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Old 09-21-2010, 02:25 PM   #1
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Cold Air Intake (k&n kit)...reason not to?

I know many here recommend not doing a cold air intake if the jeep will go off road, is this only due to water getting sucked in if you go through water/streams etc or is it due to dirt/dust in general? Someone mentioned previously only if using a snorkel is cai ok which is what makes me wonder if it's just the water issue that causes folks to recommend against it?

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Old 09-21-2010, 02:30 PM   #2
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Thats the main reason !!


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Originally Posted by sdgmcdon View Post
I know many here recommend not doing a cold air intake if the jeep will go off road, is this only due to water getting sucked in if you go through water/streams etc or is it due to dirt/dust in general? Someone mentioned previously only if using a snorkel is cai ok which is what makes me wonder if it's just the water issue that causes folks to recommend against it?
The other reason is--it's a waste of money, with the 3.8L V6, there will be no appreciable increase in HP/mileage and with all the "NEGATIVES", why even consider one ???

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Old 09-21-2010, 02:34 PM   #3
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I run a CAI (AIRAID) and use my jeep extensively off road. Why they advise against CAI,headers etc I don't know. The only thing you have to watch out for is the mentioned deep water crossings. The way I look at it is if I'm up to my headlights in water there is more to worry about. The reason I run a CAI is that the stock airbox in my jeep was warped and would not seal properly, the cost was cheaper to replace it with a aftermarket intake than to order a stock one from the stealership and have to wait 3+ weeks to get it.
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:36 PM   #4
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The other reason is--it's a waste of money, with the 3.8L V6, there will be no appreciable increase in HP/mileage and with all the "NEGATIVES", why even consider one ???
I had one on my 2000 Cherokee, made a significant difference in low end power, sound (throaty) and mpg...was figuring the same for the wrangler or similar as HP ratings are almost the same, actually better I think, then they were for the kit on the Cherokee.

I will be wheeling this jeep (2011 rubicon 4 door) but not crazy stuff, more amateur stuff as I am an amateur...over the years though I do plan on doing mods, upgrading this or that as I learn and eventually doing some more serious wheeling at which time I figure I could snorkel it then.

Hmmm...
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by jeepjones View Post
I run a CAI (AIRAID) and use my jeep extensively off road
Did you notice a difference in power / mpg?

Also, that's something I need to look into as well is air raid vs k&n...they look to be about the same device, similar price etc...probably stick with the k&n I know unless there's some other benefit to air raid i'm not aware of?
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:52 PM   #6
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You may want to look into the one that Banks has come out with, it is supposed to brig in more CFM's than all of it's competitors. Ebay has them for around 280...
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:58 PM   #7
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You don't seem to listen


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Originally Posted by sdgmcdon View Post
I had one on my 2000 Cherokee, made a significant difference in low end power, sound (throaty) and mpg...was figuring the same for the wrangler or similar as HP ratings are almost the same, actually better I think, then they were for the kit on the Cherokee.

I will be wheeling this jeep (2011 rubicon 4 door) but not crazy stuff, more amateur stuff as I am an amateur...over the years though I do plan on doing mods, upgrading this or that as I learn and eventually doing some more serious wheeling at which time I figure I could snorkel it then.

Hmmm...
This is not the 10 yr old Cherokee, this is the Chrysler 3.8L COMPUTER controlled V6, the only appreciable increase in HP--NOW--is with the RIPP SC and it is the only one that has the JK ECM under control---nothing else works-yet

Avenger is getting close

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Old 09-21-2010, 03:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
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I had one on my 2000 Cherokee, made a significant difference in low end power, sound (throaty) and mpg...
The butt dyno is an amazing piece of equipment.
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:11 PM   #9
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Jimbox I listen just fine, you didn't mention anything about the differences being computer controlled vs not computer controlled until you accused me of not listening...sorry, can't read minds...I've heard LOTS of people say cai's make no difference, you'll never notice the power increase etc and from my experience with the Cherokee that wasn't accurate and for all I knew you were just another one of those that feels that way...but now that you mention computer controlled being a difference that makes it irrelevant, thank you and I will look into that.
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YELO-JKT View Post
You may want to look into the one that Banks has come out with, it is supposed to brig in more CFM's than all of it's competitors. Ebay has them for around 280...
Thanks, I will!
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:14 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
The butt dyno is an amazing piece of equipment.
Indeed it is...I never dyno'd my Cherokee before or after and maybe there was no increase, only a change in behavior, but BOY WHAT A CHANGE!
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Old 09-21-2010, 03:22 PM   #12
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Heh Heh, I'm sorry, didn't mean to infer that-


