new loaded jeep. Does this seem like a pretty thin margin to anybody else? These dealerships are often in multi-million dollar buildings and the salespeople/managers are known for making great money in this industry. So what am I missing here? I guess I just thought that dealerships were making much more money per vehicle sold. How are they affording these buildings and salaries at those kind of margins? Is the real dealership profit instead coming from the maintenance servicing of vehicles? Car warranties? Financing? Or perhaps the profit is coming from the trade-ins that we give them when we buy our jeeps? My career is in finance and I have found this whole thread rather fascinating honestly. I am just shocked that dealerships do not make thousands of dollars per new car sold.
Mostly service. Service pays the bills. These days with everything online the margins on warranties are much lower and the majority of people know what type of APR they qualify for. Used vehicles do well but again since the public can search the whole country the margins are lower as well. In the past a salesperson would average a $2000 or more profit on used vehicles but now online advertising has changed that as well. We as dealers know that people will fly and drive a long distance for the right priced pre owned vehicle. And since I know what will be asked next, a salespersons percentage is 25 to 30% of the profit.

At least you get it. Dealerships aren't making thousands per vehicle. And yes a successful salesperson can do very well but it takes time and you have to build a client base. The successful employees at a dealership put in long hours, some over 60 hours a week. I tell some of the young guys that want to come sell cars that it stinks. I tell them go to college, get a degree and go work a Monday thru Friday job.
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Old 06-10-2012, 05:07 PM   #797
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Originally Posted by robskully View Post
Damm great video .... I even D/L it for future use !
But ....
After watching your video link (thanks) it does seem wicked easy BUT
now I am concerned about anyone being able to steal the windows and anything inside.
Damm .... they just zipper off :-(
Think they could have put the zippers on the INSIDE instead !
Rob ....
It doesnt matter, thieves in the past just cut my plastic window instead of even being nice enough to use the zipper!

After owning a soft top, my vehicles (even non jeeps) are usually spotlessly clean on the inside, out of habit. Learned just not to store anything in there.
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Old 06-10-2012, 05:07 PM   #798
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I was having a hard time with grappling with the math of the top options, so I figured I would work it out and share in case anyone else was getting stumped.

First of all, from Pat's price of options on the Sport S (post #486 of this thread):
AEM Dual Top Group 1,856 2,085
MX3 Black 3-Piece Hard Top 708 795
MX5 Premium Black Sunrider Soft Top 356 400
From this, I generate the following formulas about the MSRP:

premium soft top = non-premium soft top + $400
black hard top = non-premium soft top + $795
dual top group = premium soft top + black hard top - non-premium soft top = $2,085

So, substituting formulas:
(non-premium soft top + $400) + (non-premium soft top + $795) - non-premium soft top = $2,085
non-premium soft top + $400 + $795 = $2,085
non-premium soft top = $2,085 - $400 - $795

Which means that the implied/effective as-installed-values at MSRP are:
non-premium soft top = $890
premium soft top = $890 + 400 = $1,290
black hard top = $890 + $795 = $1,685

The non-premium soft top MSRP isn't shown anywhere because it is included in the base cost of the JK. This matters because assuming that the 'cost of premium soft top option = $400' leads to the incorrect assumption (for me) that the VALUE of the dual group 'should be' $400+$795 = $1,195.

I don't know if the prices are true for Rubicon, Sahara, base Sport or 2Dr as I haven't worked the formulas as I am interested in the 4Dr Sport S for myself.
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Old 06-10-2012, 05:29 PM   #799
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sounds like the formula for who is on first ;-)
Rob .....
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Old 06-10-2012, 05:50 PM   #800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivoryring View Post
I was having a hard time with grappling with the math of the top options, so I figured I would work it out and share in case anyone else was getting stumped.

First of all, from Pat's price of options on the Sport S (post #486 of this thread):
AEM Dual Top Group 1,856 2,085
MX3 Black 3-Piece Hard Top 708 795
MX5 Premium Black Sunrider Soft Top 356 400
From this, I generate the following formulas about the MSRP:

premium soft top = non-premium soft top + $400
black hard top = non-premium soft top + $795
dual top group = premium soft top + black hard top - non-premium soft top = $2,085

So, substituting formulas:
(non-premium soft top + $400) + (non-premium soft top + $795) - non-premium soft top = $2,085
non-premium soft top + $400 + $795 = $2,085
non-premium soft top = $2,085 - $400 - $795

Which means that the implied/effective as-installed-values at MSRP are:
non-premium soft top = $890
premium soft top = $890 + 400 = $1,290
black hard top = $890 + $795 = $1,685

The non-premium soft top MSRP isn't shown anywhere because it is included in the base cost of the JK. This matters because assuming that the 'cost of premium soft top option = $400' leads to the incorrect assumption (for me) that the VALUE of the dual group 'should be' $400+$795 = $1,195.

I don't know if the prices are true for Rubicon, Sahara, base Sport or 2Dr as I haven't worked the formulas as I am interested in the 4Dr Sport S for myself.
I gotcha. Maybe a simpler way of summarizing it is that when you get a hard top, you're NOT getting the base soft top, so you're also not paying for it. So basically the $795 for a hard top is what's left of the true cost after subtracting the $890 for the base soft top. Same line of thinking for the dual top. Right?
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Old 06-10-2012, 06:21 PM   #801
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I would be forever grateful to anyone who can tell me how much the dual top option would be on top of a body color match top on an unlimited Rubicon.

