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Old 10-01-2011, 08:01 PM   #1
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Chrysler will void your warrany if you lift your Jeep

This is a colossally long thread but it scared the bejesus out of me. I ordered a lift kit *and* an extended warranty today. Now I'm scared to install the lift....

ATTENTION - Chrysler WILL VOID Your Warranty if You Lift Your Jeep

The upshot is that according to the guy who authored the thread, a dealership is required to flag your VIN if a lift kit has been installed so that extra scrutiny can be given when approving warranty repairs.

Translated: They may just go out of their way to disallow any warranty repairs if you lift your Jeep.

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Old 10-01-2011, 08:10 PM   #2
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This has already been thoroughly discussed here:

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/thi...=void+warranty

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Old 10-01-2011, 08:14 PM   #3
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I love lifting my jeep.
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Old 10-01-2011, 08:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ESP123
I love lifting my jeep.
I lift things up, I put them down.
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Old 10-01-2011, 08:26 PM   #5
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I shoulda known that thread would be old news over here. Still getting up to speed on all the forums.

Still, the thing that's troublesome is that there is no definitive answer to exactly what the penalty is, if any, for installing a lift.

And is a 2" lift as likely to cause an issue as a 4" lift?
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Old 10-01-2011, 08:28 PM   #6
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1,263,485,331 times and counting...

Nothing but Odometer tampering will void your warranty. Lifting your Jeep does not void your warranty.
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Old 10-01-2011, 08:40 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by ESP123 View Post
1,263,485,331 times and counting...

Nothing but Odometer tampering will void your warranty. Lifting your Jeep does not void your warranty.
Is there an official Jeep/Chrysler blurb anywhere to this effect?

I can't imagine all the people who have experienced this issue are making it up.
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Old 10-01-2011, 08:41 PM   #8
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...man I gotta start using search. So far everything I've asked has been discussed to death.

Dang.
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Old 10-01-2011, 08:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbradnc View Post
Is there an official Jeep/Chrysler blurb anywhere to this effect?

I can't imagine all the people who have experienced this issue are making it up.
Have you read your owners manual? Specifically to what is stated will "void" your warranty?
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:01 PM   #10
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Have you read your owners manual? Specifically to what is stated will "void" your warranty?
No, but I've got 4 browser tabs open right now reading about the total confusion surrounding the issue.

So far I think I've read about 8 different answers provided by dealers to the question, "Does installing a lift affect my warranty?" (assuming of course the information provided by the various forum members is true).
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:45 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by tbradnc View Post
So far I think I've read about 8 different answers provided by dealers to the question, "Does installing a lift affect my warranty?" (assuming of course the information provided by the various forum members is true).
Your warranty is with Chrysler not the dealership.
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:58 PM   #12
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The easiest way to think logically is to think what a warranty is. It is protection against defects in workmanship or materials. In other words, they are to blame if something they did or used goes wrong.

Iof someone modifies a vehicle, then logically the same warranty would not apply to changed... I repeat changed parts or directly affected systems. This does not mean that changing an exhaust nullifies a warranty protection on the transmission, etc. However, changing suspension components or frame geometry may be argued that it has an effect or suspension components, tie rods, axles, whatever.

Scutiny may also mean that if you have turned your Jeep into mudzilla, they might look a bit harder at a failed part to determine cauusation than they would at a stock DD. You would too.
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:12 AM   #13
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cross you fingers if you have a lift... be nice to your dealer and maybe your jeep will not get flagged.
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Old 10-02-2011, 06:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j.luis
cross you fingers if you have a lift... be nice to your dealer and maybe your jeep will not get flagged.
Don't just cross your fingers. Read up on warranty laws educate yourself. Don't let the dealers push you around. Use common sesnse though, and don't expect miracles. Remember, you've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbradnc

Is there an official Jeep/Chrysler blurb anywhere to this effect?

I can't imagine all the people who have experienced this issue are making it up.
Your warranty manual explains everything in plain English, rather than the legalese you find in most of those types of documents. You can download it online from the Jeep Owners website. Given its availability, I'm always surprised at the amount of confusion on this topic.
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:46 AM   #16
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From the Jeep warranty information -

