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Old 09-06-2011, 03:16 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Hey, no need to be an ass. If you don't have an answer to the question-no need to post.
All post here and most from other CAI threads concur that they are worthless. It has been shown no different in this thread. Stating the obvious. Now..being an "ass" there is a difference!

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Old 09-06-2011, 03:19 PM   #62
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And with that..this thread is useless from now on. CAI are useless..carry on.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:23 PM   #63
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I think most people post "CAI's are worthless" cause that's what they see on the internet. No first hand knowledge.
I've met a few guys that have them and are happy (but don't listen to me because I am a guy on the internet)
If your ready to take a $300 risk, go for it
Find out for yourself.

Mention the "SprintBooster" that apparently is worthless also. Best $300 I've spent. Thing works awesome, took it out when I brought the jeep to the dealership, could not wait to plug back in.

Your jeep.... Your money.... Do what you want
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:26 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by ESP123

All post here and most from other CAI threads concur that they are worthless. It has been shown no different in this thread. Stating the obvious. Now..being an "ass" there is a difference!
I took it like you responded to my post.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:27 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
I think most people post "CAI's are worthless" cause that's what they see on the internet. No first hand knowledge.
I've met a few guys that have them and are happy (but don't listen to me because I am a guy on the internet)
If your ready to take a $300 risk, go for it
Find out for yourself.

Mention the "SprintBooster" that apparently is worthless also. Best $300 I've spent. Thing works awesome, took it out when I brought the jeep to the dealership, could not wait to plug back in.

Your jeep.... Your money.... Do what you want
Agreed but I've yet to "know" anyone personally that has them on their rigs testifying to it being money well spent. Most say they are useless. That's the only first hand knowledge I have.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:28 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by MMR

Does anyone have any experence with AEMs intakes and how they perform off road and how they respond to anything from dust to snow ?
Prob not here... But Ripp uses them.
I would go AEM before K&N.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:31 PM   #67
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The cost is the only thing holding me back.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:36 PM   #68
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I have an AEM Brute Force intake and like it. Sounds nice. Butt dyno determined there was a modest improvement--I wrote a thread on it a while back.

That said, is it $279 worth of improvement? No. But it was a gift and I'm happy with it. If it was my cash . . . I'd say maybe $100.

Rusty's sells a nice intake tube set up for well under $100 that you could then pair up with an AEM dry filter off of Amazon (Rusty's only sells K&Ns for the filter). If I for some reason had to choose between going back to my stock intake for free (it's in my shed) or doing the Rusty's/Amazon set up for $100 or so, I'd go with the latter. JMO.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:39 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by MTH
I have an AEM Brute Force intake and like it. Sounds nice. Butt dyno determined there was a modest improvement--I wrote a thread on it a while back.

That said, is it $279 worth of improvement? No. But it was a gift and I'm happy with it. If it was my cash . . . I'd say maybe $100.

Rusty's sells a nice intake tube set up for well under $100 that you could then pair up with an AEM dry filter off of Amazon (Rusty's only sells K&Ns for the filter). If I for some reason had to choose between going back to my stock intake for free (it's in my shed) or doing the Rusty's/Amazon set up for $100 or so, I'd go with the latter. JMO.
Huh-- I did read your write up.

That was paired with the VTB also or no?
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:40 PM   #70
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Huh-- I did read your write up.

That was paired with the VTB also or no?
Yes, but much later. After the write-up.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:43 PM   #71
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Rusty's intake tube: Rustys Offroad: Airtube - JK ('07+) Wrangler

AEM Dry filter off Amazon: Amazon.com: AEM 21-2109DK AEM DryFlow Air Filter: Automotive

Total: Under $100.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:44 PM   #72
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I know many here recommend not doing a cold air intake if the jeep will go off road, is this only due to water getting sucked in if you go through water/streams etc or is it due to dirt/dust in general? Someone mentioned previously only if using a snorkel is cai ok which is what makes me wonder if it's just the water issue that causes folks to recommend against it?
I like K&N filters...yes. But many CAI systems don't do a whole lot, and you're spending a few hundred bucks for them. I've bought many CAIs for cars, but the overall difference that they provided was very very minimal. I've installed Dinan on my M3, Vortex on my Vette, and Lingenfelter on my T/As. I say just swap out the filter with a BMC or KN.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:47 PM   #73
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I think most people post "CAI's are worthless" cause that's what they see on the internet. No first hand knowledge.
I've met a few guys that have them and are happy (but don't listen to me because I am a guy on the internet)
If your ready to take a $300 risk, go for it
Find out for yourself.
I have installed them on dozens of different cars and done before and after dyno testing on most of them. Maybe 10% of them showed anything at all, and maybe 10% of those showed enough to matter.

