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Buyer Beware: Supercharger

63K views 184 replies 71 participants last post by  Oz fry 
#1 ·
I just wanted to post a consumer report type warning to any 2012 to current JK owners considering the purchase of a Magnuson Supercharger. This primarily pertains to automatic transmission models and cannot verify manual issues. I am not here to bash the manufacturer or promote another alternative. I just wanted to share my personal experience with this system and pass along the information to the Jeep community.

Some quick facts: Installed on a 2012 JKU sport w/auto. 4.88 gears, 37" tires and 14K miles.

I purchased one of this unit a couple months ago and am completely disappointed with the overall drivability. This system has 2 primary issues. The first one is the inherent "surging". This surging feels like a misfire or hesitation. At wide open throttle this is not an issue but regular commuting at various RPM ranges and gears it is very noticeable. There was one update that I received that addressed this and it did improve but still very much there. I suspect in time this may be something that eventually will get dialed in. They will not automatically send you updates. You will have to check in periodically and ask.

The second and most notable issue / complaint about the Magnacharger is the automatic transmission shifting points or lack thereof. Here is the problem. Under normal driving conditions the transmission will hold the current gear and does not want to upshift at any type of normal range. here is an example. If you were to take off from a dead stop and apply approximately 20 to 40% throttle and hold it there, hear is what you can expect. 1st to 2nd gear is usually (I emphasize usually) pretty normal. 2nd to 3rd will shift around 3000 to 3400 RPM's. 3rd to 4th would be somewhere around 3800 to 4500 RPM's and you can all but forget about 5th. From 4th to 5th it is hold around 5000 RPM's and in many cases not shift at all until you completely take your foot off of the throttle. This shifting combined with the surging makes for a pretty un-pleasurable experience to say the least. I hate driving in fact.

The biggest disappointment is the lack of a fix. I contacted Magnuson to express my problems only to find out they were well aware of it. I was confused as to why this system would have been released knowing of this? The response was "there is no way we could have tested every Jeep configuration". This is true (and not expected) but they went on to say it only seems to affect "lifted Jeeps with larger tires and / or gear changes" (that's probably only 95% of Jeep owners that would be willing to invest in a supercharger but lets give him the benefit of the doubt) He went on to say "we have also seen this in Jeeps that have not had tire and / or gear changes and is not a Magnuson specific issue". Well okay then this must be a Chrysler issue, I am sorry for bothering you with my nonsense. Oh wait.....here are a few FACTS taken directly from my e-mail to them

1. Purchased Jeep at 7K miles bone stock with no transmission or any other issues.

2. Installed lift, tires, gears, recalibrated etc. at 10K miles and zero issues with transmission or anything else on or off-road.

3. Installed Magnuson Supercharger at 14K miles and now have both issues mentioned above.

Magnuson then went on to point the finger at Diablo because they have not decoded the transmission parameters. Wait....You guys chose this tuner for your system knowing they have not decoded the tranny. How is that a Diablo problem? Anyway the fact is, it is my problem now.

Conclusion: There is no current fix or any type of timeframe projected. This is from both Magnuson and Diablo. Is there something else I would have spent 6k plus on? If you own an automatic 3.6L Wrangler I would proceed with extreme caution. In truth there is no F...ing way I would by this system.
 
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#2 ·
I understand you've spent money and been burned. That really :mooning: stinks! But can you at least reset your computer to stock so you enjoy driving your jeep again? If you can't, that would REALLY :censored: stink!

Hopefully updates will come sooner than you anticipate. Good luck!
 
#3 ·
Do you have an auto locker in the rear?
 
#4 ·
Sounds like you can ether pay for a local tuner who can work with jeeps or figure out the problem yourself. IMO I wouldn't even FI a engine without getting a solid tune from myself with the right equipment or from a pro shop. I'd assume the hardware with the supercharger is fine it just needs to be tuned right.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention. People can make their own decisions about whether to purchase from a particular aftermarket entity, but I would have a very hard time buying a Magnuson or Diablo product after reading this. If someone from either of those two companies is reading this, they should know that there are probably many, many other people reading this that feel the same way and won't bother to post anything.
 
