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Old 02-21-2013, 02:10 PM   #571
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Inner boot

So my Jeep (2010 2dr) kicked me out of first violently a couple times and I was a little nervous but figured the extreme cold was at fault...except both the Jeep and I have seen worse cold and this has never been an issue...anywho, problem progressed to popping out of third and fifth as well. Decided it was time to look into it because I ended up in an accident. Google lead me to this thread. After a good read I headed into my dealer to have it looked at. He knew about the first gear problem (had fixed many) and had heard of boot problems but never seen one until I came in. Pulled off the boot and realized the inner boot was floating free and crooked. No longer covered under warranty (75000km on the Jeep) but no charge if I wanted to try to put her back together myself. Seems the last dealer may have caused this problem while checking out a clutch issue for me since the top boot was barely being held on when we pulled it off (2/3 clips broken). Drives like before now with no issues. Just gotta find a way to get the top boot to stay down since I'm cheap and don't want to pay the $50 for a new one. Thinking double sided tape lol. All this to say putting the inner boot back in place seems to have solved the problem and sometimes you will run into someone who knows what they're talking about!

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Old 02-21-2013, 02:27 PM   #572
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Funny, I have the same problem. My '07 JKU started doing this about 6-months ago and it never occured to me to search my own forum.

Good info here


Edit: Not sure if it is somewhere in this thread (couldn't find it), but I was able to find the actual service bulletin on the interwebs: https://cda.extra.chrysler.com/icon/...s/2100110A.pdf

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Old 02-28-2013, 10:20 PM   #573
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Updated info on my quest to find another mechanic to do the work described in the TSB (i.e., replace 1st gear & 1-2 synchro assembly).

On my 3rd non-dealer shop to look at it today. They said they simply cannot get parts anywhere. Everything related to this tranny is on backorder from Chrysler. He interpreted this to mean they know they have a problem with it and aren't making new parts until they come up with a better answer.

They even tried calling around to their supplier that does remanufactured trannies and those are even unavailable right now.

Don't know if that's all legit but it seems to make sense. Just find it hard to believe that the parts are now seemingly impossible to come by.

So it's either A) wait until parts come available or B) shell out $1700 to have the dealer do it (assuming they still have parts in stock when no one else does?????).

What a bummer.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:31 PM   #574
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Inquiry

USAntigoon,
Read the dialogue in this thread..you seem to know technical aspects of this issue and the Jeep manual trans components....in your opinion, could this issue cause the clutch to fail? You mention 1/2 shift fork, dogteeth, etc. Would this issue cause 'teeth' to be broken, i.e. the 'thunck' that drivers mention throughout, could it be 'teeth' being broken off? I'm assuming this may be some type of gear wheel with cog teeth, is this the flywheel (Jeep part CR466102AA)? The fork, could this be a Jeep part described as a fork assy (fork assembly, Jeep Part # CR68089073AA)? Could this 'popping out of 1st gear' issue have caused problems sever enough that numerous clutch parts need replacement, i.e. besides fork assy above, the clutch kit, two bearing, and flywheel?
Your input would be greatly appreciated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by USAntigoon View Post
I responded in another forum to a similar issue as follows
The 1/2 synchronizer sleeve (in which the 1/2 shift fork rides) moves towards first gear sliding over the synchro hub starting the synchronization process (synchro ring will be indexed and the cone will start picking up the cone of the first gear) Once the speed is equalized the coupler teeth will engage.. These teeth flanks have a back taper to assure positive engagement lock whilst transferring torque..
JOG (jump out of gear) can be created with following main conditions...
1) not enough spline (dogteeth) back-taper on synchro ring and coupler..(Manufacturing quality)
2) not FULL engagement during the shift cycle.. (shifting too fast or shifter boot interference)
3) the first gear has a triple cone synchronizer system and the floating synchro ring might drag too much (particularly in very cold weather..)
4) shift rail detent ball springs too weak (broken or worn out)

Everything has to be in balance to avoid "hard" shifts, (you still want to shift smoothly from 1-2 etc..) on one hand and to avoid JOG on the other hand..

