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Back to the dealer...again

10K views 119 replies 42 participants last post by  brandofamily 
#1 ·
Let me start off by saying that when I first bought my Jeep it started to having the wonderful water leak from the Freedom tops, after 4 trips they finally "fixed" it. So the next few months were nice as I wasn't worrying about how much water was sitting in my vehicle when it rained. Here in south east Michigan it has been raining for the past 12 hours, not hard but consistent.

I get in the Jeep this morning and notice a few runs down the passenger side lower trim, under the door. I started to feel around and there it is, wet carpet again. Looks like I will be calling the dealer again to have to them fix this...again.

I am now at the point where I almost completely regret buying this vehicle. I have never owned any type of vehicle where every time it rains I have to check to see if its leaking again. Jeep/FCA has dropped the ball on the design of these vehicles.

I have owned two GM vehicles, a Ford, and now a Jeep. The GMs were the only ones that I did not have any major problems with.
 
#2 ·
Sorry for your luck. I have the same Year & Model and my leaks a few times after I had removed/reinstalled the freedom tops. Turns out I had over-tightened the screw latches. Once I backed those out to barely tight, the leaks stopped and the screws held fine.

Hope you get this sorted out...
 
#3 ·
Might want to try pulling the tops off, and adding some dielectric grease or equivalent to the seals, then re-secure them. Do this for the door seals also, as the dielectric grease will keep them plump and not flattened and dry. I am not impressed with the Freedom top either, but maybe a few tweaks will help, I keep my Jeep in the garage as much as possible now. My known leak area is right above the radio, which just so happens to not be waterproof, like a lot of other things in the cabin/dash, why the interior/electronics aren't waterproofed is beyond me.
 
#70 ·
Glad to hear your are happy with your Trektop NX! Here at Bestop we are aware that there is a stigma about running a soft top during the winter and many people put the hardtop back on. However, we have built our tops to withstand the weather and function for year-round use! We hope you continue to enjoy your NX!
*CassieAtBestop
 
#8 · (Edited)
Jeep/FCA has dropped the ball on the design of these vehicles.

I have owned two GM vehicles, a Ford, and now a Jeep. The GMs were the only ones that I did not have any major problems with.
Sorry to hear about your issue.

But firstly, it was not Chrysler nor FCA who "dropped the ball" designing these vehicles, it was DAIMLERChrysler. The reason I say this is because I have owned Chrysler products for 30 years and they became visibly decontented and cheapened under Daimler ownership. In fact, most of the improvements to JK came well after Daimler parted.

Secondly, Wranglers have a well documented track record over 75 years for providing bare minimum protection from the elements. Even JKs, as modern and up-to-date as they appear maintain this tradition. So, to blankly accuse "Jeep" of not being as good as GM or Ford based on this is like buying an orange and then saying that it's not as good as apple pie.

Water leaks can be a real annoyance, no doubt, but you should have known that it could be a real possibility about owning a Wrangler.

IMHO, there is a "Wrangler Bubble" going on right now. I see Lexus and BMW owners, Honda employees, long-time Corolla owners, etc., all seeing themselves owning a Wrangler. Some of them turn out liking it, but Wranglers are very quirky and clearly not for everyone and some turn up not liking it.

I hope you get the dealer to resolve your issue so you can discover the fun of owning a Wrangler.

Good luck,

Aldo
 
#10 ·
Sorry to hear about your issue.

But firstly, it was not Chrysler nor FCA who "dropped the ball" designing these vehicles, it was DAIMLERChrysler. The reason I say this is because I have owned Chrysler products for 30 years and they became visibly decontented and cheapened under Daimler ownership.

Secondly, Wranglers have a well documented track record of 75 years for providing bare minimum protection from the elements. Even JKs, as modern and up-to-date as they appear maintain this tradition. So, to claim all of "Jeep" is worse than GM or Ford bass on this is like buying an orange and then complaining that it's not as good as apple pie.

Water leaks can be a real annoyance. But you should have known that it could be a real possibility before owning a Wrangler.

IMHO, there is a "Wrangler Bubble" going on right now. I see Lexus owners, Honda employees, long-time Corolla owners, etc., all seeing themselves owning a Wrangler. Some of them turn out liking it, but Wranglers are very quirky and clearly not for everyone and some turn up not liking it.

I hope you get the dealer to resolve your issue so you can find the fun of owning a Wrangler.

