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Old 06-14-2013, 08:25 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Rainynite View Post
Brand of gas / driving style?
Uhm guys? maybe you haven't noticed but you are driving a Jeep. Not a cadillac STS. You fill it, it goes. I guess it's the new age yuppie "Hey these JKs are neat!" thing.

Driving style?
You get in and go. Most of you are mall crawlers or you wouldn't be discussing gas anyway. There is no "Style". Techniques for offroading...YES. "Style"? No..unless you are discussing hats, is this dress to short, the wind musses my hair.

Get a life, go enjoy your ride. Jeeping is not an anal retentive experience. It's more like...this. 70 miles from my house. And I kept this vid simple so even non mods can understand what they can do. He isn't worried about gas, or style. He IS Style.
Thanks for that, however it's my Jeep and I asked the question about my Jeep. If "most of [us] are mall crawlers" then you're putting us in the majority - in which case, it would be a more valid question than you're implying. I'm quite sure we know how to enjoy our Jeeps, and you are free to to enjoy yours in any way you choose. If my question insults your delicate sensibilities, feel free not to chime in. Last I checked, all are welcome here on the forum and all posts are acceptable unless deemed offensive by admin. If you find my question offensive, please bring it up with admin and they can shut down this thread.

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Old 06-15-2013, 01:17 AM   #32
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Thanks for that, however it's my Jeep and I asked the question about my Jeep. If "most of [us] are mall crawlers" then you're putting us in the majority - in which case, it would be a more valid question than you're implying. I'm quite sure we know how to enjoy our Jeeps, and you are free to to enjoy yours in any way you choose. If my question insults your delicate sensibilities, feel free not to chime in. Last I checked, all are welcome here on the forum and all posts are acceptable unless deemed offensive by admin. If you find my question offensive, please bring it up with admin and they can shut down this thread.
No offense taken. What it comes down to is the manual states what gas to put in it. The vvt isn't a high performance engine. I have two of them. This might shock you for the miles but I do a LOT of driving. My other is an 11' 200 hard top convertible..pic included to prove it. On it, that engine I've but 89,000 running from Utah to SE Tex and up toward Oregon and LA. I change the oil every 5-6K. For you oil nuts..and I guess this is the part that irks me is the constant synth vs natural oil arguement. I use QS. It is still in immaculate shape with no foibles except a sticky rear window.

The argument of gas mileage in a Wrangler is a moot point. Gas has no effect on mileage. You are in fact driving a vehicle with the aerodynamics of a brick tied to a drag chute. Only mitigating factors on MPG are tire size, gearing, and whether or not your dog hangs his head out the window. Tongue flap creates a great deal of drag. Doggles may help stream him a bit but the tongue will get you everytime. Sure, put in your premium UL but it won't matter. Burn the heads up faster maybe being an aluminum block but that's it.

Also, nothing wrong with mall crawlers. At least you are driving a jeep. And someone needs to keep those curbs under control.

Now, that aside given you are driving a 13' gas is the least of your considerations problematically. You Will get death wobble.. Great thread on checking it. If you have hard, soft, or dual tops and haven't taken them off. Try it, you'll like it. We'll help you if you can't figure it out. Doors also. Personally I broke the little red stay tabs off of all 4 doors cause they are a bitch to pinch off.

And most importantly...when you do go offroad..I mean really offroad. Take a buddy, and other jeeps & jeepers to advise. Camping gear is a plus. You'd be amazed at what your new toy can do. Beats the hell out of my Disco II. In short, ask the important questions.. Not "What gas is best for mpg or engine performance, or oil type" Remember, it's a rolling brick. Treat it as such.

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Old 06-15-2013, 03:21 AM   #33
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Foolish?

Obviously you didn't read my results. I could give a sh*t where gas comes from. My cousin travels the world for Chevron and explained the supply the chain strategies to me many years ago. I don't need a speech about oil refineries and additives - in that respect you and many others here are correct.

But to say using anything other than what's specified in the owners manual is ignorant.

If you listen to many 3.6L owners, they are telling you this motor is detonating and runs better on 91 octane - despite what the "owners manual" says. If you want to discuss the effects of compression ratios, ignition timing, heat and detonation to support your statement, I'm willing to hear to what you have to say. But to simply recite what's written in Chrysler's owner's manual is completely ridiculous.

How up-to-date are owner manuals? LOL .. you're talking to someone that's in charge of technical documentation and distribution for a global medical device company. Your ER hospital stay could mean life or death dependent how accurate the lab results are in the basement of a hospital.

So when a doctor opens you up based on what the owners manual says and a lab test result in the end was a false positive - come back and explain the accuracy of that information.