#6 ·
I was on the cutting edge of 03 cobra tuning way back then and ran into nothing but problem after problem. It was probably 4 years and melted pistons to get everything ironed out and running flawlessly. What you are running into is pretty common. It takes months and sometimes years for the tuners to learn all the ins and outs of the various PCM's and until they do you are at their mercy.

As mentioned, I would try and find a local tuner very familiar with JK's who has a dyno.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the feedback. I may look into a local shop for options. The main problem seems to be the trasmission mapping not the engine tune. The two are not talking to each other at the moment. According to Magnuson and Diablo decoding the transmission is a long and tedious process. That I can understand. I am frustrated because I was unaware of this at the time of purchase / install. Now it's already done and it leaves me with very few options not to mention the expense and time frame. I live in Michigan where our Jeepin season is somewhat short. We leave our Jeep at our summer place for 5 months just outside of the dunes where we primarily wheel.

To answer a couple questions.
1. No auto locker in rear. Curious as to why?
2. You cannot reset the the computer back to stock because it will not run with the supercharger installed.
 
#10 ·
Im sure this is addressed with the Diablo tuner but just noticed this. "For Jeeps with larger tires than stock or non-stock gearing, you will need an AEV Procal to adjust the tune " https://www.magnacharger.com/p-126-jeep-wrangler-36l-jk-2012-2014-magnuson-supercharger.aspx
Magnusen told me originally that I could not use the Diablo tuner to make tire / gear changes even though the tuner allows for this. My calibration was already done prior to the install and part of the original file I sent to Magnuson so they could then send me their mapping for the charger. They did mention the ProCal on the front end but after seeing my file said it was good and not necessary.
 
#12 ·
The surging is still there in manual mode but it does make the shifting better to a degree. The problem with the "manual mode" on these Jeeps is it's only a partial manual. The computer still overrides your input based on throttle position. For example if you are a little heavier in the pedal and up shift at 3500 rpm's it will still hold the gear until the computer decides to up shift. This is something I noticed right after I bought the Jeep and prior to any mods. I felt because of the computer doing what it wants to do anyway it renders the manual mode pretty worthless in my opinion. If I had known this I probably would have done with a manual from the beginning as I wouldn't be experiencing half the problems I am having.
 
#13 ·
Sorry to hear, of all the superchargers out there for the JK I'd want the Magnuson.

I've read similar gripes with other setups, so you're not alone. The ECM on these Jeeps must really be a bitch to re-program properly.....
 
#14 ·
nail in the coffin for me planning any FI on my JK for at least another year to see if any of these manufacturers can get the tuning right. While Diablo is what most of them use it sounds like Diablo is the source of some or a lot of the issue and unfortunately as has been said it may not even be there fault but that the system is so guarded by Chrysler.
 
#15 ·
I don't understand why you would even rely on someone who is providing the hardware to also have a generic tune that would work for every JK. You should have the mindset when buying a FI kit that you would need it tuned in a shop (not from sending and downloading new tunes on the web) to get it working perfect. I'm sure if you went to their shop it would be a lot different but doing a tune over the web just sounds a bit risky for a new jeep.
 
#21 · (Edited)
College bud of mine is a BSME with years in the automotive instrumentation field. He worked with all of the big three and knows a thing or three about mucking about with those little black boxen under the hood. If I decided to play around with performance tuning the engine I figure I could do worse than foot a round-trip-ticket, decent lodgings and board for the time, expense and trouble he could save me. He's done some amazing work on a WS6 Pontiac Trans Am (which is miles from stock, now.)

Don't skimp on your tuner. The days of slapping a Holly 4-barrel and Isky cam under the hood are long gone.

Spec it. Then build it.
 
