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Old 12-14-2013, 02:33 PM   #1
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A bad experience

Guys. Just need to vent here. I posted some of this info on another thread, but I wanted to get some opinions and maybe some sympathy. The process has left a sour taste for me.

I just had my first Wrangler buying experience. Order the AMPd and finally took delivery right before Thanksgiving. When I took delivery, I was obviously excited and wanted to trust everyone since I own a local business in the area and know the guys. I thought everything was going to be smooth and hassle free. The night I picked it up, I went to the finance manager to sign paperwork. He already had everything printed and ready for me. I looked at the contract and noticed he put the $2,000 extended warranty without me asking for it. I told him I didn't want it. He told me that the finance company was insisting I take it or they wouldn't approve me. I questioned him about it and he kept telling me they are making me take it. Either they would raise the interest or just deny me. So believing him I signed the paperwork. I even called my salesman the next day and asked if that was true. I told him not to jerk me since I know him personally. He told me it was very common and finance companies want it to protect the vehicle. So with him telling me that I took his word and left it as that.

About a week later, Wells Fargo calls me congratulating me with the purchase. I take the opportunity to ask them if they made me take the contract. I talked with 2 people and a supervisor just to make sure. They assure me it simply is not true.

At this point I am really pissed they flat out lied to my face. I talked with the general manager after opening a case with Jeep customer service. He tells me he will get to the bottom of it but tells me I probably misunderstood him. Later the finance manager calls me and tells me corporate called him and I obviously didn't hear him correctly. I try to stay calm but let him know he clearly lied to me. I also called my salesman since he also lied to me. He beats around the bush. His attitude is totally different with me now. He quickly transfer me to general manager. So my communication is now over with him.

Wells Fargo is willing to redo the paperwork again without the warranty and also without gap insurance since that was conveniently put on without me wanting it. Finance manger says they are willing to do paperwork over, but it has to have the original date I signed since they already submitted their numbers to corporate and it would be "illegal" to do. I clearly told him what he did to me was illegal. Is this true? I am hoping corporate makes them redo the paperwork. Bank is willing to redo paperwork, but it has to have current date. I am just pissed at this whole situation and it has put a strain on our relationship since my business is local with them. I would love to go in the finance managers office and take the stupid smile off his face. I now see how that particular dealer works and it sucks. Bottom line is I got my Wrangler but the whole process truly sucked.

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Old 12-14-2013, 02:40 PM   #2
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Sounds like a violation of Truth in Lending law.

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Old 12-14-2013, 02:46 PM   #3
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I Thatbwas pure scumduggery. I was in the powersports business for quite a long time... what he did was filthy dirty. Warranties are often a good thing... lies and shoehorning one on a person? A grade manure. I would have a chat with the owner, not the finance guy. His "penetration" of sales is probably awesome, but not worth risking some massive legal headaches, nor worth tarnishing a dealer's reputation.
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:11 PM   #4
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Seems to be a common practice too. Happened to me in Oregon. Same if you take the warranty we can lower your interest rate line. I figured we were keeping the Jeep for the long haul so I did not press him on it.

Hope you get yours resolved, I know how that can leave a bad taste.
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:13 PM   #5
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That needs to be turned over to the Attorney Generals Fraud Division.

