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Old 02-20-2011, 12:24 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by SFBayArea View Post
Didn't really want to stir up the war here.
For now I decided to stick with 5W20. There was promo running in the local ORiles 4.99/Qt for full synthetic Penzoil.
I liked the good old days - just a few years ago - when I could get dino Penzoil at Checkers for .99 a quart (after rebate). Checkers is gone and now the best I get is $2 to $3 a quart.

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Old 02-23-2011, 11:57 PM   #32
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5w20 is because the close tolerance of the engine so, the oil will flow better. To be safe the engine is getting the best lubrication I use the 5w20. If it was just for the weather conditions then it would be ok to switch but I wouldn't.
Not true, 5W/20 is entirely for increased CAFE standards, the engines have not changed. Warranty is still in full effect no matter what grade is used as long as the API standard is up to date.

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Old 02-24-2011, 12:23 AM   #33
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run 10/30 in summer 5/30 in winter months. it lets the oil get to the top end easier.
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:36 AM   #34
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Not true, 5W/20 is entirely for increased CAFE standards, the engines have not changed. Warranty is still in full effect no matter what grade is used as long as the API standard is up to date.
I really don't believe there is an answer. The automotive industries change parts, oil, fluids faster than a woman changes her mind. I believe it is based on payoffs or incentives they receive from the products vendor. It just happened that year someone was getting a kickback on 5W20 oil.
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:07 AM   #35
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I use Napa synthetic 5w-20 cost only $3.70 a quart , it's the same as Valvoline. I pair that with a Napa Gold "wix " filter.
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Old 02-24-2011, 10:19 AM   #36
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Been running Mobile 1 5w30 since first oil change. Does not burn any between changes. I dont believe half the S%$& posted on here about oil. Get a good brand and stick with it.
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Old 02-24-2011, 12:04 PM   #37
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Well, it isn't posted on here but in the owners manual and yes the 3.8l did change. Not sure why people don't believe the truth. They changed the 3.8l which used 10w-30 to low tension rings so it would get better gas mileage but at a sacrifice. So 5x20 needed to be used because of this. Not sure why anyone wouldn't use what the manufacture recommends but it is your Jeep and you can do what you want. Sort of like people being informed about fatal angle and not caring.

I am not about to tell someone it is alright to do something that is against manufacture recommendation even if I think it is alright. Sort of makes me liable if something goes wrong. If I would disagree I would at least say, I use this even thought Chrysler says not to, I would recommend what the owner manual tells you to do.
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:09 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by 4 Jeep Family View Post
5w20 is because the close tolerance of the engine so, the oil will flow better. To be safe the engine is getting the best lubrication I use the 5w20. If it was just for the weather conditions then it would be ok to switch but I wouldn't.

I work in the Auto industry & this is a false statement. The engines tolerances are no different than any years of the 3.8 made before it.

The Manufacturers recommend the 5w20 for CAFE fuel standards. Thats it.

Can running an oil that thin cause it to wear out prematurely? You bet. Namely excessive oil consumption due to worn rings & possibly even spun main & rod bearings.

Read this:
Motor Oils - Fuel Economy vs. Wear

If you plan on keeping your Jeep for a long time Id think twice before using 5w20 all the time. Its fine in winter & low temps, but summer no way.
Especially if you tow or push your engine hard off road.

Run what you want, but so a search on these "JK wrangler forums" & you will see plenty of threads about excessive oil consumption due to worn rings even threads about spun engine bearings.

The 3.8 may not be a power house, but it is a tried & true motor used for many years in minivans. Its known in the past for its reliability. In the JK Wranglers its not.

Makes you wonder why doesn't it?
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:30 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
The engines tolerances are no different than any years of the 3.8 made before it. The Manufacturers recommend the 5w20 for CAFE fuel standards. Thats it.

. . . .

The 3.8 may not be a power house, but it is a tried & true motor used for many years in minivans. Its known in the past for its reliability. In the JK Wranglers its not. Makes you wonder why doesn't it?
I've stayed out of this one so far but, to be clear, you're disagreeing with Pat@FieldsJeep's statements in this thread, which were as follows:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat@FieldsJeep View Post
the 3.8 liter v6 has a design flaw and has been known for oil consumption for many years. since 05 for sure. go back to dealer, there is a TSB on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat@FieldsJeep View Post
The oil consumption issue is more of a problem now. the 3.8 has been around since 1989 and was a great engine. the original 3.8 was built to use 5w30 oil. chrysler went to a low tension rings to increase fuel economy and and oil went to 5w20. Lower tension rings means they can get stuck easier. If you have carbon build up due to lack of maintenance you get oil consumption issues. Best thing is definitely synthetic, but change it every 3-4000 miles. The other thing to make sure of is the PCV (crank case vetilation) is working properly.
Your position is that he is wrong, correct?