Also, do I need to order deep tint with the color match top? Or does deep tint come standard on it?
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Old 06-10-2012, 06:39 PM   #802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pat@fieldsauto.com

Not that this really means anything, but all I have been told is the leather is different.
Not a real biggie just hoping it will be fairly durable.
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Old 06-10-2012, 06:54 PM   #803
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Originally Posted by Nvrmor View Post
Cant stand them myself. Those blue headlights people like so much make the mirrors unusable in the daytime. Nothing worse than driving down a highway in the rain and your mirrors turn black.
resurrecting this post, but I just wanted to say if the auto dim is anything like it was in my '01 Ram (Loaded SLT with the "pre-hemi" 5.9. Sweet truck, and I miss her every day!), there will be a button on the bottom which instantly turns off the dimming function, so this hopefully won't be too much of a problem...
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Old 06-10-2012, 07:19 PM   #804
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Originally Posted by CPSOX View Post
I would be forever grateful to anyone who can tell me how much the dual top option would be on top of a body color match top on an unlimited Rubicon.

Also, do I need to order deep tint with the color match top? Or does deep tint come standard on it?
Deep tint standard on Unlimited Rubicon.

Dual Top Group (AEM) = 2,085 MSRP
Body Color Hard Top (MX1) = 1,000 MSRP with AEM (1,795 w/o AEM)
Premium Soft Top (MX5) is included with AEM

Invoice will be about 89% of MSRP, IIRC.



Edit: Some information shows Premium Soft Top (MX5) as a separate item for Unlimited Rubicon, reducing AEM cost by $400 and charging $400 for MX5.

Here's a screen capture of part an invoice for a 2013 Unlimited Rubicon posted here on about June 6th showing the top groups:

Click image for larger version

Name:	2013 tops.jpg
Views:	119
Size:	21.6 KB
ID:	130757

Pat@fieldsjeep also shows AEM and MX5 as seperate orders.

My info shows them combined, but the price is exactly the same either way.
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Old 06-10-2012, 08:03 PM   #805
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Originally Posted by pat@fieldsauto.com View Post
Mostly service. Service pays the bills. These days with everything online the margins on warranties are much lower and the majority of people know what type of APR they qualify for. Used vehicles do well but again since the public can search the whole country the margins are lower as well. In the past a salesperson would average a $2000 or more profit on used vehicles but now online advertising has changed that as well. We as dealers know that people will fly and drive a long distance for the right priced pre owned vehicle. And since I know what will be asked next, a salespersons percentage is 25 to 30% of the profit.

At least you get it. Dealerships aren't making thousands per vehicle. And yes a successful salesperson can do very well but it takes time and you have to build a client base. The successful employees at a dealership put in long hours, some over 60 hours a week. I tell some of the young guys that want to come sell cars that it stinks. I tell them go to college, get a degree and go work a Monday thru Friday job.
My husband is a sales manager and works 8 am to 7 pm M-F and works almost every Saturday. He does well, but from the spouse side of things, I miss him not being home.
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Old 06-10-2012, 08:04 PM   #806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Up Hill Bill

Deep tint standard on Unlimited Rubicon.

Dual Top Group (AEM) = 2,085 MSRP
Body Color Hard Top (MX1) = 1,000 MSRP with AEM (1,795 w/o AEM)
Premium Soft Top (MX5) is included with AEM

Invoice will be about 89% of MSRP, IIRC.

Edit: Some information shows Premium Soft Top (MX5) as a separate item for Unlimited Rubicon, reducing AEM cost by $400 and charging $400 for MX5.

Here's a screen capture of part an invoice for a 2013 Unlimited Rubicon posted here on about June 6th showing the top groups:

Pat@fieldsjeep also shows AEM and MX5 as seperate orders.

My info shows them combined, but the price is exactly the same either way.
So in summary, just the color match top is $1795 MSRP and BOTH Dual Top and color match is $3085 for an increase of $1295?

The next logical question is whether or not one could buy a new soft top off Craigslist for under $1300.

Thanks Up Hill Bill!
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Old 06-10-2012, 08:14 PM   #807
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So in summary, just the color match top is $1795 MSRP and BOTH Dual Top and color match is $3085 for an increase of $1295?

The next logical question is whether or not one could buy a new soft top off Craigslist for under $1300.

Thanks Up Hill Bill!
It would have to be a *premium* soft top. If you look at Ivoryring's post above, $1290 is the MSRP of the premium soft top, so this all adds up pretty tightly.
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Old 06-10-2012, 08:47 PM   #808
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I've been following this for a number of days...I think it was answered, but here are a few questions that those in the know might be able to answer for me-

When will we offically see the Commando Green color?
When can we order a jeep in that color?
When will the 2013 Jeep website be up?
Is leather and heated seats and a 115volt plug available for a 2013 Sport S JKU?
Say I get the full doors and dual tops....is it possible to get the half doors as well?........If so how much? Better to go with Quadratec half doors painted to match?

I was looking at ordering a 12 JKU White Sahara and basically making it look like an Arctic (without the goofy Yeti image)...that is until I heard green was coming out...I will be happy with green with the black fenders and black top...but did like a few of the Sahara options (like leather, heated seats, 115 volt plug....etc...

Thanks in advance for the knowledge and help!
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Old 06-10-2012, 09:12 PM   #809
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I seem to recall the Commando color being open for order on Sept 4th and the web page changing when the 2013s hit the showrooms.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:01 PM   #810
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Originally Posted by CPSOX View Post
So in summary, just the color match top is $1795 MSRP and BOTH Dual Top and color match is $3085 for an increase of $1295?

The next logical question is whether or not one could buy a new soft top off Craigslist for under $1300.

Thanks Up Hill Bill!
Not sure on purchasing the soft top but I just bought a painted hardtop in white for $1700 and then sold my stock black hard top the next day for $1400. Paid $300 for a painted top...

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