Good luck,

Aldo
I see your point on them being quirky, which somethings I have looked past (rusty hinges and loud cabin for example) and enjoyed the vehicle the past 3 which I didn't notice the leak on the passenger side.

Now, any newer $35-40k vehicle should not have the possibility to leak water IMO. I realize that all vehicles can leak water, it just does not seem to be such a common problem in those.

The explosion of Wrangler ownership is nice and is probably why I own one now, but you can only go off past experiences to form opinions. That is why I compared GM, Ford, and Jeep as that is what I have owned.

Thanks
 
#9 ·
I am now at the point where I almost completely regret buying this vehicle. I have never owned any type of vehicle where every time it rains I have to check to see if its leaking again. Jeep/FCA has dropped the ball on the design of these vehicles.
The flip side is that the Wrangler is designed primarily to be an open air vehicle. That's one of its very unique design points, and therefore Jeep/FCA was right on target in its design. I bet that alone makes it very different from those GM and Ford vehicles you owned.

The tops are like an umbrella. They keep most of the rain off of you. If your feet still get wet, that doesn't mean the umbrella is poorly designed.
 
#22 ·
I did try 303 on the seals and carefully installed my freedom tops... They still leak right above the radio. I keep a small microfiber cloth on the dash to catch the drips. Dealer suggested Chapstick but I'm going to try silicone grease. I only use my hard top in winter and will switch to the soft top in spring anyway. It's a Jeep so I live with it.
 
#15 ·
I am not brand loyal and buy what I like. I can tell you that they all have their problems. They have not made the perfect vehicle yet and likely never will. As for leaks mine does on the passenger side door but only sometimes. I thought I had it licked but it leaked at the car wash the other day. Maybe it is time for more Honda grease. I don't think it is terrible for a vehicle that has removable doors/roof and others have it way worse than I do. Hell there are several guys on the Ford sites complaining about their new F150 having a leaky sunroof right off the lot. They spent 60k and their roof and doors don't come off at all. I just try to fix what I can and learn to live with the stuff I can't. Life is too short to be unhappy with your ride.
 
#16 ·
I took my Jeep in 4 times within the 1st 2-3 months for a leaky hard top. Finally fixed it the last time, at least is was for a little while. Service manager told me jeeps leak best we can do is try to manage the leaks. Not what you want to hear when you drop almost 40K on a new ride. This spring I bought a new soft top and actually haven't had an issue with leaks. Here is a video on how you can fix that leak if you want to add a piece of weather stripping to your door.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAQi4Uzi8PY
 
#18 ·
I took my Jeep in 4 times within the 1st 2-3 months for a leaky hard top. Finally fixed it the last time, at least is was for a little while. Service manager told me jeeps leak best we can do is try to manage the leaks. Not what you want to hear when you drop almost 40K on a new ride. This spring I bought a new soft top and actually haven't had an issue with leaks. Here is a video on how you can fix that leak if you want to add a piece of weather stripping to your door.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAQi4Uzi8PY
Where did you buy that type of weather stripping?
 
#17 ·
Out of the many tens of thousands they have sold over the last several years, you read about some people having leak issues. I'd say leaks are the exception.
Take it back, make them fix it. If three times doesn't get it it fixed, then lemon law it.
Mine leaked. Took it in. They didn't fix it after replacing the door seal. I told them exactly where it was leaking from, which they ignored. I felt they were totally incompetent, so I investigated it, and fixed it for no cost. It was just a wrinkle in the rubber near the top of the A-pillar.
Simple.
 
#19 ·
I keep my door gaskets lubed with silicone. Has not leaked since. try that for the top.
 
#20 ·
I had the body panels inside the door coated with CQuartz Finest when the rest of the Wrangler was done. Since then. my passenger door has not leaked a drop. The hydrophobic nature of the CQuartz must have had a part in better water drainage.

FYI, my passenger side door has been leaking since day 1. Actually, when i picked it up from the dealer, the floors were damp, but I thought that they had washed the carpets for me. The Jeep/Mopar slush mats also prevent the water from getting to the carpet. Any leaking I had seeped into the slush mats.
 
