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Old 09-25-2013, 10:04 AM   #1
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Battery power!!!

I have been thinking about betteries a lot lately. Indiana gets chilly and we are fast approaching winter. My OEM battery is 30 months old, and I am sure it was not spec'ed to handle additional lights, an e-locker, and a winch.

So here are my questions to the Interweb.... What are the specs of the OE battery (CCA etc)? I can't find much info on this part. How long are most people getting out of their orignal batteries with mods?

Finally, I am looking to replace with a Diehard Platinum, 850 CCA, non-spillable, deep cycle. Is anyone using this specific battery right now?

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Old 09-25-2013, 10:23 AM   #2
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Most OEM batteries are 600 to 650 CCA. If I remember correctly there are only about 4 companies that make batteries now as the big companies have swallowed up all the little guys and as a result quality has gone in the toilet. You are lucky to get 4 years out of a battery now. If you are in the market for a new one and don't mind spending some money I would recomend an Odyssey AGM or the Sears Diehard Platinum (USA only, we can't get the Platinum where I am at) it is made for Sears by Odyssey and is the same battery for less money. The Odyssey in my F150 is 950 CCA and 1250 CA. It is a beast of a battery and there is no off gasing because it is an AGM but the cost might make you pass out.

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Old 09-25-2013, 10:47 AM   #3
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Sears Die Hard Platinum. Don't bother with anything else. I used to swear by Optima until they moved their production to Mexico and their QC went down the tubes.
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Old 09-25-2013, 05:10 PM   #4
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I am running a diehard platinum. Has worked great. No problems even after camping for 3 days and running an ARB fridge/freezer.
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:23 PM   #5
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AGM's off gas. Only a gel cell wont. In my side by side by side comparison the sears platinum is already out at only 340+- cycles. Its down to the optima and oddessy. Optimas are just fine. I sell 30 a week easy and rarely get a warranty issue. Just like everything on the internet.. a problem was over exaggerated and nobody had any real info on what had happened. Turned out that optima got a batch of contaminated (Li Ion) lead. One batch batch produces 10,000+- batteries. So before they knew what happened they already produced and sold a lot of batteries with an excessive self discharge rate. Since then they have absolutely lead the industry in quality control and customer support.
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:43 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by corvallisbattery View Post
AGM's off gas. Only a gel cell wont. In my side by side by side comparison the sears platinum is already out at only 340+- cycles. Its down to the optima and oddessy. Optimas are just fine. I sell 30 a week easy and rarely get a warranty issue. Just like everything on the internet.. a problem was over exaggerated and nobody had any real info on what had happened. Turned out that optima got a batch of contaminated (Li Ion) lead. One batch batch produces 10,000+- batteries. So before they knew what happened they already produced and sold a lot of batteries with an excessive self discharge rate. Since then they have absolutely lead the industry in quality control and customer support.
That may be the case, but it's how optima handles the problem that bothered me. On my s2000 forum, I am the ONLY person that had a functioning Optima yellowtop, everyone else's failed inside of 3 months. It got so bad I told everyone to stay away from them. You claim it was bad lead. Fine. Optima refused to warranty their batteries, and blame ALL the people on user error, buying it from a non authorized source, whatever. That alone will make me dump a manufacturer. I don't care that the sears unit lasted 340 cycles while the others are still going. The fact is, I can go to sears and get a brand new one in 5 minutes, and not need to deal with these idiot companies trying to claim user error. I appreciate you taking the time to run the test, but there is a lot more to a product that just raw numbers. In your estimation, how long of a time span is 340 cycles in real world use?
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:07 PM   #7
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I do agree that good customer service does count. However when I. Am in the back woods some where at o'dark something, all I care about is the battery working.

I have heard rumors of optima loosing QC, every company falls off now and again. But to say ( knowing that the Sears battery fails sooner with tests) that you would would get that Sears battery anyway. All I have to say is wow.

I hope you carry a spare with you. Good luck!
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:45 PM   #8
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I actually just swore off odyssey last weak after having to return a battery within the 3 year warranty and having my warranty "denied". They tried to give me the "user error" argument because I had jumped it after it died... yada yada yada. The battery was dead and even my optima charger wouldn't bring it back. The only reason I had to jump it was because I had no choice it was already a "bad battery" by that point. Anyway, I ate a $350 battery and told batteries plus to tell odyssey to suck it from now on...
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:53 PM   #9
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I do agree that good customer service does count. However when I. Am in the back woods some where at o'dark something, all I care about is the battery working.

