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Old 03-29-2012, 11:54 AM   #1
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2dr Handling On Wet/Slick Roads?

I am going to replace my old '91 Toyota 4wd pickup this summer with either another pickup or possibly a Wrangler. My son has a 2011 Wrangler 4dr hardtop, and I am VERY impressed with it, except I am leaning towards a 2dr soft top. This jeep will be a daily driver, so it will spend 99% of its time on the street.

Years ago I was working on a project in Houston, and had a brand new TJ for a rental car! I really liked it, lots of fun, but I recall that one day when it rained it was like driving a hockey puck! It seemed very unstable on slick streets and prone to swap ends almost without warning (at least once, then I learned to be more careful) - I presume a combination of short wheelbase and high center of gravity.

So the new Wrangler JK 2drs, how do they handle on wet/slick roads.

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Old 03-29-2012, 11:59 AM   #2
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They are wider, longer, and heavier than the TJ. That being said, you still have to know what you are driving.

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Old 03-29-2012, 12:15 PM   #3
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They are so much larger and more stable now, it will be like night and day. I have no issues with my 2-dr in the rain.
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:21 PM   #4
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They handle great IMO.
Once you learn how it feels, you will be searching for snow.
The hardest part for me was "Relearning" what rear wheel drive is like.
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:00 PM   #5
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I'm pretty sure the new models have electronic stability control, which would help maintain control on slippery roads. But the actual street handling isn't as good as a pickup or a car. The steering is pretty numb and the weight makes the Wrangler feel awkward in any kind of quick maneuver.
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:17 PM   #6
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As I have been an owner of BOTH....(Yotas, CJs, YJs.....would not own TJ or newer).... I would recommend the Toyota for a DD......MPG will be better... and it WILL be more sure footed. If you get a base model of the Yota 4X4.... you will get a better price too and OVERALL... a higher quality machine.
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bc3_Jeep View Post
As I have been an owner of BOTH....(Yotas, CJs, YJs.....would not own TJ or newer).... I would recommend the Toyota for a DD......MPG will be better... and it WILL be more sure footed. If you get a base model of the Yota 4X4.... you will get a better price too and OVERALL... a higher quality machine.


Let me see if I've got the approach right here . . .

"Sure the OP is interested in a new Jeep. Sure he wants a soft top and likes the similar vehicle that's sitting in his driveway and is being driven by one of his family members. And no doubt Toyota SUVs aren't convertables and are nothing like what his son is driving. And sure this forum is full of folks who drive JKs and are deeply impressed with them, including some who've come through many models of Jeeps and Wranglers before. And no, I don't own a JK. And yes, I have an unspecified metaphysical objection to owning any jeep newer than 1995. BUT - I'm in a position to tell you that a new JK will be low quality, and you should just get a Toyota."

Seriously, WTF??

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Old 03-29-2012, 01:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH View Post


Let me see if I've got the approach right here . . .

"Sure the OP is interested in a new Jeep. Sure he wants a soft top and likes the similar vehicle that's sitting in his driveway and is being driven by one of his family members. And no doubt Toyota SUVs aren't convertables and are nothing like what his son is driving. And sure this forum is full of folks who drive JKs and are deeply impressed with them, including some who've come through many models of Jeeps and Wranglers before. And no, I don't own a JK. And yes, I have an unspecified metaphysical objection to owning any jeep newer than 1995. BUT - I'm in a position to tell you that a new JK will be low quality, and you should just get a Toyota."

Seriously, WTF??

+1,
No kidding.
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:55 PM   #9
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As a matter of Opinion, I DO prefer my Toyota as a DD over ANY Jeep Wrangler I have driven. I have driven the TJs and the JKs and find them lacking in JEEPness and far too CAR-like for my taste.

As for my NON-OPINION based facts of MPGs and Quality, I refer the nay-sayers to Consumer Reports FACTs of as-driven and tested models.
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:58 PM   #10
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No issues at all in the rain with my 2 door. I would test drive the hard to and soft top. I love the hard top for a everyday driver.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:00 PM   #11
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Modern Toyotas are a joke. Just get the JK and be done with it!
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:04 PM   #12
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Living in Seattle, wet slick roads are an every day affair, add hills to that and it can get dicey. That's why Subaru has almost 10% of market share. My wife's forester is amazing and way nicer than my JK on the roads... but I want a jeep!

All that being said, I havn't had a single instance if tire slipping or traction issues whatsoever, its been great.
My JK is a daily driver and I couldn't be happier. Traded in an '11 wk2 and sure the ride is bumpier, noisier, but my JK is the funnest rig I've ever driven.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bc3_Jeep View Post
As a matter of Opinion, I DO prefer my Toyota as a DD over ANY Jeep Wrangler I have driven. I have driven the TJs and the JKs and find them lacking in JEEPness and far too CAR-like for my taste.

As for my NON-OPINION based facts of MPGs and Quality, I refer the nay-sayers to Consumer Reports FACTs of as-driven and tested models.
Your opinion is fine and one you're entitled to, it just has nothing to do to the original question. It'd be like if I wandered into the CJ section and told somebody asking about a potential CJ purchase not to do it because I prefer JKs.

As to facts, MPGs are indeed numbers and I'm with you there. Of course, the original poster didn't ask about MPGs, so . . . .

And please don't swing the Consumer Reports crap around here on "quality" and tell me it's "fact." CR has been excoriated any number of times on this site and others, but the bottom line is "quality" is a subjective term and is defined by CR (and others, like JD Power) in metrics that Wranglers are going to do poorly in when compared to Honda Accords--"cabin noise," "ride comfort," and the like.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:17 PM   #14
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I drive my brothers new Toyota all the time when helping them at work. I wouldn't take two of them for my JK
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:42 PM   #15
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It's a very short wheelbase rear wheel drive vehicle. In the rain not so bad. Snow/icy conditions I would want the JKU.
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Old 03-29-2012, 06:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH View Post


Let me see if I've got the approach right here . . .

"Sure the OP is interested in a new Jeep. Sure he wants a soft top and likes the similar vehicle that's sitting in his driveway and is being driven by one of his family members. And no doubt Toyota SUVs aren't convertables and are nothing like what his son is driving. And sure this forum is full of folks who drive JKs and are deeply impressed with them, including some who've come through many models of Jeeps and Wranglers before. And no, I don't own a JK. And yes, I have an unspecified metaphysical objection to owning any jeep newer than 1995. BUT - I'm in a position to tell you that a new JK will be low quality, and you should just get a Toyota."-

Seriously, WTF??

Ha! This reply gave me my laugh for the day!

Seriously though, I would not even consider another Toyota. Way too much money, and I had service issues with the design of certain parts in the interior and with their 4WD system that really browned me off, so they lost me as a customer.

The other contender, besides the Jeep, is, believe or not, a Ford Ranger. Ford stopped making them in 2011, and you can pick up a top of the line 4WD extracab Ranger for not much more than $20K. I know it's not in the same league as the Wrangler, but I might really miss not having a truck for hauling mulch and stuff like that. If I decide on a Wrangler I'll probably have to get a trailer.
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Old 03-29-2012, 07:03 PM   #17
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I don't think citing Consumer Reports is going to gain you any traction in this argument, but it does keep your reasoning consistent.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:01 PM   #18
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Rain is overrated. Unless you are going way too fast, are a complete hamfist, or doing it intentionally you should never really break traction in a way that will result in an accident.

I could see where the Wrangler would hydroplane at hwy speeds and the 2DR would be dicier. But I really don't think it should be an issue.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:14 PM   #19
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It's a very short wheelbase rear wheel drive vehicle. In the rain not so bad. Snow/icy conditions I would want the JKU.
FWIW: up until the latest rendition, Porsche 911's have had wheelbases at or under 92.6 in. They started at 87 in. and hung around 89.3 for about 20 yrs. The latest model bumps it up to a "long" 96.5 in.

The Wrangler's is solid 95.6 in, although it's about 1000lbs heavier, ~10-12 in higher CG, and has solid axles. The weight distribution is good though
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bc3_Jeep View Post
As a matter of Opinion, I DO prefer my Toyota as a DD over ANY Jeep Wrangler I have driven. I have driven the TJs and the JKs and find them lacking in JEEPness and far too CAR-like for my taste.

As for my NON-OPINION based facts of MPGs and Quality, I refer the nay-sayers to Consumer Reports FACTs of as-driven and tested models.
what about the consumer report saying the 2012 jk will have the highest resale value out of any other vehicle on the market over 6 years?

