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5.25" subwoofers in lower dash

37K views 166 replies 47 participants last post by  brianbunge 
#1 ·
I finally finished my little experiment of installing some Tang Band 5.25" subwoofers in the lower dash enclosures. This applies to 2015 and up Wranglers only as they can accept 3.5" co-ax speakers in the upper dash locations to cover the remainder of the audio spectrum up front.

One thing I've always enjoyed with both car and home audio is to see just how much I can 'get away with'. It's easy to get good bass in any vehicle by simply tossing a pair of quality 10" subs into a decent enclosure and feeding them a lot of power. I find it more fun to try and get good sound out of unconventional designs and to do it as inexpensively as possible. I used to compete in and win autosound comps way back in the late 80's early 90's in the lowest amp class possible (I think it might have been under 90 watts but it could have been under 100...it's been a LONG time).

My requirements for this project were pretty simple. Everything had to look bone stock and I wasn't going to mount anything on the floorboards...it's a jeep and subject to water/mud/etc. Once I realized I could mount 3.5" co-axials in the upper dash and we have sealed speaker pods in the lower dash, I knew I was going to try to find some subs to fit. Enter the Tang Band W5-1138SMF 5.25" sub. I probably could have fit the 6.5" TB W6-1139SI because it's neodymium magnet would have allowed it to fit, but $40/speaker is a lot easier to swallow than $90/speaker :).

I used the stock 6.5" speakers as a template to make MDF mounting rings. I knew from test fitting the TB's a couple of weeks ago that I would have to offset the speaker to get them to fit. I used #8x1/4" tee-nuts to mount the TB's to the rings and the stock screws to mount the rings to the enclosures. There is foam weatherstripping btw each for a good seal. I also cut the molex connectors off the stock speakers so I could reuse them to make things more plug and play. The enclosures were peel-n-sealed (poor man's dynamat) and stuffed with dacron.

Since I am sticking with the stock 130 HU I new I would have to use a LOC. Yes, I could have used a high quality DSP unit; but, the goal was to do this as inexpensively as possible. I chose the Scosche LOC90 because it has both a remote turn on to feed to the amp along with a remote bass control. The remote bass control is paramount as the bass in Wranglers is dramatically different when open air as opposed to when buttoned up. The last thing you want to have to do is monkey with your Amp's gain every time you take on/off the top. Anyway, the LOC 90 is only $20 at Walmart and is working as it should; turning my amp on/off whenever it senses a signal to its inputs. It is simply velcro'ed to the top of the amp (not the best idea for the amp's heat dissipation but I'm willing to risk it).

Now the amp. I knew that I wanted it as hidden as possible and NOT on the floorboards. Investigation of possible spots led me to the kick panel area on the driver's side. There is a very small space btw/behind an aluminum bracket that I figured I would be able to mount a tiny amp. I figured I would start with something dirt cheap as this was kind of a proof of concept experiment. So I found the SSL SMCM 200 amp. It's a piece of crap I'm sure but for $30 it meets the requirements: small enough to fit, could handle 2 ohms, and had a low pass xover. It claims to put out 100 watts rms into 2ohms and the TB's are rated at 40watts rms each so it should suffice. When it bites the dust I'll replace with the NVX MVPA1.

So, how does everything sound; pretty freaking great. When installing, I did the passenger side first and listened a bit with just a single sub. It was at that point that I knew this was going to work. With just a single TB sub playing it was obvious a true sub was now in the mix. Mind you this is with my Jeep wide open but in a garage. After installing the driver side I was pretty blown away my just how much bass I could get out of the TB's. I'm still playing around with the xover setting but it generally takes me a week or two to settle on what sounds best.

TB sub vs stock 6.5":
Bumper Automotive exterior Luxury vehicle Vehicle Auto part


TB sub mounted in passenger side enclosure:
Subwoofer Loudspeaker Audio equipment Car subwoofer Computer speaker


4 wire carrying signal to LOC and then back to speaker:
Automotive exterior Grille Bumper Vehicle Auto part


Amp/LOC mounted in driver's side kick panel area...I need to clean up that wire mess :) :
Electronics Technology Vehicle Car Electronic device


Remote bass control mounted under steering wheel:
Auto part Automotive exterior Vehicle
 
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#3 ·
Nope, not at all. A google search on 'JK wrangler front speaker install' will show you to get to the speakers. The passenger side is super simple. I can get the speaker pod out of that side in about 5 min assuming I have all the tools with me. It's the driver side that's a pain as you don't have the gaping hole where the glove box is to remove the speaker pod. You have to bend the lower dash plastic back an uncomfortable amount to be able to remove the pod.