There's the owner's manual and then there's real world experience - reminds me of the book worms or engineers in life that claim they are experts. In the meantime everything is falling apart around them.

The Chrysler boys (engineers) haven't figured out why their precious 3.6L Pentastar motor is falling apart in the field under certain conditions - or at least they're not telling us why its falling apart.

I had a 562ci Hemi that was designed to run on 91 octane - 10.5:1 compression, aluminum heads, Ross pistions, Eagle rods, MSD ignition - in the real world it ran better when I fed it 100 octane fuel.

Explain that please.



.
Yes, foolish. Believe whatever you want to believe, but facts are facts. I never claimed to be an expert, just presenting facts based on unique knowledge that are found useful by those intelligent enough to realize there are things they don't know. If it makes you feel better to believe that Chrysler's engineers got it wrong and someone "that's in charge of technical documentation and distribution for a global medical device company" got it right then yes, you are foolish.
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:25 AM   #34
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If it makes you feel better to believe that Chrysler's engineers got it wrong ...
Yes, Chrysler engineers got it wrong...

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/upd...ad-137608.html

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/dia...les-78034.html

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/why...at-181506.html

.
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:00 PM   #35
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Higher octane just retards detonation. These motors are not high performance, high compression. If it doesn't ping like we called it in the old days or detonate, you can run the lowest grade.

I mostly put in gas from Safeway, 10% ethanol. Safeway uses gas from a variety of the top distributors. I drive like a grandpa, about 75% highway/freeway, getting a touch over 20mpg.

My mustang with the advanced timing needed 91 minimum to run ok. Brand made no difference, just needed the higher octane to retard early detonation.

I hear a lot about better mileage with higher octane, I'm not going to dispute that, I'm just curious what would cause it.

I used to put the highest grade I could find in my cars and trucks until I had my first mustang and the mechanic told me put what ever you want in there, but higher grade don't make you faster son.
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:15 PM   #36
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If higher octane doesn't make you faster the every drag car should just run diesel instead of alcohol
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:16 PM   #37
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Higher octane just retards detonation. These motors are not high performance, high compression. If it doesn't ping like we called it in the old days or detonate, you can run the lowest grade.

I mostly put in gas from Safeway, 10% ethanol. Safeway uses gas from a variety of the top distributors. I drive like a grandpa, about 75% highway/freeway, getting a touch over 20mpg.

My mustang with the advanced timing needed 91 minimum to run ok. Brand made no difference, just needed the higher octane to retard early detonation.

I hear a lot about better mileage with higher octane, I'm not going to dispute that, I'm just curious what would cause it.

I used to put the highest grade I could find in my cars and trucks until I had my first mustang and the mechanic told me put what ever you want in there, but higher grade don't make you faster son.
Agreed.

I'm curious too. What I do know is my average MPG's dropped below 14 with only ~500 miles. I'm going to run out this tank of gas and fill it with 87 and see what happens.

Chrysler claims 16 MPG city on the window sticker.

I wonder if that's for a Wrangler JKU with street tires, freedom top, no factory lift and no heavy 10A bumpers, etc, etc.

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Old 06-15-2013, 12:33 PM   #38
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If higher octane doesn't make you faster the every drag car should just run diesel instead of alcohol
The higher compression ratio, the higher octane required. There's also other factors involved like cylinder head design. A hemispherical head design (shape) burns more efficiently than a wedge design.

Comparing the two with exact compression ratios, a true Hemi head will burn more efficiently and make more horsepower than a wedge head motor using the same fuel.

The trade off is more weight, expense and valve train complexity.

The modern Hemi's are more wedge than hemispherical designed combustion chambers.. they just call it a Hemi.

Chrysler, again playing with people's heads - pun intended.



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Old 06-15-2013, 12:50 PM   #39
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If higher octane doesn't make you faster the every drag car should just run diesel instead of alcohol
Well, I get your point, but you should have said 87 octane. Anyways, higher octane rating will produce more horsepower to a point based on the engine capabilities and control system. If the computer can adjust timing properly for a higher octane fuel you'll see HP gains.

I can only get 91 in CA, I see about -7 HP from the 414 rating on 93 octane. 100 octane at the track puts me at around 425 hp. Would race fuel add more, probably not, it's only good to a point within the limits of the engine/ECU to utilize it.
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:59 PM   #40
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FWIW last summer my JK would ping under light to normal acceleration unless I ran midgrade every other tankful.

During the cooler weather of the fall/winter I could run 87 and no ping. Now that the weather has warmed up again, the ping is back again unless I alternate with mid grade.
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:28 PM   #41
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FWIW last summer my JK would ping under light to normal acceleration unless I ran midgrade every other tankful.

During the cooler weather of the fall/winter I could run 87 and no ping. Now that the weather has warmed up again, the ping is back again unless I alternate with mid grade.
Interesting...

