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Old 06-14-2013, 07:26 PM   #61
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Those all sound like great options to me and I hope it is the direction they go, one question though is if the tub is aluminum would there be a reason to LineX it? I guess maybe extra texture, increase strength a little? D60 and a diesel
An aluminum tub with linex inside and out will essentially make it a "forever" vehicle. It would never "rot."

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Old 06-14-2013, 07:29 PM   #62
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Excellent analogy.



An aluminum tub would be great, but there are tradeoffs. You simply can't straighten aluminum without compromising strength. Our Lotus has an aluminum tub which weighs ~130 pounds, about 1/3 of a steel tub. However if it is bent more than 1/4 inch, it is no longer to spec and the vehicle is going to be totaled. You'd be surprised how many low speed wrecks will total an aluminum tub vehicle.

Modern steel panels can be almost as light as aluminum and are MUCH more repairable. Some weight can be saved with plastics or fiberglass.
Well, the frame would still be steel. Hell, even the structural part of the Jeep can be steel, like the door pillars, etc. The doors, fenders, quarter panels, and hood can all be made out of aluminum. The wrangler is very different to your lotus. It's a body on frame, so the tub plays zero role in strength. Second, aluminum with proper bends and knurls can be made to be just as strong as steel (sheetmetal.) Having said that, your idea of fiberglass panels isn't crazy, although on a Jeep, I think I'd prefer plastic. Before anyone chews my head off, hear me out.

We offroad. That results in scratched paint, dents, blah blah blah. It sucks. What if you can go to your dealer, and for $100 bucks, pick up a brand new painted hood or fender?

Check this car out...been out since 2003 or so...the Smart Roadster (not US market.)


All the panels are urethane prepreg plastic, and the paint is "inside" the panel. There is nothing to scratch. They are all replaceable without the need for bodyshops. This is something the wrangler would benefit from IMHO. I would much rather have a urethane hood, urethane door skins, etc. I would wheel a LOT harder and the jeep would be much easier to keep clean.

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Old 06-14-2013, 07:39 PM   #63
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This is one of the more incoherent rants I have seen on this forum. Can you back up anything you wrote?
I dunno, I'm kind of with him on this. Tell me if you see any good ideas from the company that owns Jeep.

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I'd say there is about an 80% chance they are going to screw up the Wrangler, just like they screwed up the Cherokee.
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:23 PM   #64
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Well, the frame would still be steel. Hell, even the structural part of the Jeep can be steel, like the door pillars, etc. The doors, fenders, quarter panels, and hood can all be made out of aluminum. The wrangler is very different to your lotus. It's a body on frame, so the tub plays zero role in strength. Second, aluminum with proper bends and knurls can be made to be just as strong as steel (sheetmetal.) Having said that, your idea of fiberglass panels isn't crazy, although on a Jeep, I think I'd prefer plastic. Before anyone chews my head off, hear me out.

We offroad. That results in scratched paint, dents, blah blah blah. It sucks. What if you can go to your dealer, and for $100 bucks, pick up a brand new painted hood or fender?

Check this car out...been out since 2003 or so...the Smart Roadster (not US market.)


All the panels are urethane prepreg plastic, and the paint is "inside" the panel. There is nothing to scratch. They are all replaceable without the need for bodyshops. This is something the wrangler would benefit from IMHO. I would much rather have a urethane hood, urethane door skins, etc. I would wheel a LOT harder and the jeep would be much easier to keep clean.
This is an interesting idea I like it! I remember that smart car from top gear a few years ago seemed like a cool car

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I dunno, I'm kind of with him on this. Tell me if you see any good ideas from the company that owns Jeep.

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I'd say there is about an 80% chance they are going to screw up the Wrangler, just like they screwed up the Cherokee.

I think the Grand Cherokee and Ram trucks are pretty good and the viper looks pretty sweet, they are also making a 6.2L supercharged hemi so I see some positive moves out of them. While I agree the Cherokee is a train wreck I think they know how important the wrangler is to jeep's credibility. From everything I have read they say expect the same level of change that from the CJ to the YJ and it seems from what I have seen they aren't planning on making major changes but adding a few more variants to the line-up.

This is a pretty cool thread and this guy seems to have good info.
Future Jeep Rumourmill (Updated as of July 28, 2012) - JeepForum.com
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:29 PM   #65
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I dunno, I'm kind of with him on this. Tell me if you see any good ideas from the company that owns Jeep.

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I'd say there is about an 80% chance they are going to screw up the Wrangler, just like they screwed up the Cherokee.
When you say "screwed up the Cherokee" do you mean "made a profitable vehicle that is selling very well"? Or do you mean "made a vehicle that doesn't appeal to me"?

Jeep exists to make money. The Grand Cherokee is making money.