The other PIA is all the connections at the amp/LOC. I pre-wired everything with M/F insulated spade plugs so that all I would have to do is plug everything in when it came time to actually install the amp/LOC. The difficulty is that there's not much room to work down there. It's not as if I can get both arms/hands in there even with the seat all the way back and me lying on my back. As such I had to plug many of them together one-handed which isn't the easiest thing to do. On a test bench I could have plugged the 8 connections together in about 30 seconds....one handed contorted on my back, it took about 10 frustrating minutes :).
 
#5 ·
Great, but I wonder how the sound quality is with the 3.5" speaker carrying the entirety of the mids and highs. I know those little Tang Bands play pretty high but I would've figured that you'd want a tweeter at least. I really like this build though! I think I will probably try to stuff a Sundown SA-8 in the center console, some Dayton mids in the dash (I have a pair of 8's laying around but like hell if they're gonna fit, gotta see what else Dayton offers), and large format tweeters up top. I like to see "unconventional" stuff though!
 
#6 ·
The 3.5's are plenty loud enough to handle everything with their 400hz 1st order x-over now that I have the TB subs in play. Because the subs have their own level control and can easily handle everything below 200hz, I've now got the stock HU's bass level set at -2. It used to have to be around +4 or even +6 to hear any bass whatsoever out of the stock lower dash speakers. Now that the bass level is at -2, the 3.5" speakers as well as the Alpine SPS-610c's in the soundbar no longer have to work very hard. I can turn up the volume much higher before anything starts to distort.

You might be thinking there is a sound gap btw the 400hz HP x-over of the 3.5" speakers and the sub's LP x-over but there isn't. The subs roll off at 12dB/octave while the 3.5" at 6dB/octave and the combined overlap fills the gap. FWIW I used test tones to set the LP x-over to make sure there wasn't a gap. I can't say exactly what the LP x-over is set at as it's a variable knob that I set by ear/test tones and not by actually looking at it. Plus, it's not as if you can trust the markings on them anyway :).

You definitely won't be able to fit any sort of 8" speaker in the pods. The problem is their shape where one side intrudes into the enclosure limiting the diameter of the speakers magnet. That's why I had to mount the 5.25" TB's off-center in them. The TB 6.5 sub with neodymium magnet should fit since the magnet's physical size is small.

My only complaint right now is that the JL 3.5" are a tad bright. I think this has more to do with their location than anything. I'm thinking a full range such as this (Dayton Audio ND91-4 3-1/2" Aluminum Cone Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm) might actually work better with its natural high end roll-off.
 
#9 ·
Kinda funny, I actually go back a little farther than that... I was in it before CD's, we were using cassette decks from Concord. Anyone remember Dolby C? And, it was just Fosgate before Rockford joined up. Linear Power had just come out as I was winding down. How about Orion? That was some good stuff back then. How about the Nakamichi deck when it came out? Everyone wanted one...


The 3.5's are plenty loud enough to handle everything with their 400hz 1st order x-over now that I have the TB subs in play. Because the subs have their own level control and can easily handle everything below 200hz, I've now got the stock HU's bass level set at -2. It used to have to be around +4 or even +6 to hear any bass whatsoever out of the stock lower dash speakers. Now that the bass level is at -2, the 3.5" speakers as well as the Alpine SPS-610c's in the soundbar no longer have to work very hard. I can turn up the volume much higher before anything starts to distort.

You might be thinking there is a sound gap btw the 400hz HP x-over of the 3.5" speakers and the sub's LP x-over but there isn't. The subs roll off at 12dB/octave while the 3.5" at 6dB/octave and the combined overlap fills the gap. FWIW I used test tones to set the LP x-over to make sure there wasn't a gap. I can't say exactly what the LP x-over is set at as it's a variable knob that I set by ear/test tones and not by actually looking at it. Plus, it's not as if you can trust the markings on them anyway :).

You definitely won't be able to fit any sort of 8" speaker in the pods. The problem is their shape where one side intrudes into the enclosure limiting the diameter of the speakers magnet. That's why I had to mount the 5.25" TB's off-center in them. The TB 6.5 sub with neodymium magnet should fit since the magnet's physical size is small.

My only complaint right now is that the JL 3.5" are a tad bright. I think this has more to do with their location than anything. I'm thinking a full range such as this (Dayton Audio ND91-4 3-1/2" Aluminum Cone Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm) might actually work better with its natural high end roll-off.
Have you checked to see if you can roll off the 3.5's a tad lower and do your own 6db filter? You could do a 12db filter and go even lower if you wanted... And cheap to experiment.
 
