285/70R17 vs 315/70R17 - Page 4 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK General Discussion Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 04-19-2013, 03:09 PM   #91
Jeeper
 
Bouldozer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 46
Send a message via MSN to Bouldozer
35 inch tires

I put PRO-COMP Xtreme M/T, LT315/70/R17 Tri-ply (35”) plus spacers on my 2013 JKUR. Be sure to increase the gear ratio to compensate for the larger tires. It is simple to search and look up the ratio options for your needs on the internet - try "Jeep gear ratio."
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	HearAttack11_2012(C) (Small).JPG
Views:	210
Size:	122.2 KB
ID:	238158  

Bouldozer is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-19-2013, 03:10 PM   #92
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
BB1857's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sykesville, MD
Posts: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsonruizv View Post
Good idea. My long term goals for this JK is a Rubicon Express lift. Thanks for the suggestion.
no problem...for comparison sake i got the Rubicon shocks and springs for $160 shipped and the Daystar kit on Amazon for $135 shipped...did the install myself in about 5 hours so all in i was under $300!

BB1857 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 06:46 AM   #93
Jeeper
 
chisox711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 106
Im debating 33 or 35's myself. I have a JKU Rubicon with 3.73. When you guys say switching to 35s you need at least 4.10's is it the size of the tire or the weight that necessitates this? For instance, if I chose a lightweight 35 (duratrac) would I be ok?
chisox711 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 07:02 AM   #94
TOK
Jeeper
 
TOK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 972
Quote:
Originally Posted by chisox711 View Post
Im debating 33 or 35's myself. I have a JKU Rubicon with 3.73. When you guys say switching to 35s you need at least 4.10's is it the size of the tire or the weight that necessitates this? For instance, if I chose a lightweight 35 (duratrac) would I be ok?
I'm also curious about this same question as it applies to the Pentastar. Does the extra power over the 3.8 allow 35's with 3.73 gears?

I definitely wouldn't be happy having to ride the clutch away from stops. I'm actually leaning toward some type of A/T 33. My Jeep will still be used for 3 or 4 hour road trips a few times per year.
TOK is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 09:38 AM   #95
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 32
285/70/17. No lift. 3.21 gearing.

Got the 33s for a number of reasons and am happy I did so. I figured I'd drive these until they died and then move up to 35s if desired. In the meantime, I don't have to strengthen anything, add a tire carrier, change gearing, or other issues related to moving up to 35s.
Attached Images
 
paulandrewm is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 09:46 AM   #96
Jeeper
 
socal-jk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: LA/OC
Posts: 418
I just ordered 285/70/17 duratracs yesterday. I stewed over this for a few weeks. Reasons I chose them over the larger size is

Gas milage

Concerns with being on the borderline useability of my 3.73's

Weight of tires and spare fitting on tail gate

I wheel mine and I didn't want to worry about shafts and C's

That's my thoughts on it.
__________________
2012 JK teraflex spacer and quick discos, VDP stubby caps, Black Rock 909D's 285/70/17 Duratracs, Rubi shocks and springs, Magnaflow, SRC sliders, ARB strap, G2 diff armor, H4 headlights
2013 C250 Sport
1968 house
socal-jk is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 12:55 PM   #97
Jeeper
 
Bouldozer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 46
Send a message via MSN to Bouldozer
Quote:
Originally Posted by chisox711 View Post
Im debating 33 or 35's myself. I have a JKU Rubicon with 3.73. When you guys say switching to 35s you need at least 4.10's is it the size of the tire or the weight that necessitates this? For instance, if I chose a lightweight 35 (duratrac) would I be ok?
For 33 inch you probably need to increase the ratio to 4.1 and for 35 inch – 4.56. Even higher ratios if you mainly do off road driving.
Bouldozer is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 01:01 PM   #98
Jeeper
 
Bouldozer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 46
Send a message via MSN to Bouldozer
Lightbulb Gear ratio

The weight of the tires is not the issue in regards to the gear ratio.

