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Old 11-05-2009, 07:53 PM   #61
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I finally got a call from the dealer my tranny and shift tower were in. They put it in in 24 hours! I was pretty impressed. I have had the jeep back for 3 days now and it has not happened yet. If fact the gear box feels much smoother and popes into gear no problem. But....

...Now the tranny makes a vibratting rattle whenever i accelerate. WTF. This they cannot deny as it happens every time and is getting louder every day. I'm only assuming that must have skipped a torque spec on a bolt and something is loose. I wonder what else they rushed on?

Keep trying guys; no company should be able to get away with selling a product that has this many defective ppm.

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Old 11-05-2009, 08:23 PM   #62
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I know the following is off topic, but it illustrates the Quality mindset of their workers..Vehicles built without front wheel spindle nut.....
That's why we need more robots in these plants and become more cost competitive...

Vehicle Make / Model: Model Year(s):
CHRYSLER / 300 2009-2010
DODGE / CHALLENGER 2009
DODGE / CHARGER 2009-2010
DODGE / CHALLENGER 2010
Manufacturer: CHRYSLER LLC Mfr’s Report Date: OCT 29, 2009
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 09V420000 N/A NHTSA Action Number: N/A
Component: WHEELS:LUGS/NUTS/BOLTS
Potential Number of Units Affected: 12674
Summary: CHRYSLER IS RECALLING CERTAIN MODEL YEAR 2009 THROUGH 2010 PASSENGER VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH REAR WHEEL DRIVE. THESE VEHICLES MAY HAVE BEEN BUILT WITHOUT A FRONT WHEEL SPINDLE NUT.
Consequence: WHILE DRIVING, A TIRE AND WHEEL SEPARATION COULD OCCUR INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.
Remedy: DEALERS WILL INSPECT THE TIRE AND WHEEL ASSEMBLY AND IF FOUND WITHOUT A SPINDLE NUT IT WILL BE REPAIRED FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN DURING OCTOBER 2009. OWNERS MAY CONTACT CHRYSLER AT 1-800-835-1403.
Notes: CHRYSLER RECALL NO. J27. OWNERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION’S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV .

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Old 11-06-2009, 07:46 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by thewJEEPsand View Post
I finally got a call from the dealer my tranny and shift tower were in. They put it in in 24 hours! I was pretty impressed. I have had the jeep back for 3 days now and it has not happened yet. If fact the gear box feels much smoother and popes into gear no problem. But....

...Now the tranny makes a vibratting rattle whenever i accelerate. WTF. This they cannot deny as it happens every time and is getting louder every day. I'm only assuming that must have skipped a torque spec on a bolt and something is loose. I wonder what else they rushed on?

Keep trying guys; no company should be able to get away with selling a product that has this many defective ppm.
I had the vibration issue only when shifting from 3rd to 4th after I got my new transmission installed. The service manager said that it sounded like the torque converter breaking in and to watch it - if it got worse, to bring it in. That has been a week or so. Since then the vibration has almost disappeared. FYI.
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:32 AM   #64
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I had the vibration issue only when shifting from 3rd to 4th after I got my new transmission installed. The service manager said that it sounded like the torque converter breaking in and to watch it - if it got worse, to bring it in. That has been a week or so. Since then the vibration has almost disappeared. FYI.
Manual transmissions don't have torque converters...Just proves again the "Technical Quality" of service we are getting.
Again, as I stated before, educate yourself as much as possible before talking to your friendly dealer... That's why I like these forums because it has a tremendous resource of knowledge..

Is your vibration during the clutching cycle from 3 to 4, or are you already in 4th gear with clutch released..??
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:36 AM   #65
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The vibration would begin right at the very end of letting out the clutch and continue for a couple of seconds as I accellerated in 4th gear. You could actually watch the shifter shake/vibrate as well as feel it. Occassionally it did the same transitioning from 4th to 5th.
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:14 AM   #66
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Looks like it is related to the 4/5 synchro area..
I suggest you do a slow shift to 4th, release the clutch and wait a second before you throttle up..See whether the vibration still exists.. This is "remote" diagnosis of course... The fact that the shifter shakes (keep your hand on it to observe whether you feel a wobble coming from the transmission..
The 4/5th gear has the same synchro ring or sleeve in which the fork rides..If this wobbles then there seems to be an excessive free play issue. Keep in mind the gears are helical and once they see load they will tend to move to one side. (that is why you like to limit the axial play.) Gears shutter under load transfer with free play.. I am running ahead now..(I wish I could drive it and feel it)
So let's see what you find...The clutch disc has damper springs, but if they were the culprit then you should have this in all gears..
Hope this helps..