I have heard rumors of optima loosing QC, every company falls off now and again. But to say ( knowing that the Sears battery fails sooner with tests) that you would would get that Sears battery anyway. All I have to say is wow.

I hope you carry a spare with you. Good luck!
Any battery can fail at any time. Your argument is flawed. My Sears battery (or any other maker) can be fine for 13 months, and when I take a trip on the 14th, it might crap out...bad battery? No. My point was simple. Optima had a boatload a battery failures. I don't care about the reason. If his reason is true, then it's even worse (since Optima knew they had a problem and still denied warranties). I have a yellow top in my s2000, my second one. The first one lasted 2 years. Tried to get it warrantied, got the user error crap. Didn't have any other deep cycle options at the time, so I bought another one. So far it's still alive, but it sits 99.9% in a trickle charger and the vehicle isn't driven. If they are so confident about their batteries, they can at least honor their warranties. I know a number of people that run die hard platinums, and they have been going strong for years (which is why I asked what 340 cycles equates to in the real world). I assure you, I use my batteries off the grid more than most, and would have no qualms about running a Die Hard Platinum. I don't trust optima, and thats the truth. I don't want to wonder if I got a bad battery or a good one.
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:55 PM   #10
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Same Optima experience. Not again. Customer service matters.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:01 PM   #11
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Oh, and one more thing, both Die Hard Platinums and Odyssey's are made by Enersys. Here is an email from a member on another forum to a rep and his reply...

Quote:
David:

That is a very astute observation. We private label the Sears DieHard
Platinum batteries and they are rebadged Odyssey batteries.

Thanks.

Kalyan Jana

Development Support Manager - Specialty Markets

Desk: (660) 429-7505

Cell: (816) 308-1543
Fax: (660) 429-1758

EnerSys Home


-----Original Message-----
From: Niethammer, Carlene
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 6:42 AM
To: Jana, Kalyan
Subject: FW: Website Visitor Comments / Inquiry



-----Original Message-----
From: db@ilikecoconuts.com [mailto:db@ilikecoconuts.com]
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 6:57 PM
To: Niethammer, Carlene
Subject: Website Visitor Comments / Inquiry


Comments
Hello,

I recently discovered the Sears DieHard Platinum line of batteries and I
noticed they look identical to the Odyssey line. Is there a difference
between the two?

Thanks for your time.

David Baker
So if Die Hards suck, then Odyssey's do as well, since one is just a rebadged other.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:11 PM   #12
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Curiousity got the better of me, and Im trying to find something about the bad lead thing...nothing, including from Optima employees. Nowhere does anyone mention about an "obvious" quality control problem (which they would know if they got a shipment of bad lead that made its way into 10000 batteries.

Here is a response from an Optima Employee on a boat forum...

Quote:
Hello Outlaw (and everyone else),

I apologize for the delay in my response. This is just about our busiest time of the year, as many of the events we sponsor are taking place right now and our planning for SEMA is in full swing. Redding Rate & Ross, I’m sorry to hear about the problems you’ve been having and I’d like to help. Can you tell me a little bit more about your applications, the symptoms surrounding your problems and the voltage of the batteries you brought in for warranty service? 2manymustangs is correct- Johnson Controls (not Interstate Batteries) acquired Optima in 2000 and the quality of our batteries has continually improved under their ownership. We still manufacture all of our own batteries, in our own facility and they are the only batteries made there. We never re-brand or re-spec our batteries for anyone.

I should mention that none of our batteries are “gel” batteries. In most situations, our batteries can be treated and charged just like any other lead-acid battery, but using charger settings for “gel” or “gel/AGM” will not fully-charge an Optima and could damage it over time.

TxStVanwilder, could you please PM me the name of the car/boat/home audio shop that sells our batteries and doesn’t believe they can be stored on the floor, as we’d like to contact them. As Pesky Varmint indicated, all modern batteries can be stored on concrete, although they do best in cool, dry locations.

As Outlaw indicated, our 34M is the marine equivalent of our Group 34 RedTop and does come with additional threaded studs for marine accessories. Although I do not have specific pricing information, as that varies by retailer, BlueTops do come with a two-year free replacement warranty, while RedTops come with a three-year free replacement warranty. If anyone has any questions about our batteries, I’ll do my best to answer them.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
The bold is a typical response. I haven't seen an optima rep own up to a "we have a lead problem, what's the serial number of your battery or the production date."
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:03 AM   #13
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Don't know have had a optima battery in my wife's mini cooper since 2007 and was warrantied out in 2010 with no questions asked. No issues since then. Been running them in my jeeps no issue.

