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Old 06-11-2013, 11:36 PM   #1
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Advice negotiating new Jeep

Hi Everyone, first post, first Jeep (soon hopefully)!

I don't have a lot of experience with buying vehicles and am hoping to get some advice (long post, skip to bottom for questions). I've been shopping around for a few weeks and have decided to get a 6spd manual rubicon unlimited.

The local dealership doesn't have any manual rubicons and the sales guy tells me that they're hard to come by as most people want automatics, but that he could give me a good deal on one of their sports or saharas. He also says that they don't operate on commission anymore, so he's willing to sell me one for dealer invoice cost plus $500 (because "they have to keep the lights on").

He showed me an invoice and it was a couple thousand less than MSRP. It seems like a reasonable deal, no need to negotiate, right? I told him I'd think about it overnight and was waffling on settling for a sahara, but am pretty set on getting a rubicon as I plan to add a small lift, some 35s and do some weekend offroading.

Anyway, that night I went to the jeep web site and quickly found a few dealerships in the region with the specs and color I'm looking for using the inventory search feature, so I went back to him the next day and asked if he could get any of those in. He said he could as dealerships regularly swap vehicles, so we discussed price. I basically agreed to the invoice + $500 figure and he said he would contact the dealerships with the rubi I want if I would give him a $500 deposit. I did so and left, thinking it was a done deal.

A few days passed without any word from him. Finally I called the dealership today to find out what was going on (I want my new jeep yesterday!). Apparently some dealerships won't give up their rubi in trade, but he's found one that will after sending out a dozen faxes of vehicles he's willing to trade back. Faxes? In 2013? Really? When you can log in to the jeep system and see the inventory at any dealership at any time? Anyway, now, apparently, since there has to be a swap, I'm going to have to "eat the cost of shipping" and pay an extra $1500.

Sorry for the length of this post, just wanted to provide some background. My questions are:
  • Is the invoice price + $500 really is as good as it sounds?
  • Is it THAT hard to get a manual rubicon unlimited?
  • Should I have to pay for the full transfer cost from another dealership? Or should I just go there (about a 5 hour trip one way) and buy it from the other dealership?
  • If I were to order a new one from the dealership in order to get the exact specs I want, how long should that take?

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Old 06-11-2013, 11:44 PM   #2
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doesn't sound that great of a deal to me, take the trip to get it and save the money. if not just shop around.

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Old 06-11-2013, 11:47 PM   #3
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Invoice plus $500 is an honest deal. The $1500 transfer fee isn't bs: if you don't want to pay it, go to the dealership yourself (this I recommend).

You can get any Jeep that you want; if you're anything like most of us, you only have two obstacles: time and money. So the question is, how soon do you want it?

Now? If yes, can you find it? If yes, work out a good deal wherein you and the dealer benefit, not just you.

If you can't find it, are you willing to custom order and wait for it to come? If yes, you'll get a better deal not only price wise but also option wise. Plus, the dealer won't have to have your vehicle sitting on his lot, racking up dealer charges. Both parties win. But you'll have to wait for it and right now the turnaround time is relatively quick - four to six weeks.

Kudos to you and please update us in this thread.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:53 PM   #4
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5 hour trip definitely. Plus, they are more inclined to sell due to old stock, being a 6 speed Rubicon Jku. Have them give you the price out the door. Negotiate from there even a few thousand more , and remember that they have to sell cars, you don't have to buy one. Be willing to walk or sale that you will sign today if they'll dal
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:01 AM   #5
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Treadlightly guarantees 1% below invoice. My STARTING point for negotiation would be 2% below. If they want to make a sale TODAY, they will give you the 1% below, otherwise, tell them you'll just join TL, wait 30 days, and buy it for 1% below from another dealer.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:11 AM   #6
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invoice is not the true invoice.. 10% off sticker is not difficult at all.. they have lots of hold backs, and 2014 ordering opened up so grille em on the 2013's

there are tons of jeep dealers around.. and they can all search for cars.. negotiate at several dealers and tell them what u wanna pay instead of waiting for them to tell you.

i hate how dealers treat buyers, so i'm all for lowballing them.. i have negotiated 4490 off a 24k msrp vehicle local.. you can easily get 10% off the top of yours..

