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Old 06-15-2014, 03:25 AM   #1
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Auto Start/Stop required on all vehicles!

I was at a Land Rover dealer. He spoke about the auto stop engine feature where the engine shuts off when you stop. It auto starts when let off brake.

He said you could turn it off in the 2014 models. You have to do it every time you "turn the key". Funny thing was he said it will be mandated by 2017(?) as in every vehicle will have it and it will not be something you can disable (at least unmodified vehicle from factory).

It would be interesting on the trail to hear the starter get such a workout. And the battery and the... Well, maybe it will be disabled in 4LO

The 2017 Jeep is going to be a trip.

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Old 06-15-2014, 08:22 AM   #2
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I was at a Land Rover dealer. He spoke about the auto stop engine feature where the engine shuts off when you stop. It auto starts when let off brake.

He said you could turn it off in the 2014 models. You have to do it every time you "turn the key". Funny thing was he said it will be mandated by 2017(?) as in every vehicle will have it and it will not be something you can disable (at least unmodified vehicle from factory).

It would be interesting on the trail to hear the starter get such a workout. And the battery and the... Well, maybe it will be disabled in 4LO

The 2017 Jeep is going to be a trip.
I had this "feature" in a loaner BMW this spring. Incredibly annoying. About a 1/2 second lag getting moving from a stop. It would get old very fast in stop/go traffic.

I did find the "disable" method pretty promptly, but I had to do it at the beginning of every trip. Still somewhat annoying. I'm not a fan in the least.

(All the more reason to grab a nice Tank 15 JK.)

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Old 06-15-2014, 09:10 AM   #3
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I had this "feature" in a loaner BMW this spring. Incredibly annoying. About a 1/2 second lag getting moving from a stop. It would get old very fast in stop/go traffic.

I did find the "disable" method pretty promptly, but I had to do it at the beginning of every trip. Still somewhat annoying. I'm not a fan in the least.

(All the more reason to grab a nice Tank 15 JK.)

V
Imagine one of those traffic lights where the green light is very short. Imagine the traffic backup it would create.
Also, what if some one gets a car they want to drag race? I could maybe see the benifits of it for long redlights, or whatnot, but it seems like it would create more problems than it would solve. Maybe they are doing this to cause problems so that hybrids look more attractive to people.

Though, of course there is a chance its just a bunch of crap too and that guy at the land rover dealership was full of it.
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:25 AM   #4
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Had it in my '13 BMW M3, unlike most others the M model have the feature always off and it has to he turned on if you want it. It was interesting to say the least.

The stater isn't involved at all. The fuel stays pre-compressed in the cylinder, so that when your foot comes off the brake, the spark plugs discharge and the engine turns over. Pretty cool tech; practical, not so much.
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:43 AM   #5
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There is no mandate for start/stop on the books. The only mandate is for improved fuel efficiency.
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:55 AM   #6
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This would royally suck for a manual transmission. In stop and go traffic you would wear out the starter motor. I have heard in a manual the way it works is that if you are coasting slowly with the clutch pedal pressed the engine won't stop until the vehicle reaches a complete stop and the clutch pedal is released. Once you do that the engine stops and restarts when you press the clutch pedal again. I guess you could defeat this by leaving the clutch depressed in this type of driving but what a friggin' joke.

This is just so lame I hope it doesn't happen to the Jeep.

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Old 06-15-2014, 10:20 AM   #7
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It looks like this is called anti-idling. Can you imagine being in a summer NY traffic jam for 1 hour without air conditioning? It may not be reasonable for some people.

Odds are it will be some states that pass a law. Vehicles are built for all states so we may inherit their requirements.

CAFE standards and very real emission problems (smog) are altering the future of cars already. I'm just not sure it will be worse, yet. I think Jeep will be diesel sooner rather than later for this same reason.

The Land Rover higher end line already shaved 800lbs with aluminum. Dealer said it made a huge difference when they drag raced them during the demo. He also said they are open about the LR4 being altered next. They are becoming CAFE desperate like everyone else.

I am becoming convinced that if Jeep changes Wrangler, it will be out of desperation and not intent. They appear to be scrambling to find something new that won't alienate their loyal customer base. That has to be scary.
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Old 06-15-2014, 11:08 AM   #8
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Auto start/stop is one of many technologies that automakers are experimenting with to improve fuel mileage. Some implementations are better than others.

