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Old 09-15-2010, 12:26 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66

You're right. Why should I care what someone does to their Jeep? Just don't come on here crying after you tear up your drive line. Just ask Silvrevo, I'll be the first to say I told you so.
Because you're just trying to help, that's why . And it should the opposite, ifi damage it, I should post pics and tag you saying "you were right!". Then we can high 5 and I'll go get a new one

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Old 09-15-2010, 02:43 PM   #152
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If a group of women were having a prolonged debate, and a man walked in and said: "Boy, it must be that time of the month" that dude would have been tarred, feathered, and run out of the country.

A little defensive, are we? My comment was meant in jest....

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Old 09-15-2010, 02:50 PM   #153
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Because you're just trying to help, that's why . And it should the opposite, ifi damage it, I should post pics and tag you saying "you were right!". Then we can high 5 and I'll go get a new one
Chill out a little, dude.

You asked for people's thoughts and they gave them. I am willing to bet that if you went offroad with a bunch of southern, seasoned, 4WD-ing jeepers and questioned their advice when you asked for it, you would get a lot more ribbing than on this thread.

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Old 09-15-2010, 03:38 PM   #154
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I'm cracking up at the people in this thread that try to justify using 4WD in a downpour. Traction should be the last thing you should be concerned about in a downpour. I'd be more worried about getting water in the airbox or getting my distributor wet than traction.

In all my years of driving on roads, highways and interstates I've never heard anyone say 'Gee I lost traction I wish I had 4 wheel drive.' 99% of the time the problems people have are soaked distributor caps and airboxes.

Neither 4High or 4Low are designed for driving in the rain or any paved surfaces no matter what the weather conditions are--period. Stop trying to convince yourselves that you're doing the right thing. 4WD will not stop a vehicle from hydroplaning. Driving under the posted speed limit is what stops hydroplaning. If you're hydroplaning that means you're driving too fast--you need to slow down or pull over until the rain lets up if you're hydroplaning that bad because your tires are bald.

If you've been happily motoring down paved roads in 4 wheel drive and nothing has dropped to the ground sending sparks flying count yourself lucky. I've seen many guys' rigs sitting in the middle of the road waiting to be towed because they thought driving down the street in 4WD after mud bogging was the macho thing to do.

You don't have to take our word for it--read your owner's manual. Do your research in the internet. Or you can wait until you're stuck on the side of the highway with your drive shaft dug halfway into the asphalt. It's up to you.
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Originally Posted by daggo66

You just contradicted yourself. A wet paved street is not going to give the wheel slip required to be in 4WD. Couple that with tires that do well in wet conditions and you have a recipe for disaster.
Too funny.. I noticed the same thing.. However, some of the massive downpours/flooding we have seen in Atlanta. I will put me jeep in 4wd. Not the entire time, just in spots that look more threatening..
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:41 PM   #155
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Man, its getting HOT in this thread....testosterone levels are off the charts!

Is that a jeep thing.
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:59 PM   #156
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Ok guys Ive got to join the rain 4wd debate lol.

I dont see how your wheels are going to be slipping (loss of traction) in 2wd on wet /flooded pavement. Now if youre in a situation like a paved boat ramp , which is wet and youre pulling your boat from the water and youre wheels start to slip thats competely different. If youre driving down main street and theres inches of water on the road youre not going to need 4wd.

those of you using 4wd on mostly flat wet or flooded pavement. what do you think is making you lose traction to the point that youre wheels are going to start slipping , and dont say speed / hydroplaning because you should not be driving that fast in wet conditions

4wd is for when your wheels are slipping / losing traction while traveling at a slow speed, which is not going to happen on wet semi flat pavement. unless the water is deep and flowing then youve got a bigger problem and shouldve tried to cross lol
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Old 09-15-2010, 06:27 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by harwa004
Chill out a little, dude.

You asked for people's thoughts and they gave them. I am willing to bet that if you went offroad with a bunch of southern, seasoned, 4WD-ing jeepers and questioned their advice when you asked for it, you would get a lot more ribbing than on this thread.