the whole invoice thing pisses me off... it's not invoice what so ever... go in and tell them "so and so other dealer" said 3k off the top... and if they match you'll buy... i guarantee they will make it work... and make sure they dont then under value your trade to make up for the deal.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:13 AM   #7
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if u act like you "need" the vehicle.. they will work off of that... be patient and find the right vehicle and price... otherwise... you'll be paying for the rush.

doesnt hurt to check several dealers and call them directly.. why pay 1500$ transfer fee when u can drive to the other dealer..
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:14 AM   #8
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Thanks for the advice! My birthday is in 2 weeks and I'm taking 2 weeks of vacation -- I'm pretty motivated to be spending most of that time enjoying the outdoors in a new JKU, so I would be willing to pay a bit more to get it sooner...but not thousands more...

@NFRs2000NYC -- 1% BELOW invoice??! Something doesn't add up. Either the invoice is wrong or they're in the losing money business. Isn't invoice what they pay to get the vehicle?
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijowysock View Post
invoice is not the true invoice.. 10% off sticker is not difficult at all.. they have lots of hold backs, and 2014 ordering opened up so grille em on the 2013's

there are tons of jeep dealers around.. and they can all search for cars.. negotiate at several dealers and tell them what u wanna pay instead of waiting for them to tell you.

i hate how dealers treat buyers, so i'm all for lowballing them.. i have negotiated 4490 off a 24k msrp vehicle local.. you can easily get 10% off the top of yours..

the whole invoice thing pisses me off... it's not invoice what so ever... go in and tell them "so and so other dealer" said 3k off the top... and if they match you'll buy... i guarantee they will make it work... and make sure they dont then under value your trade to make up for the deal.
Very nice, 20% off -- I have a lot to learn!

There is currently a $3250 manufacturer discount offered by Jeep here in Canada -- does that affect the margin for the dealer? So my deal was actually "invoice" + 500 - $3250
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:22 AM   #10
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Will I have any difficulty getting my $500 deposit back (for the jeep he can't seem to bring in) if I decide to walk on this dealer?
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndrcntrl View Post
Thanks for the advice! My birthday is in 2 weeks and I'm taking 2 weeks of vacation -- I'm pretty motivated to be spending most of that time enjoying the outdoors in a new JKU, so I would be willing to pay a bit more to get it sooner...but not thousands more...

@NFRs2000NYC -- 1% BELOW invoice??! Something doesn't add up. Either the invoice is wrong or they're in the losing money business. Isn't invoice what they pay to get the vehicle?

The invoice is correct, but they make money many other ways, including:
  1. 3% holdback payment from Chrysler
  2. Other factory-to-dealer direct incentives/payments
  3. Your financing (if relevant)
  4. Your trade (if relevant)
  5. Dealer-sold options (rustproofing, service plans)
  6. Other fees that they add on (but that are capped at $75 if you use an affiliate program...like Tread Lightly)

I posted more info here some time ago if you are interested: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/pur...ml#post2778353


My best advice:
  • Never pay more than 1% below invoice + $75 in max dealer fees on a Chrysler product...whether or not you use an affiliate program buy...and try to do better.
  • Negotiate the sales price and lock it in before you discuss trade-in price, financing, or dealer-sold options.
  • Research your financing and trade-in so you don't get ripped off there.
  • Avoid buying dealer-sold options
  • Found a jeep at another distant dealer? Pick it up yourself and save the transfer fee. You can get service anywhere.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:28 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ndrcntrl View Post
Very nice, 20% off -- I have a lot to learn!

There is currently a $3250 manufacturer discount offered by Jeep here in Canada -- does that affect the margin for the dealer? So my deal was actually "invoice" + 500 - $3250
i'm not canadian so i dont know the rebates... i'm not using any manufacturers discount.. just negotiating with the dealer directly.

these are my personal suggestions:

A: go on jeep website and search for EVERY DEALER in 50 mile radius.

B: decide what you "must have"... color, model, options... (and then decide things you like but could live without)

C: email the internet sales department of those dealers the SAME message "i am looking for this vehicle, specs, and that you're not in need of the jeep.. but if you found the right one at the right price that you would buy it...

