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Old 08-29-2014, 08:25 PM   #1
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4WP says...

Don't need regearing, axle, or driveshaft work if I'm putting on 35's on 17" wheels, and a 3.25" lift. It's a once a month wheeler, it is my DD. I mainly do rock crawling. No mudding. What is everyone's opinion on this? It's 95% paved road use...

2013 JK sport AT
321 gears
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:33 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres11132 View Post
Don't need regearing, axle, or driveshaft work if I'm putting on 35's on 17" wheels, and a 3.25" lift. It's a once a month wheeler, it is my DD. I mainly do rock crawling. No mudding. What is everyone's opinion on this? It's 95% paved road use... 2013 JK sport AT 321 gears 16K miles
I have exact same set up:

2013 JKU, 3:21 axle ratio, Auto trans, 315/70/17 tires, 2.5" lift.

Do mild off roading once in one or two month.

I haven't done regearing, axle work or driveshaft work. Been running like this for a year and half.

I have no complaints. I'm happy

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Old 08-29-2014, 09:07 PM   #3
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Manual or auto? I'd think about regearing to 4.56 if it's sluggish. My driveshafts are just waiting to go busto on a 2 door w/ 2.5" lift. You may not need them now, but I'd save for them shortly. I've seen an AEV 3.5" on a 2 door w/ stock shafts and the DS angles were brutal.
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Old 08-30-2014, 01:03 AM   #4
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You will hate life at that gearing.

You should armor up your axles, especially the front, to run that big of tire.

Your driveshafts will be living on borrowed time. Doing them now will not leave you waking up wondering every day "Do I feel lucky?"

You will need a new tire carrier or to remove your back seat and ratchet the spare in cargo. If you put it on the stock carrier, that will be living on the same borrowed time as your driveshafts.

Why a 3.25 lift? You do not need it to run 35s. A 2.5 lift is fine for 35s.

Does whoever is giving you this info actually own and wheel a Jeep? I suspect not.
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Old 08-30-2014, 10:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmaggi2 View Post
Manual or auto? I'd think about regearing to 4.56 if it's sluggish. My driveshafts are just waiting to go busto on a 2 door w/ 2.5" lift. You may not need them now, but I'd save for them shortly. I've seen an AEV 3.5" on a 2 door w/ stock shafts and the DS angles were brutal.
Auto trans.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mommymallcrawler View Post
You will hate life at that gearing. You should armor up your axles, especially the front, to run that big of tire. Your driveshafts will be living on borrowed time. Doing them now will not leave you waking up wondering every day "Do I feel lucky?" You will need a new tire carrier or to remove your back seat and ratchet the spare in cargo. If you put it on the stock carrier, that will be living on the same borrowed time as your driveshafts. Why a 3.25 lift? You do not need it to run 35s. A 2.5 lift is fine for 35s. Does whoever is giving you this info actually own and wheel a Jeep? I suspect not.
I have a friend who's running 35's on 321 in his JKU and it didn't seem too sluggish. What do you mean by armor up my axles? Sorry relatively new to jeeps haha. I will have the spare removed and put on a roof rack. 3.25 lift mainly for looks I'm not gonna lie, I didn't like the 2.5 kits I couldn't tell they were lifted. I do need clearance though also. And the driveshaft/gears will EVENTUALLY (before January) be upgraded, I was just wondering if I can last that long with minimal off-road use.

Thanks All for input so far
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Old 08-30-2014, 10:43 AM   #6
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They recommend upgrading the front drive shaft on the 12's and up because the stock is so big there is a chance of it rubbing and ripping the boot at full articulation. I run 3.21's with my 35's and with the programmer to tell the tranny it has bigger tirs on it drives just as good as stock. My brother has a stock '14 JKU
Strengthening the axles by truss/sleeve/gussets is just to help save the axle. My good friend has had 35's on his stock dana 30 front axle for a few years and is pretty rough on it. He has broken u-joints but thats it.

