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Old 09-22-2013, 12:13 AM   #6811
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Pat i will Pm you, but can you tell me max tow invoice price? is it $795 msrp and is lsd no longer 263 invoice? Thanks!!
I thought LSD stayed the same. I think max tow was $680 or close to that. I'm not at home and I can't pull the info on my phone.

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Old 09-22-2013, 06:23 AM   #6812
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^ not sure when you will be in IL. If it's before the middle of 2014 you can swing in and see our newest charity build we just started. Going to go crazy on a Jeep for the Wounded Warrior Project.
Sounds great. At this point all I know is I will have new orders by then, not sure where though. Keep up the great work.

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Old 09-22-2013, 08:16 AM   #6813
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^ not sure when you will be in IL. If it's before the middle of 2014 you can swing in and see our newest charity build we just started. Going to go crazy on a Jeep for the Wounded Warrior Project.
Pat, thank you and the Dealership for supporting the Wounded Warrior project!
For those who bought the Freedom Edition Wrangler a big thank you as well!
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:01 PM   #6814
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Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere, but, is the destination fee considered part of invoice cost, when applying the Affiliates Rewards discount?
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:35 PM   #6815
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Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere, but, is the destination fee considered part of invoice cost, when applying the Affiliates Rewards discount?
Yes. Invoice including destination less the AR discount.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:44 PM   #6816
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Yes. Invoice including destination less the AR discount.
Thank you MUCH, Pat!!!
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Old 09-22-2013, 02:52 PM   #6817
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Noob here. I have learned alot reading this thread, Thanks guys (and gals)! MUCH more than my local dealer, unfortunately. I went in yesterday to look for a trade in for my 07 Tundra limited dbl cab. Won't be going back there! My truck is in very clean condition, and well taken care of. I am a little OCD when it comes to my vehicles LOL!!! Anyway, they told me that ANY trade they do, they price them at Average! I said look, there is only 53000 miles on it and I have done research on it, and the Jeep (which by the way was stickered at 37,696. So, lets be fair.... Long story short, the salesman was very polite and helpful, the salesmanager.....not so much. Salesman told me there was 2200 in markup on the jeep and his manager came in rudely and said there is no mark up and he only wanted to give me 15000 for my truck! I said ok, than how much if I buy the jeep outright? He said 37,696, there is no markup on Wranglers! I said thanks, but no thanks and left. Called the salesman and told him I was a little upset at how his boss acted and didn't get to thank you for all the time and help you gave me, he told me he was embarrassed by his boss and told me again that there is markup on the wranglers sticker that he was shocked at how the manager acted. He apologized on the part of his boss. He wanted the deal but his boss could care less. Hope this is just a one time deal I run into. I can't believe that a dealership that has been open less than a year, would treat customers this way!!!
I don't think I was rude in any way, but I was kind of offended about the price they wanted to give me for my truck and wouldn't budge off sticker! I even asked "ok then how about clean retail for my truck and retail for the jeep?" Which would have been 10000 difference. According to Kelly Blue Book. Which he said is not correct?
Was I wrong for using kelly and showing him their numbers?
Please let me know if I should have approached this differently....or posted this in the wrong area!
Craig
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Old 09-22-2013, 03:10 PM   #6818
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Noob here. I have learned alot reading this thread, Thanks guys (and gals)! MUCH more than my local dealer, unfortunately. I went in yesterday to look for a trade in for my 07 Tundra limited dbl cab. Won't be going back there! My truck is in very clean condition, and well taken care of. I am a little OCD when it comes to my vehicles LOL!!! Anyway, they told me that ANY trade they do, they price them at Average! I said look, there is only 53000 miles on it and I have done research on it, and the Jeep (which by the way was stickered at 37,696. So, lets be fair.... Long story short, the salesman was very polite and helpful, the salesmanager.....not so much. Salesman told me there was 2200 in markup on the jeep and his manager came in rudely and said there is no mark up and he only wanted to give me 15000 for my truck! I said ok, than how much if I buy the jeep outright? He said 37,696, there is no markup on Wranglers! I said thanks, but no thanks and left. Called the salesman and told him I was a little upset at how his boss acted and didn't get to thank you for all the time and help you gave me, he told me he was embarrassed by his boss and told me again that there is markup on the wranglers sticker that he was shocked at how the manager acted. He apologized on the part of his boss. He wanted the deal but his boss could care less. Hope this is just a one time deal I run into. I can't believe that a dealership that has been open less than a year, would treat customers this way!!! I don't think I was rude in any way, but I was kind of offended about the price they wanted to give me for my truck and wouldn't budge off sticker! I even asked "ok then how about clean retail for my truck and retail for the jeep?" Which would have been 10000 difference. According to Kelly Blue Book. Which he said is not correct? Was I wrong for using kelly and showing him their numbers? Please let me know if I should have approached this differently....or posted this in the wrong area! Craig
my advice? if you really want a wrangler, find a different dealer. negotiate the price from invoice first. once you're happy with that, THEN negotiate trade or just sell outright. if you can't find what you want, order it. too many PITA dealers out there, just find one you can work with.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:24 PM   #6819
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Never discuss trade until you have a negotiated price. Walk. Period.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:25 PM   #6820
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Oh yea, tell the salesman to have the manager call you when he is ready to sell.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:51 PM   #6821
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Never discuss trade until you have a negotiated price. Walk. Period.
While many do this it's an ineffective tactic. Reason being, when you trade in a vehicle, you give the dealer two ends of the "rape" rope. If you get a smoking deal on the new ride before you tell them about your trade, they will rape you on the trade. Dealers have to make money. There is only so much they can do when there is a trade involved. The key is to find a happy medium. For me, I got 30K on my 2012 Sahara with 22K on the clock, and 1% under (TL discount) for the new ride. I went to three dealers, and no one would do better than that. If you squeeze the dealer for 2 more percent on the new rig, they will smoke you for that 2% when you tell them about your trade.