D: when you get an actual reply instead of a copy/pasted one.. gauge how badly you want their vehicle they have and then throw a bS number back "another dealer told me this much discount... can you match it? i dont want to go back and forth but i did email you first and felt like if we can make it work i would go with you"..

E: dealer will play hardball, but if they agree,.. have them fax you a purchase order (this is a contract with all the pertinent numbers and gives you a final price) without a purchase order they can change the numbers at any time.. many dealers do this "oh that price was a mistake" and add a few grand while you're waiting in the finance room... with a purchase order you can say "this is why i drove here, this is a the deal in writing".

F: make sure they dont undervalue your trade based on negotiations.. stay firm on trade value.

G: dont add any bullshit warranty or extra goodies.. you can always add them... this is just a trick they play.

H: enjoy your car.

if all goes right, it shouldnt take more than a week to close a deal with good email responses... and you'll save a few grand... but always be prepared to just walk.. the fact is there are thousands of jeeps out there... it's a buyers market.. dont let them tell you otherwise...
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scuba_steve View Post
The invoice is correct, but they make money many other ways, including:
  1. 3% holdback payment from Chrysler
  2. Other factory-to-dealer direct incentives/payments
  3. Your financing (if relevant)
  4. Your trade (if relevant)
  5. Dealer-sold options (rustproofing, service plans)
  6. Other fees that they add on (but that are capped at $75 if you use an affiliate program...like Tread Lightly)

I posted more info here some time ago if you are interested: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/pur...ml#post2778353


My best advice:
  • Never pay more than 1% below invoice + $75 in max dealer fees on a Chrysler product...whether or not you use an affiliate program buy...and try to do better.
  • Negotiate the sales price and lock it in before you discuss trade-in price, financing, or dealer-sold options.
  • Research your financing and trade-in so you don't get ripped off there.
  • Avoid buying dealer-sold options
  • Found a jeep at another distant dealer? Pick it up yourself and save the transfer fee. You can get service anywhere.
Great advice. Read your other post, very helpful information and good input from others. Thanks!
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:54 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijowysock View Post
i'm not canadian so i dont know the rebates... i'm not using any manufacturers discount.. just negotiating with the dealer directly.

these are my personal suggestions:

A: go on jeep website and search for EVERY DEALER in 50 mile radius.

B: decide what you "must have"... color, model, options... (and then decide things you like but could live without)

C: email the internet sales department of those dealers the SAME message "i am looking for this vehicle, specs, and that you're not in need of the jeep.. but if you found the right one at the right price that you would buy it...

D: when you get an actual reply instead of a copy/pasted one.. gauge how badly you want their vehicle they have and then throw a bS number back "another dealer told me this much discount... can you match it? i dont want to go back and forth but i did email you first and felt like if we can make it work i would go with you"..

E: dealer will play hardball, but if they agree,.. have them fax you a purchase order (this is a contract with all the pertinent numbers and gives you a final price) without a purchase order they can change the numbers at any time.. many dealers do this "oh that price was a mistake" and add a few grand while you're waiting in the finance room... with a purchase order you can say "this is why i drove here, this is a the deal in writing".

F: make sure they dont undervalue your trade based on negotiations.. stay firm on trade value.

G: dont add any bullshit warranty or extra goodies.. you can always add them... this is just a trick they play.

H: enjoy your car.

if all goes right, it shouldnt take more than a week to close a deal with good email responses... and you'll save a few grand... but always be prepared to just walk.. the fact is there are thousands of jeeps out there... it's a buyers market.. dont let them tell you otherwise...

Great -- I'm printing this stuff off and will be much better prepared the next time I talk to a dealership. This site is awesome, really appreciate the advice from everyone!
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:36 AM   #15
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Jeep dealings