Can't comment why your warr are being denied.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:09 AM   #14
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Warranties have a lot do to with where you shop. At my business I don't even require a receipt. They are all date coded and each shop (a real one) will have addition info burned in to identify if it came from them. As an authorized and factory trained tech from enersys, trojan, Johnson controls and deka I have the authority to deny or accept a warranty. User error is a bull shit cop out that shops use to get out of standing behind their product. My moto and what i tell every customer is this
"There is no recipet needed for any sort of warranty issues. In some cases we may need to charge the battery for up to 5 hours to determine if a battery fault is present, you will be provided a loaner to use for up to 7 days. Transfer of ownership does not effect warranty. If its mine, and its bad.. we take care of it. No questions"
I could say that in my sleep as I prob recite it 20 times a day
As with anything, you tend to only hear about the bad and never the good
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Old 09-26-2013, 07:34 AM   #15
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Warranties have a lot do to with where you shop. At my business I don't even require a receipt. They are all date coded and each shop (a real one) will have addition info burned in to identify if it came from them. As an authorized and factory trained tech from enersys, trojan, Johnson controls and deka I have the authority to deny or accept a warranty. User error is a bull shit cop out that shops use to get out of standing behind their product. My moto and what i tell every customer is this
"There is no recipet needed for any sort of warranty issues. In some cases we may need to charge the battery for up to 5 hours to determine if a battery fault is present, you will be provided a loaner to use for up to 7 days. Transfer of ownership does not effect warranty. If its mine, and its bad.. we take care of it. No questions"
I could say that in my sleep as I prob recite it 20 times a day
As with anything, you tend to only hear about the bad and never the good
Well, then you are a rare breed. Most people I know buy their optimas online and have to deal with the manufacturer directly for warranty claims. We also don't have many mom and pop auto stores here, its just Autozone, Pepboys, etc so everything is corporate BS.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:25 AM   #16
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I'm still curious to know what 340 cycles equates to in real life scenarios.

For that matter, what is a "cycle" as it pertains to the test?

Also, any test that uses only a single example of a product such as a battery is going to be flawed. Every product has bad units. A hard drive may appear perfectly fine when it leaves the factory, but give it a few reads/writes and it may fail. It's a fact of life and how the manufacturer handles it is what wins customers.

I have a feeling corvallisbattery may have just gotten a DHP that was not up to standards.

Vibration, extreme heat, and extreme cold kills batteries. How much of each was the sample battery subjected to before the test was performed.

One more thing, I read somewhere that Die Hard Platinums are now manufactured by Deka. Not sure if that's true and don't remember where I read it, just throwing that out there.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:27 AM   #17
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I'm still curious to know what 340 cycles equates to in real life scenarios.

For that matter, what is a "cycle" as it pertains to the test?

Also, any test that uses only a single example of a product such as a battery is going to be flawed. Every product has bad units. A hard drive may appear perfectly fine when it leaves the factory, but give it a few reads/writes and it may fail. It's a fact of life and how the manufacturer handles it is what wins customers.

I have a feeling corvallisbattery may have just gotten a DHP that was not up to standards.

Vibration, extreme heat, and extreme cold kills batteries. How much of each was the sample battery subjected to before the test was performed.

One more thing, I read somewhere that Die Hard Platinums are now manufactured by Deka. Not sure if that's true and don't remember where I read it, just throwing that out there.
I have heard that too, that they didn't renew their contract with Odyssey and went to another manufacturer. I haven't seen a credible source just yet, so Im not gonna jump on the bandwagon....yet.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:31 AM   #18
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I plan on doing this in the very near future.