Not that it's perfect, see The Shocking Truth About Start-Stop Systems | The Truth About Cars

Even if Jeep were to implement this on the Wrangler, I'm sure it'd be disabled in 4x4 mode. And if not someone will produce a gizmo to reprogram the computer!
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Old 06-15-2014, 12:09 PM   #9
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Wranglers already have this feature, on those destined for Europe.

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Old 06-15-2014, 01:01 PM   #10
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I sell Land Rovers and Jaguars and this feature has to meet certain parameters before it will turn off. If the cabin temp is not where the driver set it or not able to maintain passenger comfort while stopped it will not shut off. If the batteries are not at full charge the car will not shut off. If the engine is not at temp or if it is hot it will not shut off. The starter in jags and rovers is a heavy duty one designed for this system.

The sales rep was not full of it when he said it was going away. land Rover opted to put the option of turning it off at a huge expense. The option to turn it off will go away in the next 2 years.

We have switched to aluminum for weight and are now using 3l supercharged engines in the sport and range rover and 2l turbo engines in the evoque and lr2. The 5l is still an option in the sport and range rover. Shaving 800 pounds on the range rover made a huge difference in fuel savings.
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Old 06-15-2014, 01:59 PM   #11
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I sell Land Rovers and Jaguars
What do you think of the LR4? It looks pretty nice. The only negative thing I can find is the traction control can heat the brakes (just like with any BLD). Then again, maybe other vehicles wouldn't have made it up the same obstacle.

The LR4 is hard to find and impossible to find with HD package (locking rear?).

BTW, does anyone know the side tip over angle for a stock JKURX?
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Old 06-15-2014, 10:22 PM   #12
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What do you think of the LR4? It looks pretty nice. The only negative thing I can find is the traction control can heat the brakes (just like with any BLD). Then again, maybe other vehicles wouldn't have made it up the same obstacle.

The LR4 is hard to find and impossible to find with HD package (locking rear?).

BTW, does anyone know the side tip over angle for a stock JKURX?
The lr4 is my favorite in the LAnd Rover/ Range Rover line. I have beat the crap out of land rovers off road and never had an issue with the brakes heating up.
LR4's are very scarce right now just like the rest of the cars. We have a 4 month with for the LR4 right now.
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:21 AM   #13
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The lr4 is my favorite in the LAnd Rover/ Range Rover line. I have beat the crap out of land rovers off road and never had an issue with the brakes heating up.
LR4's are very scarce right now just like the rest of the cars. We have a 4 month with for the LR4 right now.
One thing is for sure, Jeep needs to have an offroad course for demo purposes. I nearly soiled myself at 35degree side hill. Not sure a rubicon can do that. Land Rover said it will go to 45 degrees. Nervous passenger. Right here.

Seriously cool looking vehicles. They don't do well in ratings but seemed very competitive to me. I also love the articulation graphic on the console. Very sweet. Expensive but sweet looking and with major expensive details like supercharger. Can you lift them easily?
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Old 06-16-2014, 01:12 AM   #14
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One thing is for sure, Jeep needs to have an offroad course for demo purposes. I nearly soiled myself at 35degree side hill. Not sure a rubicon can do that. Land Rover said it will go to 45 degrees. Nervous passenger. Right here.

Seriously cool looking vehicles. They don't do well in ratings but seemed very competitive to me. I also love the articulation graphic on the console. Very sweet. Expensive but sweet looking and with major expensive details like supercharger. Can you lift them easily?
You can get a switch to change the sensor for the height adjuster. It will make the off road height your normal height and give you a bump from there when you raise it again. Since it's a full air suspension there is no easy way to lift it unless you got rid of the bags and blocked it.

Wait until you see the wade sensor and the heads up display for seeing under the car for off roading.
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:04 AM   #15
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Wait until you see the wade sensor and the heads up display for seeing under the car for off roading.
I saw a video of the system that shows a ghosted image as if you were looking right through the hood at the ground. That is very cool.

The engine start/stop thing would probably drive me nuts. I think the manufacturers are at the point now where all the easy fuel conservation tricks are done. All thats left is major stuff like shaving hundreds of pounds to get that last 1/2 MPG out of them.

Look at how hard Ford has worked at it. In just a few years, their mainstream truck went from a standard V8 to a twin turbo V6, and now will have an aluminum body. Think of the billions they spent on development to get the MPG to meet CAFE standards.
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:56 AM   #16
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The engine start/stop thing would probably drive me nuts.
My hybrid, of course, had the stop/start thing. It never bothered me, and there was comfort that you weren't burning thru gas at the long, very long, red light.