p.s Did they rebuild the transmission or did they installed a brand new one..?
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Old 11-06-2009, 11:46 AM   #67
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Looks like it is related to the 4/5 synchro area..
I suggest you do a slow shift to 4th, release the clutch and wait a second before you throttle up..See whether the vibration still exists.. This is "remote" diagnosis of course... The fact that the shifter shakes (keep your hand on it to observe whether you feel a wobble coming from the transmission..
The 4/5th gear has the same synchro ring or sleeve in which the fork rides..If this wobbles then there seems to be an excessive free play issue. Keep in mind the gears are helical and once they see load they will tend to move to one side. (that is why you like to limit the axial play.) Gears shutter under load transfer with free play.. I am running ahead now..(I wish I could drive it and feel it)
So let's see what you find...The clutch disc has damper springs, but if they were the culprit then you should have this in all gears..
Hope this helps..

p.s Did they rebuild the transmission or did they installed a brand new one..?
Like to make a correction.. 4/5 is NOT on the same synchro ring.. (3/4 is) The rest of the reply still stands as I was trying to look into the 4th gear movement under load (because of the helix) once there is too much axial free play..
(I am getting older I guess...)

I wish I had the assembly drawings of the NSG370...
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:24 PM   #68
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Like to make a correction.. 4/5 is NOT on the same synchro ring.. (3/4 is) The rest of the reply still stands as I was trying to look into the 4th gear movement under load (because of the helix) once there is too much axial free play..
(I am getting older I guess...)

I wish I had the assembly drawings of the NSG370...
The problem was definitley between gears 3 and 4. Seems to be almost nonexistant now though. How would you explain the diminishing vibration? Yes it was a brand new transmission - not rebuild.
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Old 11-06-2009, 06:05 PM   #69
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I spoke to a service rep at a local dealer today over the phone and he said that the one time i had the 1st pop out was likely because i didn't engage the shifter entirely into 1st gear. he went on to explain how there should be two clicks when I shift into first and to be sure i completely shift into first gear. He also mentioned that it could be a linkage issue or something hanging up on the shifter that caused it. He basicly told me to make sure i shift completely into 1st and if it happens again they will probably have a tech ride with me sometime. I kinda figure though if it';s happening as rarely as 6000 or so miles then it probably won't just happen when i take a service rep for a ride. I guess I'll just watch and take note if it happens again.

On a side note how much vibration should I feel in the shifter and accerlation petal when fully seated in a gear? I'm no motor head so I don't know if the vibration i'm feeling in the shifter and witnessing is normal or more than normal. Can someone help me out with that as well?

Thanks
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:18 PM   #70
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The problem was definitley between gears 3 and 4. Seems to be almost nonexistant now though. How would you explain the diminishing vibration? Yes it was a brand new transmission - not rebuild.
Good question...New transmission, new gears which are being meshed under load for the first time...Gear teeth edge burrs, .. who knows... Just give it a few thousand miles to evaluate..Thanks for the feedback...
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:26 PM   #71
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I spoke to a service rep at a local dealer today over the phone and he said that the one time i had the 1st pop out was likely because i didn't engage the shifter entirely into 1st gear. he went on to explain how there should be two clicks when I shift into first and to be sure i completely shift into first gear. He also mentioned that it could be a linkage issue or something hanging up on the shifter that caused it. He basicly told me to make sure i shift completely into 1st and if it happens again they will probably have a tech ride with me sometime. I kinda figure though if it';s happening as rarely as 6000 or so miles then it probably won't just happen when i take a service rep for a ride. I guess I'll just watch and take note if it happens again.

On a side note how much vibration should I feel in the shifter and accerlation petal when fully seated in a gear? I'm no motor head so I don't know if the vibration i'm feeling in the shifter and witnessing is normal or more than normal. Can someone help me out with that as well?

Thanks
The double click feelings is indeed correct.. first resistance is the shift rail detent and the second click is the shift coupler ring engaging into the gear dog teeth, that click feeling is the positive lock effect of the backtaper.. Defective back taper and/or bad/deformed forks might deprive you from that second click..
IN the shifter you will always "feel" a vibration The clearance between the fork pads and the coupler ring groove is not much, hence the fork side is always riding somewhat against the side of the coupler. You will feel the teeth meshing in each other....
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Old 11-07-2009, 12:03 PM   #72
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VIBRATION SOURCE IDENTIFIED:

Well the vibration kept getting worse so i made an appointment to bring the truck in on saturday. After driving to lunch from work, i and a co worker noticed the noise getting even loader. So when i got back to work i looked underneath the truck and what do i see:


6 of the 8 were only held in place by the rubber collars, the other two were still threaded but loose.