Umm, I was being serious and complimentary. I think he has been awesome and is doing the right thing. No idea WTF you thought you read into that. Oh, and I am southern, but gotta start somewhere on the seasoned 4wd-ing.
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Old 09-15-2010, 06:38 PM   #158
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Umm, I was being serious and complimentary. I think he has been awesome and is doing the right thing. No idea WTF you thought you read into that. Oh, and I am southern, but gotta start somewhere on the seasoned 4wd-ing.
Whoops--my bad.
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Old 09-15-2010, 07:21 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by bobjenkins View Post
I dont see how your wheels are going to be slipping (loss of traction) in 2wd on wet /flooded pavement. Now if youre in a situation like a paved boat ramp , which is wet and youre pulling your boat from the water and youre wheels start to slip thats competely different. If youre driving down main street and theres inches of water on the road youre not going to need 4wd.
Furthermore, if you're hydroplaning, having your part-time four wheel drive engaged is NOT going to save you. If you're hydroplaning your tires are going to SLIDE I don't give a damn whether you have part-time, full-time, all-wheel drive or tank tracks from an A1 M1 Abrams.

Understand something--when a car hydroplanes that means the tires are riding above a film of water/motor oil/road grime etc (pictured below). There is no tire on planet Earth that can dig through a film of water once you're in the act of hydroplaning. There may be some tires out there that can make you less susceptible to hydroplaning but no tire has the ability to 'anchor' itself to the pavement like Spider-man on a skyscraper. Your only real defense against hydroplaning is to take your feet off of the brakes and accelerator, resist the temptation to steer the car and ride it out--hope that your car slows down enough to sink through the film of water and your tires make contact with the pavement again.



As a matter of fact, driving on wider mud/all terrain tires actually increases your chances of hydroplaning. Narrow tires have a better chance of resisting hydroplaning. So go get yourself a 60's Volkwagen Beetle and leave your Jeep at home during the hurricane season.
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Old 09-15-2010, 07:53 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by harwa004

Whoops--my bad.
And emphasis on the seasoned. I've been wheeling on and off since I been driving, but it has been just reckless fun and I've obviously been doing some really stupid stuff!
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:22 PM   #161
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You'd be surprised what the women on this forum know about Jeeps and driving off road.
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:29 PM   #162
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A stick is different than an auto transmission...

When ever you're wheeling your JK with an auto transmission you should always be in 4 low with the "OD off" and also make sure you keep it in "Drive". When in drive this allows the tranny to kick into 3rd gear, which is when the torque converter engages. When the torque converter is engaged your transmission temp will drop a bunch and keep it from over heating. Only keep it in 1st or 2nd gear when you really need to, like when you need to go down hill at a slow rate or need to crawl.

If you're just wheeling on some easy trails like dirt roads or driving on snow covered roads it's cool to just use 4 hi with OD off.

If you wheel on for an extended period of time in 4L or 4H and stay in 1st or 2nd gear only, you run a chance of overheating you transmission and can blow it up.
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Old 09-16-2010, 01:39 AM   #163
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Reading all the spirited discussion, it becomes obvious to me that a jeep needs a modern transfer case with a differential (lockable, obviously), and voila, keep the 4hi on all the time and no driveline binding ever. 2wd is a joke anyway without selectable hubs: your front diff and front driveshaft work all the time. Might as well give them something to do.

I'm wondering if aftermarket has such a transfer case.

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BTW: http://www.jeep.com/en/4x4/faqs/
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:07 AM   #164
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A full time system is a much weaker system and would never handle what the Jeep is designed to tackle. Save that for the IFS SUV's
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Old 09-16-2010, 09:04 AM   #165
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Yeah I only use 4wd in general for offroad I'm always in 2 wheel and I even try some trails or mud pits in 2 wheel to make it a little more of a challenge haha and then use 4 high to get unstuck when 2 wheel fails but when offloading I'm mostly alternating between 2 and 4 high only use 4 low if I know for sure that I'm gonna need it by looking at the obstacle
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Old 09-16-2010, 09:25 AM   #166
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Heh Heh, as soon as I get "Off-Road", I put the JKU in 4Hi-(ESP sw-off)-doesn't matter if its just a dirt road--

If I see a good hill/rocks/shale ahead, I goto 4lo as a precaution!!

Ain't these JK's great ??