The negative back taper is designed to create a lock whilst torque is transferred, as soon as you coast (reduce torque) the lock becomes less and with a bump it might do a JOG .

Just do a slow shift (be sure it is fully engaged) into first and get moving, keep a constant acceleration and maintain a slight load on the shifter towards second gear.. You will feel the "bite" from the back taper...if something is not right you will detect an easy slide out..

Bring the acceleration to almost coast and try this again..with a slight force the shifter can be moved out of first..

Just trying to give some background music..
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:48 AM   #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeplw View Post
USAntigoon,
Read the dialogue in this thread..you seem to know technical aspects of this issue and the Jeep manual trans components....in your opinion, could this issue cause the clutch to fail? You mention 1/2 shift fork, dogteeth, etc. Would this issue cause 'teeth' to be broken, i.e. the 'thunck' that drivers mention throughout, could it be 'teeth' being broken off? I'm assuming this may be some type of gear wheel with cog teeth, is this the flywheel (Jeep part CR466102AA)? The fork, could this be a Jeep part described as a fork assy (fork assembly, Jeep Part # CR68089073AA)? Could this 'popping out of 1st gear' issue have caused problems sever enough that numerous clutch parts need replacement, i.e. besides fork assy above, the clutch kit, two bearing, and flywheel?
Your input would be greatly appreciated.
I see that USAntogoon hasn't posted on the forum for over 2 years so he may not chime in with a reply.

I don't have near the technical knowledge of this issue that it sounds like he has, but I think it would take something more severe than popping out of gear to break the splines. I could see extra wear happening but not complete breakage.

Welcome to the forum by the way.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:06 PM   #576
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I have never had a manual transmission car that didn't do this at least once. Even my S2K did it twice (once it was 8 degrees and the car was cold, once it was all my fault).

However, to the few people who observe it regularly on their Jeep, I agree that if you're sure it's not operator headspace and timing, then it's an anomaly.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:53 PM   #577
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I just got back from the dealer after having this issue fixed.

I want to start out by saying that I have no idea what it would have cost because I got an extended warranty when I bought my rig used a couple of years ago.

Everyone has reported their Jeep popping out of gear as the weather got colder, in my case the opposite has happened. Whether it's just that the gears have gotten more worn or if the heat made everything more flexible, I don't know but as the day time temps hare have been over 100 degrees for the last few weeks, my rig would pop out of 1st up to 6 times a day.

The first time I took it in, last month, they couldn't duplicate it. As it started happening more often, I took it in again and they said they would finally fix it. They dropped the transmission and completely replaced first gear and the 1-2 synchronizer assembly in accordance with the tech bulletin. They said the gears were definitely worn.

It felt good on the drive home, we'll have to see how it is in the long run.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:58 AM   #578
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getting tsb work now, can this cause other problems if left unfixed?

I've had similar issues found throughout this post. I have a 2008 jeep wrangler sahara 2d with the jog issue. After a week the dealership claimed there was no problem with the transmission the first time I took my jeep in for this issue. This time they claimed they got the tsb after I had brought my jeep in the first time, but claim I had around 40k miles so the work was not covered then or now by the warranty or powertrain (can't confirm date/mileage since paperwork is in my jeep atm). By reading usantigoon's posts i knew my issue wasn't a cold condition issue that gets fixed if you shift slower until the vehicle warms up. Not sure I have much confidence in the tsb fix just yet, but keeping my fingers crossed. Will keep you posted on the work as I have more information.