Increasing the gear ratio is about trade-offs. As the ratio is increased the engine runs at a higher rpm (70 mph is used in many charts). Recommendations are based on the type of transmission, the size of the engine, and what your plans are with the vehicle.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	jk_ratio-chart-12 (Small).jpg
Views:	472
Size:	146.3 KB
ID:	238416  
Bouldozer is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 02:14 PM   #99
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Roux-Miroir, Belgium
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bouldozer View Post
The weight of the tires is not the issue in regards to the gear ratio.

Increasing the gear ratio is about trade-offs. As the ratio is increased the engine runs at a higher rpm (70 mph is used in many charts). Recommendations are based on the type of transmission, the size of the engine, and what your plans are with the vehicle.
Do you have the same gear chart for 2.8crd? it will be great for European and Autralian Jeepers.

Thank you

__________________
JEEP Cherokee - Liberty KJ 2.5 CRD 2002
phcn is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 02:33 PM   #100
Jeeper
 
socal-jk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: LA/OC
Posts: 418
I don't know about that chart im a little skeptical of it. A lot of jeeps came with basically 32's and 3.21 and 3.73's
__________________
2012 JK teraflex spacer and quick discos, VDP stubby caps, Black Rock 909D's 285/70/17 Duratracs, Rubi shocks and springs, Magnaflow, SRC sliders, ARB strap, G2 diff armor, H4 headlights
2013 C250 Sport
1968 house
socal-jk is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 06:01 PM   #101
Jeeper
 
Bouldozer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 46
Send a message via MSN to Bouldozer
I did not make up the chart. They are on the internet and are all close to being the same.

I found a simple formula to correct the gear ratio when the tire size is increased. This would keep the performance the same as for the smaller tires, though. Rounding is needed for the standard gear sizes.

( (new tire size in inches)/(old tire size in inches) ) x original gear ratio = new ratio
Bouldozer is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 06:31 PM   #102
Jeeper
 
Bouldozer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 46
Send a message via MSN to Bouldozer
Quote:
Originally Posted by phcn View Post
Do you have the same gear chart for 2.8crd? it will be great for European and Autralian Jeepers.

Thank you

I found a simple formula to correct the gear ratio when the tire size is increased. This would keep the performance the same as for the smaller tires, though. Rounding is needed for the standard gear sizes. Inches or cm could be used for the tire diameter.

( (new tire diameter)/(old tire diameter) ) x original gear ratio = new gear ratio
Bouldozer is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 07:24 PM   #103
Jeeper
 
wilsonruizv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: 07628
Posts: 224
Newbie here. Can I get an explanation on regearing when putting new tires on? Is this hardware or computer reconfigure? Is there a difference between manual and automatic tranmissions? I have automatic transmission JKU.
__________________
--
During a "guys" conversation I was asked what kind of car I drive. I answered, "I do not drive a car. I ride a Jeep." My wife gently pulled me by my arm and kissed me.
My Jeep and I are the whole package baby. Yeah!
wilsonruizv is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 07:49 PM   #104
Jeeper
 
dawhitesJKU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SoCal 714/562
Posts: 3,060
Send a message via Yahoo to dawhitesJKU
Heres a simple analogy. When you add larger tires, that adds to load. Think of it as if your jeep is packed with 5 adults....all the time. Depending on the tire size and weight, that leads to more load... And more stress, resulting in poor fuel economy. To compensate for this, you will need a regear. Though expensive, it will yield better results (less people).
__________________
2012 Flame Red. Eat, Sleep, Jeep

dawhitesJKU is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 07:54 PM   #105
TOK
Jeeper
 
TOK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 972
Quote:
Originally Posted by socal-jk View Post
I don't know about that chart im a little skeptical of it. A lot of jeeps came with basically 32's and 3.21 and 3.73's
I'm actually wondering about the accuracy of it at all... I have 3.73's and stock 32's on there and I think I'm turning more RPM at 60 than they say I'd be turning at 70 on that chart.
TOK is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 08:01 PM   #106
Jeeper
 
wilsonruizv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: 07628
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawhitesJKU View Post
Heres a simple analogy. When you add larger tires, that adds to load. Think of it as if your jeep is packed with 5 adults....all the time. Depending on the tire size and weight, that leads to more load... And more stress, resulting in poor fuel economy. To compensate for this, you will need a regear. Though expensive, it will yield better results (less people).
Thanks for the simple answer. I did not get it but my 9 year old explained it to me