I find it strange the owners manual says that light spark knock at low speeds is not harmful.

My question to Chrysler engineering ... why is there any spark knock on a modern lower compression engine.

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Old 06-15-2013, 01:49 PM   #42
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Interesting...

I find it strange the owners manual says that light spark knock at low speeds is not harmful.

My question to Chrysler engineering ... why is there any spark knock on a modern lower compression engine.

.

I bet you can't wait to get that 4.0L HO purring again. Beautifully smooth engine compared to Chrysler's nonsense.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:23 PM   #43
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If higher octane doesn't make you faster the every drag car should just run diesel instead of alcohol
I used to think the same thing, in the case of gas of these grades, they still have the same energy per volume, the octane simply lets it detonate at higher pressure and heat.

That has advantages for making more horsepower. If tuned for it, and designed for it.

Like everyone says, buy what makes you happy.

I don't think these engine's ecu can really adjust enough to take advantage of the octane increase. If they do, it would be on the order of a couple percent I'm guessing.

Also I'm not even sure if it would be an across the board HP hike, it may very well be late in the power band, which for Jeeps, is not all that fantastic.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:53 PM   #44
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I bet you can't wait to get that 4.0L HO purring again. Beautifully smooth engine compared to Chrysler's nonsense.
It already purrs .. original owner with 181K miles. The head and valve train has never been touched and I've been feeding this motor 91 octane gas since new and have changed every spark plug since 1991... comparing cylinders and inspecting each spark plug burn pattern from one maintenace interval to the next.

This is a clean burning and efficient motor despite what others may believe. I have emission inspection and test results with California mandated thresholds dating back to 1997 ...

My current emission results are that of a Honda Civic..

I just spent $3K and had my dealer re-seal the motor... new rear main, valve cover gasket, oil pan and gasket, timing chain, cover and gasket.. it gets regular 3K mile maintenance with Mobil 1 High Mileage 0w40 and Mopar filter. Excellent oil pressure and no leaks now brother.

My XJ is almost done... rear Deaver springs, exterior restoration and it will be like new again. I found all OEM interior materials at SMS in Oregon and installed to period correct specs.

You wouldn't believe the number of offers I get on my Cherokee, but will never be for sale...

I know .. its a Jeep thing.




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Old 06-16-2013, 12:37 AM   #45
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If your argument had validity, you wouldn't have to cut off my quote. I said you are foolish if you think Chrysler's engineers got it wrong AND you (global medical...blah, blah...who cares) got it right. You just continue to prove my point. Or maybe you are trying to take credit for solving death wobble, leaks and engine ticking. Either way, a well adjusted person would be embarrassed and stop.
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:33 PM   #46
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If your argument had validity, you wouldn't have to cut off my quote. I said you are foolish if you think Chrysler's engineers got it wrong AND you (global medical...blah, blah...who cares) got it right. You just continue to prove my point. Or maybe you are trying to take credit for solving death wobble, leaks and engine ticking. Either way, a well adjusted person would be embarrassed and stop.
Chrysler has made some pretty terrible vehicles...
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Old 06-16-2013, 04:34 PM   #47
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Interesting...

I find it strange the owners manual says that light spark knock at low speeds is not harmful.

My question to Chrysler engineering ... why is there any spark knock on a modern lower compression engine.

.
The term "light" is subjective. What it means to the engineers may not be the same as our definition. LOL

It also surprises me that the ECU isn't retarding timing when spark knock is detected.
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Old 06-16-2013, 04:39 PM   #48
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The term "light" is subjective. What it means to the engineers may not be the same as our definition. LOL

It also surprises me that the ECU isn't retarding timing when spark knock is detected.
Surprises me as well. Unless the knock isnt severe enough for the knock sensor to pick up :/
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Old 06-16-2013, 04:45 PM   #49
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Surprises me as well. Unless the knock isnt severe enough for the knock sensor to pick up :/
I can hear it even with the windows down. I would think its severe enough for the sensor to pick up, but who knows? LOL
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Old 06-16-2013, 04:48 PM   #50
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I can hear it even with the windows down. I would think its severe enough for the sensor to pick up, but who knows? LOL
Silversport i see you reside in ny. I do as well and id honestly like to hear it. I have way to much experience with detonation as i have a turbod drag bike lmao. Forced induction motors love to detonate lol Im not questioning your experience or anything i would just really like to know if our rigs are really subject to that level of detonation.
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Old 06-16-2013, 05:28 PM   #51
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I've been doing some reading and I think I stumbled onto something of significance. The 3.6L motor is not a low compression engine. The specs indicate it has 10.2:1 compression.