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Originally Posted by sdgmcdon View Post
Jimbox I listen just fine, you didn't mention anything about the differences being computer controlled vs not computer controlled until you accused me of not listening...sorry, can't read minds...I've heard LOTS of people say cai's make no difference, you'll never notice the power increase etc and from my experience with the Cherokee that wasn't accurate and for all I knew you were just another one of those that feels that way...but now that you mention computer controlled being a difference that makes it irrelevant, thank you and I will look into that.
I know that the 2000 Cherokee also had an ECM, my point is that the 07/11 3.8L JK V6 is an animal that is just about tweaked to it's max--"AS IS" and the only real way to see measurable increases in HP/mileage is with the SuperCharger

Even increasing the intake/exhaust airflow (without SC)doesn't work with this engine, I think your money could take other avenues and benefit you better !!

It's your jeep and you'll get a lot of diff. opinions on the pros/cons ofit !!

Have a goodun !

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Old 09-21-2010, 03:48 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by sdgmcdon View Post
I know many here recommend not doing a cold air intake if the jeep will go off road, is this only due to water getting sucked in if you go through water/streams etc or is it due to dirt/dust in general? Someone mentioned previously only if using a snorkel is cai ok which is what makes me wonder if it's just the water issue that causes folks to recommend against it?
Although I'm not a scientist, I'm the administrator of a GC/LC/Mass Spectrometer training lab and work alongside lab geeks from all industries and from all over the world. That includes the petro-chemical industry.
Don't listen to heresay of forum intellects & personalities; listen to experts in the field. A cai is something that will do real damage to your engine.

Call up Blackstone Labs and solicit their opinion. Ask them how much more silicon-based particulate is usually introduced to the combustion mixture by using the average K&N (or similar) system.

If that doesn't convince you, send your pre-install oil to their labs for analysis. Then send your oil in after running a K&N.
Then get back to me.

It's an extremely silly thing to put on a Jeep.
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Old 09-21-2010, 04:57 PM   #14
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You have that saved somewhere for cut and past don't you?
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Old 09-21-2010, 08:46 PM   #15
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Hilldweller, thanks for the info; I will look into it.
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Old 09-22-2010, 04:57 AM   #16
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You have that saved somewhere for cut and past don't you?
I've commented on it so many times that I should by now but I don't.

There was a thread about CAIs that I hoped would become a sticky. I can understand why the mods don't want to sticky a post that flies in the face of what some of our vendors sell though.

But some of our vendors sell products that are downright illegal; I don't get that one. I smell liability issues for chat forums in the future related to those types of things.
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Old 09-22-2010, 09:42 AM   #17
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It's only illegal in a few states and only if you live in them states. I put a air aid c.a.i. on my 10 unlimented 3.8. The first tank came out at 19.8 mpg. The 3 tanks before it was 15.1, 17.2, and 16.4. The airaid is better them k n FOR JEEPS because
it has a 5 th layer that the k n don't. It don't seem faster. it is louder but the mpg is better. any questions? 979-943-3574
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:27 PM   #18
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So just a quick question for those saying not to do CAI as it will allow crap into the engine and eventually ruin it...Why then did my Cherokee run fine (better than fine, perfect) for 100k+ miles after putting the K&N on it??? I mean NO problems and the K&N made a huge difference??? If they are that destructive shouldn't I have run into a problem? Also, that was in Seattle, quite rainy and wet most of the time.

Sorry, not trying to be difficult.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:34 PM   #19
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So just a quick question for those saying not to do CAI as it will allow crap into the engine and eventually ruin it...Why then did my Cherokee run fine (better than fine, perfect) for 100k+ miles after putting the K&N on it??? I mean NO problems and the K&N made a huge difference??? If they are that destructive shouldn't I have run into a problem? Also, that was in Seattle, quite rainy and wet most of the time.

Sorry, not trying to be difficult.
Did you ever send your oil in for analysis?
Did you do a top end rebuild and look at the cylinder walls?

I'm trying to offer science and recommending against anecdotes. The JK doesn't need any more air going in to run better; it already has more than enough.
And it certainly doesn't need more unfiltered airborne particulates...
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:48 PM   #20
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Hilldweller is right.
It's simple science. To allow more air to pass through the filter, it also has to allow more dirt. You very well may never have any trouble from a CAI, but in my mind they're not worth the small gains in power they provide to have a dirty engine.
In my particular case, I had one on my 05 Magnum R/T (had a CAI on several vehicles, actually) and I started reading about the amount of dirt the K&N filter lets past. Someone recommended that I pull the filter out and feel the inside of the inlet tube and report back. What I felt was a gritty, oily film coating everything, all the way up to the throttle blade. This was a brand new K&N CAI with less than 10,000 miles on it.
I also ran them on my old 5.0 Mustangs and on more than one occasion had to remove the mass air sensor and carefully clean the oily film off of it to prevent idle issues. Again, factory new K&N filters. I never cleaned and re-oiled them, I'd just buy a new one when the old one got dirty looking.

