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Old 10-28-2013, 07:09 PM   #1
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2016 Wrangler to lose solid axles!?

Hope this is not true.

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Old 10-28-2013, 07:19 PM   #2
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If true, the forecast will be 2013-2015 MY's will remain in high demand.

.

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Old 10-28-2013, 07:24 PM   #3
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I highly doubt they will go that route... Independent suspension will out the Wrangler right back in the FJs/Overlander category. What makes a jeep a jeep is the extreme flexing of solid axles. If those disappear, I'll be looking at an old Land Rover, because the Wrangler has nothing to offer in the off road world anymore.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:25 PM   #4
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If true, the forecast will be 2013-2015 MY's will remain in high demand.

.
My thoughts exactly!
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:47 PM   #5
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Solid axle is such old technology. In fact, I can't even call it 'technology'. It's time to design that next generation route that is going to define offroad capability for 100 years to come. Trust me, it ain't solid axles!

In fact, 30 years from now people will probably laugh at solid axles and how ridiculous it is. "Death wobble" will be in history books.

Don't be afraid of change just because you learned to do things a certain way.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:54 PM   #6
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If they could build a long travel 4 wheel independent suspension like what is on the UTVs like the Polaris RZR and make it heavy duty enough to last it might not be a bad thing.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:55 PM   #7
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If they could build a long travel 4 wheel independent suspension like what is on the UTVs like the Polaris RZR and make it heavy duty enough to last it might not be a bad thing.
How do those handle at high speeds? Something tells me I'd have even more body roll
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:20 PM   #8
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It is inevitable.

All current 1/2 ton, midsize and compact pickup trucks have IFS and all SUVs [the exception being the Jeep Wrangler and Wrangler Unlimited] have independent front suspension. Heavy duty? The GM 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks are fitted with independent front suspension and have been for a while.

Eventually the solid rear axle will die away as well and that may not be a bad thing. It will allow for more ground clearance than currently exists. If Diesel-electric power ever makes its way into light vehicle production, it will blow open the concept of 4WD. No one will ever need lockers, LSD, etc.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:27 PM   #9
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I highly doubt they will go that route... Independent suspension will out the Wrangler right back in the FJs/Overlander category. What makes a jeep a jeep is the extreme flexing of solid axles. If those disappear, I'll be looking at an old Land Rover, because the Wrangler has nothing to offer in the off road world anymore.
Ummmm, no. Ever hear of a HMMWV? More commonly known as a Hummer H1, which is 4 wheel independent suspension, although admittedly utilizing portal axles...but it is 4 wheel independent suspension.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:27 PM   #10
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We might not buy one, but lots of other people all over the world market will.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:32 PM   #11
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Ummmm, no. Ever hear of a HMMWV? More commonly known as a Hummer H1, which is 4 wheel independent suspension, although admittedly utilizing portal axles...but it is 4 wheel independent suspension.
And what is the cost of a HMMWV compared to a Jeep?
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:35 PM   #12
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And what is the cost of a HMMWV compared to a Jeep?
Thank you
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:38 PM   #13
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Fully independent suspension with portal axles would be da bomb. The aftermarket companies would be really busy with redesigns for a while. I think the Wrangler engineers will continue to deliver a capable platform for off roading, whatever they come up with.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:42 PM   #14
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Fully independent suspension with portal axles would be da bomb.
No kidding. The question was never based on cost, but capability.
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:50 AM   #15
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When pickup trucks started going IFS it was immediately noted how weak they became offroad. In fact, 4x4 magazines to this very day dog the GM 1500 pickups for the IFS design that fails on the trail. So in order to build a Wrangler that will stand up to the use it's designed for, they would have to fit it with IFS that is extremely over-built...similar to something you'd see in a GM 3500 pickup instead. And that would add significant cost.

So, if Chrysler can use the solid axle for less money, and keep buyers happy in the process, it's a no brainer. I don't think the solid axles are going anywhere.

What is going to happen without question is they are going to have to shed size and weight. They are going to have to use different engine and transmission options. They are going to take the foldable windshield away and angle the glass more for decreased drag. They are going to have no choice but to tweak the vehicle in lots of areas to bring the combined MPG numbers up in order to meet CAFE standards. So the 2017 Wrangler will be a very different vehicle...but it will not lose it's basic architecture because that would be brand suicide and the new CEO is a smart man.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:23 AM   #16
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If the engineers can provide greater travel, more ground clearance and better reliability then let solid axles die the death of all old obsolete technologies. Cost really shouldn't enter in to it when you consider what it costs to mod a jeep. If they mass produce enough of them the additional cost should be minimal.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:24 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by legitposter View Post
Solid axle is such old technology. In fact, I can't even call it 'technology'. It's time to design that next generation route that is going to define offroad capability for 100 years to come. Trust me, it ain't solid axles!