Kidding aside. Thanks.
__________________
--
During a "guys" conversation I was asked what kind of car I drive. I answered, "I do not drive a car. I ride a Jeep." My wife gently pulled me by my arm and kissed me.
My Jeep and I are the whole package baby. Yeah!
wilsonruizv is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 08:02 PM   #107
Jeeper
 
dawhitesJKU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SoCal 714/562
Posts: 3,060
Send a message via Yahoo to dawhitesJKU
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOK View Post

I'm actually wondering about the accuracy of it at all... I have 3.73's and stock 32's on there and I think I'm turning more RPM at 60 than they say I'd be turning at 70 on that chart.
I think it's just a guesstimate. A close guesstimate. Size of wheels/tire/weight of wheel/tire have a lil more say into the equation.
__________________
2012 Flame Red. Eat, Sleep, Jeep

dawhitesJKU is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 08:16 PM   #108
TOK
Jeeper
 
TOK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 972
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawhitesJKU View Post
I think it's just a guesstimate. A close guesstimate. Size of wheels/tire/weight of wheel/tire have a lil more say into the equation.
Its the unworn (~400 miles) factory 32" SRA's, I'd hope they can do better than guess... I'll check next time I drive it, but I'm thinking they might be close to 1000 RPM off.

If you can't trust info on the stock Sport 16", Sport S 17" and Sahara 18" tire configurations, you can't trust any of it.
TOK is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 08:26 PM   #109
Jeeper
 
dawhitesJKU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SoCal 714/562
Posts: 3,060
Send a message via Yahoo to dawhitesJKU
I was off from only a few hundredth of a thousand rpm when I upgraded my 29 steelies to 33s and 3.21 gears. Mph was off slightly also. My aev procal purchase was not necessary IMO. It will vary with each jeep and their upgrade. The matrix for regearing is just nothing but a matrix. It's just helpful in our decision making.
__________________
2012 Flame Red. Eat, Sleep, Jeep

dawhitesJKU is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 09:00 PM   #110
Jeeper
 
fireguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pine CO
Posts: 167
I went with the 2.5" Rock Krawler coil lift kit and Bilstein shocks. For tires and wheels I went with 315 70 17 GY Duratracs mounted on Level 8 zx wheels on our 2013 JKU. Everything fit well and was able to use the stock spare tire carrier until I got the bumper and tire carrier combo. I went with the GY Duratracs because I use the Jeep as a daily driver and I need tires suited to the highway year round conditions so I had to sacrifice the off highway performance. My fuel economy on stock 255 GY tires on 2 tanks of fuel was 17 to 20 mpg with the auto and 3.73"s. After the mods of the lift, tires & wheels bumpers and winch I am getting a consistent 15 to 19 mpg. (off road in AZ the computer on the vehicle indicated 13 mpg on a 35 mile run while off road) On road and calculating with the miles driven and fuel used and the computer on the vehicle being within 3 to 4 tenths of each other. We have 2800 miles on the JKU now. I also did the AEV pro cal calibration because of the oversize tires and I am inside 1 mph verified gps. The AEV pro cal did make a big difference in the shifting and performance. The JKU really runs well and I am happy with the look and the performance. The Pentastar handles it and for now I will hold off any re-gear.
fireguy is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-20-2013, 10:45 PM   #111
Jeeper
 