Quote:
Some Modifications Don’t Void the
Warranties But Aren’t Covered
Certain changes that you might make to your
vehicle do not, by themselves, void the warranties
described in this booklet. Examples of some of
these changes are:
• installing non-Chrysler Motors LLC ("Chrysler")
parts, components, or equipment (such as a non-
Chrysler radio or speed control); and
• using special non-Chrysler materials or
additives.
But your warranties don’t cover any part that was
not on your vehicle when it left the manufacturing
plant or is not certified for use on your vehicle. Nor
do they cover the costs of any repairs or adjustments
that might be caused or needed because of the
installation or use of non-Chrysler parts, components,
equipment, materials, or additives.
Performance or racing parts are considered to be
non-Chrysler parts. Repairs or adjustments caused
by their use are not covered under your warranties.
Examples of the types of alterations not covered are:
• installing accessories — except for genuine
Chrysler / MOPAR accessories installed by
an authorized Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep dealer;
• applying rustproofing or other protection
products;
I should clarify this by saying that I have a Jeep dealership install my mods after a thorough conversation with the service manager and the mech who actually does the work (I only agree to 2 mechs to touch my Jeep - one does general work and specializes in wiring, the other is a lift wiz). I discuss what I'm buying and whether or not they have suggestions on alternatives. So far (thanks in large part to this forum), they've agreed with the brands, models, and quality of everything I've put on my Jeep, and the service manager has already done two 'tweaks' to parts I've added at no cost to me. It's a relationship that needs to be cultivated if you're using their time/resources for work on your Jeep. I saw a guy with a mild lift (DIY) arguing with the same service manager that some front end part should be replaced because it was an original part while every other part surrounding it was not. The service manager tried to compromise with the guy, but he was just not interested, so the service manager had a mech put his Jeep on a lift and go through it in mad detail. The end result - he would pay full price for replacement or take it somewhere else.
The moral of the story - if you use the dealership's expertise and resources, take coffee to your service manager and mech; stop in and say 'hi' every once in a while... your Jeep and your wallet will thank you later.
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:56 AM   #17
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I agree that relationship building is key.

The potential problem with that is that you could find yourself in a situation where you were unable to take the Jeep to that particular dealership and have to deal with a different dealer where there is not a relationship.

I guess you could sit around and dream up scenarios all day long, huh?
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:27 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by 2012-Rubicon View Post
Don't just cross your fingers. Read up on warranty laws educate yourself. Don't let the dealers push you around. Use common sesnse though, and don't expect miracles. Remember, you've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Trust me I do not expect miracles.... about the dealers, many do not even know all the details on what they sell... many dealers do not even know the specifics on the warranties, so your right we do need to educate ourselves.
The problem is some dealerships can be a pain in the rear and can make their customers lives miserable 1) because they do not know details, 2) because you rub them the wrong way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012-Rubicon View Post
Don't let the dealers push you around. Remember, you've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
I'm not a person to fall for dealership bullsh!t.
If things do not initially go your way expect to spend countless amount of hours to get things resolved, too much red tape. If your vehicle gets flagged by Jeep/Chrysler expect more denials on warranty repairs. Their might come a time that the only way you will be able to stand up for yourself is when you take a lawyer with you into the dealership, but even then don't expect things to go too smoothly.
From experience, common sense.... be nice and courteous ( you really do not need to keep your fingers crossed)

I will be installing a lift on my jeep regardless.
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:36 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by trennmaschine View Post
From the Jeep warranty information -



I should clarify this by saying that I have a Jeep dealership install my mods after a thorough conversation with the service manager and the mech who actually does the work (I only agree to 2 mechs to touch my Jeep - one does general work and specializes in wiring, the other is a lift wiz). I discuss what I'm buying and whether or not they have suggestions on alternatives. So far (thanks in large part to this forum), they've agreed with the brands, models, and quality of everything I've put on my Jeep, and the service manager has already done two 'tweaks' to parts I've added at no cost to me. It's a relationship that needs to be cultivated if you're using their time/resources for work on your Jeep. I saw a guy with a mild lift (DIY) arguing with the same service manager that some front end part should be replaced because it was an original part while every other part surrounding it was not. The service manager tried to compromise with the guy, but he was just not interested, so the service manager had a mech put his Jeep on a lift and go through it in mad detail. The end result - he would pay full price for replacement or take it somewhere else.
The moral of the story - if you use the dealership's expertise and resources, take coffee to your service manager and mech; stop in and say 'hi' every once in a while... your Jeep and your wallet will thank you later.
I totally agree with you (no need to keep your finger crossed) just be nice and courteous.
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Old 10-02-2011, 01:49 PM   #20
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I asked the service manager soon after I bought my 07 and he confirmed what I've been told on here, " a lift will not void the warranty" Maybe some dealers are a**holes
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:08 PM   #21
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I asked the service manager soon after I bought my 07 and he confirmed what I've been told on here, " a lift will not void the warranty" Maybe some dealers are a**holes
"Void the warranty" seems to be a poor choice of wording.