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Old 09-16-2010, 11:44 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by zaitcev View Post
Reading all the spirited discussion, it becomes obvious to me that a jeep needs a modern transfer case with a differential (lockable, obviously), and voila, keep the 4hi on all the time and no driveline binding ever. 2wd is a joke anyway without selectable hubs: your front diff and front driveshaft work all the time. Might as well give them something to do.

I'm wondering if aftermarket has such a transfer case.

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You mean like every Land Rover ever made? I like my JKU a lot, but if they still sold the Defender in the U.S. that's what I'd be driving.
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Old 09-16-2010, 11:50 AM   #168
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A full time system is a much weaker system and would never handle what the Jeep is designed to tackle. Save that for the IFS SUV's
That certainly wasn't my experience in my Land Rover ... and what about the Quadra-Trac system in the old Jeeps - it used a differential and I never heard anyone say it was weak. Is the current Quadra-Drive 2 or Quadra-Trac 2 weak?

Seems like a chain drive (like the one in our Wranglers) would be a lot weaker than a differential ... but I'm not an engineer.
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Old 09-16-2010, 10:53 PM   #169
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This video shows good 2wd vs 4wd on various surfaces and talks about damage vs safety:

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Old 09-16-2010, 11:02 PM   #170
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That certainly wasn't my experience in my Land Rover ... and what about the Quadra-Trac system in the old Jeeps - it used a differential and I never heard anyone say it was weak.
It was extremely weak and not very well liked. It only lasted a few years. It was the forerunner of the current full time systems, but was very different.
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Old 09-16-2010, 11:42 PM   #171
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This video shows good 2wd vs 4wd on various surfaces and talks about damage vs safety:

Well crap, here we go again. More confusion, lol! So this expert suggests putting it in 4wd on any "potentially" slippery surface "just in case you need it" and actually addresses the wear to the 4wd system as "so negligible" it's not worth worrying about. Then he demos the difference between 2wd and 4wd on wet pavement, basically what some people have been arguing about whether to do in rain or not. I give up! LOL
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Old 09-17-2010, 01:42 AM   #172
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Well crap, here we go again. More confusion, lol! So this expert suggests putting it in 4wd on any "potentially" slippery surface "just in case you need it" and actually addresses the wear to the 4wd system as "so negligible" it's not worth worrying about. Then he demos the difference between 2wd and 4wd on wet pavement, basically what some people have been arguing about whether to do in rain or not. I give up! LOL
I think what he's saying is, if it's bad enough you're scared to drive over 90km/h due to conditions, it's safe (and a good idea) to use 4wheel drive..if it's raining lightly and you're going 120+km/h then use 2wheel.

edit: to be honest, I'm just a noob and looking for information, I thought the video's showing the traction gain were useful information though.
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:51 AM   #173
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The South African video was pretty good; it looks like the wet surface that he used at the end wasn't paved with anything you'd find in the States (if it was paved at all). Everything he said reinforced what I said earlier; use 4WD as soon as you get "offroad", both for safety and to keep the trails from getting torn up.
That's what it boils down to.
That, and don't spin your tires. If your tires are spinning, you're doing something wrong and should reassess your tactic. Could be the wrong gear, in 4-low when you should be in 4-high, didn't air-down, etc.

I was able to spend about 9 hours with Bruce and Dave from Overland Experts in two classes back in April at Overland Expo 2010.
Here's some footage from the Expo:


Here's some footage of Bruce:


Trust me. If you have a JK, don't use 4wd on pavement unless it's covered with snow and/or ice. And even then there are "yes" and "no" areas for its use.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:55 AM   #174
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It was extremely weak and not very well liked. It only lasted a few years. It was the forerunner of the current full time systems, but was very different.
Looks like it was used from 1973 through 1979, but various versions of the design have continued until today. The Jeep Web site lists the current version as the Quadra-Trac 2. After further reading, it looks like it also implements a chain in addition to a differential ... can't find a schematic though so I have no idea how.

Anyway ... that particular system might have been weak but your blanket statement that any full-time 4wd system is weak just doesn't hold up to reality. Hundreds of thousands of Land Rovers prove you wrong.