Stock axles will perform, if you drive accordingly
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Old 08-30-2014, 10:48 AM   #7
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By armoring up your axles, she means axle sleeves, c gussets and possibly trussing. Axle sleeves go inside your axle tubes and increase the strength across the axle housing from side to side. C gussets are small metal supports that are welded on the Dana C's that can bend when wheeling/running larger tires. Last, welding an axle truss on the top of the housing gives further strength to the axle housing. Artec industries has a full kit minus the sleeves
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:03 AM   #8
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You want it, go for it!
January is only 3 months away.
Let them know they pick up the sales tax, and subtract 3% for cash.
That's still a good deal for them, as their pricing is pretty high.
Definitely better pricing available out there than 4WP. That's all money you can use for other mods, and I think you'll find it's significant.

You can mail order the whole package, and save more. Any competent repair shop can do the install. It's tedious, but very simple work.
Put that savings towards your re-gear (if you decide to do it).
Figure out what lift you want, and PM Ryan, if he doesn't reply to this thread. Two more posts and you'll qualify for their forum member discount (IIRC that's 5%).
Discount Tire is another forum sponsor, who can get you a real good deal on tires and wheel packages. Check out the tire and wheel subforum.

Good luck with this. Looking forward to seeing pictures of your lifted Jeep, even if it's only climbing a speed bump (for now).
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:24 AM   #9
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I have 35s, 2.5" lift (actual lift 3.25), and 3.21 gears.

I do mostly paved road driving.

No complaints.
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:36 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifty219 View Post
They recommend upgrading the front drive shaft on the 12's and up because the stock is so big there is a chance of it rubbing and ripping the boot at full articulation. I run 3.21's with my 35's and with the programmer to tell the tranny it has bigger tirs on it drives just as good as stock. My brother has a stock '14 JKU
Strengthening the axles by truss/sleeve/gussets is just to help save the axle. My good friend has had 35's on his stock dana 30 front axle for a few years and is pretty rough on it. He has broken u-joints but thats it.

Stock axles will perform, if you drive accordingly
That's what my friend does, 321's and programmer for his 35's and he likes it. I've honestly never heard of any of that stuff for axles. looks like research continues now! thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bouche03 View Post
By armoring up your axles, she means axle sleeves, c gussets and possibly trussing. Axle sleeves go inside your axle tubes and increase the strength across the axle housing from side to side. C gussets are small metal supports that are welded on the Dana C's that can bend when wheeling/running larger tires. Last, welding an axle truss on the top of the housing gives further strength to the axle housing. Artec industries has a full kit minus the sleeves
thanks for the info, I definitely want to protect my JK... so looks like i'll be looking into all of this before Jan comes around!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comanche Scott View Post
You want it, go for it!
January is only 3 months away.
Let them know they pick up the sales tax, and subtract 3% for cash.
That's still a good deal for them, as their pricing is pretty high.
Definitely better pricing available out there than 4WP. That's all money you can use for other mods, and I think you'll find it's significant.

You can mail order the whole package, and save more. Any competent repair shop can do the install. It's tedious, but very simple work.
Put that savings towards your re-gear (if you decide to do it).
Figure out what lift you want, and PM Ryan, if he doesn't reply to this thread. Two more posts and you'll qualify for their forum member discount (IIRC that's 5%).
Discount Tire is another forum sponsor, who can get you a real good deal on tires and wheel packages. Check out the tire and wheel subforum.