#166 ·
College bud of mine is a BSME with years in the automotive instrumentation field. He worked with all of the big three and knows a thing or three about mucking about with those little black boxen under the hood. If I decided to play around with performance tuning the engine I figure I could do worse than foot a round-trip-ticket, decent lodgings and board for the time, expense and trouble he could save me. He's done some amazing work on a WS6 Pontiac Trans Am (which is miles from stock, now.)

Don't skimp on your tuner. The days of slapping a Holly 4-barrel and Isky cam under the hood are long gone.

Spec it. Then build it.
Ahhhh, finally something on this thread I actually understand.
 
#25 ·
I had a Magnuson on my 05 GTO and your frustrations bring back bad memories. The Maggie was not the problem, but I'd never have another Diablosport tuner even if you gave it to me. My car finally ran decent after headaches and multiple canned tunes. Once I got a custom dyno tune it was flawless and I was completely satisfied. I don't know who can do a custom dyno tune for you, but I'd highly recommend it if you can find a tuner. I would buy another Magnuson SC in a heartbeat, but only if I knew a tuner who could tune it properly.
 
#26 ·
I had a Magnuson on my 05 GTO and your frustrations bring back bad memories. The Maggie was not the problem, but I'd never have another Diablosport tuner even if you gave it to me. My car finally ran decent after headaches and multiple canned tunes. Once I got a custom dyno tune it was flawless and I was completely satisfied. I don't know who can do a custom dyno tune for you, but I'd highly recommend it if you can find a tuner. I would buy another Magnuson SC in a heartbeat, but only if I knew a tuner whoi could tune it properly.
I find it odd that you blame Diablosport when magnuson wrote the tune? Diablo tuner is simply a tool yes it comes with tunes for stock motors but a supercharged tune would be written by the manufacturer of the supercharger.
 
#27 ·
Tuning issues aside, forced induction is generally not a good 'bolt-on' addition for stock open-deck engines not specifically designed for that type of application (ie-Pentastar). Serious mechanical problems can & usually do develop.

An Internet search of 'open-deck engine+forced induction' will yield a trove of information supporting this statement.
 
#28 ·
An Internet search of 'open-deck engine+forced induction' will yield a trove of information supporting this statement.
I searched as you suggested and found various references to the generalizations:

- Open deck is easier to manufacture, lighter, allows for more even cooling of the cylinder, but is not as strong as closed deck.

- Closed deck is stronger, but is heavier, harder to manufacture, and because of less even cooling at the top of the cylinders, the cylinders can warp under high heat more easily than open deck.



"stronger" and "weaker" are relative generalizations, but does not mean that an open deck cannot be strong enough for mild boost levels.



I found specific examples, thanks to your suggested search term:

- A post from 2003 mentions that the "new" Subaru WRX STi (14+ psi boost stock) has an open deck design.

- A book about building performance Nissans (1991-2006) describes one of the Nissan engines as being open deck, and says that it can't withstand boost over 14psi, or extending the rev limit much higher than stock.



And those are examples of 10+ year old engines. The pentastar, A new engine design that was designed with future turbocharging in mind using the same basic design, is probably equally capable of handling boost pressures in the 14psi or less range.

In fact, according to pentastars.com, "A turbocharger could be added without changing the deck machining"


So thanks for pointing me to info that helps show that the Pentastar is most likely just fine with the low levels of boost produced by these supercharger and turbo kits on the market :)
 
#29 ·
Until now I hadn't ever heard the term open or closed deck blocks. I read up on it and found it interesting. I am by no means a guru when it comes to engines or design. Prior to installing a FI kit I spoke with several friends (who are mechanics and own shops) about the application and the Pentastar engine. All said that they were not the least bit concerned with such a low psi boost. One even suggested a NOS dry kit (50 to 75HP) for low RPM range until the charger gets me to the sweet spot. And of course for the hell of it too. I primarilywheel in the dunes and I cannot think of a worse environment for robbing horsepower. I was looking for a way to gain a signifant increase in torque without doing a Hemi swap. An FI in my opinion is the only way to do it. All the other bolts ons, exhaust, tuners, etc just can't produce the increase that makes any noticable difference in the environment I'm running in. I've tried all that with my previous Jeep and just cut to the chase on this build.