I very much like the other poster's ideas about plastic panels. Our grills are already plastic an no one is bitching.
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Old 06-14-2013, 08:35 PM   #66
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When you say "screwed up the Cherokee" do you mean "made a profitable vehicle that is selling very well"? Or do you mean "made a vehicle that doesn't appeal to me"?

Jeep exists to make money. The Grand Cherokee is making money.

I very much like the other poster's ideas about plastic panels. Our grills are already plastic an no one is bitching.
I think they're referring to the new 2014 Cherokee, not the Grand Cherokee.
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:19 PM   #67
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I think they're referring to the new 2014 Cherokee, not the Grand Cherokee.
Exactly. Rumor is that its being redesigned before the first gen has even been released.
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:43 PM   #68
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Exactly. Rumor is that its being redesigned before the first gen has even been released.

Well, whatever one is on the website looks like a butthole.


I still don't understand why Jeep makes 5 SUVs that all look like variations of the same butthole design with herpes.

The wrangler is their only saving grace.

For the time being...
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:04 PM   #69
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Well, whatever one is on the website looks like a butthole.

I still don't understand why Jeep makes 5 SUVs that all look like variations of the same butthole design with herpes.

The wrangler is their only saving grace.

For the time being...
That looks like a deformed Honda CR-V raped the prior Cherokee.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:19 PM   #70
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Jeep will never listen to forums because the forums are filled with true Jeepers. That's a small percentage of the overall buyers.

Most buyers are like me... The Daily drivers. These people (me) would prefer thick non-removeable doors that help block sound more, a slanted non-foldable windshield that cuts down on costs and helps with gas mileage, and better aerodynamics. I'd also like the spare removed ,TASTEFULLY not ugly, with an inflation kit included instead. I'd also like some modernized headlights, like the Grand Cherokee's, with HID as an option.

So what's my point? True Jeepers have different tastes than the daily driver type, and the daily driver type makes up a considerably larger chunk of the sales. So don't expect Jeep/Fiat to take ideas from the forum.
A Wrangler with non-removable doors? Wtf? Lol?

They need to start selling trucks without truck beds to help save gas.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:56 PM   #71
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A Wrangler with non-removable doors? Wtf? Lol?
Haha... And then they'll drop the W and it'll be a Rangler... Try selling that!

Oh wait... They want thicker, quieter, non-removable... Really???
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:03 PM   #72
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Haha... And then they'll drop the W and it'll be a Rangler... Try selling that!

Oh wait... They want thicker, quieter, non-removable... Really???
I will never tell another man how to spend his money but some of these suggestions are rofl material, . Before we know it someone will want Wranglers to have Audi LED-style headlights & non-removable tops.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:06 PM   #73
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A Wrangler with non-removable doors? Wtf? Lol?

They need to start selling trucks without truck beds to help save gas.
Non removable doors? Did I hear that right? Shame on you. Don't call yourself a jeeper. Take it back. You own a jeep but you're not a true Jeeper.
Just because you have one doesn't make you one. Especially after that comment

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Old 06-14-2013, 11:07 PM   #74
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I will never tell another man how to spend his money but some of these suggestions are rofl material, . Before we know it someone will want Wranglers to have Audi LED-style headlights & non-removable tops.
I would have no problem with a permanent top wrangler if it was say $2000 cheaper. I didn't buy a wrangler because its a convertible. It was a bonus but it had no bearing on me buying it. As a matter of fact, I got mine in November 2011 and the top has never been removed. Never had the chance. Weather doesn't let me here.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:33 PM   #75
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I would have no problem with a permanent top wrangler if it was say $2000 cheaper. I didn't buy a wrangler because its a convertible. It was a bonus but it had no bearing on me buying it. As a matter of fact, I got mine in November 2011 and the top has never been removed. Never had the chance. Weather doesn't let me here.

I sold my hard top, and I don't have a soft top either
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:23 AM   #76
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4x4 and a removable top is why i like wranglers.
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:08 AM   #77
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4x4 and a removable top is why i like wranglers.
Exactly! Everything else is just another SUV. Convertible SUV's are rare enough as it is and for the JKU, it's the only 4 door convertible of any platform.

As for the concerns of soccer mom's wanting to do away with the removable doors, I don't think that's really a problem. They may not remove the doors, but probably still like the idea they can. Most people don't need or use 4wd, but we all saw how well the 2wd Wrangler sold.

For me, I never fold the windshield, but I'd be a little upset if they did away with it. If anything I wish they would make it easier to drop the windshield. It would be nice not having any A-pillars in the way. Also, it would be nice if they made the front doors a little lighter with different length hinge bolts so I don't have line up both bolts at the same time while holding 50lbs of weight in an awkward position. And give me a proper handle on the inside so I can hold the door easier.
Oh and a fully modular hardtop. Why stop at the freedom panels? Break each side down to modular components and I'll be able to run a hardtop with no rear or side windows or any combo in between. I'll be able to remove it piece by piece with no hoist and store it easily. There you go, all the most common complaints of a hardtop is solved.
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Old 06-15-2013, 08:18 AM   #78
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Non removable doors? Did I hear that right? Shame on you. Don't call yourself a jeeper. Take it back. You own a jeep but you're not a true Jeeper.
Just because you have one doesn't make you one. Especially after that comment
He was saying it was a bad idea. Read better.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:12 PM   #79
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He was saying it was a bad idea. Read better.
maybe you need to read better..that's exactly what he said..read it again and again so you can get it through your thick little pea brain.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:15 PM   #80
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Well, whatever one is on the website looks like a butthole.