I do note that the Owners Manual for the 2010 Chrysler Town & Country also recommends 5W-20 oil for the 3.8L engine. This would seem to indicate if lighter weight oil caused reliability issues, these issues would be common to the 3.8 in all circumstances in which it used 5W-20.
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Old 02-24-2011, 03:03 PM   #40
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I've stayed out of this one so far but, to be clear, you're disagreeing with Pat@FieldsJeep's statements in this thread, which were as follows:





Your position is that he is wrong, correct?
Absolutely. Why did he not include the TSB???
Because there is not one.

There may have been a TSB that came out regarding incorrectly installed rings, but nothing to due with low tension rings requiring 5w20 oil.
Thats hogwash.

Here is more food for thought.

"Ford is bumping up against its CAFE requirements and recommends SAE 5W-20 oil for most of its engines in the United States. It claims SAE 5W-20 is optimal for fuel efficiency and wear.

To determine if SAE 5W-20 oils provide the same level of protection as SAE 5W-30 oils, Dagenham Motors in England, one of the largest Ford dealers in Europe, was consulted. SAE 5W-30 is required for warranty purposes in England, and SAE 5W-20 is not even available. If SAE 5W-20 were better for both fuel economy and wear, why would Ford not recommend it for its same engines in Europe?"



Lets ask one of our European or Australian members what oil is recommended in their Jeeps owners manual.

I guarantee you it does not say 5w20.

Again, 5w20 is not going to cause your engine to grenade. Does it offer the same level of protection as a heaver weight oil in extreme temps or hard use conditions?
No it does not.

"As wear increases, the efficiency of an engine declines. Valve train wear slightly changes valve timing and movement. Ring and liner wear affect compression. The wear hurts fuel efficiency and power output by an imperceptible amount at first, but then the difference in fuel economy between an SAE 10W-30 and SAE 5W-20 is hardly noticeable. Efficiency continues to decline as wear progresses. Perhaps optimizing wear protection is the way to reduce fuel consumption over the life of the engine.

Certainly engines that have experienced significant ring and liner wear benefit from thicker oils. Thicker oil use results in compression increases, performance improvements and reduced oil consumption."

Again, run what you want.
But just don't take everything the auto manufacturers say as gospel.
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Old 02-24-2011, 03:20 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
Lets ask one of our European or Australian members what oil is recommended in their Jeeps owners manual.
I guarantee you it does not say 5w20.
Now that's an interesting idea.

I checked the Australian, Canadian, and British Jeep webpages. None of them actually allow you to download an owners manual. (Well, the Canadian one says it does, but won't actually let you do it.)
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Old 02-24-2011, 03:52 PM   #42
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-------------------------BINGO-------------------------------


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Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
Absolutely. Why did he not include the TSB???
Because there is not one.

There may have been a TSB that came out regarding incorrectly installed rings, but nothing to due with low tension rings requiring 5w20 oil.
Thats hogwash.

Here is more food for thought.

"Ford is bumping up against its CAFE requirements and recommends SAE 5W-20 oil for most of its engines in the United States. It claims SAE 5W-20 is optimal for fuel efficiency and wear.

To determine if SAE 5W-20 oils provide the same level of protection as SAE 5W-30 oils, Dagenham Motors in England, one of the largest Ford dealers in Europe, was consulted. SAE 5W-30 is required for warranty purposes in England, and SAE 5W-20 is not even available. If SAE 5W-20 were better for both fuel economy and wear, why would Ford not recommend it for its same engines in Europe?"



Lets ask one of our European or Australian members what oil is recommended in their Jeeps owners manual.

I guarantee you it does not say 5w20.

Again, 5w20 is not going to cause your engine to grenade. Does it offer the same level of protection as a heaver weight oil in extreme temps or hard use conditions?
No it does not.

"As wear increases, the efficiency of an engine declines. Valve train wear slightly changes valve timing and movement. Ring and liner wear affect compression. The wear hurts fuel efficiency and power output by an imperceptible amount at first, but then the difference in fuel economy between an SAE 10W-30 and SAE 5W-20 is hardly noticeable. Efficiency continues to decline as wear progresses. Perhaps optimizing wear protection is the way to reduce fuel consumption over the life of the engine.

Certainly engines that have experienced significant ring and liner wear benefit from thicker oils. Thicker oil use results in compression increases, performance improvements and reduced oil consumption."

Again, run what you want.
But just don't take everything the auto manufacturers say as gospel.
Thanx Rube

My 1993 Corvette LT1-reccommended 5w-20 Mobile One oil and even that was because of lab studies of better long term MILEAGE !!