Good luck with this. Looking forward to seeing pictures of your lifted Jeep, even if it's only climbing a speed bump (for now).
I use 4WP because they're the local off-road "jeep expert" shop to me. but yes, i agree their prices are high, and if I knew more about parts and how they work together and what combination of parts I can use to get a desired effect, I wouldn't even go to them, I'd just order everything online. who doesn't love when the big brown truck drops off parts?! I do most of the work on the Jeep myself, as long as I feel comfortable doing it. I've never welded so obviously will leave that to someone who knows what they're doing. I had no idea about a forum member discount haha but sounds useful when expenses goes into the thousands... funny you mention Discount Tire, I used to work there. Here's the plan for the JK so far:
3.25" lift
35" pro comp xtreme MT2's on 17" bullethole alloys
rock sliders
roof rack, with spare tire mount
6 square LED lights, 2 on each side of roof rack except front

this is all in immediate future (less than 3 months) but many more mods in the long term. not to mention it will have 360 degree red/white emergency lights, and 2 100W speakers for sirens as it's also my response vehicle for the fire dept.

It's currently got SB front bumper, XRC#9.5 winch, and 24" led bar on the bumper.

anyways thanks all for info!
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:55 AM   #11
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Here is a guy who put on a 3.5 lift, just .25 inch more than you are contemplating. Choose your lift kit, drive shafts and mechanic carefully!

Please Help

Be careful with roof racks and get one that ties to the frame rather than roof. The roofs of JKs are not designed to bear weight. Also consider you already have a high center of gravity and are putting that weight up high.

Internet Wrangler Rule Number 1: Just because somebody says "I did" or "You can" does not mean it is a good idea. When your Jeep either breaks or performs poorly they will not be the ones there to fix ot for you.

On gearing, my previous Jeep was 3.73. My son had a Jeep with 3.21. We both had factory 32 inch tires. I drove both of them. The difference was obvious. The 3.21 was at about its limit with factory tires. I would definitely look to at least 4.10 with an auto to pull 35s.
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Old 08-30-2014, 12:31 PM   #12
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Anytime 4WP says anything about parts application in an all encompassing way, be suspicious.

Virtually anyone at an aftermarket parts retailer can tell you to buy certain things and that the common learned knowledge won't apply. They are in the business of selling parts and may be inclined to sell you a combination of parts that will maximize their profit or fail and ensure that you'll be back to buy more parts trying to fix the original issues that the aftermarket parts caused.

You will have shortened drive shaft lives. There is no debate about it. They may last 40,000 miles with prudent highway driving or they may fail with only 2,000 miles and while you are in the wilderness. It's your gamble to make.
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Old 08-30-2014, 02:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres11132 View Post
Don't need regearing, axle, or driveshaft work if I'm putting on 35's on 17" wheels, and a 3.25" lift. It's a once a month wheeler, it is my DD. I mainly do rock crawling. No mudding. What is everyone's opinion on this? It's 95% paved road use...

2013 JK sport AT
321 gears
16K miles
I don't know who you talked to, but this person should not be working at 4WheelParts if he's giving out that kind of info. 3.21 gears are WAY too tall for a 35. Hell, they're too tall for a 32. For 35s on a daily driver, I'd say run 4.10s or 4.56s. You need a new driveshaft on anything in the 3-3.5" range.

My typical JK build looks like this:
3.5" Rubicon Express kit
Front driveshaft
35s and 17s
Programmer

With this setup, you can roll out of the parking lot for quite a while without any issues. The programmer will do a lot to get you back up to speed, but at the gear ratio that you've got, you're gonna want to re-gear quickly, if not at the same time as your lift.

I know our prices can be steep, but we have a 90 day labor guarantee as well as offering a full-coverage 5yr/60k mile parts and labor warranty that will cover you even if you break something while wheeling, not to mention some pretty friendly and knowledgeable sales guys (at least in my store).
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Old 08-30-2014, 03:28 PM   #14
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joeami, I take it you work at 4WP?
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Old 08-30-2014, 03:56 PM   #15
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It's not a question of "need." Will your Jeep run with that set up. Sure. For how long? Who knows. If you never disconnect and wheel moderately, you may never have a problem. Or you might. 3.25 is right on the cusp of "need." As for the gearing, that's a personal thing. Some guys don't mind 3.21's and 35's. Some guys can't change gears fast enough.