A better way to say it is "If you install a lift and have a warranty problem that the dealership can say was caused by the lift you could find yourself SOL."

"Void the warranty" sounds like the entire warranty would be voided meaning even something like the AC compressor wouldn't be covered if you installed a lift.
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbradnc View Post
"Void the warranty" seems to be a poor choice of wording.

A better way to say it is "If you install a lift and have a warranty problem that the dealership can say was caused by the lift you could find yourself SOL."

"Void the warranty" sounds like the entire warranty would be voided meaning even something like the AC compressor wouldn't be covered if you installed a lift.
This is the exact problem. Most members of internet forums do not know the difference between "voiding the warranty" and the "denial of warranty coverage". I can't tell you how many times I see someone say their warranty may be voided because of mods. Not only is that incorrect, but doing so is illegal. The manufacturer shouldn't be held liable for parts you install or any damage those parts do to the vehicle, and they aren't liable for those things. Everything else they are still on the hook for.
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:21 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbradnc

"Void the warranty" seems to be a poor choice of wording.

A better way to say it is "If you install a lift and have a warranty problem that the dealership can say was caused by the lift you could find yourself SOL."

"Void the warranty" sounds like the entire warranty would be voided meaning even something like the AC compressor wouldn't be covered if you installed a lift.
Your right, what are you trying to say?

That's what I meant, he meant--whatever.

Just the whole warranty would not be voided.

Component failure do to the lift or the parts themselves are a different story.

I'm talking about the entire warranty.


Edit: what oilwell said
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:33 PM   #24
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This is the exact problem. Most members of internet forums do not know the difference between "voiding the warranty" and the "denial of warranty coverage". I can't tell you how many times I see someone say their warranty may be voided because of mods. Not only is that incorrect, but doing so is illegal. The manufacturer shouldn't be held liable for parts you install or any damage those parts do to the vehicle, and they aren't liable for those things. Everything else they are still on the hook for.
Now that we got that straightened out...

So, then.... it's still somewhat of a crap shoot. The real problem is if you go to a dealer and he flags your Jeep as having a lift then no matter where you take it you're going to have a potential problem.

That is assuming of course that the dealer for whatever reason is trying to get out of making a warranty repair by falsely blaming a problem on a lift (in this case).

The safest thing appears to avoid the lift if you're really paranoid about your warranty.
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbradnc

Now that we got that straightened out...

So, then.... it's still somewhat of a crap shoot. The real problem is if you go to a dealer and he flags your Jeep as having a lift then no matter where you take it you're going to have a potential problem.

That is assuming of course that the dealer for whatever reason is trying to get out of making a warranty repair by falsely blaming a problem on a lift (in this case).

The safest thing appears to avoid the lift if you're really paranoid about your warranty.
It's illegal to do so, but I see your concerns. Some dealers are more "mod friendly" than others.
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Old 10-02-2011, 05:49 PM   #26
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I had the bad side of these experiences with my MC. Found out after the fact that twice paying for a carb rebuild/sync ($488 each) and once paying for fork seals/bearings ($215) that the "carb job" consisted of them spraying carb cleaner in til the float(s) quit sticking and using a heavier oil (far too heavy for the forks) to stop the seals from leaking. When I complained I basically got told that the dealer could refuse the right to service anyone... douche-bags! I asked another rider about it and he said "what do you want to do"? I told him I'd like to start with carbs. He said "Oh, I've been doing them for years, I'll show you how to do it"... I got the carbs out of the bike and after we both looked at them, his response was - "yep - they didn't do sh$t to these"... So now I'm learning to do carbs. Next I'm learning to rebuild my forks. I've since come up with a list of mods and, thanks to the support of a forum (much like this one), I'm doing all the work. Luckily the dealer I go to let's me watch (and learn) when either Ed or Kyle works on my Jeep. I'm anticipating the day when I just stop depending on them and do my own work on both of my vehicles.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:12 PM   #27
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Some good info....yeah, I know it's a different vehicle but it helps explain the issue.

Speed:Sport:Life » Don

So the big news Wednesday was that Ford issued a TSB telling its dealers how to check for aftermarket parts and/or PCM calibrations on 2011+ Mustangs. Every time something like this comes to light (and this is far from the first such bulletin from Ford or, for that matter, other OEMs), the various and sundry interweb fora erupt in dismay, and folks start trotting out the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 and proclaiming “Ford can’t do that!”

