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Old 07-15-2013, 11:54 PM   #31
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Oh yeah I realise that the pan handle is nothing like some places but where my brother lives they do get a lot of snow some times,Dallhart (sp)(12 hour drive) and it can be a huge factor in traveling . Heck we go years without seeing it here.

I just get tickled when someone says oh you are from whatever state so you only have to deal with such and such conditions.

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Old 07-16-2013, 12:36 AM   #32
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Arizona? Texas? Shoot! Come to Washington and you can be in high plains desert, old-growth rainforest, real mountains with actual glaciers, volcanos, islands, beaches, massive rivers, etcetera. I do like Flagstaff, though. Texas ... not so much.

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Old 07-16-2013, 12:43 AM   #33
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Actually I have been to Washington my dad was born there. I have travelled and seen most of our country, just haven't been along any of the east cost or Florida. Yet another reason why I find it funny when people think a state only has one kind of terrain.

And I don't blame you I don't like 85% of Texas eather.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:23 AM   #34
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Arizona? Texas? Shoot! Come to Washington and you can be in high plains desert, old-growth rainforest, real mountains with actual glaciers, volcanos, islands, beaches, massive rivers, etcetera. I do like Flagstaff, though. Texas ... not so much.
The Pacific northwest is where I really wanted to go after college....but my job took me back home to the Chicago area....been here ever since.
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:01 AM   #35
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"Need" is such an ephemeral word.....

in rural PNW with exposure to everything from heavy fog to slippery grass covered inclines, to mud/snow/ice/political treachery, 3.73 with LSD is an essential.

For *MY* use being without either is a deal breaker.
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:09 AM   #36
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Out of curiosity, what is the difference in rpms running at 70 mph comparing the 3.21 to 3.73 gears?

This could affect the overall MPG too. Lower rpms @ 70 mph, with the 3.21 gears, will also net increased MPG...

For mall crawlers and those living in the flat lands, this could be a consideration...

Cheers/B
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:33 PM   #37
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Out of curiosity, what is the difference in rpms running at 70 mph comparing the 3.21 to 3.73 gears?

This could affect the overall MPG too. Lower rpms @ 70 mph, with the 3.21 gears, will also net increased MPG...

For mall crawlers and those living in the flat lands, this could be a consideration...

Cheers/B
Yeah, maybe if you're you going down hill. Good luck keeping in high gear otherwise, even with the 3.6L. Forget passing.
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:04 AM   #38
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Right now my rpms are at the top of green zone at 75. It seems to be the top speed for comfortable cruising. Any faster and my mpg drops and I feel like Its taking a lot more to go faster. On flat ground, 3.21s probably cruise faster, but I'm glad I have 3.73s for towing and hills.
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:50 AM   #39
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Out of curiosity, what is the difference in rpms running at 70 mph comparing the 3.21 to 3.73 gears?

This could affect the overall MPG too. Lower rpms @ 70 mph, with the 3.21 gears, will also net increased MPG...

For mall crawlers and those living in the flat lands, this could be a consideration...

Cheers/B
Go to the 9th post in this thread and check out derf's website in his sig. That is what I use to calculate rpm's for a given gear ratio.
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Old 07-17-2013, 08:25 AM   #40
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With city driving, 3.21 would have sucked big time. I am very happy with 3.73 and the highway difference will be barely perceptible, until I want to pass someone and I will have a bonus!
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Old 07-17-2013, 08:49 AM   #41
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Go to the 9th post in this thread and check out derf's website in his sig. That is what I use to calculate rpm's for a given gear ratio.
^^^

I'm on the fence as well, w/my pending new '14 order...
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Old 07-17-2013, 08:51 AM   #42
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With city driving, 3.21 would have sucked big time. I am very happy with 3.73 and the highway difference will be barely perceptible, until I want to pass someone and I will have a bonus!
Keep in mind he is looking at a 2 door....so he is already +300 pounds lighter than what you have. I test drove identical Wrangler's except for gears back to back and still went back on forth on the decision.
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Old 07-17-2013, 08:59 AM   #43
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Have to say that I've driven my JKU in rain, snow, ice, mud, and soft sand (mostly on the road) and I've never gotten stuck or felt that I needed an LSD. It does amazing with open diffs and I don't regret passing on the option when I ordered. To me, it was just another repair item.