Dealer claims vibration was from a loose bolt on the exhaust manifold not the drive shaft bolts, which is bull sh*t since i watched and listened to the rattle as they loaded it on to flat bed.
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Old 11-07-2009, 05:23 PM   #73
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Dealership is responding positively to the vibration issue. I understand that people make mistakes, and at least they are accepting full responsiblity.

Just wanted to add that 'note' as i was a little upset when i posted earlier.

Cheers.
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Old 11-08-2009, 05:49 AM   #74
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those who are still experiencing the jog, read back on the 2nd page and try taking the shifter boot of and leave it off for a few days, take note if it jog again. I feel that "we" as a community will get a quicker fix for this by providing as much info to jeep as possible. I have been driving my JK now for the past few weeks with out the boot installed and have gone from having it jog anywhere from 4-8 times a day, to now it has done it to me about 2 times in the past weeks, and im sure that those times were my fault, it is still a bit firm to shift the new trans and i feel that i didnt engage it properly. As i posted before, i have the email for a jeep state rep that claims that apart from my jeep, they know of no others that are experiencing this, i you would like to pm me i can provide you with his email so that you may put your hand up and be counted. Also dont think that you are alone, here is a post from the ausjeepoffroad forum with what we are going thru over here.

6 spd TX woes - AUSJEEPOFFROAD.COM
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:43 AM   #75
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5,000 miles and I have never had this happen. You sure you are putting it all the way into gear? I notice sometimes shifting into reverse that it does not want to go all the way into gear. I either let it roll a little, or shift it into 3rd or 4th keeping the clutch in, then try reverse again and it will go all the way in then.
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Old 11-08-2009, 04:17 PM   #76
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5,000 miles and I have never had this happen. You sure you are putting it all the way into gear? I notice sometimes shifting into reverse that it does not want to go all the way into gear. I either let it roll a little, or shift it into 3rd or 4th keeping the clutch in, then try reverse again and it will go all the way in then.
Am i sure? No, im positive. After being in the automotive industry for the past 15 years as a specialist transmission tech, lets just say i know transmissions. My JK has done it to 5 different drivers, its not me.
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:24 AM   #77
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Took mine to the dealer last Thursday and had him take a test drive with me. About the fourth start and it popped out of gear!

Here's a scenario that I've noticed it's worse. When approaching a red light and downshifting and being almost to a stop and in second gear. The light changes, I'm barely moving, so I put into first, start letting the clutch out, then "bang" it pops back to neutral. It will also pop out when pulling out from a dead stop, just not as often.

He said he's going to talk with the corporate folks and get back to me today. I'll keep ya posted.
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:02 AM   #78
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Should I Even Buy a New 2010 Manual????

I am new to this site as of a week ago. I joined to learn of any potential issues to watch for on 2010 Wranglers and....WOW! I was / am considering ordering a new 2010 Wrangler with a manual transmission but am now really skeptica! I have owned three CJs (5 and two 7s), Wagoneers, Cherokees (big and little ones), Grand Cherokees, Libertys, etc with the CJs all being manuals. Not sure if I am trying to rationalize the manual transmission problem but, it appears the more recent posts with new transmissions the JOG has been fixed? I have ZERO patience with major problems on new vehicles as our prior '07 Liberty had a new torque converter installed at 800 miles and from then on, nothing but a poor performing transmission (thank goodness for short term leases!). I am not looking for anyone in this forum to convince me one way or other....I just am looking to see if anyone knows for sure the newer transmissions have been fixed (even though there has been no formal recall, I am kinda doubting it). All of this really sucks as I am really wanting to get a Wrangler! May just have to go with a pre 2007 model with low miles. Thanks in advance to all!
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:00 PM   #79
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I noticed that dealers seems to replace "defective" manual transmission.. This for me indicates that the "forces" at Fiat/Chrysler seem to know they have a problem..The auto transmission also have their issues.. Jeeps catching fire is more "critical" than the JOG..
Anyway, it seems you have made up your mind already, reading your last sentence..
Welcome to the forum..
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:18 PM   #80
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I noticed that dealers seems to replace "defective" manual transmission.. This for me indicates that the "forces" at Fiat/Chrysler seem to know they have a problem..The auto transmission also have their issues.. Jeeps catching fire is more "critical" than the JOG..
Anyway, it seems you have made up your mind already, reading your last sentence..
Welcome to the forum..
Actually, I think I am going to go ahead and order a '10 with a manual and keep my fingers crossed I get a good manual transmission! The three year warranty (and I won't exceed the mileage part of a warranty) will be my safety net. I hear you on the catching fire issue vs. JOG! Thanks for your insight and wish me luck!!!
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Old 11-16-2009, 02:48 PM   #81
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Be sure you test drive your new Jeep PRIOR signing on the dotted line.. You should feel this gear shifter engage... Then, whilst accelerating in first (just gently) try to pull the shifter slightly towards NEUTRAL... you should feel this "locked in" resistance (lock effect of the back tapers) if no good, get another one to drive..
Good Luck....
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Old 11-16-2009, 03:38 PM   #82
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[QUOTE=USAntigoon;489520]Be sure you test drive your new Jeep PRIOR signing on the dotted line.. You should feel this gear shifter engage... Then, whilst accelerating in first (just gently) try to pull the shifter slightly towards NEUTRAL... you should feel this "locked in" resistance (lock effect of the back tapers) if no good, get another one to drive..
Good Luck....[/QUOTE

