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Old 12-10-2011, 01:47 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badtux View Post
Even in a street Rubi, it makes it *fun* because it makes it scoot like a scalded rabbit. And isn't fun the whole point of a Jeep Wrangler?

Yes, it''ll cost you 1mpg on your highway gas mileage, so you'll get 20mpg rather than 21mpg (or 19mpg rather than 20mpg if running at 70 rather than 60), big deal, if you want mpg buy a Hyundai. Yes, the engine will run at a higher RPM on the highway. No, it's not a big deal. The Pentastar is smooooooooooth. You can run it at 2800 rpm and 75 mph all day long and the only expression it'll put on your face is a grin, not a grimace. Not like the rough old minivan engine at all, which always thrashed once you started getting up in the RPM's...

In other words, I have the 4.10 in my auto Rubi and find no downsides at all given that I was looking for *fun* -- and it gives me that in spades, whether on-road or off .

(Note: I have owned my Rubi for 2 months now and have 3800 miles on it. Around 2000 of those are high speed highway miles getting to and from wheeling sites in the northern Mojave Desert. No problem!)
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Old 12-10-2011, 01:50 AM   #62
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If you don't need a 4.10 in a Rubi, You don't need a Rubi. You should be getting a Sport or Sahara. I never understand the purpose of buying a Rubi and not using it for what is is designed for, rock crawling. It really is a waste of money otherwise.

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Old 12-10-2011, 01:54 AM   #63
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If you don't need a 4.10 in a Rubi, You don't need a Rubi. You should be getting a Sport or Sahara. I never understand the purpose of buying a Rubi and not using it for what is is designed for, rock crawling. It really is a waste of money otherwise.
Mmm the lockers and stronger front axle are useful for more than just rock crawling on a really gnarly trail. Plenty of times in the spring/early summer out west you will run across a major washout on a forest road and having the ability to lock both of those axles is a real safety blanket, even if you don't need to use the sway bar disco. And in that scenario you really don't need a ton of gear either.

BLD is great but it doesn't help you keep momentum, for example. If they made Sports with LSD rear and selectable front locker in the Dana 30 I'd be all over it. But the cost of adding that locker to a Sport isn't going to be recouped in resale, whereas the Rubi OEM equipment does have some resale value. So there are reasons to bump up to the Rubi even if you are not doing a lot of rock crawling.
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Old 12-10-2011, 01:56 AM   #64
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You can regear, buy lockers, discos and new axle in a Sport cheaper then buying a Rubi

And I have a Sport with LSD rear, front selectable lockers and gusset d30 and love it. Yea I had to add it later but still cheaper.
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Old 12-10-2011, 02:01 AM   #65
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You can regear, buy lockers and new axle in a Sport cheaper then buying a Rubi

And I have a Sport with LSD rear, front selectable lockers and gusset d30 and love it
Yep, but if you sell/trade in the Sport you get very little back for those aftermarket additions, whereas if you sell/trade in the Rubi you get a big chunk of the difference in price back. At least on average, saying you trade in after 5 years or so. The longer you keep it the more your strategy makes sense instead of getting a Rubi. I hope you went this route planning on holding onto the Jeep for a long time.

There are folks out there, whoever, who think they can do a "poor man's" Rubi, buy a Sport, regear and add selectable lockers to both axles and a sway bar disco, and think they come out ahead. Five years later they trade it in and if they'd done all the math (accounted for resale value) they would have realized that is not the case.
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Old 12-10-2011, 02:02 AM   #66
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Here is the problem with 4.10's on a 2012 auto Rubi....$$$$

Not so much for gas...but for mods.

If you have a Dana 44 up front and 4.10's.....well...you might as well add 35's because it is basically geared for 35's. And since you are adding 35's to a Rubi...you will need to add a lift. And since you have a lifted Rubi on 35's and don't want to be a poser, you should take it off road. And since you are going off road....you better add some armor....and a winch...which may require some bumpers...ohh...and some extra lights....and some tube doors...and a paid membership to WF.... and Tread Lightly....

OP...your pocket book has entered a world of hurt.
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Old 12-10-2011, 02:04 AM   #67
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What you can't get cheaper is a 4:1 transfer case which is expensive. You need that low end for rock crawling alone with the 4.10 gears

One thing nice about 4.10's stock though is towing ability and bigger tires without having to regear. Especially in a JKU.
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Old 12-10-2011, 02:06 AM   #68
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Might not get all the add-ons back but they do help sell it. And it still is cheaper in the end especially if you finance. It all works out in the end.
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Old 12-10-2011, 02:12 AM   #69
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Might not get all the add-ons back but they do help sell it.
Not my experience. Trying to sell my LJ, everybody looks at the offroad mods and says "oh, it's been used offroad" and goes away.