No offense to 4WP, but always take anything someone trying to sell you something says with a grain of salt. If saying you don't need that stuff to get you to pull the trigger on a lift and tires is what it takes to make a sale...

But around here, consensus is that at 3 inches and over you need a drive shaft in 2012+ models. Beefing up the axle is up to you. C-gussets and sleeves are insurance but not absolutely necessary. Plenty of Jeeps with 35's run with stock axles. Opinions are mixed. As for gearing, I'd say most folks would recommend you upgrade to 4:10s or 4:56's. Needed, no, but you'll have more stock like performance with new gears.

Next question, why 3.25? A 2.5 inch lift is all you need to run 35's. You won't need a drive shaft, just a $30 exhaust spacer kit. And why 35's. 33's would still look great, wheel great and though still too much for 3.21's but not as bad as 35's would be. Save wear and tear on your axles too and if you go light, say a 22 pound wheel and either Duratracs or BFG AT's, you're right at Rubicon stock wheel and tire weight meaning you probably can put off buying a tire carrier. Even stock Rubi wheels and tires from Craigslist or ebay would work with spacers.

Just a thought.
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Old 08-30-2014, 04:06 PM   #16
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joeami, I take it you work at 4WP?
Yes. I've only been with the company a couple of months, so don't take my word as authority, but I will be up front and honest and share whatever information I learn by being in this position.
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Old 08-30-2014, 04:10 PM   #17
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No offense to 4WP, but always take anything someone trying to sell you something says with a grain of salt. If saying you don't need that stuff to get you to pull the trigger on a lift and tires is what it takes to make a sale...Even stock Rubi wheels and tires from Craigslist or ebay would work with spacers.

Just a thought.
Sadly, some sales people just don't have ethics or a conscience. I would much rather lose a customer over a $500 drive shaft versus dealing with the headache when that customer comes back in, yelling at me because he busted his drive shaft and got stuck on a trail. Because at that point, it becomes the salesman's fault, no matter what I told the customer before he purchased the lift.

Also, I'll have some stock rubi wheels for sale shortly... Getting my 285s installed on Tuesday
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Old 08-30-2014, 04:35 PM   #18
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joeami, I'm not sure which one you're at, but I'll vouch for the one in Van Nuys. I don't want to go into all the details about my experience there, but everything didn't go as planned. But I will say this, that shop is run by honest folks and they backed up their promises.
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Old 08-30-2014, 04:55 PM   #19
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So what I'm getting out of this, is that I need to put down the money and just protect my investment. It is my DD so this is the smartest thing to do. Looks like I'll be putting off all the mods for a few months until I can afford everything at once. I'll be adding the DS, axle reinforcements, and 4.10 gears to the list. For now my JK will tackle Uwharrie stock tomorrow. Which it's done before so I'm not worried!
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Old 08-30-2014, 05:24 PM   #20
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I don't know how you people can tolerate running 35s with 3.21s. Unless you live in Kansas where the biggest hill is a speed bump in the Walmart parking lot, there is no way!

I live in Colorado and right now I'm running a 3" lift with 33s and have the 3.21s. I wish I was more educated about the gearing when I got my Jeep. The 3.21s suck ass with the 33s on the hills here. I will be regearing mine very soon so I can go up to 35s. The previous posters are absolutely correct about adding sleeves, gussets, etc. to reinforce the axles. If you're going to build your rig, do it right. It'll save you a lot of headaches and expenses in the future.
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Old 08-30-2014, 06:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres11132 View Post
So what I'm getting out of this, is that I need to put down the money and just protect my investment. It is my DD so this is the smartest thing to do. Looks like I'll be putting off all the mods for a few months until I can afford everything at once. I'll be adding the DS, axle reinforcements, and 4.10 gears to the list. For now my JK will tackle Uwharrie stock tomorrow. Which it's done before so I'm not worried!
That is wise! So many people get all taken in by the "I want a big lift and huge tires and to look cool" thing and do not realize what is involved. Sure lots of folks do it half arsed anyhow, but when their luck runs out - they are the ones posting up their "help me fix it" posts. A Jeep is a big investment, and safety should always be paramount-not just asking to be stranded on a trail somewhere. We had a guy in our local club grenade a D35 in a TJ last night on a trail. With a 2 inch lift and 33 inch tires.
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Old 09-01-2014, 12:23 PM   #22
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Alright so after hours of searching, I can't find any "kits" for axles, or gears.. I find the parts individually, but I'd like to get the whole kit type package so I know for sure that the parts will work together. Anybody know where I can search for one? I'm looking for axle protection, 4.10 gears, and a driveshaft.. Thanks!
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Old 09-01-2014, 03:03 PM   #23
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Currie Enterprises CJ Axle Parts

