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Old 06-22-2012, 09:50 PM   #1681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmg427 View Post
Like I said I wasnt even figuring the finance savings. 0% compared to even 2.5-3% on a 40k vehicle is at least a couple grand so now were actually looking at 5k+ difference.
The math makes sense. If I could find a 2012 Rubicon with the majority of options I wanted would buy right now. Just found it difficult to source... and finally opt'ed to order a 2013. Congrats on the new purchase!

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Old 06-22-2012, 10:26 PM   #1682
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Ok after months of searching I have located a dealer to order my 2013 from. Long story short the commando is not available yet however when it is this dealer agreed to employee pricing.....no haggle.....no fuss....just straight employee pricing with no control numbers or employee numbers needed.

Ok while waiting I phoned a second closer dealer and asked if they would match the other dealer and I would rather buy from the closer dealer. This salesman flat refused saying Chrysler would not give employee pricing without strict standards being met and would require an employee number.

He basically said the other dealer would not be able to sale me the vehicle at employee pricing and said he could not come close to matching it. Is it really that hard to get employee pricing?

Seems to me once the dealer pays for the vehicle Chrysler would have no input on what they sale it for. Hell if they want to give it away they could. Just curious if I should be concerned however the first dealer said to return in August and he would make it right for me. I believe the second dealer simply is not willing to match the price. They do have 33 of the 2012 models on their lot so maybe pushing the 2013 for now is not good for them who knows.

I do hope the first dealer is being honest as I am ready to order and buy my first JK.

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Old 06-22-2012, 10:53 PM   #1683
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Right, but what happens in the future when you want to resell? How much of that $3k savings will be eaten up when trying to sell a '12 instead of a '13? Either way, good for you on the new ride.
seriously. youd be willing to give up 3000 dollars and 3-4 months of enjoyment for cup holder lighting?

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Originally Posted by mcdull View Post
Depending on how long you're going to keep it. Obviously it's not a matter if you're not going to sell or trade and more years down the road, it will be the mileage not the years of the car that affect the value and I doubt you will see a differece of $3K after 10 years for a 12 or 13 with the same mileage.
agreed its a jeep. they hold resale better than any else.
i take delevery of my 12 next week and dont have to wait 4 months. am loaded with options i didnt want and im paying below dealer cost and took over book for my trade and end up less money out of pocket than if i had ordered the rubicon the way i was going to do with no options at all.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:53 PM   #1684
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Ok after months of searching I have located a dealer to order my 2013 from. Long story short the commando is not available yet however when it is this dealer agreed to employee pricing.....no haggle.....no fuss....just straight employee pricing with no control numbers or employee numbers needed.

Ok while waiting I phoned a second closer dealer and asked if they would match the other dealer and I would rather buy from the closer dealer. This salesman flat refused saying Chrysler would not give employee pricing without strict standards being met and would require an employee number.

He basically said the other dealer would not be able to sale me the vehicle at employee pricing and said he could not come close to matching it. Is it really that hard to get employee pricing?

Seems to me once the dealer pays for the vehicle Chrysler would have no input on what they sale it for. Hell if they want to give it away they could. Just curious if I should be concerned however the first dealer said to return in August and he would make it right for me. I believe the second dealer simply is not willing to match the price. They do have 33 of the 2012 models on their lot so maybe pushing the 2013 for now is not good for them who knows.

I do hope the first dealer is being honest as I am ready to order and buy my first JK.

Wanna take a weekend trip to Louisiana? I will get you a good price and they will order what you want???? You should be able to ask for a manager and get what you want.

MSG me if you want to order at a decent price and can travel to the New Orleans area
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:55 PM   #1685
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if you want i can set you up with my guy here in macon ga. youll probably deal with one of the head honchos who is also a leader of our jeep club.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:58 PM   #1686
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I swear I’m about this close to just giving up on the new Jeep and buying another 6 bicycles, at least with those I know what’s what. I just had a super frustrating interaction with a dealer. After being assured twice via email that they’d honor the -1% off invoice for Tread Lightly they backed out when they realized the only 2012 they could get had options I wasn’t super interested in and that I’d want a better deal if I had to pay for those. Fair enough.