Though, on a hybrid, you can start moving immediately under electric power when the light turned green, until the gas engine was started, and there wasn't really a starter. The electric motor started the gas engine so there wasn't any "whine" from a little starter motor spinning like crazy on the fly wheel.

Today, with my JK, I just sit at that same long red light, with nothing to do, but watch the gas gauge needle slowly edge down.
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Old 06-21-2014, 08:48 AM   #17
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I saw a video of the system that shows a ghosted image as if you were looking right through the hood at the ground. That is very cool.

The engine start/stop thing would probably drive me nuts. I think the manufacturers are at the point now where all the easy fuel conservation tricks are done. All thats left is major stuff like shaving hundreds of pounds to get that last 1/2 MPG out of them.

Look at how hard Ford has worked at it. In just a few years, their mainstream truck went from a standard V8 to a twin turbo V6, and now will have an aluminum body. Think of the billions they spent on development to get the MPG to meet CAFE standards.
And I wonder who get's to pay for those costs??? Joe-average consumer.

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Old 06-21-2014, 09:54 AM   #18
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One thing is for sure, Jeep needs to have an offroad course for demo purposes. I nearly soiled myself at 35degree side hill. Not sure a rubicon can do that. Land Rover said it will go to 45 degrees. Nervous passenger. Right here.

Seriously cool looking vehicles. They don't do well in ratings but seemed very competitive to me. I also love the articulation graphic on the console. Very sweet. Expensive but sweet looking and with major expensive details like supercharger. Can you lift them easily?
The local dealership barrel-rolled one off the side hill. I don't know if a customer was in the LR, but it sat upside down for a full day...on the busiest 4 lane road in town. Priceless.
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Old 06-21-2014, 10:24 AM   #19
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Wranglers already have this feature, on those destined for Europe.

That is a dashboard for a diesel, as you can tell from the 4000RPM redline.

Damn I wish we could get that here. It would be interesting to know whether Start/Stop is disabled automatically in 4x4, or only in 4-lo, or not at all.
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:08 PM   #20
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Damn I wish we could get that here. It would be interesting to know whether Start/Stop is disabled automatically in 4x4, or only in 4-lo, or not at all.
I tried to see if I could find the European Owners Manual or something similar on-line, to see if happens to go into such detail. Unfortunately, I couldn't find such info. Though, it can be manually disabled (the setup option is displayed on the EVIC in that pic).
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:17 PM   #21
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How does this save fuel, Doesn't starting and stopping your vehicle waste gas by needing to inject more fuel to start the ignition process? plus the wear and tear. I could be wrong though.
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:37 PM   #22
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I'm just reiterating something said above but the engine stops at the end of the compression stroke and when it's time to go, the spark plug ignites causing combustion and turning the engine over.
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:53 PM   #23
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I can't imagine the amount of fuel saved is significant. Even at rush hour in a big city, traffic is usually creeping, so all this really accomplishes is wearing out you starter prematurely. But as usual, it's symbolism over substance.
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:03 PM   #24
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Actually, fuel savings are significant. That's why the technology is used in most hybrids & Hi-MPG Diesels.

I am not a fan, & neither are most consumers, which is why hybrids are not popular even with the many incentives offered.

As consumer demand drives the market, I don't see this 'feature' being mandated.

Just my opinion tho...
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Old 06-22-2014, 02:07 PM   #25
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I have 2 hybrids Escapes (not current body style) at work for my group and they do that start/stop. I haven't found it to be an issue. It's noticeable at first, but after a day or so, you don't even notice it.
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Old 06-22-2014, 02:55 PM   #26
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So essentially, we will all be driving a larger version of the gas powered golf cart. Awesome.
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Old 06-22-2014, 03:01 PM   #27
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The equivalent of $8+ per gallon for fuel in various European countries makes this a very attractive fuel saving feature in such places. It is barely noticeable. If you drive like I do and leave your foot depressed the clutch pedal at traffic lights then the engine does not shut off (at least not on the European car I drove recently, Jetta diesel). Like one of the posters mentioned above, there would are a lot of parameters involved that would not allow the engine to shut down, but any time the engine is not running is fuel saved. Of course, the equivalent of 50 mpg was not so bad either. It sure would be nice to get better than 21-22 mpg (hwy) on my JK but that is much better than the TJ ever did (18 mpg on a good day).

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