I would also send a letter to the Owner and General Manager of the Dealership, explaining to them, how dishonest their Scumbag employee is!
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:15 PM   #6
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Please post the name of the dealership, so we can all avoid this dealership. Let it be known that this dealership is blackballed and should not be used for any future purposes for all members of this forum. Pop the word around.
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:37 PM   #7
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Update. Finance manager just calls me and tells me he can update my extended warranty to lifetime to make this go away. I know $2,000 is the going rate for lifetime for people on here. It sounds ok, but I have not kept a vehicle for more than 3 years for as long as I can remember. I hope the Wrangler is different, but who knows.
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:39 PM   #8
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I'm a dealer. It's ILLEGAL to tell anyone they MUST purchase ANY insurance. This is BS. You should just tell that lying sack to cancel the warranty and send the money to the bank, no need to redo paperwork. You have 60 days to cancel for full refund. Dealers like this make us all look like sh|+. If they are not willing to do exactly what you want, tell them you will just contact the Attorney General for your State and see what they have to say about that!
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:39 PM   #9
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Unfortunately, that can happen. Right up until the end if you don't like what's happening you have to be willing to walk. You also have to read all of the paperwork. Once you get up, you'll see how they'll change on what nonsense you have to have. I'm surprised that's all he tried to get out of you. For example, seat & paint protection, glass etching, rust proofing, nitro tire fill, tire & wheel road damage, etc. You can report the matter in NJ to the Division of Banking & Finance regarding the loan and for how much good it will do, the Better Business Bureau and Division of Consumer Affairs. I assume you won't go back for service. I'm also curious as to who the dealer is.
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:43 PM   #10
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Seems to be a common practice too. Happened to me in Oregon. Same if you take the warranty we can lower your interest rate line. I figured we were keeping the Jeep for the long haul so I did not press him on it. Hope you get yours resolved, I know how that can leave a bad taste.
Illegal to say this too!! No wonder everyone thinks all of us dealers are scum.
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:45 PM   #11
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Sorry to hear that. I just signed papers for a trailhawk so my memory is fresh. They asked me about the gap...I opted out (my previous dealer gave it to me for free, but no biggie). I also didn't accept the extended warranty. Dealer was asking me to add on paint/interior protection, LoJack, and alarm. I just added the alarm since the paint can be detailed, same with the interior...and LoJack is so 1990's. I'm sorry to hear that the dealer flat out lied to u. $2k is A LOT of money...especially when added to finance, but I'm glad it was resolved. Congrats on ur new jeep. Bittersweet ending.
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:00 PM   #12
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I agree. In the end it is your ball. You were jacked around and you have a case. I would probably pursue it because I want justice and will cut my nose off to spite my face to get it. But that is just me...

Anyway, as I initially stated, it is ultimately up to you to have the willingness to walk away from any deal you dislike. If they have done all that work to get you to sign and then lose you in the end they screwed up. You will get a call within a day or two with them trying to see how you could have possibly misunderstood the kind and honest finance guy, poor thing that he is, so misunderstood like that, heh, heh...

My one real victory in a car purchase was actually my 2003 TJ, which I purchased from a Honda dealer when it was about six months old with very low miles. I was displeased with something unexpected at the end just like what happened to you. I simply glared at the guy and clearly stated that this was never a part of our previous discussions. I got up and walked out very quickly to my car. As I drove off I saw the salesman trotting out after me with papers in his hand. I smiled, because I knew what was coming: Within two hours I had a phone call offering me a slightly better deal with none of the added-in, last minute BS. I waited on it overnight, which was hard for me, because I just knew that it either would be sold the next day or the financing would fall through. I was paranoid. Neither happened. The salesman called me again at 9:30 AM and I let him stew. At 4:30 PM I called him back and got an even lower price. Usually I am not very good at this sort of thing, but for some reason I was determined to get *that* Jeep for *that* price. I did, too.

I hate every part about buying a vehicle. I even hate test drives. I stressed just recalling that story.

I need some Rolaids now... 0_o

In the end you did okay. You did not allow the deal itself to change. You only accepted the added-in product due to outright deception. You got your vehicle and like it (I presume). And this will probably work out to your advantage. Stick by your guns and make them give you back what you did not intend to spend on coverage that you did not request. The lifetime bit is BS. A dealership that allows that sort of crap will likely have a service department that disallows all sorts of things as being your fault and not covered.

Good luck. Please keep us posted so we can see how this ends up playing out. If it gets outright ugly, please share the name of the dealership. I see nothing wrong legally with discussing a legitimate claim and your justifiable anger. It is only libel if it is not true and is intended to cause harm. Venting truth is not against the law in the US - yet... ;-)
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:08 PM   #13
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I'm a dealer. It's ILLEGAL to tell anyone they MUST purchase ANY insurance. This is bullshit. You should just tell that lying sack to cancel the warranty and send the money to the bank, no need to redo paperwork. You have 60 days to cancel for full refund. Dealers like this make us all look like shit. If they are not willing to do exactly what you want, tell them you will just contact the Attorney General for your State and see what they have to say about that!
Clay, I know I can cancel the warranty and the gap insurance without having to redo paperwork, but I was already told it wouldn't lower my payment or I wouldn't get a check back. It only goes to the end of the loan. My goal is to lower may payments. I would like to redo paperwork without insurance, without gap and also give another $1,000. Its almost like an extra $4,000 down payment. The lifetime warranty sounds all good, but honestly I probably will not use it.
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:13 PM   #14
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Gap insurance isn't the worst thing in the world especially if you are upside down with a trade.
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:16 PM   #15
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Anytime I hear something fishy like this, I ask the rep if they're comfortable putting the statement in writing with their signature and a copy of their driver's license. Oddly, no takers so far.
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:27 PM   #16
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Scumbags!
Never, ever sign anything if it doesn't sound right or it isn't what you negotiated. Better to walk away than to be stuck for years with a shady deal eating away at your pockets. I wouldn't trust this dealer with nothing. I would also complain to Chrysler about them. Are you aware that the profit margin on these phoney insurances is about 60% to them?
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:42 PM   #17
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Scumbags!
Never, ever sign anything if it doesn't sound right or it isn't what you negotiated. Better to walk away than to be stuck for years with a shady deal eating away at your pockets. I wouldn't trust this dealer with nothing. I would also complain to Chrysler about them. Are you aware that the profit margin on these phoney insurances is about 60% to them?
+1 on the scumbags.