Hey, I had your mentality too, I was wanting to upgrade my LJ to basically Rubicon+ level. But once I looked at regearing to 4.56, lockers, onboard air for the lockers, and some equivalent of the 4:1 transfer case (closest is the Atlas), we're talking about around $5,000 parts and equal amount labor because I don't have time to install all that 'cause I have, like, a real job and life and all and don't have time to do all that in any reasonable amount of time (I could fill my garage with Jeep for a few months and get it all done an hour per night, but I wouldn't be able to go wheeling!), and came to the conclusion that the best way to build a Rubicon was just to pay the price and buy one. And so I did .
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Old 12-10-2011, 02:17 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by jk'n
Rubi's are off road and off road is 4.1 it is that simple. In technically difficult situations you will want to be crawling in 4 low. If it is not being used off road then why pay the extra for the Rubi when a Sahara will do? If you go Rubi why would you kill your resale value by putting 3.73 on it? It makes no sense to me. Anybody purchasing a Rubi will be expecting 4.1 in it. It is one of the main features that is looked for in a Rubicon.
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Old 12-10-2011, 02:18 AM   #71
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I didn't want to build a Rubi though. I rather have the LSD for snow driving. The front locker really is the only feature my mods got me that a Rubi has. Regearing to 4.88 and air isn't on a Rubi anyways. Not to mention most mods like larger tires and many other mods most do, they would do it on a Rubi too which just increases it's cost to and are just as unlikely to pay off in a trade in. But if I did need a lower geared transfer case needed for rock crawling and rear lockers then a Rubi it would be.

Most mods people add to a sport or Sahara are not standard on a Rubi and most rubi owners do them also like tires, bumpers, onboard air and so on
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:34 AM   #72
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When you get the "cash to crawl" ratio right; everything always works better!!! Regardless of Sport or Rubi
Don
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Old 12-10-2011, 09:58 AM   #73
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I think the OP was scared off with all this nonsense. Based upon his claimed needs:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shireman
It will be my wife's so it will see more highway and hard pavement by far than off road
he doesn't NEED a Rubicon. The real question now is Sport or Sahara and of course 3.21 or 3.73.

I've never had my wife say "I wish we had that other gear ratio" and I'll take a wild guess that she is like most wives out there.

Just check out dealer stock, find one she thinks looks cute, test drive it, and buy it.
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Old 12-10-2011, 10:31 AM   #74
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Ratios1st2nd3rd4th5th6thRManual4.462.611.721.251.000.7974.062012 Auto3.592.191.411.000.83 3.162011 Auto2.841.571.000.69 2.21
So if you get a Rubi you better get a MT, or don't get a Rubi??????????
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Old 12-10-2011, 10:48 AM   #75
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So if you get a Rubi you better get a MT, or don't get a Rubi??????????
Oh, please explain. I can't wait to hear this!
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Old 12-10-2011, 10:55 AM   #76
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Old 12-10-2011, 11:29 AM   #77
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So many are saying if you do not get 4.10 gears,don't get a Rubi
Well MT final gear ratio in 4L is lower than AT
If you want to crawl- crawl slow (lol)
Just saying 4.10's are not the only reason to get a Rubi.
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Old 12-10-2011, 01:31 PM   #78
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^^ Certainly isn't and if you read the thread, there are others given. But the OP has to make a decision about whether or not to continue the purchase for the Rubicon with 4.1 or redo for 3.73. If it is a redo, he may even want to reconsider which model if he is not off roading it. There are so many features other than the ratio for off roading (we agree) that why pay for them if you are not going to use them. On the other hand, if the miles are mostly highway and you want zippy response and you are committed (OP) to getting the Rubicon then go for the 4.1 gears.
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Old 12-10-2011, 02:31 PM   #79
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I can't help but notice that some of the most vociferous proponents of 4.10s being the only way to go in a 2012 Rubi, on this thread and many others ..... don't have 2012's, and most don't have Rubies.

Maybe the OP should put more stock in the opinions of those who actually have significant driving experience in an auto tranny 2012.

I know for a FACT that the 2012 auto with 3.73s is geared plenty LOW, especially for the OP's intended purpose.

