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Old 09-25-2011, 01:30 PM   #1
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Well, here you have it: (http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.p...6-Dyno-Results)

I saw this posted elsewhere in another thread here, but figure it deserves its own thread to be shuffled among the dozen or so "Should I get a 2011 or 2012" threads.

The summary of the dyno results, of a 2011 and 2012 each with automatic trans and 4.10s, appears to be the following:

(1) The 3.6 produces 30 more rear wheel hp than the 3.8.
(2) The torque is identical. Yes, in its stock form, the 3.6 is producing no more torque than the 3.8.
(3) To the extent "butt dynos" are suggesting greater improvements, they are likely a result of an improved throttle response program and better shift points by the new auto trans.
(4) The installation of a good set of headers and a tune result in the 3.8 logging substantially identical dyno numbers to a stock 3.6.

So . . . Is it right? Wrong? Discuss.

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Old 09-25-2011, 01:42 PM   #2
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This is great info. What this tells me is that there is something to be said for having a 6spd. and 4.10 gears.

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Old 09-25-2011, 01:57 PM   #3
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Wasnt that dyno done with a stock 3.6, but with a 3.8 with RIPP Long Tube headers? I believe it was.. and thats what accounted for the better torque performance you see in the 3.8L

So to your point of installing headers and a tune on a 3.8L to get the same dyno results as a 12' that is stock, seems plausable....

But for those that are debating a "11' or a 12' " You have to look big picture.

Add the RIPP long headers is $2000 + install.. That alone negates most of the cost saving incentives for the 2011. Then In Automatics, you are still stuck with the crappy 4 speed, vs the better new 5 speed. So on the street performance I bet the 3.6L would still smoke the tuned 3.8L..

Not to mention you're still going to eat 1 year of depreciation if you buy a 2011..

So, in my opinion the only way buying a 11' at this point in the game makes any sense is if you plan on staying with stock running gear, are tight for money, so you need the upfront savings, and dont need or want "on road" performance.

If you already own a 2011... Would I trade up?? Probably not..
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:03 PM   #4
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Is there any chart that compares the 3.6 with the 4.0? I raced a 2012 2-door Rubicon Yesterday in my local dunes (Glamis) up-hill and I beat him from start to finish. I am wondering if it was the driver or if the 4.0 is that much better.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:03 PM   #5
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Yup the graphic says 3.8 with headers and a stock 3.6...so they modded the 3.8 to get the same torque numbers
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:03 PM   #6
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. . . And, you can still put the same mods (headers/tune) on the 3.6 for even more performance.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:07 PM   #7
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Huh, first I've seen mention of "Ripp long headers" and of coarse I will need some more info.
Another 6 speed here with 4.10's and seems a regear with stock 32's will not be the best idea.
A link would be appreciated, I would like to know more
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Huh, first I've seen mention of "Ripp long headers" and of coarse I will need some more info.
Another 6 speed here with 4.10's and seems a regear with stock 32's will not be the best idea.
A link would be appreciated, I would like to know more
I guess they call them "long tube headers"


RIPP Mods Jeep Wrangler JK Long Tube Header Kit
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelRoad
. . . And, you can still put the same mods (headers/tune) on the 3.6 for even more performance.
Does the 3.6 even have headers. Thought I've read something about that. Could be Wrong and if I am ....
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasin Tail

I guess they call them "long tube headers"

RIPP Mods Jeep Wrangler JK Long Tube Header Kit
awesome.

Been debating a regear but there is no info
on someone going 4.88 with stock 32's and a 6 speed. I mean none and I've exhausted myself google searching.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:23 PM   #11
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Wow! I'm shocked that a company that sells superchargers and other "performance" mods for the old 3.8 engine would show a modern engine is not much better than an old minivan motor.

What's weird as far is performance (since that is point of the video) is that this lame new 3.6 Pentastar does 0-60 in 6.7 seconds vs. around 10 seconds in the 3.8. On my 3.8, if only I could spend $5k for a supercharger and $2k in headers plus installation and a voided Jeep warranty I could be almost as fast as a Pentastar.

Both are good engines. Hopefully, looking forward to eventually buying the Mopar aftermarket supercharger for the Pentastar. And keep my warranty.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:25 PM   #12
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NOPE-


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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Does the 3.6 even have headers. Thought I've read something about that. Could be Wrong and if I am ....
No headers, exhaust exit is integreted in each cylinder head, you can't change the exhaust path/flow-

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
awesome.