jacebc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 26
Fireguy- This is very helpful information. So it sounds like you're happy with the setup: no setbacks as a daily driver and better off-road capabilities? How do you rate the lift? Any pics? Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireguy View Post
I went with the 2.5" Rock Krawler coil lift kit and Bilstein shocks. For tires and wheels I went with 315 70 17 GY Duratracs mounted on Level 8 zx wheels on our 2013 JKU. Everything fit well and was able to use the stock spare tire carrier until I got the bumper and tire carrier combo. I went with the GY Duratracs because I use the Jeep as a daily driver and I need tires suited to the highway year round conditions so I had to sacrifice the off highway performance. My fuel economy on stock 255 GY tires on 2 tanks of fuel was 17 to 20 mpg with the auto and 3.73"s. After the mods of the lift, tires & wheels bumpers and winch I am getting a consistent 15 to 19 mpg. (off road in AZ the computer on the vehicle indicated 13 mpg on a 35 mile run while off road) On road and calculating with the miles driven and fuel used and the computer on the vehicle being within 3 to 4 tenths of each other. We have 2800 miles on the JKU now. I also did the AEV pro cal calibration because of the oversize tires and I am inside 1 mph verified gps. The AEV pro cal did make a big difference in the shifting and performance. The JKU really runs well and I am happy with the look and the performance. The Pentastar handles it and for now I will hold off any re-gear.
jacebc is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-21-2013, 06:38 AM   #112
Jeeper
 
chisox711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawhitesJKU View Post
Heres a simple analogy. When you add larger tires, that adds to load. Think of it as if your jeep is packed with 5 adults....all the time. Depending on the tire size and weight, that leads to more load... And more stress, resulting in poor fuel economy. To compensate for this, you will need a regear. Though expensive, it will yield better results (less people).
The 33 in Duratracs weigh 49 lbs, the 35's weigh 60. For 5 would be a total increase of 55 lbs. That would be like adding a 6 year old riding in the jeep all the time. Im sure my current mud terrains weigh more than 49 lbs. So, from this I take it that the overall diameter is more a factor to re-gearing than weight.
chisox711 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-21-2013, 08:43 AM   #113
Jeeper
 
socal-jk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: LA/OC
Posts: 418
No but it does have an effect when it comes to load. You take an extra 5 pounds of tire spinning at 600 rpm and it takes a little more effort to get it slowed down. How much is a question for an engineer since I'm to lazy to look up the equation.
__________________
2012 JK teraflex spacer and quick discos, VDP stubby caps, Black Rock 909D's 285/70/17 Duratracs, Rubi shocks and springs, Magnaflow, SRC sliders, ARB strap, G2 diff armor, H4 headlights
2013 C250 Sport
1968 house
socal-jk is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-21-2013, 10:05 AM   #114
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
County98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by chisox711 View Post
The 33 in Duratracs weigh 49 lbs, the 35's weigh 60. For 5 would be a total increase of 55 lbs. That would be like adding a 6 year old riding in the jeep all the time. Im sure my current mud terrains weigh more than 49 lbs. So, from this I take it that the overall diameter is more a factor to re-gearing than weight.
Actually, unsprung weight works a little differently. I have no real reference, but for racing and whatnot I have heard that 10 pounds of unsprung weight is about equal to 10x in the seat.

So, say new tires and rims weigh in a 15 lbs heavier each. 15x4=60, 60x10=600 lbs, plus the raw weight of spare difference, add another 15.

615 lbs is like riding around with 3-4 full sized adults ALL the time.

Just what I've heard mind you, YMMV.
__________________
Cheers!
-USAF Retired

2013 CG Rubi, AEV Hood, AEV 2.5", ACE Sliders, Method Wheels, Rockhard Skid, Teraflex Hinge
County98 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-21-2013, 10:36 AM   #115
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
County98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 529
Just to validate a little...

I'm a retired AF fighter avionics guy. I KNOW that a spinning mass (gyro) is tough to hold on to. Has to do with overcoming inertia, drag, etc.

Really silly analogy...hold your tennis shoe in your hand. Weighs a few ounces, nothing right? Now grab the end of the shoelace and spin your shoe in the air as fast as you can...

Yanks your hand all over the place, and you're no where close to the weight or speed of a spinning wheel at 70 MPH.
__________________
Cheers!
-USAF Retired

2013 CG Rubi, AEV Hood, AEV 2.5", ACE Sliders, Method Wheels, Rockhard Skid, Teraflex Hinge
County98 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-21-2013, 10:42 AM   #116
Jeeper
 
chris4x4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by County98 View Post
Actually, unsprung weight works a little differently. I have no real reference, but for racing and whatnot I have heard that 10 pounds of unsprung weight is about equal to 10x in the seat.