We then talked about a 2013 with the exact options I want (Max tow and dual top group, nothing else that would increase the cost), suddenly they wouldn’t give the -1% but only what they called “invoice”. I pointed out the with the Tread Lightly deal they’d get 2% back and they’d actually make more. They then agreed but I had to leave before we could finalize an order.

My question is where I can get an accurate “invoice” price for a 2013 equipped the way I want (I really wish invoice in car land meant what the rest of the world means when they say invoice). It seems like Kelly Blue Book and Edmunds both only list 2012 prices and the Jeep website seems to only give MSRP. Frankly I don’t really believe what the dealer showed me, I can print a piece of paper with a number on it and call it invoice too. So this is what I have so far for prices for a JKU with Max Tow and dual top:

Jeep website: $36,640 (that’s MSRP with destination according to the site, 2013)
Local dealer: $36, 153 (the MSRP they showed me was ~$38,000, 2013)
KBB: $34,132 (this is for a 2012)
Edmunds: $34,437 (this is a 2012)

I’ve read as much of this thread as I can and I can’t find an answer on where to find an invoice other than the Jeep website, Edmunds, and KBB. You can see by the huge discrepancies above why I want to track this down. I’m not opposed to the dealer making a fair profit but I don’t trust them after today. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:00 PM   #1687
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contact the affiliate program. the dealership will get spanked a little but still dont buy from them.

where are you located?
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:02 PM   #1688
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I'm in Las Vegas.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:10 PM   #1689
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Originally Posted by lee indy

seriously. youd be willing to give up 3000 dollars and 3-4 months of enjoyment for cup holder lighting?
You've got to be kidding. Just yesterday you were all excited about your 2013 dozer order and now you're going to bad mouth those who are waiting?

Yeah, it's worth every penny for me to get everything I want on the newest model. Patience is a virtue.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:37 PM   #1690
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Originally Posted by Grimace29
I'm in Las Vegas.
Grimace, check carmax in Vegas... As of last week they had a 12' 2 dr black call of duty edition for 36k with < 1 thousand miles. I know you want 4 dr but it's a good price considering the 3k$ bumpers
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:49 PM   #1691
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Originally Posted by CPSOX

You've got to be kidding. Just yesterday you were all excited about your 2013 dozer order and now you're going to bad mouth those who are waiting?

Yeah, it's worth every penny for me to get everything I want on the newest model. Patience is a virtue.
I think you're missing the.point and I can tell you're hot tempered so ill try to be plain and simple. I was not bad mouthing you. I was excited about a 13 but was offered a 12 for a much much better deal. were talking thousands of dollars in extras for a lower price. were talking below dealer cost and holdback. so now I have a vechile now that's worth more for less. and I have it now. why would you not want that? and seriously there is nothing on the 13 that's worth waiting for and paying more for. I got a better deal on a 12. ymmv
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:19 AM   #1692
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Quick question that may have been answered but I have read until I am blue in the face. Is the auto dimming rear view mirror standard or optional on the Rubicon?
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:37 AM   #1693
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keschete and lee indy thank you for the offers and I seriously may take you up on one of them. I have a limited few dealers here and am slowly growing very tired of them all.

I am going to visit the first dealer tomorrow and verify the employee price is still on the table and see if they will give me a print out of the price. I figured I could use a practice order for a 2013 equipped as I want and simply change the paint color when available.

There are so many places in nearby Georgia I may have to visit there again. Thanks again for the offers guys and I will keep you posted.
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Old 06-23-2012, 05:48 AM   #1694
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Originally Posted by Grimace29 View Post
[SIZE=3]

My question is where I can get an accurate “invoice” price for a 2013 equipped the way I want (I really wish invoice in car land meant what the rest of the world means when they say invoice).
There is an excel sheet in this thread that used the information provided by Pat and Milous to allow you to build your Jeep and receive the MSRP and Invoice pricing.