I still don't understand why Jeep makes 5 SUVs that all look like variations of the same butthole design with herpes.

The wrangler is their only saving grace.

For the time being...
I'll tell you why. It is a proven successful formula. BMW, Audi, and Mercedes no longer make three different cars. They make sizes. Small, medium, and large. It has worked very well for them. Hell, even the wrangler worked. The JK, then the JKU. Next they will release a JKUL, which will be a 7 seat JK and boom, suddenly dads with 3 kids and 2 dogs can rock a wrangler. The formula works.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:24 PM   #81
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He was saying it was a bad idea. Read better.
Yea, you might want to read that again
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:40 PM   #82
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I'll tell you why. It is a proven successful formula. BMW, Audi, and Mercedes no longer make three different cars. They make sizes. Small, medium, and large. It has worked very well for them. Hell, even the wrangler worked. The JK, then the JKU. Next they will release a JKUL, which will be a 7 seat JK and boom, suddenly dads with 3 kids and 2 dogs can rock a wrangler. The formula works.
You must not be aware of how they do their marketing. Flagship is revised (7 series/S class) and updated with tons of technology. Some filters down to the full size (5 series/ whatever merc's class) and even less to the compact. The desired characteristics dictate the size, not the other way around. The 3 will always be the best handling, 5 the fastest but softer and less nimble. The 7 series straight luxury.

They each have different frames and are dynamically, different cars. Those jeeps are all SUVs. FIVE DIFFERENT SIZES OF SUV? Are you %$%^$& kidding me? BMW makes 3, Audi makes 2, and Merc makes 2 (the G fug-wagon doesn't really count).

So, where BMW has 3 sizes, why does Jeep need 5? The Grand Cherokee and Wrangler are the only ones with any name recognition. I had heard of the patriot, because it's widely panned as a terrible vehicle. So there are the patriot, cherokee, and grand cherokee... fine. But wtf there is also the liberty and/or compass. WHY, why WHY!?
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:46 PM   #83
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maybe you need to read better..that's exactly what he said..read it again and again so you can get it through your thick little pea brain.

Saucy.
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:01 PM   #84
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maybe you need to read better..that's exactly what he said..read it again and again so you can get it through your thick little pea brain.
Quick question do you know what WTF means?
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:07 PM   #85
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Quick question do you know what WTF means?
Follow the arrow to find the original comment, he was confirming the "WTF" of the WTF guy's comment.
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:13 PM   #86
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Follow the arrow to find the original comment, he was confirming the "WTF" of the WTF guy's comment.
Yeah I thought he was going after it_felt for the no doors comment, when Legit was the one who said it
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:13 PM   #87
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Non removable doors? Did I hear that right? Shame on you. Don't call yourself a jeeper. Take it back. You own a jeep but you're not a true Jeeper.
Just because you have one doesn't make you one. Especially after that comment

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He was saying it was a bad idea. Read better.
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maybe you need to read better..that's exactly what he said..read it again and again so you can get it through your thick little pea brain.
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Yea, you might want to read that again
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Originally Posted by n00g7 View Post
Saucy.
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Originally Posted by Hokieneer View Post
Quick question do you know what WTF means?
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Originally Posted by n00g7 View Post
Follow the arrow to find the original comment, he was confirming the "WTF" of the WTF guy's comment.
I think HockeyMonster's original comment wasn't directed at me but at the guy I quoted (the one who wanted non-removable doors). If not then he totally missed my WTF, question marks, & Lol at the end.
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:18 PM   #88
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I think HockeyMonster's original comment wasn't directed at me but at the guy I quoted (the one who wanted non-removable doors). If not then he totally missed my WTF, question marks, & Lol at the end.

Welcome back to the convo WTF guy That was my understanding, regardless of the 'you'.
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:23 PM   #89
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I think HockeyMonster's original comment wasn't directed at me but at the guy I quoted (the one who wanted non-removable doors). If not then he totally missed my WTF, question marks, & Lol at the end.
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Welcome back to the convo WTF guy That was my understanding, regardless of the 'you'.
My mistake, now back to the discussion are D60's out of the question on a factory Wrangler?
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Old 06-15-2013, 04:17 PM   #90
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maybe you need to read better..that's exactly what he said..read it again and again so you can get it through your thick little pea brain.
OK, now you need to read *and* write better.

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