#17 ·
I feel like the 3.5 kickers I have in my dash are 90% of what I'm hearing anyway, so balancing that out with a set of subwoofers below sounds tempting. Very tempting.
That's what I found when I had the JL TR350-CXi's in the upper dash along with the stock speakers in the lower dash...and they are no where near as sensitive as the Kicker 3.5's. I would suggest unplugging the wiring harnesses from the backs of the lower dash speakers and then giving your system a good listen. This will let you know exactly what those 3.5" Kickers can/can't do. Only takes a couple of seconds to unplug them to do this experiment.
 
#19 ·
Working out of town right now, but I may very well take you up on that.

Once my 2016 comes in, I plan the audio upgrade fairly quickly, I hope. Now I may do it in stages and not worry about the subs right away. So it might be an even better comparison.

As mentioned, I'm not a sub type guy. But can see the benefit w/soft top. But I absolutely don't want to take up cargo room.
 
#21 ·
What kind of music do you listen to?
How is the sound stage, and presence?
Are you still using the speakers in the sound bar?
Mostly Metal/Rock/Blues...pretty much anything that's musician based so no pop or rap.

The front speakers' upper dash locations allow for most sounds to sound as if they are coming from above the dash out in front of you. The problem is that the driver's side speaker is really close so it is overly pronounced. An aftermarket HU with time delay and other features could help this.

Yep, the soundbar contains a pair of Alpine SPS-610c components. When the top's off I can barely even tell they are there. With the top on I set the fader 2 ticks to the front.
 
#25 ·
I want to keep the option open of doing subs in the lower dash, but might not do it immediately. So I'm not sure what to do now, amp wise....

Found good local installer. Plan on letting him install the Pioneer 4100 NEX and run the 2 USB and HDMI extensions to my center console. Also plan to have him install a small 4 channel amp behind the dash (probably the marine JL Audio, or maybe an Alpine).

I'll install the JL Audio upper dash speakers w/bass blocker smyself. As well as the Alpine components in the sound bar (this way I can also add pollyfill to my hearts content).

So my question is, if I don't change out the lower dash speakers at all or just put something there to get me by, the 4 channel amp will take care of everything (dash and sound bar).

But, if I want to add sub's in the future, I'd need a separate amp for them, correct? So that I could control the output via, my head unit. Does it make much sense to get a 5 channel amp now? I'm thinking it is easier to hide, behind the dash, two separate amps. So I could just add a small 2 channel amp for the subs later on, correct?
 
#28 ·
It might be cost prohibitive, but something like the Kef Uni-Q drivers (especially if you can find raw drivers) might be a perfect mix.

Also, for a full range driver this one looks a bit better, at least in response above 10k, while still being pretty affordable...
Tang Band W3-1364SA 3" Bamboo Cone Driver
Did you say KEF??

I still have a pair of original 103.2 in Rosewood that sound amazing. My son is actually using them.

I'd love to throw in some Uni-q's...might have to look for that.
 
#27 ·
Awesome install! No problems with rattling or other noises? I would imagine that's a lot for that area to handle.
 
#35 ·
Not with 99.9% of music. The speaker pods are mounted quite solidly to the metal dash structure. When testing everything out with music specifically designed to have ridiculous amounts of bass, the lower driver's side dash panel beneath the steering wheel rattles. If it affected 'real' music, I would probably dynamat the backside of it.
 
#29 ·
This may not be entirely in line with this thread, but I got the Alpine system in my '16 which is pretty good for factory. However I don't like the 130 head unit. Was thinking of upgrading that and while I'm at it putting in the JL Audio XD700/5 amp to power all the speakers and a sub, replacing the soudbar speakers with Hertz HCX 165.4 and the front speakers with the Hertz HSK 165.4 with the teeters mounted on the dash. I have an old 12" JL audio sub I can reuse. Thoughts?
 
#30 ·
I hate to be the one to ask but if you planned all those upgrade - why did you check the box for the Alpine system?
 
#37 ·
Yes, dynamat and other such products can make a difference. It simply adds mass to whatever surface you apply it to. I use it whenever there is a specific need to. Say you install some speakers in a car door and now the door is rattling on certain notes. Dynamat can help to tame this.
 
#38 ·
My requirements for this project were pretty simple. Everything had to look bone stock and I wasn't going to mount anything on the floorboards...it's a jeep and subject to water/mud/etc. Once I realized I could mount 3.5" co-axials in the upper dash and we have sealed speaker pods in the lower dash, I knew I was going to try to find some subs to fit. Enter the Tang Band W5-1138SMF 5.25" sub. I probably could have fit the 6.5" TB W6-1139SI because it's neodymium magnet would have allowed it to fit, but $40/speaker is a lot easier to swallow than $90/speaker :).
]
After loving the JL Audio and Alpine Components, I think I'm just going to jump to the subs on the lower dash.