Think this is the final version... https://docs.google.com/?tab=mo&auth...WExQXhGc290U3c
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Old 06-23-2012, 08:07 AM   #1695
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were talking thousands of dollars in extras for a lower price. were talking below dealer cost and holdback.
lee - this isn't directed at you, because I don't know all the details about your situation (trade in, financing, etc) - if you are happy with the deal you got, then congratulations! Seeing what I quoted above reminds me of something I've always wondered about - the idea that you can buy a Jeep for less than it really cost the dealer.

There is no doubt in my mind that different buyers get different prices for the exact same configuration. This implies that no matter what I do, it is highly likely that someone else somewhere will have paid less for the same configuration. I don't lose sleep over this fact.

What is the circumstance when a dealer would really be willing to sell any vehicle at a loss? As buyers, if we don't like what one dealer is offering we can always walk away and go somewhere else. Equally, if a dealer is genuinely going to lose money on a deal, why wouldn't they say "I can always wait for another [less careful/picky/informed] buyer [with dealer trades this means any buyer nearby even if they don't walk into my own shop]"?

I have always felt, both in personal finances and business matters, that I need to see where the other party is making their profit. If it doesn't look like they are, then it's a flag to me that there is something deceptive going on. Of course this isn't foolproof - nothing prevents deception adding hidden profit to what is clearly seen profit.

The closer we get to September (when the PR push for 2013 JK happens, which is the first time most of the public will even know anything about the 2013s), the less incentive any given buyer has to get a 2012 at 'Tread Lightly price' - buyers of 2012s will want a better and better discount the closer they are to being able to get a 2013 instead. Right now, it's the end of June - I see 2 solid months of dealers playing the pitch of 'better buy it now, we aren't getting any more in for months, and when THIS one you like is gone, who knows when you will be able to find another you like'.

Once 2013 JKs are on the lots, then it would seem to me that dealers might be willing to take a loss on 2012s because their floor plan charges are just racking up and it's going to be harder and harder to recover them.

I had another thought - 2013s represent a price increase (for argument, lets say $1000 increase) over 2012s. What prevents a dealer pitching the remaining 2012s as "if you buy this, you will save $2000 over the MSRP sticker of 2013 model next to it". You might be well informed enough to see through that - are you sure nobody at all could be fooled with that (accurate but misleading) pitch?
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Old 06-23-2012, 08:42 AM   #1696
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I think you're missing the.point and I can tell you're hot tempered so ill try to be plain and simple. I was not bad mouthing you. I was excited about a 13 but was offered a 12 for a much much better deal. were talking thousands of dollars in extras for a lower price. were talking below dealer cost and holdback. so now I have a vechile now that's worth more for less. and I have it now. why would you not want that? and seriously there is nothing on the 13 that's worth waiting for and paying more for. I got a better deal on a 12. ymmv
No need to dumb it down for me, I can handle the details just fine. I just think its funny that you've come full circle and now can't imagine how anyone would want to wait/pay more for a '13 over a '12 when just hours ago you had a '13 order. It shouldn't be a revelation that you'll be able to get a deal on a '12....and good for you, hope you enjoy your new Jeep.

There are things on a '13 that are worth paying for. The JKUR I want doesn't exist on lots today. To me, picking a random vehicle off the lot and paying for features I don't want and/or missing ones that I do is an equal waste of money. Every car I've ever bought has been factory ordered, I'm used to waiting months. But when it comes, it's exactly what I wanted....the few months of waiting is worth the many years of enjoyment. This time around, I have a car that is a scream in the summer and I'm in no rush to get rid of it.