Just sayin'......
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Old 12-10-2011, 03:25 PM   #80
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Wow - impressive with79 posts so to answer one of the guys questions on where I was - I was reading all the posts! All good input. I probably align with BadTux particularly. One mpg here or there is no big deal and the extra zip in any vehicle is always a plus. I was concerned that the 4:10 might run the rpm's real high at highway speeds but it sounds like that is not the case. Always good to know you can add 35's with no mods. A little background - I had Jeeps for 20 years - a CJ 7 in the 80's and then the "new wrangler" in 90'. Eventually sold that too so it's been say a dozen years since I have had a Jeep and the no surprise that I wanted until they put a stronger engine (stock that is) and trany in the 2012. And the reality is that my wife is cool (a bit red at heart) so when time to change out a vehicle she suggested a Jeep and I was all over it. It will see if road at some heavy trails in Idaho in the future and until then it will see a lot of hard pavement use. Certainly would be bias to a Sahara for mostly road but we like the Rubi set up over the Sahara and incredible all terrain machine that has amazingly good road manners for a daily driver and hauling kids. Could certainly not go wrong with either the 3:73 versus the 4:10 - it is especially helpful to hear from the guys that are actually running a 2012 Rubi with the 4:10 and it sounds like the concerns about high rpm's on highway and noise are unfounded. Never hursts to have more punch off the line on road or for better crawl. Looks like sticking with 4:10 makes best move. Again, really cool to read all the excellent posts -clearly a good tread to toss out there.

Oh my wife wanted to add the following:
"I agree with BadTux, I want it to be fun, I want it to be fast off the start. It also comes down to how it looks - I am a girl, looks matter and I like aggressive look of the Rubicon - aggressive tires, black fenders, etc. And I could not get ALL the extras on a optioned out Sport. we are ultimately going to drive it a lot out west off road - we are in VA now"

Sorry for the "book" guys - Shireman
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Old 12-10-2011, 05:36 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by i82much

Technically speaking, it's not even close to that simple. Not. Even. Close.
Closer than. Not. Even. If. No. Mods.
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:02 PM   #82
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Closer than. Not. Even. If. No. Mods.
I dunno what to say other than ask a powertrain engineer or start studying for your mech e.
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:11 PM   #83
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When the dealer is ordering a Rubicon with auto transmission is 4:10 the standard option or does he have to manually change it to 4:10?
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:13 PM   #84
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When the dealer is ordering a Rubicon with auto transmission is 4:10 the standard option or does he have to manually change it to 4:10?
3.73 is standard with Auto and 4.10 is standard with manual.
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:29 PM   #85
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I dunno what to say other than ask a powertrain engineer or start studying for your mech e.
Interesting that Tom's hypothesis, which you say is 'not even close,' and may not comport with the consensus opinion of the power-train engineering community, seems to come pretty darn close to predicting what people are experiencing in real life.
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:30 PM   #86
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I was under the impression that it was the other way around. I had a manufacturer test drive Rubicon for a couple of days and it was an auto with 4:10.
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:31 PM   #87
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3.73 is standard with Auto and 4.10 is standard with manual.
Quote:
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I was under the impression that it was the other way around. I had a manufacturer test drive Rubicon for a couple of days and it was an auto with 4:10.
ranjr is correct.
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Old 12-10-2011, 10:00 PM   #88
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Quote:
Technically speaking, it's not even close to that simple. Not. Even. Close.
10% is 10%, right? What am I missing?

Again assuming no other mods such as larger tires on a 4.10 which would lessen the difference even more. Or larger tires on the 3.73 which would increase the difference even more.

We have to be talking auto vs. auto or manual vs. manual.

Please educate me. If this is not correct defend your position. I will listen and learn.

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Old 12-10-2011, 10:43 PM   #89
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10% is 10%, right? What am I missing?

Again assuming no other mods such as larger tires on a 4.10 which would lessen the difference even more. Or larger tires on the 3.73 which would increase the difference even more.

We have to be talking auto vs. auto or manual vs. manual.

Please educate me. If this is not correct defend your position. I will listen and learn.

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Old 12-10-2011, 11:35 PM   #90
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I know for a FACT that the 2012 auto with 3.73s is geared plenty LOW, especially for the OP's intended purpose.
.
And I know for a *fact* that the 2012 auto with 4.10's works just fine for the OP's intended purpose *also*. (Yes, I *do* have the 2012 auto with 4.10's, this isn't theoretical).

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