Been debating a regear but there is no info
on someone going 4.88 with stock 32's and a 6 speed. I mean none and I've exhausted myself google searching.
Come on kj, after all the reading, 4.88 is the miniomum gear you should choose and if you're gonna stay with your stock tires--get some popcorn and watch tv--don't change the diff gear ratios-

Smokemifyougotem

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Old 09-25-2011, 02:50 PM   #13
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The 3.6L VVT is capable of moving more air through it than the 3.8L due to the increased amount of valves and camming. Headers are helping the 3.8s cause but I'm sure there will be aftermarket exhaust and intake mods designed around the 3.6L eventually too thus putting you one or three steps ahead of the 3.8. A supercharger on a 3.6L should prove to be a power monster Oh, that whole integrated head bottle neck on the 3.6L will probably be alleviated by an aftermarket high flow head swap with a larger exhaust outlet, I'm sure it's coming
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:52 PM   #14
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I've been driving a 2011 for the last year, just traded up to the 2012 and sorry, I don't care what a dyno says this is a completely different vehicle. Maybe it's just the 5 speed, maybe the pentastar, maybe both (of course we're also talking about a STOCK pentastar against the 3.8 with drivetrain mods). All I know is in my 2011 I stepped on the gas, heard a lot of noise but it couldn't really push me back in the seat much (and that's with a CAI); the 2012 on the other hand REALLY pushes you back in the seat. Actually scared myself a bit yesterday on a freeway on ramp just nailing it to see what it would do, the thing MOVES now. Of course it still sure isn't a sports car, but man what an improvement...not sure about over the 4.0 though, I had a 2000 cherokee with the 4L in it and seem to remember even though it was only something like 190hp it moved pretty well too; kind of miss that 4.0 motor.

Haven't noticed much improvment on gas mileage (both 2011 and 2012 seem to average the same for me, 14mpg with 33 duratracs on it) of course the 2012 isn't broken in yet though, so...? Was hoping that would make up for the cost difference over years but looking less and less likely.

Anywho, to get to the power of the 2012 I would have easily needed to spend $5k+ and it would no longer be under warranty AND I'd still be stuck with the crappy 4 speed auto...over the long term that's about what it costed me to trade up to the 2012 and I have a year newer vehicle, 5 speed auto and only a few hundred miles on her (and the warranty). Plus - BONUS I now have color matched top and fenders which looks awesome with the black jeep - looks "complete" now.

...My two and a half cents...
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:59 PM   #15
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Nope kj, I tired ofit-and this guy ain't a newby


Quote:
Originally Posted by sdgmcdon View Post
I've been driving a 2011 for the last year, just traded up to the 2012 and sorry, I don't care what a dyno says this is a completely different vehicle. Maybe it's just the 5 speed, maybe the pentastar, maybe both (of course we're also talking about a STOCK pentastar against the 3.8 with drivetrain mods). All I know is in my 2011 I stepped on the gas, heard a lot of noise but it couldn't really push me back in the seat much (and that's with a CAI); the 2012 on the other hand REALLY pushes you back in the seat. Actually scared myself a bit yesterday on a freeway on ramp just nailing it to see what it would do, the thing MOVES now. Of course it still sure isn't a sports car, but man what an improvement...not sure about over the 4.0 though, I had a 2000 cherokee with the 4L in it and seem to remember even though it was only something like 190hp it moved pretty well too; kind of miss that 4.0 motor.

Haven't noticed much improvment on gas mileage (both 2011 and 2012 seem to average the same for me, 14mpg with 33 duratracs on it) of course the 2012 isn't broken in yet though, so...? Was hoping that would make up for the cost difference over years but looking less and less likely.

Anywho, to get to the power of the 2012 I would have easily needed to spend $5k+ and it would no longer be under warranty AND I'd still be stuck with the crappy 4 speed auto...over the long term that's about what it costed me to trade up to the 2012 and I have a year newer vehicle, 5 speed auto and only a few hundred miles on her (and the warranty). Plus - BONUS I now have color matched top and fenders which looks awesome with the black jeep - looks "complete" now.

...My two and a half cents...
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:06 PM   #16
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When this thread came up on the other forum, I just took at advertising the headers for the 3.8. Nothing wrong with that.

But I didn't see this as any type of input on the "should a get a 2011 or 2012" debates because it simply isn't cost effective to get the 2011 and add headers. But it IS a good way to add power to the 3.8 if you alredy have one.
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBOX
Nope kj, I tired ofit-and this guy ain't a newby

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What's that Jimbox?
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:16 PM   #18
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Oh, just the losing battle about the 3.8L "no power" syndrome-


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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
What's that Jimbox?
People just don't pay any attention to the "untruth" in that cliche, spoken by people that just don't care about the reasons forit and easy remedies-

Ciao

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Old 09-25-2011, 03:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBOX View Post
Oh, just the losing battle about the 3.8L "no power" syndrome-




People just don't pay any attention to the "untruth" in that cliche, spoken by people that just don't care about the reasons forit and easy remedies-

Ciao

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Nothing wrong with working with what you got, JIMBOX. Some of us are on the verge of buying and just want an already enhanced base to start off with.
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBOX
Oh, just the losing battle about the 3.8L "no power" syndrome-

People just don't pay any attention to the "untruth" in that cliche, spoken by people that just don't care about the reasons forit and easy remedies-

Ciao

JIMBO
People want the easy way out. Also having oodles of green, why not throw money away and trade up.