Interesting story about my 2014 purchase...went to dealer #1, talked about trading my 12 for my 14...offered 28K and 1% below invoice. After some minor negotiating, offered 29K. Since I was waiting for ampd at the time, I thanked them for their time and left.

Went to dealer #2 right after...told them dealer #1 (didn't reveal the name of the dealer) offered 30K and 2% below. Dealer said he would honor the 30K but can only do 1% below.

Went to dealer #3 (the one I bought my 2012 from) told them about the 30K and 2%....dealer offered to match the 30K but only 1% below. I didn't want to go to dealer #3 because their finance manager made me hunt him down all the time, and their service department is nasty looking (old and falling apart building)...I get my rig serviced when I need something at dealer #2 because they are clean and have an appointment system online. So, after all that, I decided to go to dealer #2. Dealer was a young kid that was eager to sell, was nice, and was really happy that Im going with him. The first time I spoke to them I spoke to "a" manager about the situation, and he is the one who said he was going to do 30K and 1% below. Called dealer #2 to make sure the deal is still good (after I saw amped and decided it wasn't for me) and he tells me the manager needs to speak to me since he wasn't in on the deal. I found it weird, since he was sitting at the table talking to me, but apparently it was another manager.

Arrive at the dealer, hand shakes all around, and I tell them Im ready to buy. Dealer and the manager I already spoke to before sit with me, but the manager that wanted to talk to me is nowhere to be found. Manager sitting with me asks if Im ready to buy, I say lets do it. Gets up, walks 10 feet away to speak with big wig manager. Comes back, and tells me "we can't guarantee your trade value because you are factory ordering which can take 3 months and your current jeep might not be worth 30K." I told him it takes 6-8 weeks (ordering Sept. 6th) and Im only putting on a few hundred miles at best (<300) during that time, so he is full of it (jeeps get more expensive the closer it is to winter)....gets up, walks 10 feet back to the big wig, comes back, and tells me no go. I look at the dealer (who at this point is annoyed since his manager just cost him a sale) then the manager thats sitting with me and say "you guys understand that Im ready to buy right now right?" They respond with a big yes. Then I say "so you are telling me that he is going to let me walk out of this door right now? A customer ready to buy he's just gonna let me walk?" Manager looks at me and says "yup." I get up, shake their hands, tell them thanks for their time, tell the dealer sorry he blew your deal, and left. Drove to dealer #3, and made my order.
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:13 PM   #6822
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WOW!!
I may not be buying a Jeep after all if that is what I have to look forward too!
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:16 PM   #6823
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May have a better chance at a deal, if I wait till Chrysler/Jeep goes up for sale again!
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:20 PM   #6824
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Noob here. I have learned alot reading this thread, Thanks guys (and gals)! MUCH more than my local dealer, unfortunately. I went in yesterday to look for a trade in for my 07 Tundra limited dbl cab. Won't be going back there! My truck is in very clean condition, and well taken care of. I am a little OCD when it comes to my vehicles LOL!!! Anyway, they told me that ANY trade they do, they price them at Average! I said look, there is only 53000 miles on it and I have done research on it, and the Jeep (which by the way was stickered at 37,696. So, lets be fair.... Long story short, the salesman was very polite and helpful, the salesmanager.....not so much. Salesman told me there was 2200 in markup on the jeep and his manager came in rudely and said there is no mark up and he only wanted to give me 15000 for my truck! I said ok, than how much if I buy the jeep outright? He said 37,696, there is no markup on Wranglers! I said thanks, but no thanks and left. Called the salesman and told him I was a little upset at how his boss acted and didn't get to thank you for all the time and help you gave me, he told me he was embarrassed by his boss and told me again that there is markup on the wranglers sticker that he was shocked at how the manager acted. He apologized on the part of his boss. He wanted the deal but his boss could care less. Hope this is just a one time deal I run into. I can't believe that a dealership that has been open less than a year, would treat customers this way!!!