I really appreciate the info and found it interesting. At this point I will keep hunting for a tuning option for my current issues unless Magnuson beats me to it (I hope they do).
 
#35 ·
Many engine components are different on EcoBoost V6 turbo than EcoBoost V6 non-turbo, what's your point in the comparison?

I don't think anyone here stated that you could NOT apply forced induction to open-decked engine designs at all, as long as they were incorporated into the design parameters all should be fine.
Forced Induction design allowances are not presently incorporated into the Pentastar 3.6L, nor does it appear there are any plans to do so (3.0L maybe).

Therefore this makes forced induction application to Pentastar 3.6L engine a 'proceed at your own risk' endeavor..
Just trying to illuminate the risks, thats all...
 
#34 ·
Ok, lets try another approach;

Automotive engines intended for average consumers are designed around three basic concepts - Longevity-Performance-Economy

Understanding this we can now apply the 'Project management triangle' (or 'Pyramid of Reality') most people recognize as - Good-Fast-Cheap

So as the old saying goes - we can do things three ways, pick any two..

1) Cheap & Good/Economy & Longevity - Performance suffers with these choices (Stock engines fall here)

2) Good & Fast/Longevity & Performance - Expensive & economy suffers (increased displacement would fall here)

3) Fast & Cheap/Performance & Economy - Reliability or longevity suffers (aftermarket add-ons fall here)

All in all, it's actually pretty simple.. shortcuts cost..

That said, it still amazes me that folks are willing to take an engine costing millions to engineer, that produces more horsepower/torque than most '60-70's 8cyl muscle cars, & try to improve upon it in basically a backyard garage using bolt on parts/systems peddled by people who neither design nor actually manufacture them, & then are astonished when things do not go properly.

Reminds me of the guy that pokes a mean dog with a short stick, then seems surprised when he gets bitten..

Without due diligence beforehand, it's easy to become an R&D project (at your own expense) by blindly taking advise from those with no 'skin in the game' - such as 'mechanic' friends or eager parts peddlers.

Do your research. As evidenced in the thread, some things are just not worth the pain...
 
#45 ·
That said, it still amazes me that folks are willing to take an engine costing millions to engineer, that produces more horsepower/torque than most '60-70's 8cyl muscle cars, & try to improve upon it in basically a backyard garage using bolt on parts/systems peddled by people who neither design nor actually manufacture them, & then are astonished when things do not go properly.
This advice is golden.

Too many vehicle owners are still stuck in the days of throwing headers, an Isky cam, and a Holley double pumper carb on an engine as a performance solution and believe that it still works on modern engines.
 
#36 ·
To me a supercharger really isn't worth it for all the hassle and money involved even if you do it yourself especially on a Jeep. When a company relies on another one to carry out the product that tells me they really have no clue on what the hell they are doing except trying to get people to buy a half ass product. Unless you are regearing or going a bigger engine everything else is just snake oil. Long story short I contacted one of the jug heads at Superchips about their 3875 tuner and while it sounded great on paper once I spoke with the tech guy there he informed me that I needed to buy the tune for the transmission which I thought was odd being the price you are paying. No problem right? Asked him about how the tables work for that tune and was told well its custom to where you want it so you have to play with it. Really? So I'm a Chrysler TCM program engineer now? Not only that but, you have to sign a waiver stating that for some reason you mess it up rather you meant to or not they are not liable for any damage at all. I laughed and hung up. I understand if a part was put on wrong but, we are talking about something that shouldn’t need much explaining to do and if done right should walk you thru all steps involved from cradle to grave. Isn't that why its 300 plus bucks? I'm not paying that dough to play with it I can tell you that right now. Programming is not something you play with on a daily driver. Race car? Sure because you're sole purpose is different.
 