I had to drive to get my new jeep as the local guys didn't have what I wanted even though they would of did a great deal on ordering one, I didn't want to wait the 6 + weeks. I did a deal over the phone with a dealer 100 miles away and got mine for invoice and he also took off the holdback (900+) and removed his dealer fees (599) He got it down as low as he could go without a lot of pushing on my part so... I think if you look hard enough you can strike a better deal. They are out there.
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Old 06-12-2013, 05:59 AM   #16
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Sorry to jump in (But I read that if you use an aff program, they can't charge you more than a $75.00 dealer fee. Tread lightly- Does this count, and where does it say they can not charge you more than $ 75.00?
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:15 AM   #17
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Starting looking myself for the 2014 when they get here, This is great information! They are proud of the prices right now since they cant order 2014 as of yet, so the 2013's are high in my area, with no rebates just for the sport and they where NOT wanting to negotiate on anything. Sorry to highjack.
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:24 AM   #18
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This is my recent experience, of course YMMV.
I was looking to replace my TJ Rubicon and decided on a Unlimited 10th Anniversary. There were a few things I didn't want to waver on, hard top, unlimited, 6MT. Two of the colors were acceptable to me. I had the money secured and wanted to not trade in order to limit the variables.
On Memorial Day I (dealer closed) I took a ride to a local dealer and visually confirmed they had a Jeep that met my specs, meanwhile I had found a dealer in another state with the other acceptable color. They had a Buy It Now price on eBay about $6000 below list. I was taking vacation time and the out of state dealer would fly a purchaser out or deliver the Jeep at no additional cost. Either Jeep was OK with me.
Early the next morning I sent the new car sales manager at the local dealership an email stating that I was going to buy a 10th Anniversary Rubicon Unlimited within the next two days and that I had an offer for X dollars available from a dealer outside the area. I told him that stock number Y on his lot was comparably equipped. I told him that I preferred to buy local and that if he could beat it by noon I would be that afternoon with a cashier's check and that the price had to be "walk out the door"; any necessary fees needed to be deducted from the price. A couple hours later he responded a hundred dollars less, so I brought him a check and left with a new Jeep.
A couple important things to this: either Jeep was acceptable to me and I meant everything I said, I had no problem walking away if necessary. I also thought it was important to offer a price that was acceptable to all.
I didn't want BS, I just wanted it cleanly done.
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:38 AM   #19
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10% off MSRP, period.
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:50 AM   #20
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" remember that they have to sell cars, you don't have to buy one"

great advise in many posts here

2 factors influence YOUR side of the deal:

1) how big a hurry you think you are in to get a new rig;
2) how much extra you're willing to pay by not comparison shopping

Finding the best deal on your Jeep is very much in the tradition of "Hunter-Gatherer".....go out and FIND what you want for the $ you have determined is appropriate.

This is the best 'purchase-advise' thread I've seen on the Forum.
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:55 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitchottie View Post
Sorry to jump in (But I read that if you use an aff program, they can't charge you more than a $75.00 dealer fee. Tread lightly- Does this count, and where does it say they can not charge you more than $ 75.00?
Tread lightly definitely counts. I can't find the link now, but the max dealer fee is in the rules of the program for Chrysler employees. I don't think it's on the TL website, but I could be wrong.
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:12 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
Treadlightly guarantees 1% below invoice. My STARTING point for negotiation would be 2% below. If they want to make a sale TODAY, they will give you the 1% below, otherwise, tell them you'll just join TL, wait 30 days, and buy it for 1% below from another dealer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scuba_steve View Post
The invoice is correct, but they make money many other ways, including:
  1. 3% holdback payment from Chrysler
  2. Other factory-to-dealer direct incentives/payments
  3. Your financing (if relevant)
  4. Your trade (if relevant)
  5. Dealer-sold options (rustproofing, service plans)
  6. Other fees that they add on (but that are capped at $75 if you use an affiliate program...like Tread Lightly)
I posted more info here some time ago if you are interested: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/pur...ml#post2778353


My best advice:
  • Never pay more than 1% below invoice + $75 in max dealer fees on a Chrysler product...whether or not you use an affiliate program buy...and try to do better.
  • Negotiate the sales price and lock it in before you discuss trade-in price, financing, or dealer-sold options.
  • Research your financing and trade-in so you don't get ripped off there.
  • Avoid buying dealer-sold options
  • Found a jeep at another distant dealer? Pick it up yourself and save the transfer fee. You can get service anywhere.
+1 on those two posts.

Dealer holdback is 3% of invoice price.

So invoice +$500 is a AWFUL deal for you...but I'm sure the salesperson will jump all over it (unless they are really trying to milk you).

Heck, Pat offers a no haggle 1% below invoice price for those who are NOT Affiliate members, and 2% below invoice for those that are Affiliate members.

The #1 key in negotiating....know the facts and be willing to walk.

I

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