Yes, Ford (or any other auto manufacturer) can do that. Magnuson-Moss was never intended to encompass modifications from factory specification. If you choose to modify your under-warranty automobile, you pays your moneys and you takes your chances. Muck with the PCM cal and you can expect the powertrain warranty to be void. I don’t know why people are surprised by this.

Some background: for 18-plus years, I was one of the guys at “the factory” (in fact, I worked in a succession of Herman Miller and Steelcase cubicles) who designed bits and pieces of the cars and trucks you buy and drive. One of our jobs was to look at all the warranty return parts and determine root cause of failure (if possible), so we could fix them. I’ve got time in at all of the US “Big 3” and a supplier who sold to pretty much everyone.

Back in the day, we’d get people trying to warranty the then-brand-new 4.6L 4V Cobra motors with broken piston ring lands or #7 con rod bearing pounded into mulch and the owners would deny, deny, deny, they’d had a blower and/or nitrous on it until we showed them how we knew they were lying (hint: everything attached to a car leaves a witness mark, and the OEMs know what the fasteners look like after the initial installation – and what they look like after someone’s undone/reinstalled them). Even underdrive pulleys were enough to make one of those engines cook when run hard in a hot climate — yeah, you’d get 6 hp, but you’d drop coolant flow from 58 GPM to 36 GPM at peak engine power, just as it needs all the flow it can get. Oops. Oh, and to the guy who called and asked if we could just pull those high-flow injectors and the aluminum flywheel he’d installed on the destroyed engine but forgot to remove before towing the broken car to the dealer, and ship them back to him via UPS? Yeah, not gonna happen.

But the main thing here is very simple: the manufacturer warranties the car as they produced it. Change the car, and the manufacturer is no longer responsible for the configuration of whatever you changed — you are. The Magnuson-Moss Act was not, and is not, intended to cover aftermarket parts that deviate from factory specification. Its intent then and now is to cover things like oil, filters, bulbs — common maintenance items — and preventing the OEM from requiring their captive brand of maintenance part in order to maintain warranty coverage (see §2302(c) for this section of the Act). You can use a Fram or Purolator or Mobil oil filter that’s equivalent to the OEM filter, for example. M-M does not, and has never intended that the OEM can’t void your powertrain warranty if you put a blower on it and pop the motor, or flash an aftermarket cal into the ECM that doesn’t have the OEM cal’s detonation protection strategy, leading to holes torched in piston tops.

Lots of aftermarket hot-rod companies hide behind Magnuson-Moss. They’re wrong. The better aftermarket companies warranty their product. The best warranty the downstream systems on the car from the consequences of using the product, effectively replacing the now-voided OEM warranty. They do it in writing, up front.

I ran into this all the time with the 4.6L 4V crowd, and the PowerStroke crowd. Folks just couldn’t grokk why Ford wouldn’t warranty their blowed-up engines and driveline parts after they’d increased power output by at least 50%, and often 100% or more over the stock value. They’d trot out Magnuson-Moss like it was some kind of magic shield.

Um, no.

Take a look at US Code Title 15, Chapter 50, § 2304(c). That tells you how an OEM can deny a warranty claim or outright void the related warranty, in the event of modification or abuse of the product, damage caused by the consumer, or failure of the consumer to properly maintain the product.

So why do people think it’s the OEM’s fault that their engines, transmissions, etc. cannot reliably handle power outputs well beyond the OEM power/torque rating? There’s this perception (and yes, I’m aware that perception = reality for most folks) that the OEMs (and this goes for pretty much all of them) somehow build a lot of extra power-making capacity into their engines, and “detune them” for [insurance, liability, cost-cutting, fuel-economy, emissions, some combo of the above] reasons, and all one needs to do is, say, put some bigger injectors on it and flash the ECM and voila! You’ve unlocked the hidden potential of the engine The Man doesn’t want you to have.

There’s another reason OEMs don’t sell production vehicles with engines tuned to the bleeding edge of their power capability: reliability. Let’s look at a connecting rod. You’re an OEM. There’s a core set of parts that you are required by law to warranty for as much as 15 years/150K miles (California’s PZEV warranty — and it doesn’t make economic sense to make 2 different specs of engine internals). You have a target power output that your marketing requires. Thus, the connecting rod must be able to safely manage S psi of stress from the combination of cylinder pressure and mechanical loading through N cycles without moving into the nasty part of the S-N fatigue curve. You size the connecting rod and choose its material/manufacturing process accordingly, also keeping in mind the price point marketing requires and the mass targets necessary to meet overall vehicle mass targets that effect emissions/fuel economy testing inertia weight class as well as other performance parameters. Do you see the tap-dance involved in keeping all these — and more — parameters met? The rest of the engine and driveline is specified similarly.