#39 ·
The second and most notable issue / complaint about the Magnacharger is the automatic transmission shifting points or lack thereof. Here is the problem. Under normal driving conditions the transmission will hold the current gear and does not want to upshift at any type of normal range
RIPP just posted something recently about automatic transmission shifting issues: Pentastar + RIPP SuperCharger = SUPERSTAR? - Page 5

If RIPP has it worked out now, then Magnuson should have it worked out by now (or should be getting in touch with RIPP to find out how they solved it!)
 
#41 ·
I'm glad you started this thread Blown-JK. I can't believe a company is selling such crap, and not standing behind their product to this degree. This is ridiculous, they should pay to have it removed from your Jeep, pay to have it shipped back to them, and give you a full refund of your purchase price.

I had thought about supercharging, so I need threads like this to give me a reality check. It sounds like a good way to really screw up a perfectly good Jeep.
 
#42 ·
Anytime you're an early adopter of aftermarket equipment such as this you are crazy if you're not expecting have these type of problems very few these kits come out flawless there is always a little things they need to be addressed the only way to get addresses by selling kits and shaking out the bugs. I'm sure there was some warning up front this wasn't 100% and if not shame on them for not telling him and shame on him for not researching it.
 
#43 ·
This is the main reason Im not boosting my Jeep....Im Mr. Boost and will boost anything....the problem is the tuning. I have 10+ years of boosting vehicles experience, and in my opinion, there are NO good tuners available for the the JK, period. Diablo "cracked" the chrysler code, but I have read nothing but issues with tuners for the JK and will stay far away from them. Coming from the world of tuning Hondas, Subarus, Audis, etc, the companies tuning the JKs are IMHO piss poor.
 
#44 ·
the companies tuning the JKs are IMHO piss poor.
Maybe Chrysler could release a "developers kit". Worked for linux and the like. I see no way for it to decrease sales. Especially if it were "unsupported" just like after market suspensions. Sure would make for a one of a kind experience. Most people would say:

:awesome:

Sorry, but the emoticons on this site are amazing. I plan to make full use of them:drinks:
 
#49 ·
This thread has been informative (thank you) and entertaining as well.

To be clear on a couple posts:
Going into this install, I did not expect everything to be "flawless". However did I expect a level of functionality that is not there. I do not consider this to be unrealistic given the cost and experience that Magnuson brings to the table. I read many of the issues regarding the RIPP kit and choose to wait until some of there issues were worked out or for a different manufacturer. When Magnuson released theirs back in January I was excited because of there reputation, size of company, and experience with OEM applications. At the time of purchase (April 2014) there was not a lot of user information available (this is why I am posting). At that time I made an educated decision that I realized involved a certain level of risk.

The fact is, this kit is already installed and I am committed to seeing it through. I originally posted as a "buyer beware" because I just wanted to share my personal experience with this kit to inform anyone considering purchasing. I also was looking for any help to a solution, which some offered (thank you).

Whether or not the Pentastar can handle an FI kit is irrelavent at this point (it's already installed) Doing more research into potential issues is also irrelavent now. Magnuson never "warned" me or posted anything that I found ahead of time regarding these shifting problems. It appears RIPP did with there system. The "lift to shift" which I find completely hilarious and unacceptable from them and Magnuson. It's because of this known issue, I feel the kit should not have been offered for automatic transmission applications without a very clear written and or verbal warning by both manufacturer and dealer. Hence what I consider unacceptable. Maybe I'm wrong but I would be willing to bet if I told any other automatic transmission owner to spend $6,000 on any upgrade and now you have to "lift to shift" every time you drive you would find it as ridiculous as I do.

From my corespondence with Magnuson and Diablo both stated that they are working on it but decoding the transmission mapping is very labor intensive and time consuming. I have heard (but cannot verify) that Chrlysers programming is amoung the most difficult to crack and rewrite. This may explain some other posters issues that I read regarding the various tuners available for stock applications.

Thanks again for all the feedback relavent or not I learned something.
 
#60 ·
Useless Pickles sent me a link (thank you) that indicated RIPP may have gotten this figured out. Sounds like all there tuners now come from Diablo as well. I am going to email Magnusen today copying a portion of that link to see where they are with this.
 
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