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Old 11-09-2011, 08:59 PM   #1
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Exclamation Can't Stall Manual in 4 Lo ???

I'm still shopping for a 2012 JK. Been reading up on pros/cons for manual vs auto. I keep coming across advocates for the manual that say you don't need the clutch much when in crawl mode (which I'm assuming means 4 wheel low). I don't understand this, can anyone explain?

What if you break loose when going up hill and need to brake to re-allign for a 2nd attempt?

Thanks in advance...

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Old 11-09-2011, 09:06 PM   #2
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You can't stall as long as the wheels are turning. When the Jeep tries to stall it increases the rpm to keep it moving but if you bind it to the point the wheels can't move it will stall. It has to. The motor is directly tied to the wheels when the clutch isn't engaged. But you can hit the clutch if you need to stop completely and when you let out the clutch as long as the Jeep can move it will without stalling. So clutch to re-align then release the clutch and you shouldn't need to gas unless you need it.

This is not an advantage over a Auto, just an advantage over older manuals.

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Old 11-09-2011, 09:11 PM   #3
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^^Right. Modern Wranglers with a manual trans have a "no stall" feature while in 4Lo. The computer will rev the engine if it senses an impending stall.

In general, this stops a stall and will allow you for example to just put it in gear and let it crawl slowly. Even stepping on the brakes will not cause a stall (or even stop the jeep).

As Rick mentioned though, eventually the system will give way. If you've truly binded the wheels up so they cannot move and you don't push in the clutch, you'll stall.
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:30 PM   #4
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OK, that makes sense. I'm leaning toward the manual, but haven't off-roaded in one before. With winter looming, I'm sure I'll want to hit the slopes (in the jeep) and I can imagine a lot of wheel spin.

Any advise for someone with 10+ years experience on a manual, but a newbie to off-roading?
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoR
Any advise for someone with 10+ years experience on a manual, but a newbie to off-roading?
You'll be fine, just go with some experienced folks and do some research on basic techniques before heading out there.

As to the manual specifically, that's where the anti-stall feature comes in handy. Just put it in 4Lo, start in 2nd or 3rd, and let it crawl around. If you want to stop, push in the clutch before you bother braking. Vastly cuts down on the clutch in/clutch out you'd be doing otherwise.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:39 PM   #6
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Never before

I recently purchased a 2011 Jk unlimited Flame Red. I have a 6 speed with the 3.21 gears. Okay for the hardcore "jeepers" this gearing is bad, blah, blah, blah.

Some things I've noted. I am a guy and as such I do not read directions...I drive and go...I can learn on my own, I don't need no stinkin' salesperson telling me about the options just take my check and let me go "wheelin'!"

So...I learned on a standard (1981) and gave it up in 1995. This was my first since then. Just like a bike, never forget, right? I test drove the Jeep I bought, no problems...shifted great, I bogged it down a couple of times...to be expected, didn't stall, I feel great.

I lay down the cash and take the jeep home and while driving with my wife I pop the clutch and stall it at every other stop sign. Give me a break! My wife thinks I can't drive a standard! I'm not a kid and I'm not old...what's the deal? First lesson...Hill assist. Okay I did not listen to the sales chick. This option sucks, or does it?? Yes it does but I learn I can disable it through my steering wheel controls! Whew! Hill Assist...OFF.

Fast forward a week or so and I thought I would try to be a hero again to my 15 year old boy...I was a hero to him say, 10 years ago, but now he has football players, call of duty the the MW3 JK...shit, I need a 2nd Job. Anyway I convince him to lay off of me if I give him a driving lesson. So, without actually trying to get to know my Jeep, or Jeeps in general we go to our nearest parking lot and I give him the speech my Dad gave me...first find release point of clutch. Do this by starting on a flat surface and ease of the clutch until you hear the engine changes sound and the tach shows the rpm's dipping slightly below idle.

Okay, so far so good. I tell my boy that at the point the engine sound changes and the rpm's dip slightly, it's time to add some accelerator while letting off clutch. Hmmm. While he is playing with the clutch he let the clutch out without hitting the gas...it doesn't stall. How can that be?? That was nothing like when I was learning. I check the stinking hill holder thingy and it's still off.