Now some aftermarket guy with a PC and a scan tool “unlocks the hidden power” of the engine and increases output by, say 25%. If you’re a 5.0L Coyote engine, in Boss 302 trim and with the TracKey, that’s upping the power from 444 net bhp at the flywheel to 555ish net bhp at the flywheel, and let’s say it’s at the same RPM to take that part out of the equation. How does that happen? Well, you have to make more torque at the given RPM. That means the amount of force imparted to the crankshaft by the connecting rods increases by that same proportion — in other words, the cylinder pressure increases by that amount. This increases the stress on the connecting rod, also by that same proportion. Result? Increasing the stress reduces the number of cycles that connecting rod can take before it fatigues to the point of failure. Depending on the material and design of the rod, and how close to the “knee” in the S-N curve they were to begin with, this could mean the rods only make it 80K miles, it could also mean the rods only make it 24K miles before you’d expect to see failures.

Who gets blamed when guys with blowers, nitrous, aftermarket tunes, etc., start popping the bottom ends out of their engines? Why, not the aftermarket! It’s Ford’s fault that somehow they didn’t design their engine to produce double its OEM rated output without modification.

Regarding the 2011+ Mustang and the TSB released Wednesday, and knowing what I know about the folks involved in the Coyote engine (there are SEVERAL licensed racers, ranging from SCCA and NASA types to NHRA/IHRA drag racers, involved with that engine and with the car), I’m comfortable saying there’s a reasonable margin baked into the engine — and you can see it in the Boss 302 and TracKey tunes above and beyond the base GT tune. But it’s REALLY easy for the aftermarket to exceed that margin — all it may take is a hot day, a “small” 150hp shot of nitrous, and a partially-clogged fuel filter to make it go boom.

This TSB isn’t really different from other statements issued to dealers on previous performance versions of the Mustang, or other models (PowerStroke diesels, for instance) — to be aware of aftermarket modifications that may have adversely affected the reliability of the system they’re being asked to warranty. A K&N filter element in the stock airbox or the Ford Racing cold-air kit (that’s standard on Boss and GT500 models)? No problem. PowerDyne blower? Problem, even though it’s “just a mod to the air intake”.

Anyway, even though I’m not in that business anymore, it’s frustrating that people who wouldn’t think twice about building the bottom end of their Windsor motor with quality parts to support the 15 psi of boost from the Vortech T-trim they intend to install will, at the same time, bitch about how it’s Ford’s fault they can’t double the HP of their PowerStroke tow vehicle without popping the head gasket or scattering the bottom end. And it sounds like some of those same folks are starting to do the same with Coyotes.

Folks, when you have something under warranty, and you choose to modify it for more performance, don’t expect the OEM to honor the warranty on the modified parts or systems (downstream systems included: if you mod the engine, don’t expect warranty relief on the clutch, transmission, or final drive). As I said at the beginning of the article, you pays your money and you takes your chances. And if you’re one of those who will try to pull one over on the OEM, understand that 1) you’re committing felony-level fraud, 2) the OEMs are able to figure out both hardware and software changes have happened, even if put back to stock before hauling the smoldering mass back to the dealer for the standard “I don’t know what happened, it just started running rough and making a knocking noise” claim.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:33 PM   #28
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Very articulate.

But really it all boils down to the following:

If your mod causes or contributes to the damage, your warranty won't cover the damage. If your mod does not cause or contribute to the damage, your warranty will cover the damage.

Anything else is smoke, mirrors, and double speak.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:35 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
This is the exact problem. Most members of internet forums do not know the difference between "voiding the warranty" and the "denial of warranty coverage". I can't tell you how many times I see someone say their warranty may be voided because of mods. Not only is that incorrect, but doing so is illegal. The manufacturer shouldn't be held liable for parts you install or any damage those parts do to the vehicle, and they aren't liable for those things. Everything else they are still on the hook for.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:07 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by ugotda7 View Post
Some good info....yeah, I know it's a different vehicle but it helps explain the issue.....and on and on and on......
it just started running rough and making a knocking noise” claim.
All that wasted cyber ink to say what it takes a few lines to say. If the mod causes the problem they aren't liable to fix it. If the mod didn't cause the problem they are responsible for fixing it. I don't know how many times this has to be said. A lift kit doesn't void the warranty on anything. It means they will not provide coverage for suspension problems under warranty. The radio is still covered. Why is that so hard grasp and put in simple terms?

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