'ppreciate it....great tips!
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Old 11-16-2009, 03:43 PM   #83
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Be sure you test drive your new Jeep PRIOR signing on the dotted line.. You should feel this gear shifter engage... Then, whilst accelerating in first (just gently) try to pull the shifter slightly towards NEUTRAL... you should feel this "locked in" resistance (lock effect of the back tapers) if no good, get another one to drive..
Good Luck....
Better yet. Drive two and look/feel for differences.
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:08 PM   #84
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I have an 09 wrangler and im having to jog issue on 1st as well. Going to the dealer thursday hopefully they will do something about it and not tell me that it cant reprodued or tell me that my 32" mud tires void my warrenty
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Old 11-16-2009, 04:26 PM   #85
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I have an 09 wrangler and im having to jog issue on 1st as well. Going to the dealer thursday hopefully they will do something about it and not tell me that it cant reprodued or tell me that my 32" mud tires void my warrenty
Just do the test I suggested to Tengai10...If this test does not allow a JOG, assure yourself that you are fully engaging first..(shift slow and all the way forward) First gear is a triple cone synchro and this can be tricky, the slower you engage the better the cones will align ... particular with a cold transmission.....
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Old 11-17-2009, 06:09 AM   #86
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Actually, I think I am going to go ahead and order a '10 with a manual and keep my fingers crossed I get a good manual transmission! The three year warranty (and I won't exceed the mileage part of a warranty) will be my safety net. I hear you on the catching fire issue vs. JOG! Thanks for your insight and wish me luck!!!
Good luck on your choice of new wrangler.

I have had two 08s and both manual transmissions, no JOG.

I'm a happy owner. We have had a few posts about JOG in this forum but I don't know it to be a widespread issue. It does make me wonder though if there are problems ahead for properly working transmissions or if the transmission just comes that way and something has to be done about it once discovered. My current 08 is 1 year and three months and the transmission has been solid in 22,000 miles of travel.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:10 AM   #87
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Im fully shifting into 1st but jog still happens. I can believe this is a known issue and jeep hasnt fixed it
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:32 PM   #88
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11,000 miles. The only transmission issue I've had is that its sometimes hard to shift from first to second. Happens more so when its cold. I can shift through all the other gears fine and from neutral to second fine. No problems with JOG.
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:09 PM   #89
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11,000 miles. The only transmission issue I've had is that its sometimes hard to shift from first to second. Happens more so when its cold. I can shift through all the other gears fine and from neutral to second fine. No problems with JOG.
That is inherent to the triple cone synchro we have with the 1/2 gear.. Just shift slow when it is cold to allow this floating synchro ring to center properly..Once the operating temp is reached, all will be fine...
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:14 PM   #90
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11,000 miles. The only transmission issue I've had is that its sometimes hard to shift from first to second. Happens more so when its cold. I can shift through all the other gears fine and from neutral to second fine. No problems with JOG.
I have also recently noticed that it is noticably harder to shift into 2nd from first. If I push the clutch all the way down and pull the shifter into 2nd from 1st it seems like i can hold the shifter against the slight resistance until the shifter almost gets sucked into 2nd gear. Is this the synhcro's aligning or something? At first I was blaming it on my noobish shifting ability but I don't believe that is the issue anymore.

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