I would really like to see a full time system offered in the Wrangler. At the same time, we do get better gas mileage with the part-time system (even if the front drive shaft still spins) without sacrificing off-road performance.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:19 AM   #175
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Hundreds of thousands of Land Rovers prove you wrong.
How many? Anyone I ever knew who owned a LR spent more time in the shop than on the road.
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:01 AM   #176
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How many? Anyone I ever knew who owned a LR spent more time in the shop than on the road.
Why do you think I sold my Discovery?

But as for the full time 4wd ... I've never known anyone to blow a T-Case in a Rover. I know I beat the heck out of mine and even after chewing up a C/V joint climbing a tough hill and taking chunks out of the spider gears in my rear diff my T-Case oil looked brand new when I changed it ... no metal shavings at all, and absolutely no change in functionality. That full time 4wd system is definitely one of the things Land Rover got right.

The only reason the Wrangler T-Case is still a part time system is ... that was the original military specification in WW2. Somebody in the military added something along the lines of, "with a way to disengage the front drive shaft as needed" and seventy years later we're driving around with a part time T-Case.

I'm not saying it's a bad design ... on the contrary - part-time has many merits. But full-time 4wd does too, and is not weaker.
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:25 AM   #177
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Why do you think I sold my Discovery?

But as for the full time 4wd ... I've never known anyone to blow a T-Case in a Rover. I know I beat the heck out of mine and even after chewing up a C/V joint climbing a tough hill and taking chunks out of the spider gears in my rear diff my T-Case oil looked brand new when I changed it ... no metal shavings at all, and absolutely no change in functionality. That full time 4wd system is definitely one of the things Land Rover got right.

The only reason the Wrangler T-Case is still a part time system is ... that was the original military specification in WW2. Somebody in the military added something along the lines of, "with a way to disengage the front drive shaft as needed" and seventy years later we're driving around with a part time T-Case.

I'm not saying it's a bad design ... on the contrary - part-time has many merits. But full-time 4wd does too, and is not weaker.
I never said anything about a TC. The weak link is the center differential that equalizes the front and rear wheel speeds. taking chunks out of the spider gears in my rear diff THAT's what I'm talking about.
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Old 09-17-2010, 01:35 PM   #178
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I never said anything about a TC. The weak link is the center differential that equalizes the front and rear wheel speeds. taking chunks out of the spider gears in my rear diff THAT's what I'm talking about.
The center differential is inside the transfer case in a full time system ...

And yea, we had a pretty hard core day that day. I got a lot more disciplined with the skinny pedal after blowing a $400 axle assembly though and a lot more liberal with the winch!
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Old 09-17-2010, 01:54 PM   #179
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A full time system is a much weaker system and would never handle what the Jeep is designed to tackle. Save that for the IFS SUV's
I am gonna have to disagree bro. I have owned a land rover discovery, and that transmission was not weak by any means. Land rovers are crap now because they have lost their way in terms of what the vehicle was designed for, and rich british smucks wanting more comfort than off road prowess. The full time 4wd system has many benefits, including the fact that you can spend more time navigating terrain, and less time worrying about when to shift between 4hi and 2wd.
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Old 09-17-2010, 01:57 PM   #180
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Why do you think I sold my Discovery?

But as for the full time 4wd ... I've never known anyone to blow a T-Case in a Rover. I know I beat the heck out of mine and even after chewing up a C/V joint climbing a tough hill and taking chunks out of the spider gears in my rear diff my T-Case oil looked brand new when I changed it ... no metal shavings at all, and absolutely no change in functionality. That full time 4wd system is definitely one of the things Land Rover got right.

The only reason the Wrangler T-Case is still a part time system is ... that was the original military specification in WW2. Somebody in the military added something along the lines of, "with a way to disengage the front drive shaft as needed" and seventy years later we're driving around with a part time T-Case.

I'm not saying it's a bad design ... on the contrary - part-time has many merits. But full-time 4wd does too, and is not weaker.
My disco II had 170,000 miles on it and still shifted like it was brand new. You could hammer the gas and still couldn't feel any rough shifts. The secondary components on land rovers are what is junk. Like the abs module that is shared with h2's, complete crap. The 4.0 engine, transfer case, and transmission are far from garbage.

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