I now find out that you can not (yes you can) stall this Jeep. Okay, you can. But here is how. If you are at a stop and you keep your right foot away from the throttle and just use your left to release the clutch, you can not stall my jeep. Tell me if yours is different so I can check on the problem. If you use the throttle and screw up the clutch you can stall. I didn't understand this concept until the rock crawling, water thing I read about. Maybe this applies to 4 low as well. I am going to try and report back.

Bottom line...for someone learning to drive a standard, a Jeep is bad. It begs for bad habits...But for fun and time with your son and driving on the beach, it's priceless.

I am going to do a 4 wheel lo experiment this weekend on the beaches of Rhode Island and I will report back my findings. I hope on some level this helps.

This is my first Jeep and for my fellow manual transmission buddies out there...keep the art alive for our sons and daughters deserve the moments when we make machines go and not vice versa!
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:54 AM   #7
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The anti stall is a great feature. It saves you from having to slip the clutch when you need to crawl over something. HSA can also be a great feature if you can master it. It holds in direct proportion to the amount of break pressure applied while stopped. While you might not need it on the street, it can be very valuable on the trail.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:03 AM   #8
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so in 4 lo you can start in 2nd or 3rd gear? Do u actually change gears like in normal driving like start in 1st and then shift to 2nd? Does each gear serve a general purpose like do u need to be in a certain gear going up a hill, or a certain gear for going through a dip, rut, etc? and certain standard gear for just being on a stretch of flat for a bit?

Total newb to 4 lo, have used 4 hi few times in my life for snow on roads but never have used 4 lo before
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:09 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beardedsmiley View Post
so in 4 lo you can start in 2nd or 3rd gear? Do u actually change gears like in normal driving like start in 1st and then shift to 2nd? Does each gear serve a general purpose like do u need to be in a certain gear going up a hill, or a certain gear for going through a dip, rut, etc? and certain standard gear for just being on a stretch of flat for a bit?

Total newb to 4 lo, have used 4 hi few times in my life for snow on roads but never have used 4 lo before
Yes, but it is geared very, very low. In 4L and 1st gear, you can start the Jeep without using the clutch. This is extremely valuable if you are stopped in deep water where you should never use your clutch.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:29 AM   #10
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Yes, but it is geared very, very low. In 4L and 1st gear, you can start the Jeep without using the clutch. This is extremely valuable if you are stopped in deep water where you should never use your clutch.
what is to deep to use clutch? and what does it do to clutch?
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:33 AM   #11
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Anything touching the bell housing is too deep. Using the clutch allows water, mud, or other debris in.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:38 AM   #12
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so it's prob just safest to be in 4lo and in first gear if u run across any water on trail?
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:41 AM   #13
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:42 AM   #14
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Hill assist. Okay I did not listen to the sales chick. This option sucks, or does it?? Yes it does but I learn I can disable it through my steering wheel controls! Whew! Hill Assist...OFF.
HSA can be disabled through the steering wheel controls? I didn't realize that. I find this particular feature anoying as hell. I have been driving sticks for 25 years and have no problem starting on a hill. It's frustrating having the brakes kick on and hold you there while you are trying to get going. I can certainly see the value of it off-road, but on the road it just gets in the way.

So is this an option on the EVIC display, disabling it?
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:55 AM   #15
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sorry for thread jacking, but thought it was interesting...i used to live in mystic, ct but waited to move to florida before buying my flame red 2011 (although a 2door) i just hear that disney ride "its a small world after all" playing through my head right now.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:21 PM   #16
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HSA can be disabled through the steering wheel controls? I didn't realize that. I find this particular feature anoying as hell. I have been driving sticks for 25 years and have no problem starting on a hill. It's frustrating having the brakes kick on and hold you there while you are trying to get going. I can certainly see the value of it off-road, but on the road it just gets in the way.

So is this an option on the EVIC display, disabling it?
Yep if you have the EVIC computer it's under "Personal Settings". I was turning it off but I've been working on learning how to use it because I can see how it would be useful if used correctly.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:31 PM   #17
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You can still stall it...

The feature helps, but it will still stall.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:43 PM   #18
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I read where someone on WF said that even the brakes wouldn't stop 4Lo so I tried it. Put it in 4lo, let the clutch out, then stood on the brakes. Jeep just kept plowing forward. It was cool.

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