Last new Ford truck I bought the finance guy (which I hate talking to since I pay cash) told me that I need to buy this 1800.00 warranty that covers things the 3/36 Ford warranty doesnt - like radio, air conditioning etc. It wasnt even a Ford ESP plan, some aftermarket crap.

I'm looking at the guy stunned, I actually worked for Ford motor company for 20 years, in WARRANTY claims lol. When I told him flat out he was full of it he stood his ground and was arguing with me about it. Told him I'll bet him that if we walk into the service department and I give them the basic part number for the radio and he says its covered under 3/36 bumper to bumper I get 1800 off the price of the truck and if its not covered I'll buy his warranty.

Needless to say the paperwork was done in about 30 seconds and I was shuffled out the door. Its stuff like that that makes me hate buying new cars and trucks, you can make decent money being honest in the car business, you dont have to screw people over. Its pretty sad how many uninformed people fall for stuff (I know my wife would) like that and will never even know they got screwed.
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:03 PM   #18
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just refinance it with a credit union. Take the dealer totally out of the loop.

cancel so it comes off the loan amount and the refinance the loan for the same month term you had.
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:07 PM   #19
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This is classic high pressure sales tactics. Once you agree on a price and Sales handles you over to the Finance Manager to fill out the contract they know the got "a live one". You just want to get out of there and drive your new vehicle and maybe not paying attention to detail. They have a laundry list of high margin products and services they try to add on or sneak in using any tactic they can including the old "It will only add pennies to your monthly payment." or "All of our smart customers buy this coverage or accessory." Some of the worst dealers by default add this to the contract, its probably filled in by default on the screen where they place the information and you need to catch it and demand they remove it. A dealer is like any other business, they are there to make money. If they don't, they won't be there for long to service us but it's how they go about it. The more a vehicle is subject to discount from MSRP the worse the tactics become because their margins get really thin.

In the past, I had access to the GM Employee Discount program and there was one dealer that specialized in buyers of this program. They advertised openly and even offered an additional $1000 discount to users of this program. Then during "checkout" they had 8-10 different items automatically tagged on to the contract at what they called "a tremendous GM Family" discount. The only way to get the $1000 was to accept ~$2500 in additions.

There is a reason why attorneys, insurance people and car salesman are the common stereotype for unprofessional practitioners. It's certainly not all of them but it must be a noticeable percentage.

Every time I walk into a dealer, I tell myself "OK, let the BS begin."
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:26 PM   #20
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Scuzzy dealerships, I had the exact same experience with Long Beach Chrysler in 1997 when I brought my Jeep. The repair department is the same too. Don't go to LONG BEACH CHRYSLER JEEP

I had a signed invoice, and they added $5000 to the cost of my Wrangler. I should have sued, because I had the original signed invoice. But, I waited too long.

Service department charged me over $2000 to fix a check engine light problem. They did a ton of repairs, but the problem wasn't fixed. The service department changed my O2 sensor too, only to later find out that my cat. was rattling like a tin can. And, the broken cat. was directly below the O2 sensor. Dealerships are a bunch of crooks.

I'm glad you are on top of this one. I would definitely call the Attorney General, and maybe contact a lawyer to sue the pants off them for their crooked business practices.

Be Careful going to those state consumer agencies because it seems they can be as crooked as the Dealerships. I find I get better satisfaction with the Feds. Maybe contact your U.S. District Congressman or Senator, and see if he/she can guide you.

I was looking at the Federal Trade Commission Act and Section 5 "prohibits unfair or deceptive acts or practices in or affecting commerce."