After 20k miles, I'm very happy with the 3.73s. On the road, even with the stock 17" setup, the performance is just right and I still net 20 mpg.
Two weeks and just 600 miles and I have already had a few instances where the LSD provided an advantage. Would I have been ok with out it? Probably, but it is definitely a lot of additional performance for not a lot of money. There is a reason sports cars, muscle cars and hot rods that never leave the road have used them since the 50s.
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:03 AM   #44
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Keep in mind he is looking at a 2 door....so he is already +300 pounds lighter than what you have. I test drove identical Wrangler's except for gears back to back and still went back on forth on the decision.
One large friend and their bags and you have already made up the weight difference. Is it NEEDED? No. But, the gears and the limited slip are definitely performance enhancers that are very cheap.
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:04 AM   #45
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Keep in mind he is looking at a 2 door....so he is already +300 pounds lighter than what you have. I test drove identical Wrangler's except for gears back to back and still went back on forth on the decision.
My 2012 2dr came with 3.21s and the 32" tires. While it was almost livable, it's not a great combination. I slipped my clutch a lot more than I wanted to in order to get moving. Also, 6th gear was useless on the freeway unless I was going downhill with a tail wind.

If I had intended on staying with the factory tires, I would have gotten 3.73 gears. But my plan all along was to upgrade to 35's and put lockers in so a gear swap was guaranteed. And matching gears to the tires makes a HUGE difference.
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:25 AM   #46
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My 2012 2dr came with 3.21s and the 32" tires. While it was almost livable, it's not a great combination. I slipped my clutch a lot more than I wanted to in order to get moving. Also, 6th gear was useless on the freeway unless I was going downhill with a tail wind.

If I had intended on staying with the factory tires, I would have gotten 3.73 gears. But my plan all along was to upgrade to 35's and put lockers in so a gear swap was guaranteed. And matching gears to the tires makes a HUGE difference.
He is also looking at an auto, that will stay on stock wheels....and you already know how the NAG-1 is geared, plus there is a torque converter.

A 2 door, auto, that will stay stock, on fairly flat ground, is about the only time I'd say 3.21's are a solid choice. Nothing wrong with 3.73's...but in a certain situation, there is nothing wrong with 3.21's.
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:55 AM   #47
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He is also looking at an auto, that will stay on stock wheels....and you already know how the NAG-1 is geared, plus there is a torque converter.

A 2 door, auto, that will stay stock, on fairly flat ground, is about the only time I'd say 3.21's are a solid choice. Nothing wrong with 3.73's...but in a certain situation, there is nothing wrong with 3.21's.
I'd still go with 3.73's based on the torque curve of the engine. They won't kill his highway miles but there's a good possibility his city mileage could improve.
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Old 07-17-2013, 10:06 AM   #48
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I live in the Chicago area and ordered the 3.73 and LSD on my '14 sport. I'd rather have the better pickup with the 3.73 and LSD available just in case. Since it is a higher reving engine, I would atleast have the 3.73 to get better use of the torque curve.
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Old 07-17-2013, 10:12 AM   #49
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I'll put it like this...
As a fellow mall crawler...when I was finally ready to buy...(yeah, it took me like a year and a half to get to that point), I looked at both auto and stick 2 doors, and auto 4 doors. (2012's and 2013's only).

For 4 doors, I would only consider 3.73's.
For 2 door sticks, I would only consider 3.73's.
For 2 door autos, it was basically....flip a coin. If I were buying off the lot, either one would work just for how I would use the Jeep.

------------
My guess is that 3.21's on a 2 door would have saved me money in the long run because I would have been less tempted to say..."Well, since I have 3.73's....I might as well throw on some 33's...and maybe some Rubi rails and Ace sliders....and maybe see if I can find a 10A hood and bumpers....and....what is all this talk about lifts?"......
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:15 AM   #50
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My guess is that 3.21's on a 2 door would have saved me money in the long run because I would have been less tempted to say..."Well, since I have 3.73's....I might as well throw on some 33's...and maybe some Rubi rails and Ace sliders....and maybe see if I can find a 10A hood and bumpers....and....what is all this talk about lifts?"......
Yeah, that was my original intention.

Buy the 2 door and leave it stock for a couple of years while I get my truck back up and running (i.e. finish the transmission swap), and build up my project CJ.