My main concern and my original reason for getting service done this time around was a power issue, which i had originally thought was a timing issue which turns out to be a broken piston mount (not sure of exact name of the part, kinda dazed when mechanic said he might have to replace the entire engine before he opened it up to see how extensive the damage was). Was wondering if 3 years of letting a jog problem go (since they told me it wasn't a problem) could cause the piston mount to break. Also wondering why the broken piston and the tsb repair is not covered by the powertrain warranty. Can anyone confirm that the 1-2 synchronizer repair is in fact covered/not covered for sure. Will update with more specific information after I talk to the mechanic today.
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:46 PM   #579
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My powertrain coverage includes this: copied it from the contract.




Quote:
Covered Engine Components
  • Cylinder Block and all Internal Parts
  • Cylinder Head Assemblies
  • Timing Case, Chain, Gears, Belts and Sprockets
  • Harmonic Balancer
  • Oil Pump
  • Water Pump and Housing
  • Intake and Exhaust Manifolds
  • Flywheel with Starter Ring Gear
  • Core Plugs
  • Valve Covers
  • Oil Pan
  • Turbocharger Housing and all Internal Parts
  • Turbocharger Wastegate Actuator
  • Supercharger
  • Fuel Injection Pump and Injectors (Excluding clogged Injectors)
  • Seals and Gaskets for Listed Components
Covered Transmission Components
  • Transmission Case and all Internal Parts
  • Torque Converter
  • Flex Plate / Drive Plate
  • Transmission Range Switch
  • Transmission Control Module
  • Bell Housing
  • Oil Pan
  • Seals and Gaskets for Listed Components
  • Manual Transmission Clutch Parts are not covered at anytime
The piston is an 'internal part of the cylinder block'
the synchronizers are an 'internal part of the transmission case'

Why wouldn't they be covered?

I am assuming of course that you have the same or similar warranty that I do.
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:52 AM   #580
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Sorry for the delay in updating my information. Just spoke to the dealership today, had trouble with my cell all week. The engine failure was the #1 piston ring and rod assembly. Could this be caused by the issue described in tsb 21-001-10. Also any advice on how to handle the denied power train warranty would be much appreciated. Should I talk to the dealership or go straight to jeep customer care?

Also thanks for the reply jmb6420. And thanks for all the diagnostic and technical information USAntigoon, I hope retirement life is treating you well.
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Old 08-16-2013, 11:36 AM   #581
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jwill: Are you the original owner of your 2008 Sahara? If so, you should have a lifetime powertrain warranty.

I am the second owner of my 2008 jeep, but purchased the lifetime powertrain service contract shortly after I purchased the jeep. It was 3 1/2 years old and had about 32K miles on it when I purchased the contract. (the contract cost a lot less than the tranny rebuild)

I can't see any how the JOG issue would cause any engine problems, so the two are unrelated IMO.

Good luck, keep us informed.
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:44 PM   #582
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Update on work

I had to take Jeep back second time. Now the jog issue is affecting reverse and new engine noise when in neutral and clutch disengaged. The dealership claims noise from clutch and not covered by warranty from last work done(tsb repair and piston rework). Also claim having jog issue in reverse is not fixable according to Chrysler. Never go to champion dealership in Indianapolis, they have been screwing me over since I bought the Jeep new. Took it in at 547 miles for simple fix, and they washed it with window down. To cover their tracks they vacuumed the seat an ripped the fabric, which is how I noticed the water damage. Ever since never trusted them, sorry about the rant btw.

Was informed by Chrysler my warranty void as of 1/17/2013 since I missed the 5 year maintenance. Originally took Jeep into dealership 7/2010 for the jog issue.now the dealership claims I have to go thru Chrysler to get the money back the dealership charged me for the tsb fix.
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Old 04-15-2014, 11:46 AM   #583
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Hello, I just bought a 2008 JK CRD with 60,000 miles on the clock. Some times it jog the 1st gear. Spoke with the dealership and they had no idea. Is there any official Chrysler/Jeep action on that issue?

Thank you.
Jim
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:58 PM   #584
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Thank you for sharing this info.
Does that means that this is the resolution of fixing the 1st gear jog?

Thank you,

Jim


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