This is one of the best options out there for a full assembly. You'll still have to get your driveshaft separate, but there's tons of companies out there that are making them. My suggestion would be to use the manufacturer of the lift kit for the driveshaft. If I were to be selling it, I'd recommend Rubicon Express all the way around, but there's plenty of other great kits out there. Teraflex is another great company that you can buy components from.
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Old 09-01-2014, 09:10 PM   #24
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When I spoke to AEV about a lift, the 3.5" has no recommendation for drive shaft replacement or exhaust clearance compensation. The salesman said they do it all the time. Not an issue. 4WP might have just been repeating this sort of information from lift manufacturer.
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:46 PM   #25
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Glad to hear 3.21 gears aren't that bad on newer jk's with 35s. I have 3.73s and was worried, but sounds like I should be alright
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:54 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMcHale View Post
When I spoke to AEV about a lift, the 3.5" has no recommendation for drive shaft replacement or exhaust clearance compensation. The salesman said they do it all the time. Not an issue. 4WP might have just been repeating this sort of information from lift manufacturer.
And when it fails, it's on your dime and they will just shrug their shoulders...

Perfect example: Please Help


I can't imagine 3.21's and 35's together. I thought there was a big enough difference going to 3.73's on 32's that I had to go to another state to get what I wanted.

My 4WP isn't too bad, but they like to sell what they like to sell...
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:49 PM   #27
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Like I said earlier, I run 3.21's with 35's and have no problems and dont find it bad at all. Hwy I average 22.5 mpg setting cruise at 65mph but mind you we have non ethanol fuel up here There is a big power difference from e10 to regular fuel
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:06 AM   #28
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Sit down, take some time, and use the "search" tool on the forum to search 3.21s.Yes, there are people on 35s with 3.21s who are fine as posted above. Yet few can say that there wasn't a performance change- because there will be. To some that change is acceptable- most find it objectionable. I was not looking to make my JK drive like a sport car on 33s/35s - I found the engine/tranny lug (upshift early and then drop to 1100 RPMs) unacceptable on 3.21s. If you want your Jeep to maintain the SAME performance you had on stock tires you will need to re-gear with 35s. 4.10s if you are worried about MPG. 4.56s for everything else- performance, crawl, fun. Anythng over 3" generally means your Front DS is on borrowed time. Do read the AEV lift thread. But how much time varies greatly and it's easy enough to keep an eye on it until you actually need to replace it. Of course- worse cast it breaks on the trail. Otherwise if you are a DD with infrequent off roading you may be fine. Sleeves, gussets are debatable. Even to me- and I am S & G'ed and have RCV front axles. But I rock crawl some rough stuff, use rig armor/beef to hide my bad driving and am accident prone. So I overbuild. If it were a DD I would not do all this. But you'll still want a tire carrier. Or.... Get beefy 33" MTS, a 2.5" lift and spend your $$ on other cool mods. While I re-geared even with 33s- most people are happy. So 33s likely skip the re-gear ($1000-$1500), geometry issues and therefore certainly the DS ($ 350-$500) and definitely axle up-grading ($350+).

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