So, say new tires and rims weigh in a 15 lbs heavier each. 15x4=60, 60x10=600 lbs, plus the raw weight of spare difference, add another 15.

615 lbs is like riding around with 3-4 full sized adults ALL the time.

Just what I've heard mind you, YMMV.
With tires, rotational mass plays more of a role. Every pound of added rotational mass, is equal to 4 pounds of weight added to the vehicle. So, adding larger tires, totaling 50 pounds over the stock tires, is like having 200 pounds thrown in the vehicle. The engine has to work harder to get the tires acelerating. Once underway, and at a steady speed, the load on the engine is marginal. A rule of thumb I have used, is if changing tire size by more than 10%, then I re gear.
chris4x4 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-21-2013, 10:59 AM   #117
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
County98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 529
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris4x4 View Post
With tires, rotational mass plays more of a role. Every pound of added rotational mass, is equal to 4 pounds of weight added to the vehicle. So, adding larger tires, totaling 50 pounds over the stock tires, is like having 200 pounds thrown in the vehicle. The engine has to work harder to get the tires acelerating. Once underway, and at a steady speed, the load on the engine is marginal. A rule of thumb I have used, is if changing tire size by more than 10%, then I re gear.
Agreed, but it's not just the mass that's important. How big the tire is (distance of weight from center), how much weight, where the weight is (tires would obviously be on the outermost edge), etc.

Overcoming all that inertia is hard on the brakes, drag from bigger contact patch (especially aired down), steering knuckles, flexing...

We're on the same page, but in my book, added wheel weight is a valid consideration that not many people take into consideration. Lots of folks just stuff the biggest, coolest looking wheels and tires they can and wonder why they're not happy later, lol.

For myself, I have a set of 285/70/17 Duratracs and lightweight Method wheels sitting in my garage waiting for me to get home for deployment. I'll upsize later after I wear them out and can put away some more money for gussets, etc.

All agree it's better to be informed and make smart decisions than spend a boatload of money and hate it. For some though, looking badass is a priority and thats okay!
__________________
Cheers!
-USAF Retired

2013 CG Rubi, AEV Hood, AEV 2.5", ACE Sliders, Method Wheels, Rockhard Skid, Teraflex Hinge
County98 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-21-2013, 11:15 AM   #118
Jeeper
 
SLEIPNIR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 45
SLEIPNIR is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 04-21-2013, 01:51 PM   #119
Jeeper
 
chris4x4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by County98 View Post
Agreed, but it's not just the mass that's important. How big the tire is (distance of weight from center), how much weight, where the weight is (tires would obviously be on the outermost edge), etc.

Overcoming all that inertia is hard on the brakes, drag from bigger contact patch (especially aired down), steering knuckles, flexing...

We're on the same page, but in my book, added wheel weight is a valid consideration that not many people take into consideration. Lots of folks just stuff the biggest, coolest looking wheels and tires they can and wonder why they're not happy later, lol.

For myself, I have a set of 285/70/17 Duratracs and lightweight Method wheels sitting in my garage waiting for me to get home for deployment. I'll upsize later after I wear them out and can put away some more money for gussets, etc.

All agree it's better to be informed and make smart decisions than spend a boatload of money and hate it. For some though, looking badass is a priority and thats okay!
Yup! My intention of my post was to add on to what you said. I meant to start the post like that :o
chris4x4 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 05-01-2013, 08:17 PM   #120
Jeeper
 
ImWhisper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 104
Images: 7
Whew!!
I think any questions asked of me were answered by those that kept up with the thread LOL!!
One I didn't see an answer to... Yes with the 34s, stock rims and the 2.5' lift we had to add spacers - went with 1.5". We did have a small bit of rubbing when turned on the air dam and used a sawzall and trimmed it a bit. No more rub... then again we just got rid of the stock bumper and are now running a stubby.


__________________
ImWhisper
aka Holly

2010 Surf Blue JKU ~ not completely stock!
ImWhisper is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Tags
33's , 35's , jku , tires

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:26 AM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC