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Old 06-12-2013, 11:58 AM   #1
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3.6 and 4.56's

Those of you with a 2012 or 2013 with an automatic and 34-35" tires with 4.10's or 4.56's what are your rpms like at 70 mph. I am torn between the 4.10 and 4.56. This is my wifes daily driver and I dont want the rpms at 2600-3000 at 70. I would like to keep them around 23-2500. With that said would i be better off with the 4.10's? Either would be a lot better than the 3.21's thats in it. I want to find that happy medium of performance and fuel mileage. I am currently hand calculating 15.3 to 16 mpg mixxed hwy and city, mostly hwy as we live out in the country. I dont want to put the 4.56's and wish I would have opted for the 4.10's and vise versa. I would appreciate your honest real world findings of the 2 gears mentioned.
Thanks
Brian

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Old 06-12-2013, 12:03 PM   #2
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There is an rpm calculator somewhere around here. I am still new here. With the auto you are going to consume more for sure. I have 4.10s with 35" tires on a manual and I could go to a 4.56 to get more torque back, but I'm getting decent MPGs.

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Old 06-12-2013, 12:08 PM   #3
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This is one of our member's site. I use it all the time.
Gear Ratio Calculator

#1 Your auto is the Dodge NAG-1
#2 1 for high. You don't need low but can enter it if you want (2.72)
#3 ignore
#4 3.21, 3.73, 4.10, 4.56, whatever...
#5 tire size
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:27 PM   #4
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Jeep Wrangler JK Gear Ratios

There's a chart there and elsewhere.

It's focused on your 70 MPH type cruising in OD, or it appears to be.

You can also use one of the many caculators out there and put in all the specifics yourself.

4.10 looks like it matches what you are looking for
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:29 PM   #5
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This is one of our member's site. I use it all the time.
Gear Ratio Calculator

#1 Your auto is the Dodge NAG-1
#2 1 for high. You don't need low but can enter it if you want (2.72)
#3 ignore
#4 3.21, 3.73, 4.10, 4.56, whatever...
#5 tire size
That's a great calculator. The guy who wrote that must be a genius.

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Old 06-12-2013, 12:56 PM   #6
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4.10s would be better for gas mileage if that's your primary concern- and put you closer your preferred RPM. No doubt. Plenty of people running 4.10s and 35s are perfectly happy. Its a safe bet. Also- you can search for a Rubicon with 4.10s and 35s at a dealer to test drive. I'll bet you can find one pretty easy.
But remember- a Jeep is not a Honda if you're concerning about hi-revving. At 70 MPH with 4.56s I do run about 2700-2800 RPMs. However there isn't any difference in engine noise, you're nowhere near red line, and pick-up is great. Try "downshifting" into 4th on the freeway and adjust your speed until you hit around 2700-2800 RPMs to see what its like. I'd would like the freeway RPMs to be a tad lower- only because I know its what is killing my MPG. (And I drive 75 MPH). But performance is more important to me so I just enjoy it and drive. City driving its perfect. I am glad I went with 4.56s.
(Though I am averaging with 4.56s what you're averaging with 3.21s which is odd. You must be heavy pedaling. I get 14-15 with 4.56s).
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:57 PM   #7
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If I could get someone who has my set up with the 4.56's tell me how it is I would be sold. I guess it wouldn't hurt nothing turning a higher rpm besides fuel. I would be pissed if I was to regear and the mileage went down... I would think it would have to get better since its lugging with the 3.21's. Come on guys sale me on some gears.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:58 PM   #8
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That's a great calculator. The guy who wrote that must be a genius.

Guessing you huh? I love you man. It was by far the most helpful thing out there. Thanks. The 70 MPH chart only helps you with freeway speeds and I wanted to see the whole range.
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:00 PM   #9
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4.10s would be better for gas mileage if that's your primary concern- and put you closer your preferred RPM. No doubt. Plenty of people running 4.10s and 35s are perfectly happy. Its a safe bet. Also- you can search for a Rubicon with 4.10s and 35s at a dealer to test drive. I'll bet you can find one pretty easy.
But remember- a Jeep is not a Honda if you're concerning about hi-revving. At 70 MPH with 4.56s I do run about 2700-2800 RPMs. However there isn't any difference in engine noise, you're nowhere near red line, and pick-up is great. Try "downshifting" into 4th on the freeway and adjust your speed until you hit around 2700-2800 RPMs to see what its like. I'd would like the freeway RPMs to be a tad lower- only because I know its what is killing my MPG. (And I drive 75 MPH). But performance is more important to me so I just enjoy it and drive. City driving its perfect. I am glad I went with 4.56s.
(Though I am averaging with 4.56s what you're averaging with 3.21s which is odd. You must be heavy pedaling. I get 14-15 with 4.56s).
I drive it fairly easy, it is more less a turd. I daily drive a 590rwhp truck so getting in the jeep I just putt along, I don't know how the ole lady drives it???
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:07 PM   #10
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If I could get someone who has my set up with the 4.56's tell me how it is I would be sold. I guess it wouldn't hurt nothing turning a higher rpm besides fuel. I would be pissed if I was to regear and the mileage went down... I would think it would have to get better since its lugging with the 3.21's. Come on guys sale me on some gears.
I would think it would have to get better since its lugging with the 3.21's.

I thought the same thing- but gas mileage went down with 4.56 gears. Even though you're not hitting the gas pedal to get it out of "lug mode" as I call it in 3.21s- you'll wind up at a higher RPM overall. That's is what will lower your MPG with new gears. But then again I was getting 18-19 highway with 3.21s on 305-70/17s. And I am not a slow driver.

(One of the Chrysler car commercials actually says "Tuned to run at lower RPMs for better gas mileage" or something along those lines.)
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:35 PM   #11
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The problem with 3.21 gears and 35" tires is that you're way below the power band in the engine and it has to struggle to get the Jeep moving. And that's what kills your mileage.

I noticed right away after I upgraded from 3.21 to 4.56 with my stock 255/75R17 tires that I wasn't riding the clutch getting started any more.

I have a Bully Dog programmer with the economy tune right now and I've found that on the freeway at 75 with the 3.21s I was getting around 19 MPG or so whether I was in 5th or 6th gear. But when I drive on the state and county roads around 60-65 in 5th gear my mileage actually went up to 23-24 consistently.

Now that I have 4.56 gears, I was doing that same 60-65 on state roads, but in 6th gear, and my mileage was still around 22-24. I don't have a big enough sample to know exactly how much my mileage dropped but it wasn't by much in that scenario. And I haven't done any real freeway driving yet (just installed the gears on Sunday) but I imagine I'll have the same mileage drop to 19 (or maybe a little lower) driving around 75.


What that tells me is that the 3.6 just doesn't like to run under 2K RPMs. With the 3.21s, 6th gear would put me under 2K until I got close to 80. And by then I was going so fast the aerodynamics was just killing me. Overdrive with 3.21 gears just saps so much torque that the engine can't push hard enough to keep the Jeep moving that fast. When I down shifted to 5th, I popped my RPMS up above 2K so that I could cruise at 70 with no problems at all. The engine was in the rev range where it needed to be to hold that speed. 3.73's in 6th gear is somewhat close to 3.21's in 5th so I know that getting right in that ballpark is where you want to be to maximize your mileage.


To the OP, I would suggest that if you're wanting a drivable Jeep with 35's while still getting decent economy, get the 4.10s. That's enough gear to get the 35's moving while still being tall enough to give you reasonable freeway RPMs (between 2100-2200 depending on actual tire size).

If you step up to 4.56 you'll get more grunt off the line but it will cost you a little in mileage. That's fine for me but I want the shorter gears to give me a better crawl ratio without destroying my mileage. If you're mostly a street driver with a concern for mileage, 4.10's is what you want.
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Old 06-12-2013, 02:00 PM   #12
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Dear Chrysler,
Please replace your stock 3.21's with stock 3.55's.

Thank you
Everyone
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:59 PM   #13
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This is one of our member's site. I use it all the time.
Gear Ratio Calculator

#1 Your auto is the Dodge NAG-1
#2 1 for high. You don't need low but can enter it if you want (2.72)
#3 ignore
#4 3.21, 3.73, 4.10, 4.56, whatever...
#5 tire size

WTF does "NaN" stand for?
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:09 PM   #14
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Derf, how is the bully setup working in "non-economy"? I am interested in that specially since I may up the gearing a bit.
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:52 PM   #15
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WTF does "NaN" stand for?
Not a Number. Usually means the math tried to divide by zero or something.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:28 PM   #16
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WTF does "NaN" stand for?
It means you left something out on the form and it couldn't calculate something. Say you forgot to select metric/vs inch tires and you didn't put in a tire size. Or if you did a "select your own" on the transmission or transfer case and you didn't put in enough numbers it would have a problem.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:29 PM   #17
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Derf, how is the bully setup working in "non-economy"? I am interested in that specially since I may up the gearing a bit.
I tried out the premium tune but the throttle response was so absurdly touchy that it was basically not drivable.
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:39 PM   #18
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4.10 with MTR 35 (pretty true-to-size). My RPMs at 70 are about 2,300. I am thinking about 4.56 or 4.88. I would absolutely prefer the 4.56 over the 4.10, but I do live in Colorado. On flat land, 4.10 would be quite okay.
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:43 PM   #19
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You guys think 4.56s will be live-able with 33s? My duratracs are only 6000 miles old, and I was gonna go with 35s when they are done. (2012 JKU with 3.21s auto.)
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:46 PM   #20
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4.10 with MTR 35 (pretty true-to-size). My RPMs at 70 are about 2,300. I am thinking about 4.56 or 4.88. I would absolutely prefer the 4.56 over the 4.10, but I do live in Colorado. On flat land, 4.10 would be quite okay.
I just got back from Colorado. I'd want 9.99s for the rockies. Tackling them with my 3.21s in a fully loaded auto JKU was painful. I was sitting in the right lane with the semis doing 35 (65mph speed limit) with my hazards on.
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:03 PM   #21
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I think 4.56 would be perfect. 4.88 would rev a bit high for me. I'd still do 4.88 but my top choice for the 2012+ would be 4.56...for 35s.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:46 AM   #22
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You guys think 4.56s will be live-able with 33s? My duratracs are only 6000 miles old, and I was gonna go with 35s when they are done. (2012 JKU with 3.21s auto.)
For what its worth: My KM2s were 305/70-17s- 33.5" really. 6000 miles too. They were fine. Since they were MTs they're probably quite a bit heavier than your Duratracs though. (Wish there some scientific formula for this.) The swap from Km2s to (true) 35" MTs barely made a smidge of difference going the other way. The only worry would be highway RPMs- but that at least you can check against the chart (or calculator). It was pretty accurate.
Have you considered selling your Duratrac's now (Craigs List) and swapping? You can get more $$ with less miles/wear.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:47 PM   #23
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For what its worth: My KM2s were 305/70-17s- 33.5" really. 6000 miles too. They were fine. Since they were MTs they're probably quite a bit heavier than your Duratracs though. (Wish there some scientific formula for this.) The swap from Km2s to (true) 35" MTs barely made a smidge of difference going the other way. The only worry would be highway RPMs- but that at least you can check against the chart (or calculator). It was pretty accurate.
Have you considered selling your Duratrac's now (Craigs List) and swapping? You can get more $$ with less miles/wear.
I thought about that but the problem is the avalanche of mods I'd need to buy ASAP. Im waiting for my expeditionONE aluminum rear to be released ($1600) since I'll need a carrier for the 35". Then I'll need to C gussets. Add that to the re-gear, and were looking at nearly 5K worth of mods ASAP. Thats why I wanted to stagger the mods.
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:43 PM   #24
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I may look at the tuning from BD and see.


HK, That is pretty much what I am seeing with the 4.10 and the 35s. I have gotten used to pressing the pedal a bit more on startup than say my 1.8t VW(yes I know)

For what it's worth, the gearing should be done with a few things in mind:

Will you ever tow?
Will you go bigger on the tires?
Do you mind your gas mileage at all?
How much crawling do you/will you do?

For me, I don't tow much at all and I hardly go mudding. If I do, I will be alright, just know my limits. I am definitely not going bigger than 35s, for now

E
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:52 PM   #25
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I'm running 37's with 4.56 ProCal'd GPS check and 1MPH off...2450 rpm's @ 70.
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Old 06-14-2013, 07:56 PM   #26
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If you live in the mountains, it is a much bigger deal. In Kansas City or Florida, the 4.10s with 35s will be fine. I do wheel (more like exploring- not crawling over boulders) and that is why I have the Jeep. The 4.10s are bearable here but it keeps dropping to 3rd or 4th (if lucky) on the steep highways. When I go exploring, I almost always have to climb a few thousand feet on the highway and then the steep trails start. It becomes a bit annoying/tiresome on I-70 mainly. I suspect I will go to 4.56s soon. I also don't want to rev 3,000 RPMs at 70 mph, so I was discounting the 4.88s. This said, I am holding off and getting a few other lift/alignment issues sorted out first. Then I'll use the Jeep this season and see how strong the urge to re-gear becomes. As far as mudding goes...no thanks. That sounds like zero fun. Give me dirt, rocks, creek crossing, and mountain trails.
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:52 AM   #27
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New question. I have a 2012 Auto with 3:21's and just recently started towing with it. (a 3100lb trailer) It towed fine( a little sluggish) and am considering regearing. I will be running 35's at the time. I'm thinking 4:56 is the best balance for me.

Opinions?
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:14 AM   #28
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New question. I have a 2012 Auto with 3:21's and just recently started towing with it. (a 3100lb trailer) It towed fine( a little sluggish) and am considering regearing. I will be running 35's at the time. I'm thinking 4:56 is the best balance for me.

Opinions?
With 35's I wouldn't go any taller (numerically lower) than 4.56 gears if I was towing a trailer. I might even consider 4.88 gears for towing. But 4.56 should be OK.
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:16 AM   #29
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With 35's I wouldn't go any taller (numerically lower) than 4.56 gears if I was towing a trailer. I might even consider 4.88 gears for towing. But 4.56 should be OK.
That's what I'm thinking. Thanks
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Old 08-31-2013, 03:16 PM   #30
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Im so confuse now 4.10 or 4.56 mainly dd little off road
2012 jku 3.21 35 with 3' lift

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