It isn't hard to tell if there is any reason to buy one. Install a vacuum gauge to a manifold source. Run it to redline a few times and see if the gauge reads any vacuum at WOT. If it doesn't there isn't enough there to make the purchase worthwhile and probably nothing at all. If there is a vacuum, find some way to take a vacuum reading between the filter and TB. If there is a vacuum there, a high flow filter will probably be worth something. If not, the TB is the problem.

If you are actually on the dyno, just pop the filter out and make a pull. Watch both the power output and the air/fuel ratio. If there is no change in power, but the a/f goes up there is some power there to make if the computer ever adds some fuel which it may do on its own after it gets used to the change in airflow.

EDIT: Beware the butt dyno. A CAI will make the engine noise more pronounced which almost anyone will interpret as more power. It isn't. Same with exhaust.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:51 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by MTH
Awesome

Just wondering- without the "heat shield" like some of the kits do, If if would really make a difference.

One thing I've noticed is the JK's engine bay is hotter than any other vehicle I've felt. M
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:53 PM   #75
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Prob not here... But Ripp uses them.
I would go AEM before K&N.
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The cost is the only thing holding me back.
The thing is that a friend of mine works as an engineer in a company in sweden that makes heavy duty industrial ventilation systems, and they have a machine there that can measure air flow, restrictions etc. and a few years back him, I and another friend decided to test different intake systems and airfilters to see what they actually did, so we took our cars (my mustang, a subaru forrester and a golf) and bought different CAIs and drop in filters for them, and tested them on that machine. We litterly drove to his work, and took the intake box and intake tube out of our cars at his work and hooked it up to that machine to test them. We tried every thing from a cheap brand to the more expensive ones (except for a few of them, we bought most of them used, otherwise it would have been too costly, but theones where the airfilter was in a crappy condition, we bought a replacement filter from the same brand) both CAIs and drop-ins.

Anyway, here when it comes to the airfilter itself, K&N was the only one that performed better than the rest of the brands we tested (like I said earlier). And I have been driving with a drop in filter from K&N for two years now, through salty winters and dry summers, without any problems other than the oil from the filter getting in the MAF...just saying.

So I would very much like to look into AEMs intakes if they are better than K&Ns.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:58 PM   #76
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There's Oilwell again, with all of his "science" and "logic."

Look, dammit, everybody knows the proper way to assess the improvement offered by any modification is to spend your own hard earned money, take an hour to fidget around with it in your driveway (perferably in hostile weather conditions and busting your knuckles at least once), become psychologically committed to its performing for you, drive around with it for awhile mentally noting the "differences," extoll its virtues on the internet, and then passionately defend it against detractors during the inevitable excoriation that follows.

Pssh . . . "dynos" and "vaccums" . . . nonsense.
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Old 09-06-2011, 03:58 PM   #77
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Beware the butt dyno.
This must be in my sig. Priceless...
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:01 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by oilwell1415

I have installed them on dozens of different cars and done before and after dyno testing on most of them. Maybe 10% of them showed anything at all, and maybe 10% of those showed enough to matter.

It isn't hard to tell if there is any reason to buy one. Install a vacuum gauge to a manifold source. Run it to redline a few times and see if the gauge reads any vacuum at WOT. If it doesn't there isn't enough there to make the purchase worthwhile and probably nothing at all. If there is a vacuum, find some way to take a vacuum reading between the filter and TB. If there is a vacuum there, a high flow filter will probably be worth something. If not, the TB is the problem.

If you are actually on the dyno, just pop the filter out and make a pull. Watch both the power output and the air/fuel ratio. If there is no change in power, but the a/f goes up there is some power there to make if the computer ever adds some fuel which it may do on its own after it gets used to the change in airflow.