I don't think I was rude in any way, but I was kind of offended about the price they wanted to give me for my truck and wouldn't budge off sticker! I even asked "ok then how about clean retail for my truck and retail for the jeep?" Which would have been 10000 difference. According to Kelly Blue Book. Which he said is not correct?
Was I wrong for using kelly and showing him their numbers?
Please let me know if I should have approached this differently....or posted this in the wrong area!
Craig
Don't feel bad nor frustrated. i dealt with the same type of salesmen and mangers 4 months ago, when i first decided that i wanted to get a wrangler. besides the usual salesman tactics and lines i heard. from " This is a one of a kind vehicle" and the "thats a steal if you can you get it for that price go get it". when you hear talk like that plus as you said the usual not wanting to budge on pricing. its a complete turnoff... keep looking around someone is going to want to make a deal. do your research first before going again though
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:29 PM   #6825
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WOW!!
I may not be buying a Jeep after all if that is what I have to look forward too!
Look for people on this forum who have purchased in your area or go see Pat in Chicago, there are dealerships out there that are honest, you just have to spend some time looking for them.
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:36 PM   #6826
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Anyone know where I can see an Amp'd in person?
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:18 AM   #6827
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look for people on this forum who have purchased in your area or go see pat in chicago, there are dealerships out there that are honest, you just have to spend some time looking for them.
+1 If you're near Pat I'd go see him.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:51 AM   #6828
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Look for people on this forum who have purchased in your area or go see Pat in Chicago, there are dealerships out there that are honest, you just have to spend some time looking for them.
Thanks. I wanted to keep my money local, but that's not looking good at this point. I am heading to Chicago at Christmas time. If nothing else happens first, then I will visit Pat, andcome home with a new copperhead Jeep! Not a better gift out there!
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:50 AM   #6829
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Wacky, try not to get frustrated, you have been given great advice. I just ordered my second jeep from Pat (wife took the first one and does not like to share, who knew?) I tried to keep my money local but could not find a comfortable deal or one optioned with the 3.73 and LSD that I requested. I also turned to Panthermark multiple times last year for some solid advice. I do not think you can find a more HONEST STRAIGHTFORWARD DEALER than Pat as he lays it out on the table. I do not think he would be very good at POKER. Pat is 350 miles from me but it took me 5 minutes to order my jeep no stress. Hope you get yourself a nice Christmas Present!
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:09 AM   #6830
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Guys, If I order an X (which comes with Power Conv. and Connectivity packages) but do NOT upgrade my radio, will I have:

USB Input?
Bluetooth to stream contents (music) off my iPod?

I believe so but am looking for confirmation/clarification. Thx.
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:20 AM   #6831
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WOW!!
I may not be buying a Jeep after all if that is what I have to look forward too!
Its not a Jeep thing, it's a car dealer thing. There are very few "Pat's" in the dealership world. Just be armed with knowledge and they wont be able to take advantage of you.
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:25 AM   #6832
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Guys, If I order an X (which comes with Power Conv. and Connectivity packages) but do NOT upgrade my radio, will I have:

USB Input?
Bluetooth to stream contents (music) off my iPod?