I'm happy you've found your Jeep. But don't act surprised when those in the "2013 info thread" don't exactly leech onto your new premise that buying a 2012 is the only way to go.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:03 AM   #1697
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Originally Posted by lee indy
contact the affiliate program. the dealership will get spanked a little but still dont buy from them.

where are you located?
Dealership won't get into any trouble. It's their choice whether or not to honor the program.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:04 AM   #1698
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I am not sure which 2012 you got Lee, but congratulations on the new purchase. I have been trying to decide which model and year I want to purchase from as well. Some days I think I would be satisfied in a Sport, other days I am ready to pull the trigger on a decked out Rubicon. I have also noticed that dealers are really wanting to move the Altitude Sahara's and the COD3 Rubicon's aggressively now. I am seeing discounts of around 2-4k for the Altitudes and up to 5k for the COD's now. I am a bit surprised to see the Altitudes being discounted so aggressively already, but I think dealers are tired of seeing the unsold COD's on their lots. Some of them have sat there for many months now. Has anybody else noticed that there is a ton of silver unlimited's on the lot as well? What is the deal with all the silver? I almost never see a Dozer or Crush, but dealers have a half dozen silvers in all different model types. I am starting to see the dealers get more aggressive in marking down silver to get it moving as well.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:07 AM   #1699
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Originally Posted by CPSOX View Post
No need to dumb it down for me, I can handle the details just fine. I just think its funny that you've come full circle and now can't imagine how anyone would want to wait/pay more for a '13 over a '12 when just hours ago you had a '13 order. It shouldn't be a revelation that you'll be able to get a deal on a '12....and good for you, hope you enjoy your new Jeep.

There are things on a '13 that are worth paying for. The JKUR I want doesn't exist on lots today. To me, picking a random vehicle off the lot and paying for features I don't want and/or missing ones that I do is an equal waste of money. Every car I've ever bought has been factory ordered, I'm used to waiting months. But when it comes, it's exactly what I wanted....the few months of waiting is worth the many years of enjoyment. This time around, I have a car that is a scream in the summer and I'm in no rush to get rid of it.

I'm happy you've found your Jeep. But don't act surprised when those in the "2013 info thread" don't exactly leech onto your new premise that buying a 2012 is the only way to go.
Why a 2013 ---- I ordered another 2 dr Ruby yesterday to upgrade to a 2013 from my 2007---the best reason to wait vs a 2012 and why I did is many 2012's has a serious ticking sound comming from the lifters on the right head on the engine due to overheating believed to be caused by exhaust flow ---Note this is a change on the 2013's . Many 2012 Grand Cherokees had the same problem------last check there were over 600 heads back ordered---much to be said on this topic on the jeep websites.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:29 AM   #1700
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Send quotes of what you want to Dealers !
I listed MSRP and Invoice prices with the shipping included.
Then ask for their LOWEST price.
Then haggle from there.
Put my order down today at 1pm and got my VON
Now for the wait ...
Hold on a second ...
Does that mean I am I have to leave this thread
and post only in the 2013 Waiting Room thread
Rob ....
Congrats Rob...hope you don't have to wait to long. I'm currently in a holding pattern until I can get more info on commando! Still need to check out acton
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:43 AM   #1701
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2013 Alliance Orders---Affect tradein Value?

Pat or other Awsome People;
Just ordered my 2013 2 dr Rubi - Black with lots of stuff yesterday....at 1% below Invoice---After three phone calls to Chrysler Alliance and the confusion with why Tread Lightly doesn't yet specifically state that they cover the 2013's the Dealer approved and placed the order.

Now the hard part---the Trade-in.
Accordingly to the Kelly Blue Book my trade-in value on my 2007 2 dr Ruby 46000mi in excellent shape was listed at $21,026. After they appraised my Ruby and agreed it was in excellent shape they offered me $15,500-----Kelly Resale is $23,726; After some haggling they raised to number to $17,000.

Now is it true dealers don't use the Kelly Blue book or any of the other public published material, but use an Auction book---can't remember the name which they showed me where my 2007 Rubi to be worth between $15,000 to $16,000. What a disconnect........Sure I could sell it myself for $20,000 but I just don't want the hassle........so rationalizing that if I sold the Rubi myself I would have to pay the full MA Sales Tax of 6.25% vs the difference on the trade-in, I would benefit another $1200 ...I decided to do-it and not have to worry about any future private sale issues. Sitll, It still doesn't feel right. The advocated they needed at least $2500 to cover the resale of a trade-in----but a vehicle in Excellent Condition??