Back on topic, i do fine in the rain with my 2 door rubi, no complaints at all and its the most fun machine i've ever driven on the street
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:48 PM   #21
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If only I lived and worked in a world where quality was SUBJECTIVE....... instead of measurable......and quantitative......In my business, quality has to go in, perpetually... or people do not have electricity... or gas...... or any number of other things they NEED.......

Show me a family that has owned 4 Wranglers and done NOTHING to them but change the oil, plugs, tires and filters for over a million miles (we have done that with 4 Toyotas), and I will talk apples and apples on quality.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:48 PM   #22
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Where do you get your info, besides Consumer Reports?

My 07's last fill-up was an actual 19 mpg with 32's. And I had the top off all week.

The 12 Tacoma is rated for 19 combined, so MPG is a wash. Until you put bigger tires on the Yota. Also, lets see you pull the top and doors off that Toyota.

Also, I've never spun a tire in rain or snow. But then again, I am driving a Jeep, not a hot rod.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:51 PM   #23
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If only I lived and worked in a world where quality was SUBJECTIVE....... instead of measurable......and quantitative......In my business, quality has to go in, perpetually... or people do not have electricity... or gas...... or any number of other things they NEED.......

Show me a family that has owned 4 Wranglers and done NOTHING to them but change the oil, plugs, tires and filters for over a million miles (we have done that with 4 Toyotas), and I will talk apples and apples on quality.
says the guy who has never owned a tj... they literally run forever.
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:54 AM   #24
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Remember that my only prior experience with a short wheelbase Jeep was in Houston Texas in the summer after the hot Texas sun had baked the roads for weeks. Then it rained a shower. But I can honestly say that I was surprised at how fast that TJ tried to swap ends!

I have to say, I'm impressed with my son's 4dr JK.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:19 AM   #25
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It comes with a factory installed roll bar, don't sweat it.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:25 AM   #26
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I have never had a problem with rain, snow or ice in my 2000 TJ. I think that it is more of a tire issue than anything else.
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:04 AM   #27
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My YJ used to slide all over the place in the rain, but my JK is very stable. I don't worry about it at all. Hugs the road nicely in all conditions despite the Mud Terrain tires that came with the Arctic. Honestly, when I chose the Arctic, I figured the MT's would be a little sketchy on wet roads, but they aren't at all; even under heavy braking.

So, go grab a JK and join the party!!!!!!
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:50 AM   #28
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I don't see driving a Jeep as being difficult in rain unless your Jeep isn't equipped for it (i.e. bald tires or mud tires with smooth lugs, worn out brakes, etc.). I've driven several Jeeps in the rain and it's not much different than driving anything else in the rain.. just gotta take it slow and make sure you have adequate brakes/tires/etc.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:52 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bc3_Jeep View Post
As a matter of Opinion, I DO prefer my Toyota as a DD over ANY Jeep Wrangler I have driven. I have driven the TJs and the JKs and find them lacking in JEEPness and far too CAR-like for my taste.

As for my NON-OPINION based facts of MPGs and Quality, I refer the nay-sayers to Consumer Reports FACTs of as-driven and tested models.
If the JK drives like a car, it would make a good DD IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bc3_Jeep View Post
If only I lived and worked in a world where quality was SUBJECTIVE....... instead of measurable......and quantitative......In my business, quality has to go in, perpetually... or people do not have electricity... or gas...... or any number of other things they NEED.......

Show me a family that has owned 4 Wranglers and done NOTHING to them but change the oil, plugs, tires and filters for over a million miles (we have done that with 4 Toyotas), and I will talk apples and apples on quality.
Toyotas do last for a long time, but I've had different results than just changing the oil and performing standard maintenance. I don't own any Toyotas now.

I've owned 2 Toyotas, a camry for 16 years and a 4-Runner for 18 years. On the camry, the auto transmission started slipping at about 150,000 miles. On the 4-Runner, I had to rebuild the engine twice. It blew a head gasket at 99,000 and the dealer fixed it. At 203,000 a head gasket blew again.

I sold both Toyotas. I replaced the 4-Runner with a 2012 JKU Rubicon and I'm not looking back to Toyota. I expect my JKU will last just as long as my Toyota with proper maintenance and even if I have to rebuild the engine on the JK, it will be no different than my Toyota experience. If I don't rebuild the engine, I'll have a reason to put a Hemi or diesel in it.

Regarding the OP's question, I don't think you will have an issue with a 2-door JK. Even if the short wheelbase has you questioning its stability in bad weather, it has electronic stability controls that will help keep you pointed in the right direction.

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