EDIT: Beware the butt dyno. A CAI will make the engine noise more pronounced which almost anyone will interpret as more power. It isn't. Same with exhaust.
Is that what "but dyno" means? Lol

Now my question simplified (I hope)
The engine runs better in cooler temps correct?
I feel the diff when driving in the morning (cool) and after work when it's 90 out.
It does seem the engine runs smoother and a little more peppier.
Wouldn't a CAI at least give similar results ?
Now I would not pay $300 but for $100 even a min gain I'd be happy.
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:05 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by MTH
There's Oilwell again, with all of his "science" and "logic."

Look, dammit, everybody knows the proper way to assess the improvement offered by any modification is to spend your own hard earned money, take an hour to fidget around with it in your driveway (perferably in hostile weather conditions and busting your knuckles at least once), become psychologically committed to its performing for you, drive around with it for awhile mentally noting the "differences," extoll its virtues on the internet, and then passionately defend it against detractors during the inevitable excoriation that follows.

Pssh . . . "dynos" and "vaccums" . . . nonsense.
the ending paragraph haha
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:23 PM   #80
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There's Oilwell again, with all of his "science" and "logic."

Look, dammit, everybody knows the proper way to assess the improvement offered by any modification is to spend your own hard earned money, take an hour to fidget around with it in your driveway (perferably in hostile weather conditions and busting your knuckles at least once), become psychologically committed to its performing for you, drive around with it for awhile mentally noting the "differences," extoll its virtues on the internet, and then passionately defend it against detractors during the inevitable excoriation that follows.

Pssh . . . "dynos" and "vaccums" . . . nonsense.
LOL. To be honest, I hate doing dyno testing because what really matters is what you see on the trail, racetrack, street, etc. The problem is that gains on modern vehicles come in such small quantities that you wouldn't find them any other way. Used to be you'd install a CAI, catback and twist the distributor and be up 30 hp on a 200 hp car. You can feel that. Now days you install 5 different mods worth 5 hp each on a car with 350 hp. You have to be real good to feel that (if you can feel it at all), and it may or may not show up on the track, trail, etc. because the weather can change the output more than that. If you're tuning a carb and distributor it's the same way. You're looking for 2 or 3 hp at a time and you won't see it anywhere but the dyno. I once did a dyno tune for a guy with a 69 Cougar that he had been trying to get the most out of by tuning at the track for almost two years. Jets, timing, air filters, carb spacers, you name it. He gained about 3 or 4 tenths over his first night out. After dragging him kicking and screaming to the dyno for three hours we found almost 70 hp and well over a second off his 1/4 mile time. He told me it was the best $500 he ever spend on his car.

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Is that what "but dyno" means? Lol
Pretty much. I have noticed that most people get exactly what they want out of any mod they spend money on. They even change their driving style without knowing it to self fulfil the prophecy. If they drive hell bent all the time and install something to get better mileage they suddenly drive slower after the install. Everyone blames gears and exhaust for killing their mileage. It's really their heavy right foot wanting to hear the exhaust and feel the snappy response of the new gears that kills their mileage.

Quote:
Now my question simplified (I hope)
The engine runs better in cooler temps correct?
I feel the diff when driving in the morning (cool) and after work when it's 90 out.
It does seem the engine runs smoother and a little more peppier.
Wouldn't a CAI at least give similar results ?
Now I would not pay $300 but for $100 even a min gain I'd be happy.
Air that is more dense makes more power. You can make it more dense by either cooling it down or increasing the pressure. The best place to get cooler air is anywhere except the engine compartment. Most factory systems do a pretty good job of this by having a duct that pull air from a fender or at least from a far corner of the engine compartment. The typical CAI system actually gets the hottest air available and sends it to the engine. If you want to help your power output, get a piece of dryer duct from the hardware store and find a way to route if from a source of cool air to your airbox. That will help more than a CAI and will cost probably $10.
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:27 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by oilwell1415