The dealers claim was using the Alliance Program, the holdback was $1052 and they were giving me $337, there really wasn't much to work on the Trade-in. Where as with MSRP pricing there was approx $2200 to negoiate which is included in the figures in the Kelly Blue Book.

Does this all sound right....and if so "Let the Buyer Beware"
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:56 AM   #1702
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Two Tone dash and Lether Trim Seats??

I placed an order yesterday for a 2 DR Rubi-Black and wanted the Black/Dark Saddle leather trim seats so that I would also get the Dark Saddle interior trim, But the Leather trim option was not available so i had to settle for the A7--XV Cloth with dark saddle option........Would anyone know it this gives me the dark saddle inter trim on the dash and console???

Also any word on when the leather trim option may be availble? Thank You

This is an Awsome Site
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:58 AM   #1703
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thanks Huff,
I too was ready to buy a 2012 but to no avail.
Nearest one that was even close to what I wanted was an
EIGHT hour drive away .... no thanks !
For some friggin reason here in New England the Dealers decided not to order Limited Slip on their White Unlimited's. The few I found had thousands more of options I had no interest in.
I had a buget of $32,000 and not a penny more. So I settled
for a 2013 with the addition of a Dual Top added to what I want and I have time to add the extra money to my budget
to pay for it.
Also I was able to order it at a Dealer 17 miles from my
home. Resale does not mean crap because I keep my
vehicles until they are worthless.
My present DD is 3/4 ton 4x4 that is 11 years old this Fall
with 133,000 miles.
Am I Missing the Summer with tops down ?
Hell no ....
There are FOUR harley's in the Garage and one is a Trike !
There will be MANY more Summer's (God willing) to enjoy
my Dual Top option :-)
Rob .....
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:58 AM   #1704
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Grimace, check carmax in Vegas... As of last week they had a 12' 2 dr black call of duty edition for 36k with < 1 thousand miles. I know you want 4 dr but it's a good price considering the 3k$ bumpers

COD bumpers are not quite full AEV equipment. They look good, but lack a few things...
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:13 AM   #1705
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Forgot to add ....
The ONLY thing I will miss this Summer is paying less for GAS
every week driving to work.
My DD gets 11mpg on a good day and doing 100 miles round
trip to work adds up fast.
Rob ....
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:52 AM   #1706
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just straight employee pricing with no control numbers or employee numbers needed.



I do hope the first dealer is being honest as I am ready to order and buy my first JK.
The dealers can sell the vehicle for basically no profit if they wish. As an employee of a dealer I am getting invoice minus a significant portion of the holdback. Chrysler corp gives the dealer a certain amount money to cover rebates to employees.

The dealer can choose to give you the same deal as I am getting, but unless you are a family member of the dealer employees then they don't get the kickback to cover it by Chrysler.....

That said, there are many creative things that go on in a dealership. Having a sold order to you means they don't have to finance your vehicle on their floor plan and they have a sold vehicle to count towards their numbers. If they meet their quota for the month the dealer gets money from Chrysler.

So no BS on your end, the dealer is happy and makes some money and you are happy you got a great deal.....don't ask too many questions.....

Just be happy!!!
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:02 AM   #1707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivoryring

lee - this isn't directed at you, because I don't know all the details about your situation (trade in, financing, etc) - if you are happy with the deal you got, then congratulations! Seeing what I quoted above reminds me of something I've always wondered about - the idea that you can buy a Jeep for less than it really cost the dealer.

There is no doubt in my mind that different buyers get different prices for the exact same configuration. This implies that no matter what I do, it is highly likely that someone else somewhere will have paid less for the same configuration. I don't lose sleep over this fact.

What is the circumstance when a dealer would really be willing to sell any vehicle at a loss? As buyers, if we don't like what one dealer is offering we can always walk away and go somewhere else. Equally, if a dealer is genuinely going to lose money on a deal, why wouldn't they say "I can always wait for another [less careful/picky/informed] buyer [with dealer trades this means any buyer nearby even if they don't walk into my own shop]"?