In fact, 30 years from now people will probably laugh at solid axles and how ridiculous it is. "Death wobble" will be in history books.

Don't be afraid of change just because you learned to do things a certain way.
You're the same guy saying the new Cherokee was a better choice than the JK, right?

The fact that newer isn't always better has been proven over and over.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:27 AM   #18
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Thank you, Federal Government, for your ever persistent intrusion into the private market.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:32 AM   #19
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Thank you, Federal Government, for your ever persistent intrusion into the private market.
I'm all about government staying out of business, but its about damn time something lit a fire under automotive engineers' asses.

You can't keep serving people the same stuff with a different label. Technology needs to improve whether the consumer likes it or not.

With that said, I wouldn't mind an IS w/ a diesel.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:36 AM   #20
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Baja buggys and extreme crawlers don't have solid axles but that doesn't mean anything. Top fuel dragsters don't roll out of Detroit either. Solid front axles are the best thing for these wranglers in the price point they are at. There is no way MOPAR is going to build you an offroad monster, they will only make it safer - therefore less offroad capable.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:38 AM   #21
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Ummmm, no. Ever hear of a HMMWV? More commonly known as a Hummer H1, which is 4 wheel independent suspension, although admittedly utilizing portal axles...but it is 4 wheel independent suspension.
Look at its replacement, MRAP Category 1 and 2 vehicles. They're back to solid axles.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:39 AM   #22
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Thank you, Federal Government, for your ever persistent intrusion into the private market.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:39 AM   #23
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Thank you, Federal Government, for your ever persistent intrusion into the private market.
And, Dana and Cummins take a hit today. Both down 10%.

Probably not entirely because Fiat buys Italian VM diesel and hints at dead axles. But, that kinda crap sure doesn't help 2 great U.S. companies.

This Fiat crap pisses me off more and more everyday.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:47 AM   #24
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There is a hard core of Jeepers who are die-hard traditionalists and that is fine. But you don't survive in business by standing still. So Fiat/Chrysler will continue to refine the Jeep whether some like it or not. The latest Jeeps, with all of their electronics and suspension changes are better on and off road machines (combined) than their predecessors.

The key demographic for the Jeep market is off road capability, and that is what distinguishes it from other market offerings. I seriously doubt that Chrysler/Jeep engineers will do anything to diminish that ability, having improved it continuously over time. Before damning an idea let's see what they come up with first.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:51 AM   #25
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Anybody ever heard of the Ford Raptor? A Monster off road and extremely planted at high speeds! I say bring it on if it keeps Wranglers viable!
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:54 AM   #26
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Thank you, Federal Government, for your ever persistent intrusion into the private market.
And thank you federal government for your ever persistent support of the private market through tax subsidies, contracts, trade protections, anti-competitive actions, product safety protections and more. Fair and balanced, you know.
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:02 AM   #27
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quite frankly, I'm surprised the lawyers and beaurocrats even allow them to build something that could potentially be modified for something so dangerous and reckless as leaving the safety of the government provided hard road.
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:04 AM   #28
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Look at its replacement, MRAP Category 1 and 2 vehicles. They're back to solid axles.
And the MRAP weighs what? 3-4 times what a Wrangler weighs (if not more, I don't have any idea, but it's got to weight as much as a Duece/Half). The question was just how capable it could be with I/S. The M-151 (predecessor to the HMMWV) was a very nimble off-roader, and the HMMWV shocked everybody when it replaced the M-151 (I remember, I was there when it happened...when we actually drove the old "Jeeps" to the big motorpool across Fort Bragg, and returned to the Div. with the "Hummers". Which, btw, we hated because they were too big, too comfortable, too capable, etc..., sound like a bunch of TJ owners right?).

The jest of the topic was whether or not the Wrangler was going to end up on I/S or keep the solid axles (which I love, btw). The general concensous was that if it ended up with I/S it would loose capability. Maybe, maybe not. But there are examples of very capable off-road machines that employ I/S; that's a fact.
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:09 AM   #29
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I agree that I/S has the greatest potential for best off road....but my point is that is NOT on the agenda in the automotive world. They want to sell cars to the most people at the best margin. So, if they do leave the solid fronts behind, it will be for a cheap POS system that would have to be completely ripped out if you want to do much modifying.
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:52 AM   #30
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And thank you federal government for your ever persistent support of the private market through tax subsidies, contracts, trade protections, anti-competitive actions, product safety protections and more. Fair and balanced, you know.
I am a libertarian, so you can keep you dead horse, and your tax subsidies. When I say stay out, I mean stay out...period.

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