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Old 09-26-2013, 09:22 AM   #19
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I ordered the Diehard. I was pretty sure, but Dave convinced me. If there is a problem, Sears is pretty no-hassle when it comes to their warranty.
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:18 PM   #20
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yea you are right deka private labels for sears. I sell deka n buy direct from them n they private label for a lot vendors. They sell a AGM battery that is same size battery as oem but its a dry battery part# 9A48 it can take up to 20% more vibrations n its a way better battery overall. Fits perfect for 12-13Jk
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:30 PM   #21
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HOOCBB

yea you are right deka private labels for sears. I sell deka n buy direct from them n they private label for a lot vendors. They sell a AGM battery that is same size battery as oem but its a dry battery part# 9A48 it can take up to 20% more vibrations n its a way better battery overall. Fits perfect for 12-13Jk
Is there any reason to believe one of the private label batteries would not be as good as a comparable Deka labeled battery? For example, Deka AGM for a 3.8L Wrangler to an O'reilly Auto Super Start Platinum for same application?
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:36 PM   #22
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I actually just swore off odyssey last weak after having to return a battery within the 3 year warranty and having my warranty "denied". They tried to give me the "user error" argument because I had jumped it after it died... yada yada yada. The battery was dead and even my optima charger wouldn't bring it back. The only reason I had to jump it was because I had no choice it was already a "bad battery" by that point. Anyway, I ate a $350 battery and told batteries plus to tell odyssey to suck it from now on...
Thats really odd.
Did you take it back to the shop you bought it from or an authorized Odyssey dealer???

I accidentally dropped my 1 year old Odyssey 2,000cc battery and split the case open at the corner. I took it back to the dealer I bought it from and they replaced it on the spot
.
I even told them I dropped it by mistake and cracked the body. They just scanned the bar code on the top of it to confirm my purchase there and gave me a new one.

gal at the counter simply said Odyssey has the best warranty in the industry and no explanation was needed for replacement.
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:48 PM   #23
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AGM better won't corrode on post and reg battery will even deka if its not a dry battery, we sell about 200 deka battery a month n hardly get any returns. The problem we where having before selling continental battery for 20+ years where I work at was they buy battery's from whoever is cheaper n stick a label n they come from Mexico, china, you name it n Quality Control was horrible we would get 20-30 battery a month that where defective. Any deka battery is a damn good battery and it's made In USA
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:07 PM   #24
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HOOCBB
AGM better won't corrode on post and reg battery will even deka if its not a dry battery, we sell about 200 deka battery a month n hardly get any returns. The problem we where having before selling continental battery for 20+ years where I work at was they buy battery's from whoever is cheaper n stick a label n they come from Mexico, china, you name it n Quality Control was horrible we would get 20-30 battery a month that where defective. Any deka battery is a damn good battery and it's made In USA
That is what I have found with my Odyssey batttery. My terminals used to corrode allot in F150. I would have to clean them every 6 months. Now with my Odyssey nothing, that is why I assumed it did not off gas.

So Deka not Odyssey makes the Sears Diehard Platinums now. Good to know.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:18 PM   #25
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Yea DEKA makes diehard battery for sears, great battery. Just thought I shared what I know from deka
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Old 09-27-2013, 06:17 PM   #26
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HOOCBB AGM better won't corrode on post and reg battery will even deka if its not a dry battery, we sell about 200 deka battery a month n hardly get any returns. The problem we where having before selling continental battery for 20+ years where I work at was they buy battery's from whoever is cheaper n stick a label n they come from Mexico, china, you name it n Quality Control was horrible we would get 20-30 battery a month that where defective. Any deka battery is a damn good battery and it's made In USA
I guess I misworded my question, but I thank you for that response anyway.

My question is, since Deka makes it's own line and private labels the Diehard Platinum and Super Start Platinum (from O'reilly, also AGM), is there any reason to believe the private label Diehard or Super Start will be of any less quality than the Deka AGM?
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Old 09-27-2013, 06:43 PM   #27
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Of course not. Same exact battery just another label on it👍👍
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:42 PM   #28
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You wouldnt want to know how many relabels there are out there.

As per my test.. it is a fixed amp draw test to a %65 depth of discharge. This is how you get your amp hour and reserve capacity values. Temp regulated control boxes for each battery with a temp probe on each cell. Then a fixed voltage, variable amperage recharge to see how much internal resistance each unit has at any given discharge state. Its safe to say one cycle represents a month of normal use. I bought another platinum and am continuing the test. Believe it or not.. the optima is hitting %10 above specs still and has the lowest internal resistance at a discharges state (10.1V no load after 1 hour sit time). My dad is an electrical engineer out of HP after 37 years. So needless to say, we have some cool ass tools. We are a true family owned and operated shop... batteries, golf carts and renewable energy isn't our jobs.. its our passion. We do online sales as well of super high quality custom cables and dry cell batteries. I've been meaning to get set up here as a vendor.
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:09 AM   #29
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What about this for a Jeep ? Would it work ? Are they any good ?

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