My 562ci Hemi was 10.5:1 and was built to run on 91 octane - but never did or would so I had to blend 91/100 octane to achieve 94 octane gas. A Union 76 Chemist gave me the ratio to mix to achieve that octane rating. It would run good on 94 but still would dentonate "slightly" in hot weather.

When I ran straight 100 race gas it really woke up - obviously I could retard the timing but I didn't want to defeat the purpose of building a 10 second street car just to detune it to run on 91. I'm glad I had a Union 76 station nearby that carried 100 octane fuel so it wasn't a big issue - other than it was $6.00 per gallon.

Back onto the 3.6... I've noticed in the fine print that Chrysler spec'd 87 octane to achieve California emission standards. So my guess is this motor has potential to run more efficiently on higher octane but they've most likely restricted the ECU / ignition timing and VVT to operate within the emission range based on 87 octane fuel for the state of California.

You can thank the tree huggers that live up north.. especially 12thman.

WTH does that user name mean anyway ... you got twelve toes because you came out of the womb unbalanced?

LOL

N00g7... excluding you brother.

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Old 06-16-2013, 08:26 PM   #52
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If it runs fine on 87 (mine does), why on earth would I use anything else? Chrysler says 87, it runs fine on 87, so it gets 87.

Perhaps spending more than is necessary on gasoline is the cool thing to do down south. Seriously, though, if mine was knocking I might try higher octane. More likely I would take it to the dealer and say "fix this".
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Old 06-16-2013, 10:01 PM   #53
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If it runs fine on 87 (mine does), why on earth would I use anything else? Chrysler says 87, it runs fine on 87, so it gets 87.

Perhaps spending more than is necessary on gasoline is the cool thing to do down south. Seriously, though, if mine was knocking I might try higher octane. More likely I would take it to the dealer and say "fix this".
Mine does run fine on 87 octane when the weather is cooler. And I have no check engine light, no stored codes, I even use Techron every 1K miles to help ensure the combustion chamber is clean. Telling a dealer to "fix this" is easier said than done.
BTW: with 89 octane I get zero knock. Zero.
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:27 PM   #54
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I'll through in my insight here. I have always ran Mobil gas in my jeep since the day I bought it. Mainly because I manage our family owned Mobil gas stations and its a high brand gas. I use to run 93 on every fill up because I use to believe that it was better for any engine to run that and I wanted to give my engine the "best" but I began to research the topic of running premium in vehicles that didn't ask for and it turned out that it can cause some problems down the road due to the combustion rate being off (or something like that). So I began running 87 and I really don't notice much difference. It sounded a little better and was a little more "up and ready to go" with 93 but ID rather run what the engine wants rather than what I think sounds good.
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:40 PM   #55
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im getting high 19's low 20's on my 2012 6spd 3.21 gears and 285/70/17's
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:06 AM   #56
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You can thank the tree huggers that live up north.. especially 12thman.

WTH does that user name mean anyway ... you got twelve toes because you came out of the womb unbalanced?
.
Is this your MO? You attack people you don't know and make up things when you have nothing else?

My first post in this thread stated I work in an oil refinery. I most definitely an not a tree hugger nor do I live up north, so thanks are not needed.

There are a lot of user names on here that don't make sense unless you know where/how they originated, yours included. Most of us don't make asinine guesses or assumptions about them, we simply ask if interested. 12thman refers to fans of the Seattle Seahawks-"The 12th Man" on the field.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:09 AM   #57
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Chrysler has made some pretty terrible vehicles...
I absolutely agree. In no way have I ever defended Chrysler's poor quality control.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:16 AM   #58
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I absolutely agree. In no way have I ever defended Chrysler's poor quality control.

Is it unreasonable to suggest that they spec a lower octane fuel because people would be pissed putting premium in their truck?

WTH is the purpose of midgrade anyways?
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:19 AM   #59
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Oh, and that Golden Tate "catch" is still bullsh*t.
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:04 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12thman View Post
Is this your MO? You attack people you don't know and make up things when you have nothing else?

My first post in this thread stated I work in an oil refinery. I most definitely an not a tree hugger nor do I live up north, so thanks are not needed.

There are a lot of user names on here that don't make sense unless you know where/how they originated, yours included. Most of us don't make asinine guesses or assumptions about them, we simply ask if interested. 12thman refers to fans of the Seattle Seahawks-"The 12th Man" on the field.
Dude... go stand in the mirror. You must have another personality hiding behind there.

.

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:: 2002 Chevrolet G3500 LWB 8.1L - motovan
:: 1991 Cherokee Laredo 4.0L HO - resto in-process
:: 2010 Cherokee SRT8 6.1L Hemi - sold
:: 1965 Plymouth Sedan 562ci Hemi - sold
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