#24 ·
Sorry to hear your issues, I am currently on my second jeep because of this same issue. My first one was a '14 JKU and was in and out of the shop 9 times in the first year. The last time they had it, it was there for 36 days. Over the 9 times, they replaced every single seal and gasket there is that has anything to do with the top. They tweeked the doors trying to get a better seal, replaced all 3 pieces of the top, filled the seals with a silicon type material, they even brought in Chryslers "star team" and still couldn't figure out the issue. They would fix it on one side and it would just move to another place. Finally I called Chrysler customer service and they started the buy back process. In the mean time, I spoke with the general manager at the dealer and they said they would prefer to take care of it their self. In the end, I ended up with a '15 equipped exactly the same an extra $2000 for my trouble and a jeep that does not leak. I have had my new jeep for about 9 months or so now and no leaks what so ever. The top has been off about 15 times and still no issues. Hope everything works out for you. Sorry for the long post.
 
#33 ·
Another option on grease, I've used it for years, works double duty on electrical connections.

I would strongly recommend against anything containing silicone, since it can be a serious problem when you have to repaint. If you have a dent or collision and have to get paint work done, or you just want to repaint your Jeep down the road, getting paint to adhere to any surface infected with silicone will be very difficult, even if sanded down to the bare metal.

I'd find a different solution. No Armor All or silicone grease... And you shouldn't have to resort to this stuff to make the seals work. But if you insist on something to soften the rubber parts, use mineral oil like baby oil or petroleum jelly. Way cheaper, works better and doesn't ruin the finish for future paint adhesion.
 
#27 ·
It sucks that it leaks but to compare a Wrangler to any other vehicle is mistake. People have complained about soft and hard tops leaking on these vehicles for years, its well documented but you have to consider the wrangler. How many other vehicles out there have the ability to fully change/remove the external walls and even then how many are as complex as a Wranglers? The number of contact points that could leak from a Wrangler top far outweigh any other convertible on the market. Once again though, complaints on this have been around for years and were long before you bought your JK, blaming Chrysler for your lack of investigation before putting $30-40k down on a vehicle isn't their fault. I hope the grease or other solutions in this tread help you love your Jeep again but next time I would do some more research.
 
#28 ·
I really hate hearing, its been this way for years, as an excuse. If any other business used that as their slogan for shoddy workmanship, they would go out of business. Remember, Chrysler or Fiat are barely staying above water, they need to step up and do better, not stick their heads in the sand and hope it all works out in the end.
 
#30 ·
First of all, I have to agree that leaks in a $30K+ vehicle regardless of historical quirks is totally unacceptable. Mine leaked too, it's a design problem and not an assembly problem. Face it: the top design for the folding top on a Wrangler sucks. That's all there is to it. It is an amazing chore to open and close. It is shockingly easy to screw up the seals. I only have to assume that it's Jeep owners' historical willingness to put up with this that has impeded design improvements. Either that or the economic disincentives for American car companies to have to do anything right in order to compete... but I'll ignore that for now.

My 15-year-old Miata had ZERO leaks. I was an active member of the Miata owners' community and leaks were simply not tolerated with these cars and they almost never leak. Virtually all "leaks" were not leaks at all but due to the drains in the car being clogged. The top was a fraction of the size of my JKU's top but it still would go up and down with one hand from the driver's seat and I literally moved that top up and down at least once a day for 15 years running and NEVER did I have to adjust, replace, move, fiddle with or in any way mess with a single seal. Never. Ever. But in the very first week I had to monkey with the seals in my brand new Jeep. I'm not new to convertibles. I'm just new to American cars with extremely poor design.

Now after adjusting the door striker position, reworking one rear door weatherstrip that was poorly fit from the factory and likely will continue to be a problem going forward due to bad design, and then redoing the front door surround a few times I managed to get mine to not leak. But I'm taking the carpet out and planning on suffering with leaks with this thing for the long haul. It's just a crappy design and that's all there is to it. I figure an aftermarket top may improve things since half the problem is the top. But half the problem is the door surrounds and the doors themselves. I'm not going to put up with leaks so if I have to find a way to make it work I will. But the design of this thing is a joke. The design of a lot of things in my new JK is a joke, so I'm not that surprised. But you'd figure with half a century of practice Jeep engineers would be able to get this right when Mazda pulled it off with the very first Miata to roll off the assembly line.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Geez, here we go again...comparing a 2-seat, 2,600lb, road-only roadster to an all-weather, 5-people + cargo, 3+ doors, 4400lb off-roader?

For that matter, Mustangs don't leak either...maybe I should have gotten one of those instead...
 