I have always felt, both in personal finances and business matters, that I need to see where the other party is making their profit. If it doesn't look like they are, then it's a flag to me that there is something deceptive going on. Of course this isn't foolproof - nothing prevents deception adding hidden profit to what is clearly seen profit.

The closer we get to September (when the PR push for 2013 JK happens, which is the first time most of the public will even know anything about the 2013s), the less incentive any given buyer has to get a 2012 at 'Tread Lightly price' - buyers of 2012s will want a better and better discount the closer they are to being able to get a 2013 instead. Right now, it's the end of June - I see 2 solid months of dealers playing the pitch of 'better buy it now, we aren't getting any more in for months, and when THIS one you like is gone, who knows when you will be able to find another you like'.

Once 2013 JKs are on the lots, then it would seem to me that dealers might be willing to take a loss on 2012s because their floor plan charges are just racking up and it's going to be harder and harder to recover them.

I had another thought - 2013s represent a price increase (for argument, lets say $1000 increase) over 2012s. What prevents a dealer pitching the remaining 2012s as "if you buy this, you will save $2000 over the MSRP sticker of 2013 model next to it". You might be well informed enough to see through that - are you sure nobody at all could be fooled with that (accurate but misleading) pitch?
why would they sell below there cost? very simple allocation and inventory. where I'm at very very few people want Rubicons. no where to use them near by. end of the month. unit that is costing them a lot in flooring fees. maybe close to a quota that will get them a much larger kick back from Chrysler. they ability to get the financing which means kick back from bank. and and and. am I saying they lost money. no break even probably. but now there numbers are better across the board. and they will probably make a profit on my barely abused trade in. when I was a sales manager at harley we would constantly sell bikes well under invoice for all the reasons I listed above. if we moved x number of units we would get double hold back and free freight on some more units coming in. and for ever time I sold my quota I could get extra allocations. did we make a killing in the sales side. never. service and finance makes the money in a dealership
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:07 AM   #1708
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Some days I think I would be satisfied in a Sport, other days I am ready to pull the trigger on a decked out Rubicon.
I was in the same boat a month or two ago going back and forth. I finally decided that if I am going to get a brand new vehicle I want to keep it for a good while, even if the Jeep doesn't stay my DD. That being said, in 2010 I bought a 2008 2wd Silverado. It was sitting on the lot right next to essentially the exact same truck in 4wd, only 4,000 less. I decided at the time to save some money. I am certain that if I would have spent the extra 4,000 at the time I probably would not have decided to sell it and buy a new vehicle (moving from eastern NC to CO, 4wd will be nice in the snow). That being said, I decided since I had the money I should get what I REALLY want, and not sacrifice the money to just get a quick fix. If you REALLY want a Rubi and can afford it don't settle! You may regret it down the road. I also rationalized that if I got a Sport I'd want a lift wheels and tires ASAP. I told myself I could wait a while if I got the Rubi I think I was just lying to myself.

Anyways, that's just my two cents.
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:18 AM   #1709
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Originally Posted by lee indy

I was excited about a 13 but was offered a 12 for a much much better deal. were talking thousands of dollars in extras for a lower price. were talking below dealer cost and holdback. so now I have a vechile now that's worth more for less. and I have it now. why would you not want that?
It is all a matter of opinion. It would have to be a ridiculous deal for me to accept a 2012 right now. Why? I don't like the colors. I am interested in a premium top. I am not interested in settling on options that I may or may not want. My finances are not quite where I plan them to be for buying a new vehicle.

People wait for different reasons. I'm glad that you found a great deal, but there is nothing wrong on waiting a few extra months to get exactly what I want in a vehicle I plan to have for a very long time.
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:46 AM   #1710
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Originally Posted by KittyPrawn View Post
There is an excel sheet in this thread that used the information provided by Pat and Milous to allow you to build your Jeep and receive the MSRP and Invoice pricing.

Think this is the final version... https://docs.google.com/?tab=mo&auth...WExQXhGc290U3c

How do you download the file? I'm trying on my phone, but google docs give me the "No items matched your selections." error.

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