It's a great day in the neighborhood !

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Old 02-24-2011, 04:57 PM   #43
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-------------------------BINGO-------------------------------




Thanx Rube

My 1993 Corvette LT1-reccommended 5w-20 Mobile One oil and even that was because of lab studies of better long term MILEAGE !!

It's a great day in the neighborhood !

JIMBO
And where are these studies you are citing? Jimbo??

Talk to some of your Corvette track day friends & I wager they don't run 5w20 weight for hard, i.e. racing type use.

The Vettes engine is not being worked very hard under daily use if you consider its hp/weight ratio, aerodynamics, & low rolling resistance street tires.

The Jeeps engine on the other hand is working much much harder every day.
Terrible hp/weight ratio, heavy oversize big lug tires, aerodynamics of a brick, bogging through mud, excessive engine heat & low speeds crawling, etc....

Again, I'm not trying to start an argument. Just stating facts.

If running baby oil in your old vette makes you happy. Do it.


Btw..what is with all the annoying smilies?
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Old 02-24-2011, 04:59 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by JIMBOX View Post
-------------------------BINGO-------------------------------




Thanx Rube

My 1993 Corvette LT1-reccommended 5w-20 Mobile One oil and even that was because of lab studies of better long term MILEAGE !!

It's a great day in the neighborhood !

JIMBO
Well I guess I'll step in here to say that my 2008 Corvette LS3 recommends 5w-30!

Since Corvette goes to the extreme of a skip shift that forces you from first to fourth at part throttle in order to save fuel, it seems counter intuitive that they would then require 5w-30 if the fuel economy differences between 5w-20 and 5w-30 were worth bothering with....Just my $.02.
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Old 02-24-2011, 05:07 PM   #45
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Sorry I agreed with you Rube-that won't happen again !!


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
And where are these studies you are citing? Jimbo??

Talk to some of your Corvette track day friends & I wager they don't run 5w20 weight for hard, i.e. racing type use.

The Vettes engine is not being worked very hard under daily use if you consider its hp/weight ratio, aerodynamics, & low rolling resistance street tires.

The Jeeps engine on the other hand is working much much harder every day.
Terrible hp/weight ratio, heavy oversize big lug tires, aerodynamics of a brick, bogging through mud, excessive engine heat & low speeds crawling, etc....

Again, I'm not trying to start an argument. Just stating facts.

If running baby oil in your old vette makes you happy. Do it.


Btw..what is with all the annoying smilies?
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Old 02-24-2011, 05:11 PM   #46
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I thought it was odd when I read the manual on my '07 and they recommend changing the oil and filter every 3,000 miles (if I remember right) that struck me as old school frequency, most manufactures are stretching that out to as much as 8-10k miles! Of course they build all kinds of instrumentation and calculations into the oil life monitors, but still. I plan on using the recommended oil weight and changing at the recommended frequency. I will have to reread the manual on my 3.8 to see if it says 5w20 or 5w30.
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Old 02-24-2011, 06:34 PM   #47
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What is it about oils that cause everyone to get emotional?

Anyway, I have a strng chemistry backgroun and have done a lot of research on oils. I used to race a 500 hp Mustang and raan in circles with people with a lot MUCH, MUCH faster cars. Over the years, here is what I have concluded:

- Oil companies spend a fortune on advertising. Follow the money. Most "professional" racers use whatever they are getting paid to use and they will tell you that is best.

- Unless you are using a vehicle exceptionally hard, use what the manual states and change at the recomended intervals.

- Mechanics are a not a good source on oils unless they build engines for a living.

- Engines these days last for hundreds of thousands of miles. They will not fail if you change your oil at recomended intervals but they will if you use the wrong viscosity. ALWAYS use what the book says!!!

- There was a wonderful, in-depth study done a while back on NYC cabs. Have you seen it? They ran synthetic, organic oils, altered intervals, and tore engines apart before and after the study to measure tollerences. Conclusions: Use the recomended viscosity. Synthetic oils are not worth it, unless you start going beyond about 10,000 miles between changes.

- The ONLY way to know what your oil change interval should be would be to perform an engine oil analysis on your oil. If you want to get nuts, send a sample in at 3,000 miles and again at 5,000 miles and see how it looks.

What do I use? My Mustang only ever saw Mobil 1. Why? Because of re-sale....people seem to think it makes a difference or a statement about how is cared for eventhough, it mattered not. My Saab only sees Mobile I 0W-40 because that is what the book says. My other cars (Ford Escape, Chrysler Pacifica, Jeep Wranger) only see organic oil.
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Old 02-24-2011, 06:44 PM   #48
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It's all relative!