LOL. To be honest, I hate doing dyno testing because what really matters is what you see on the trail, racetrack, street, etc. The problem is that gains on modern vehicles come in such small quantities that you wouldn't find them any other way. Used to be you'd install a CAI, catback and twist the distributor and be up 30 hp on a 200 hp car. You can feel that. Now days you install 5 different mods worth 5 hp each on a car with 350 hp. You have to be real good to feel that (if you can feel it at all), and it may or may not show up on the track, trail, etc. because the weather can change the output more than that. If you're tuning a carb and distributor it's the same way. You're looking for 2 or 3 hp at a time and you won't see it anywhere but the dyno. I once did a dyno tune for a guy with a 69 Cougar that he had been trying to get the most out of by tuning at the track for almost two years. Jets, timing, air filters, carb spacers, you name it. He gained about 3 or 4 tenths over his first night out. After dragging him kicking and screaming to the dyno for three hours we found almost 70 hp and well over a second off his 1/4 mile time. He told me it was the best $500 he ever spend on his car.

Pretty much. I have noticed that most people get exactly what they want out of any mod they spend money on. They even change their driving style without knowing it to self fulfil the prophecy. If they drive hell bent all the time and install something to get better mileage they suddenly drive slower after the install. Everyone blames gears and exhaust for killing their mileage. It's really their heavy right foot wanting to hear the exhaust and feel the snappy response of the new gears that kills their mileage.

Air that is more dense makes more power. You can make it more dense by either cooling it down or increasing the pressure. The best place to get cooler air is anywhere except the engine compartment. Most factory systems do a pretty good job of this by having a duct that pull air from a fender or at least from a far corner of the engine compartment. The typical CAI system actually gets the hottest air available and sends it to the engine. If you want to help your power output, get a piece of dryer duct from the hardware store and find a way to route if from a source of cool air to your airbox. That will help more than a CAI and will cost probably $10.
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:29 PM   #82
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Air that is more dense makes more power. You can make it more dense by either cooling it down or increasing the pressure. The best place to get cooler air is anywhere except the engine compartment. Most factory systems do a pretty good job of this by having a duct that pull air from a fender or at least from a far corner of the engine compartment. The typical CAI system actually gets the hottest air available and sends it to the engine. If you want to help your power output, get a piece of dryer duct from the hardware store and find a way to route if from a source of cool air to your airbox. That will help more than a CAI and will cost probably $10.
The air that a CAI pulls from the fender is not cool enough to make any difference, the gains you get from a CAI is from the larger tubing and more breathable airfilter.
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:34 PM   #83
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The air that a CAI pulls from the fender is not cool enough to make any difference, the gains you get from a CAI is from the larger tubing and more breathable airfilter.
Which is offset by more dirt entering your engine.
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:38 PM   #84
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Which is offset by more dirt entering your engine.
Lovely how CAIs work <3
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:40 PM   #85
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The air that a CAI pulls from the fender is not cool enough to make any difference, the gains you get from a CAI is from the larger tubing and more breathable airfilter.
Do you honestly think that pulling 100 degree air from the fender won't make any more power than pulling 250 degree air from underhood? I've got a bridge I'd like to sell, are you in the market by chance?
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:43 PM   #86
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Do you honestly think that pulling 100 degree air from the fender won't make any more power than pulling 250 degree air from underhood? I've got a bridge I'd like to sell, are you in the market by chance?
Prove it ! ...maybe you will see 1 HP difference or so, but that is about it.
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:47 PM   #87
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bout to go pick up some dryer tubing
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Old 09-06-2011, 05:02 PM   #88
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Prove it ! ...maybe you will see 1 HP difference or so, but that is about it.
You are clueless. You typically gain 1% more power for every 10 degrees you can drop the inlet temperature. This has already been proven time and time again. There is no reason to do so again. Just for giggles, here are some numbers from my truck. It is supercharged, so the weather has a little more influence on it than a NA engine.

Best time in my truck when it's 100 degrees outside: 14.15 @ 98.5 mph.
Best time when it's 50 degree outside: 13.18 @ 105.1

Truck weighs 4960 lbs with me in it and 3/8 tank of gas. You do the math on what cooler air does for the power output.
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Old 09-06-2011, 05:05 PM   #89
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Anekdotes are not the same as evidence
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Old 09-06-2011, 05:14 PM   #90
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Not to metion; all you stated is (like Kjeeper 10 said) that a vehicle runs better at cold tempertures and nothing about that the gains you see in a CAI is due to the air you draw from the fender and not due to the larger tubing and more breatherable airfilter.

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