I believe so but am looking for confirmation/clarification. Thx.
yes
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:26 AM   #6833
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Its not a Jeep thing, it's a car dealer thing. There are very few "Pat's" in the dealership world. Just be armed with knowledge and they wont be able to take advantage of you.
Great advice!
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:37 AM   #6834
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Great advice!
This thread has everything a person needs to get the best possible deal on a Jeep. Pat basically laid out how they (dealers) function and price, and just with that info alone you can be set. When I walked into the dealerships, the first words out of my mouth are "Hi, look, I don't want to waste your time, so please dont waste mine. I know exactly what you can and can't do, so lets not do the back and forth thing for the next 2 hours. Just be honest with me and this will be the easiest sale of your life. Im not one of those customers that wants a fully loaded Rubicon for the price of a base sport."

When they hear that, they play ball.
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:37 AM   #6835
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Its not a Jeep thing, it's a car dealer thing. There are very few "Pat's" in the dealership world. Just be armed with knowledge and they wont be able to take advantage of you.

I agree. Especially when you are dealing with trade ins. Even though I hate selling a car privately, it's really the only way to get what you think your vehicle is worth. I've never encountered a dealer for any vehicle that offered a fair trade in value. As NFR...NYC said they will make their money on one end or another.
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:48 AM   #6836
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Guys, If I order an X (which comes with Power Conv. and Connectivity packages) but do NOT upgrade my radio, will I have:

USB Input?
Bluetooth to stream contents (music) off my iPod?

I believe so but am looking for confirmation/clarification. Thx.
Yes, I am fairly certain that all comes with Connectivity.
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:26 PM   #6837
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I have to say that i'm in the same boat as many of you. I haven't found a local dealer who even comes close to making my buisness feel wanted. I live a little over 900 miles away from Pat but I plan on buying my first Jeep from him. I'll order it then go and visit friends just outside of Chicago when it arives at Fields then drive it home.
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:50 PM   #6838
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I have to say that i'm in the same boat as many of you. I haven't found a local dealer who even comes close to making my buisness feel wanted. I live a little over 900 miles away from Pat but I plan on buying my first Jeep from him. I'll order it then go and visit friends just outside of Chicago when it arives at Fields then drive it home.
Because people like us a rare thing in the auto world. Most people come in, pick up their sport for their daughter or a cherokee for their wife, haggle back and forth until they get bored and that's that. THe salesman shtick works on them and the sun rises yet again. People like you (us) that are very well informed (so well informed in fact that we know more than the dealer about both their product and their numbers) that we become "difficult prey." Just live wolves will find another animal to kill, the dealer might want to pass you off to another pack of wolves, and make you their problem. Couple that with most people wanting a factory order and not buy off their lot, and you are an even less attractive meal. The thing that gave my 3 dealers a hardon was that I told them point blank that this is a test run for them. They are going to learn to earn a loyal customer and that they are not going to make a lot of money off this deal...I told them in about 3 months, I will be buying TWO Grand Cherokee Summits (one for my wife, and one for my dad) and whichever dealer treats me the best on this deal, will get the other two.
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:52 PM   #6839
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The price of the Jeep is easy... You know what options you want, you know the invoice amount, you know how the Affiliate discount works.

The hardest part is always the "trade-in tango". I spend zero time negotiating the price of my Wrangler....the real negotiation was the trade-in.

You gotta be willing to walk.

Just do you research and don't forget to get a quote from CarMax.
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:58 PM   #6840
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The price of the Jeep is easy... You know what options you want, you know the invoice amount, you know how the Affiliate discount works.

The hardest part is always the "trade-in tango". I spend zero time negotiating the price of my Wrangler....the real negotiation was the trade-in.

You gotta be willing to walk.

Just do you research and don't forget to get a quote from CarMax.
I usually have an easy time with my trades or friends/family that I help. If the vehicle has damage it gets far more complicated, but here is my simple formula.

Take the average values of KBB, NADA, etc for said vehicle in excellent condition. Take the median on the trade in value and the private party value (if the vehicle is popular or rare, lean it $1000 towards the private party side. Take that number, and subtract the tax in your state on that amount. This is the number that is a fair trade. If the dealer gets within a few hundred bucks ($500 or so) of that number, I'd take it, since it will save you the headache and time and hassle of selling your own vehicle, dealing with phone calls, tire kickers, etc etc.


As for willing to walk, absolutely, but you and I might have a different situation than many. For instance, I have at least 35 Jeep dealers within a 55 mile radius. Some only have 1 for 555 miles. Much more difficult to "walk" in those cases.

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