This thread has me laughing now. So much jibber jabber over oil. Ha ha ha!
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Old 02-24-2011, 06:48 PM   #49
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Heh Heh, yea, popstop-you got that right, but


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It's all relative!

This thread has me laughing now. So much jibber jabber over oil. Ha ha ha!
It's not quite as funny as the idiotic "Jeep Wave" threads, or "Auto vs Manual tranny", those are a real riot !!

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Old 02-24-2011, 07:08 PM   #50
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I won't argue that! Ha ha ha!
I always know where to look for a good laugh when I need it!
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:39 PM   #51
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Sorry I agreed with you Rube-that won't happen again !!




JIMBO

JIMBOX,

I guess I misread your post as being sarcastic & I apologize for sounding like a jerk.

I guess I get all fired up at these oil threads too!

Again, sorry Jimbo.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:43 PM   #52
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Heh Heh,don't sweatit Rube-nobody likes me anyway--


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Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
JIMBOX,

I guess I misread your post as being sarcastic & I apologize for sounding like a jerk.

I guess I get all fired up at these oil threads too!

Again, sorry Jimbo.
Read my post #7 and you'll see !!

Good day !

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Old 06-26-2011, 11:17 PM   #53
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Awesome, interesting read. Good points were made on both sides of the argument. My question is, did anyone contact Chrysler and asked them if they'd void the warranty if 5W30 instead of 5W20 was used in the 3.8 liter engine?
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Old 06-26-2011, 11:31 PM   #54
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Awesome, interesting read. Good points were made on both sides of the argument. My question is, did anyone contact Chrysler and asked them if they'd void the warranty if 5W30 instead of 5W20 was used in the 3.8 liter engine?
Further to that, read this article:
Truth about 5w-20 and 0W-20 Motor Oil - technical facts
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Old 02-04-2012, 03:44 PM   #55
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has anyone herd of the magnson moss act?? it states that as long as the oil you use meets api standards and carrys the api stamp on bottle no matter what viscosity will NOT void your warranty! 5w-20 is for fuel economy ONLY! You get a 35% decrease in engine life using 5w-20 as opposed to using 5w-30 oil. Auto makers have to up their mileage ratings on the cars they make as a whole each year. this is how they get 1% more gas mileage with the light 5w-20 oil at the cost of protection of your engine.
should they care?.....I would think not....they want to sell cars.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:40 PM   #56
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I wanted to learn about this after a local tire dealer in Aiken installed 5w-30 instead of my requested 5w-20 when I was on the road this summer. The oil mechanic informed me that 5w-30 was an oil option listed on the service tag on the bottom of the motor. Gas mileage appeared to drop by 1mpg but no more rattle at start up on my 2011 Wrangler. I will stick with 5w-30 from now on. Evidently the thicker oil has better lubrication of the top side at start up.
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Old 08-08-2012, 04:43 PM   #57
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I have a brother who is actually a mechanical engineer who designs internal combustion (air-cooled) engines for a living. If you REALLY want to see somebody get animated about lubrication, get him on a rant...it's comical. His opinion based on his experience is that synthetic motor oil is a waste of money for passenger cars and trucks. As he says "it still gets dirty and has to be changed", so extended durability of the oil and resistance to viscosity breakdown is not an issue. Obviously, high performance powerplants pose different requirements from lubricants.

I also have a very close family member who has been fortunate to work many years in and around NASCAR race shops. Does not matter what big azz sticker is on a race car, they all run the same un-named full synthetic...I was left to assume Mobil-1; the guy that told me this was on the Havoline (#42) car at the time. I have been in NASCAR race garages and oil is pumped from un-marked 55gal drums. It's also worth noting that very thin lubricants are used for qualifying (both in the engine and complete drivetrain) to reduce residual drag, but thicker lubricants are exchanged prior to practice sessions and the race. The obvious conclusion is that the thicker lubes offer better protection in these extreme environments....and YES, they still experience engine and drivetrain failures due to lubrication failures.

My take....run what you want for as long as you want, but I run dino juice (10W-30 in my old TJ...probably 5W-30 in my new JK) and change it on regular intervals of 5000 miles.
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Old 08-08-2012, 06:18 PM   #58
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I use 5w-30 Amsoil in my 2011. This will not void my warranty. In my opinion this is the best choice for my 3.8.
Engine tolerances are very close today but still no two engines are exactly the same, nor treated the same.
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Old 08-08-2012, 06:41 PM   #59
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I use 5w30 M1 in my 11.
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Old 08-10-2012, 12:48 PM   #60
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Can someone from overseas let us know what their manual says is the recommended oil for the 3.8L? I switched to 5-30 when I heard that that's what is used in Europe/Australia and the 5-20 was just for US CAFE, but I would like to have some verification.

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