I'm fine where I'm at and just askin questions. Not sayin my jeepys got no power

Most that "trade up" and trash the 3.8
have an auto and don't want to regear, just want "power out of the box" for street use and have no desire to mod at all and that includes regearing.

Edit: and OO above confirms this ^^

I hear ya
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:37 PM   #21
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Good grief, I know that and I love the idea of a new vehicle, all


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Nothing wrong with working with what you got, JIMBOX. Some of us are on the verge of buying and just want an already enhanced base to start off with.
I've been trying to get across-is that there's nothing wrong with the 3.8L and the only thing GOOD about the new 3.6L is a 5spd auto-

New jeep owners (first one) buy the 2012 and immediately say they're the greatest jeep that ever came down the pike and they don't know SQUAT !!

I freely admit, that outta the box, it is a great jeep (2012)--I'm just tired of the unknowing hype !

Lets all get along in this sandbox- OK ?

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Old 09-25-2011, 03:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBOX
New jeep owners (first one) buy the 2012 and immediately say they're the greatest jeep that ever came down the pike and they don't know SQUAT !!
JIMBO
This is the truth ^^

Blame it on the Internet .
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:49 PM   #23
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Although, have you ever seen the cutaway pics of that 3.6L v6 ??


Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
This is the truth ^^

Blame it on the Internet .
It looks like something that Mario Andretti, would wanna drive on a sunday practice run !!

-------DYNOMITE-----


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Old 09-25-2011, 03:50 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBOX View Post
New jeep owners (first one) buy the 2012 and immediately say they're the greatest jeep that ever came down the pike and they don't know SQUAT !!

JIMBO
Why should it be expected that anybody know anything before forming an opinion based largely on the size of the money they spent. Of course new is always best. Right?
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:54 PM   #25
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Heh Heh. yeah--I guess-


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Why should it be expected that anybody know anything before forming an opinion based largely on the size of the money they spent. Of course new is always best. Right?
I gotta new 1961 "fuely" Corvette and it was phenominal, then in 1962 a buddy buys a corvette with the new 327-dual 4s and it would just "smoke" by little "fuely", so yeah---new is good !

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Old 09-25-2011, 03:59 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBOX
Although, have you ever seen the cutaway pics of that 3.6L v6 ??

It looks like something that Mario Andretti, would wanna drive on a sunday practice run !!

-------DYNOMITE-----

JIMBO
Ya, doesn't look "user friendly"
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:00 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Nope kj, I tired ofit-and this guy ain't a newby




JIMBO
Soooooo folks new to jeeps, actually just wranglers in my case, can't have an opinion ehh?

Nice way to welcome people to the wrangler community: "GET OUT!" ... Gotta love it.
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:14 PM   #28
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So, you drove a 2011 jeep for over a year and NEVER READ ANYTHING ABOUT curing the low mileage/low power output ???


Quote:
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Soooooo folks new to jeeps, actually just wranglers in my case, can't have an opinion ehh?

Nice way to welcome people to the wrangler community: "GET OUT!" ... Gotta love it.
You never questioned it, if you did and I didn't just jump in and give you an answer--I apologize-

This isn't a grammer school-we try to stay as level as we can, but guys like me (a couple), don't hand out candycanes, we expect some give and take from a new jeeper-

There are real knowledgable people on this forum and some that expect more than they get !!

Stick around, you'll learn who's/who !!!

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Old 09-25-2011, 06:30 PM   #29
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Quote:
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So, you drove a 2011 jeep for over a year and NEVER READ ANYTHING ABOUT curing the low mileage/low power output ???




You never questioned it, if you did and I didn't just jump in and give you an answer--I apologize-

This isn't a grammer school-we try to stay as level as we can, but guys like me (a couple), don't hand out candycanes, we expect some give and take from a new jeeper-

There are real knowledgable people on this forum and some that expect more than they get !!

Stick around, you'll learn who's/who !!!

JIMBO



*cough* grammar
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:00 PM   #30
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Did you ever notice the guys who used to post a lot more don't post as much anymore? I wonder why that is.........

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