Tell your Congressman that Federal Law is being violated by fraudulent misrepresentation of the facts in your business dealing with a dealership specifically according to FTCA Section 5.

Stay on top of it. Good Luck.
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:34 PM   #21
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just refinance it with a credit union. Take the dealer totally out of the loop.

cancel so it comes off the loan amount and the refinance the loan for the same month term you had.
x2^ Yeah, if you qualified for dealership financing, you will likely qualify for credit union financing. There are all sorts of Credit Unions. They actually financed my Jeep, because the dealership financing just seemed too crooked to me.

Go in and sit down and talk with them. Or, see if your area of business has a credit union. There are Teacher's Credit Unions, Federal Credit Unions, State Credit Unions, and many different kinds, depending on your area of Business.
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:42 PM   #22
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I think most dealers push the warranty, but what was done here was blatantly illegal. I know I've never bought one, and never regretted it. My favorite was a Chevy dealer. We picked up a new '04 Monte Carlo, and the salesman kept harping on how reliable it was. Then when they insisted I needed an extended warranty, I asked which lie to believe. If it was so "reliable", why did I HAVE to extend the warranty? It's now 9 years old, and has never had a wrench on it that I wasn't holding (and only once for that). Warranties are generally wasted cash.
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:46 PM   #23
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I was sort of in a no win situation. The wrangler already had about $5,000 worth of accessories on before I even signed paperwork. Also I really don't think I would get approved for a credit union. Maybe later I can refinance but my credit has taken a big bit recently. I think the loan I have now is the only one I could get. I already received about 3 letters in mail for ejections. So I am lucky to even get what I got. Thanks for all the input.
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:14 PM   #24
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Finance and Sales guys conspired to commit a fraud and they got busted. Not sure if the local Well Fargo person was part of it or not. At this point I'd stick with them since you're in your current financial situation. However, I think you can tell the finance manager you'll be keeping the extended warranty, for FREE in exchange you are willing to forget the matter and NOT call the Attorney General and file a complaint. Wouldn't hurt to call the AG to explore the situation, but don't file a complaint unless the dealership isn't willing to make it right. The reality is the extended warranties are a HUGE profit margin for the dealership and the employees. Gap insurance isn't a bad thing but call your local insurance agent see what their costs would be, from the dealership its negotiable.
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:34 PM   #25
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I was sort of in a no win situation. The wrangler already had about $5,000 worth of accessories on before I even signed paperwork. Also I really don't think I would get approved for a credit union. Maybe later I can refinance but my credit has taken a big bit recently. I think the loan I have now is the only one I could get. I already received about 3 letters in mail for ejections. So I am lucky to even get what I got. Thanks for all the input.
How much did you put down?
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:59 PM   #26
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All this advice and info is exceptional but the best advice is always be willing to walk out the door. If that little voice tells you it doesn't seem right then it usually isn't! I wish you luck and most of all, don't let your experience ruin your "Jeep" experience!
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Old 12-14-2013, 11:11 PM   #27
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Don't even bother with the AG, it's your word against his. This is only the tip of what dealerships do. I worked for a jeep dealer for 10 years in several different capacities, you aren't even ready for all the stories of dishonesty.
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Old 12-14-2013, 11:33 PM   #28
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I had a very similar horrendous experience. Was offered a 7 year extended warranty where my payments would go from 530 to 550 a month. They failed to mention it also added several months to my financing. When I question that the extended warranty only took my monthly up by 20 they said yup.

During contract signing I saw it said 2999 for the 7 year extended warranty. As I pointed it out I confirmed again that this ONLY added 20 a month more, no other change. I didn't do the calculation in my head and initialed. I just about initialed everything in that contract however they failed to point out the increase in months of financing.

I was furious that a) I didn't question it more but also b) they totally screwed with me.

Luckily I was able to cancel but I'm on the same boat. Payments remain the same however I have about 7 less payments, which is fine.

Definitely put a damper on the whole owning a new car experience.
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:14 AM   #29
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Nj has one of if not the strongest division of consumer affairs in the country. Get in contact with them, they can and will go as far as making sure this dealer gets their nj licensed yanked. I hat NJ but have to hand it to the division of consumer affairs. If they can't do it they will send it right up the line to the AG.

Please pm me the dealership, if we are in the same area I will be sure not to take my jeep there for service.
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:17 AM   #30
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how much did you put down?
$8,000

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