I've had the JK for less than a year and I've already lifted it, swapped the gears and dropped in lockers, put 35's on it, trussed and reinforced the front axle, dropped on a winch bumper and a winch, and I'm about to get the rear bumper to do a better job of holding the spare tire.
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:42 AM   #51
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I am still doind research for a purchase for a 2013 Sport with automatic. For non off-road vehicle, do you think I need ASD and 3.73?

No plans to change the tires or wheels.

Thx!
To echo earlier posts, you don't need them, but they can be nice depending upon your situation. My 2013 Unlimited auto has 3.73's and LSD. It is the same setup I had on my 2009 Unlimited auto. I found the LSD useful, especially in the winter when it wasn't really 4-HI weather, but slippery nonetheless. The LSD is also nice on slippery algae covered concrete boat ramps in the summer. I also drive twice each winter/autumn from Minnesota, though Iowa and down to to Central Illinois. Here both the 3.73's and the LSD are nice. The 3.73's makes it more responsive than a wet sponge on the highway and also really reduced the auto transmission shifting up and down in Iowa (which isn't as flat as you would think east of I-35 & 380). The LSD helps with slippery wet roads, black ice and 2 lane roads where the snow is beaten down instead of plowed - too fast for 4-HI but LSD keeps me going straight instead of drifting out.
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:44 AM   #52
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To echo earlier posts, you don't need them, but they can be nice depending upon your situation. My 2013 Unlimited auto has 3.73's and LSD. It is the same setup I had on my 2009 Unlimited auto. I found the LSD useful, especially in the winter when it wasn't really 4-HI weather, but slippery nonetheless. The LSD is also nice on slippery algae covered concrete boat ramps in the summer. I also drive twice each winter/autumn from Minnesota, though Iowa and down to to Central Illinois. Here both the 3.73's and the LSD are nice. The 3.73's makes it more responsive than a wet sponge on the highway and also really reduced the auto transmission shifting up and down in Iowa (which isn't as flat as you would think east of I-35 & 380). The LSD helps with slippery wet roads, black ice and 2 lane roads where the snow is beaten down instead of plowed - too fast for 4-HI but LSD keeps me going straight instead of drifting out.
Yeah, we're not as flat as Kansas or Nebraska.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:15 PM   #53
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Yeah, we're not as flat as Kansas or Nebraska.
...traveling West on I-84 thru Kansas once, I'm SURE we saw the Very Edge of the Earth just N of the freeway.....
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:18 PM   #54
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I grew up mostly in Des Moines...

Once you get about 30 miles west of the city, it so flat, if it were not for the rockies....you could probably see the Pacific... Eastern Iowa is much more hilly...big rolling hills on I-80.....especially as you close in on the Mississippi...
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:35 PM   #55
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I grew up mostly in Des Moines...

Once you get about 30 miles west of the city, it so flat, if it were not for the rockies....you could probably see the Pacific... Eastern Iowa is much more hilly...big rolling hills on I-80.....especially as you close in on the Mississippi...
I grew up in Des Moines as well. Been in Phoenix for 11 years now.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:40 PM   #56
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I grew up in Des Moines as well. Been in Phoenix for 11 years now.
Iowa, a place to grow.......up in...and leave.

Actually, I do miss Des Moines sometimes...mostly Tasty Taco's, B-Bops, and Big Tomato Pizza. I've been gone for about 13 years myself.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:53 PM   #57
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The best way I figured out how to describe Iowa is: It's a nice place to be from.

I grew up less than a mile from where I live now and left during the dot com explosion vowing never to return.

After some career snafus, I ended up being stuck in Oklahoma (talk about flat) working on a job that was killing my soul. I found a job back home and my sanity has recovered. It works for now. I make really good money and my expenses are very low. The upside is that I get to spend time with my 98 year old grandmother who may not make it to 99.

When the right opportunity comes along I want to move somewhere that has actual mountains again. I miss having good trails nearby to wheel on.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:58 PM   #58
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I'm in Florida and YES i know everyone says we have nice flat roads... which are very poorly maintained for the most part. i plan on getting the 3.73 rear axle and anti spin diff when i order my 14 model.

i feel it would be perfect considering it rains 6 months out of the year and as everyone else has stated the 3.73s are the way to go if you go to a bigger size tire.

i'm sure it will also be a good to have whenever you decide to sell 10 years down the line.

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