#34 ·
Geez, here we go again...comparing a 2-seat, 2,600lb, road-only roadster to an all-weather, 5-people + camping cargo, 3+ doors, 4400lb off-roader?

For that matter, Mustangs don't leak either...maybe I should have gotten one of those instead...
I'll accept the leaks, if they make the dashboard/interior completely waterproof, so we can drive in the rain with the top off. See, I want to compromise, but they failed on this too.
 
#38 ·
In my frustration and anger I failed to mention where this leak was coming from.

It is coming from the B pillar on the passenger side. I snapped some pics yesterday and can post if they are requested. When looking in the light yesterday I could see that the water was coming in from the mucket.
 
#48 ·
I had that on my 2010 hard top also. The water gets in where they laminate the top and bottom parts of the tops together. Where the white underside meets the black top side. That joint/seal gets dried, cracked etc. and separates allowing water to get in from the channels between the main top and the freedom tops. I had it only in my freedom tops, so I took black rtv sealant and filled in all the seams. No more sloshing.

There is a weep hole in the freedome tops, turn them and shake the water out of that weep hole first, then seal them up.
 
#49 ·
When I bought my new Jeep the first thing the dealer said was to expect leaks. That really says it all. You would think that Fiat-Chrysler could design a hard top system that doesn't leak- ever. But over time the seals get depressed and then the owner gets depressed when they start leaking. My second go-around involved three trips that included re-positioning the passenger door. When that didn't work, they replaced all of the seals and voila! no more leaks.
Overtightening the screws into the roll bar can cause problems- just firmly tight, not hard tight (too little and they will fall out eventually). And make sure your freedom panels are properly seated. Finally, carefully clean the seals to make sure there are no pine needles or other debris before re-installing the panels. All of this will minimize the likelihood of leaks.
At the end of the day leaks are a "Jeep thing"_ just another quirk of these machines most of us can't wait to drive and ogle.
 
#50 ·
At the end of the day leaks are a "Jeep thing"_ just another quirk of these machines most of us can't wait to drive and ogle.
For the price tag there is no excuse or reasoning. The whole Jeep thing pertaining to leaks is unacceptable. They have been around a while, sound by now this should have been figured out.
 
#53 ·
I have owned two GM vehicles, a Ford, and now a Jeep. The GMs were the only ones that I did not have any major problems with.

Thank you.

As for the JK, sometimes you have to take ownership of the problem. You want it fixed more than the dealer does. I fixed my roof leak by pressurizing the cabin via the HVAC fan and used a soap/water solution to find the air/water leak location. Once the location of the unsealed area is known, you can go from there.
 
#54 ·
When I bought my new Jeep the first thing the dealer said was to expect leaks. That really says it all.
That's absolutely ridiculous. I'm on my third trip to the dealer to fix my roof leak and if it's still not fixed, I'm considering it a lemon. Is it an annoyance and probably not the biggest deal in the world? Yes. But if I felt like dealing with a roof leak, I would have purchased a used Wrangler and used it as a second car. Sorry, it's not okay to accept a leak on a brand new car.
 
#55 ·
Sorry, it's not okay to accept a leak on a brand new car.
Absolutely agree.

And on that note, I went out today during our torrential rains we are having here and found it leaking from no fewer than four places.

The front driver door nylon retention strap is soaking wet, don't know where that water is coming in. Front passenger top of the A pillar is leaking again, just like last weekend, which I sorted last weekend and it went away but it's back. Guess that's what I get for putting the top down and back up. Also now a huge leak at the passenger B pillar, like a faucet, had to take the drain plug out of the passenger rear footwell. And the same C pillar leak as last week is back again. Seems if you don't monitor the way the seal sits against the top when you close the rear door, it may potentially leak, a lot. You can't just close the door and be done with it.

I already am somewhat ticked at my dealer and I've only owned this jeep less than a month and it has just turned a thousand miles. I'm going to bring it back to them just to establish there is a problem. In the end, I figure I'll wind up fixing it myself.

This is really totally unacceptable for any new car. Don't tell me "it's a Jeep thing", because what that says is, Jeeps are horrible quality, deal with it. Yeah, maybe they are. But if at least one JKU was made that won't leak then they all can be made not to leak.
 
#56 ·
When jeep was new there were no leak issues.
At 3 years the leaks started.
It is a 2011 sport with half doors.
Took the advice of members and lubed the gaskets.
Major rains the past few days and no leaks.
make lube, not war.
 
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