Would going to the 6.5" make it more plug and play? Meaning would that eliminate the need to make a mounting ring? I mean I know building a couple isn't a huge deal, but I'd rather not. It was just so darn easy to mount those 6.5" Alpines in the sound bar. No mod at all (except a couple washers).

Don't really feel the need for the 6.5" for more bass, just trying to keep the install easy. Would think most shallow mount 6.5" subs would fit easily, yes? Any other suggestions on something that would work well?
 
#39 ·
It's the magnet diameter that is going to limit what 6.5" subs you can use, not the depth. You can always buy mounting adapter rings if you don't want to make your own. The only 6.5" sub that I thought would work is the TB W6-1139SI thanks to its use of a neodymium magnet. It also costs ~$90 as opposed the ~$40 ferrite magnet 5.25" TB sub. There is a ferrite magnet 6.5" TB sub but I'm almost positive the magnet would get in the way. When researching what subs to use, I never found a sub from any of the normal autosound mfgs that looked good to me....at least not for this particular project. The price/performance of the TB 5.25's really can't be beat.
 
#42 ·
That's just the 6.5" woofer from a set of Polk components. There are many 6.5" woofers from component sets that would fit. You can buy the 6.5" woofers from the Alpine component set you are using in the soundbar for ~$40 on Ebay. None of these speakers are going to produce the kind of bass you will get out of the TB subwoofers, however. They simply aren't designed to be used as subs and don't have the T/S params that would make them work well as such.
 
#44 ·
Ok, you talked me into it. I'm just going to order some rings $12 off Amazon and a pair of those Tangs. Everything else I've looked at is either bigger or much more expensive.

And besides, trusted you on the JL Audios and the Alpines and those worked great. Besides I'd like to try to have all in for upcoming road trip in a couple weeks.

And your right, of course...a pieces of MDF is cheap and take only minutes to make if needed.

Ordered...rings and subs right at $100 shipped. Should be here by the 15th.
 
#48 ·
Ok, you talked me into it. I'm just going to order some rings $12 off Amazon and a pair of those Tangs. Everything else I've looked at is either bigger or much more expensive.
Are you putting in the HU/amp at the same time, or perhaps just the amp? I ask because the TB's off the stock HU's power would be quite underwhelming. It's completely safe to run them this way until you add the HU/amp, just don't expect much out of them at that point.
 
#49 ·
That's where I always go and that's where the Tang Band subs are coming from. I looked at the Dayton Audio DCS165 6.5" subs but I'm pretty sure their magnet structure is too big for the dash pods. Plus the TB's (both the 5.25" and 6.5" neodymum version) model better for the 2.5 liter enclosure.

I'm getting the itch to do some more experimenting. I'm considering glassing some custom A pillars to house these 3" full range speakers: Dayton Audio RS75-4 3" Reference Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm.
 
#46 ·
I'm actually extremely happy with the JL Audio + Alpine components. That alone is a very nice sound. Very accurate, very balance. But does lack fullness and depth. Now part of that is the speakers, part no real power and part the receiver.

But playing with things, it really doesn't make sense to put a full range speaker in the lower dash. The fullness and "pop" of subs there should really complete the set up. Along with some real power from and amp.
 
#58 ·
For the speaker connection inside the pod itself, I cut the Molex off the stock speaker. I then connected the TB's leads to the cut-off Molex so that it's plug-n-play inside the pod.

Outside of the pod is a bit different. I'm using a LOC, so I have to run the factory HU's L/R signals from the pods to the LOC and then back to the pods from the amp. If you look at the first post you can see a picture of the four wire cable I used to to so. I used M/F spade plugs...I can disconnect from the four wire and just reconnect directly to the pod if desired.

So yes, I did run new wire from the LOC/Amp location to the PODs. Since you are going to be using and aftermarket HU and amp you don't have to worry about using four wire as your amp will be fed line level inputs from the HU. You will have to run conventional speaker wire from the amp to the pods.

As for amp location, I'm kicking myself :). Had I done a little more research, I would have used (or at least attempted to use) the location Jeep does for the factory amp in the upgraded system. Pull off that panel directly under the steering wheel and you will see a metal bracket that is held on with two screws. Remove that metal bracket and behind it is your amp location :facepalm:
 
#60 ·
Started w/drivers side. Actually got the pod out w/out much difficulty. 15 min. Lots of play in the dash...no really issue. Only minor one was they must have used something on the bottom pod screw. It was a bit tougher.

Bad news....step/mounting rings I got from Amazon are a big no go. Going to have to make them. Dug out my saw....but need some wood and a good clean blade. I'll pull the passenger side out first.
 
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