So, it's up to you to weigh the data provided and decide for yourself. They're not worth it IMHO, but you may think they are. Neither one of us would be wrong. Again, you may not ever have a single issue. Then again, you might.

My recommendation: Replace the inlet tube with a nice, smooth unit from a CAI and use a quality paper filter.

Some good info:
Air Filter Flow Testing for Napa Gold, Amsoil two stage foam, Jackson Racing foam, Baldwin, Mazda and K&N
Filtration Testing for Amsoil, K&N, Napa, Jackson Racing, Baldwin, and Mazda air filters on a Miata
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Old 09-22-2010, 02:15 PM   #21
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I have a little tiny itsy bitsy fan that I tapped under my hood to blow on my Jeep's engine. I get 40 MPG and 750 foot pounds of torque now because of its awesomeness.
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Old 09-22-2010, 02:19 PM   #22
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Old 09-29-2010, 02:51 AM   #23
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That's basically the reason why it's not recommend to do cold air intake when you go off road.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:03 PM   #24
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They should rename them Hot air intakes. No way they are letting any more cold air in than a stock intake.

Huge waste of money.

Best mod for the JK performance wise is a Superchips Flaspaq.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:30 PM   #25
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For the money, it's an AEV Procal module


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They should rename them Hot air intakes. No way they are letting any more cold air in than a stock intake.

Huge waste of money.

Best mod for the JK performance wise is a Superchips Flaspaq.
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:35 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdgmcdon View Post
I know many here recommend not doing a cold air intake if the jeep will go off road, is this only due to water getting sucked in if you go through water/streams etc or is it due to dirt/dust in general? Someone mentioned previously only if using a snorkel is cai ok which is what makes me wonder if it's just the water issue that causes folks to recommend against it?

I say get it, I have one coming AFE stage 2 for 227.00 from 4WD,com, free shipping. I do not playing in water much and if i do its slow, any thing is better than stock IMOP, After I get my cai on I will test it out, drive it hard and get back to you. I drive a two door 6 speed with 3.21 gears. Another thing, as the CAI gets used the more dirty it get the better the filtering they have. If you want one get it, most ARE 50 state legal, but some are not. This is just what I think and I dont care what others say, its what I am doing and I know they work as friends of mine have had them on their jeep of 30,000 miles to 60,000 and never have had any thing go wrong. And they love them.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:38 PM   #27
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TJ Intake

I am new to the forum so I'm Not sure if this thread is too old to jump in on. There was a lot of discussion about air intakes for the JK but it is a worthwhile modifcation for the TJ 4.0 I6? I was considering a K & N but I do a considerable amount of 4 wheeling, more rocks than mud. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 09-05-2011, 11:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RojoTJ03
I am new to the forum so I'm Not sure if this thread is too old to jump in on. There was a lot of discussion about air intakes for the JK but it is a worthwhile modifcation for the TJ 4.0 I6? I was considering a K & N but I do a considerable amount of 4 wheeling, more rocks than mud. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
Are you trying to grab advice from us Jk folks, cause you posted in a Jk forum?

Anyhow- from info I've gathered over in the Tj section, the answer is also NO
A cold air intake gets a bad rap for the most part but K&N filters get it even worse. From what I hear, stay away-there's better choices. Google K&N or CAI add wrangler forum to your search title and see what you come up with, some long and good drawn out battles
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Old 09-06-2011, 12:22 AM   #29
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I'm new here, but folks, listen to Hildweller! He speaks the absolute truth. I was a Master BMW Tech for 20 years and owned a shop specializing in performance upgrades. I know CAI systems and they are bad news! Most filter little more from the incoming air than smalls stones and birds. They will shorten your engine life. As Hildy mentioned--you can prove that to yourself by scientific oil analysis, worn engine parts and premature oil consumption. Please, just stay away from them--in all vehicles. Now that is not to say that if you can find a way to direct cooler "DRY" air into a vehicles intake, then go for it. But do not change your stock air filter for a K&N or other aftermarket washable/re-oil type filter---they are complete garbage. The HP increase numbers these companies post and claim makes steam erupt from my ears---it's total 100% crap!
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Old 09-06-2011, 12:26 AM   #30
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The thing about the way the computer runs the TB these days makes CAI sort of useless and since CAI lets in a lot more dirt then there really isn't a real benefit to them. The computer will compensate for any addition air flow to maintain a precise air/fuel ratio thus negating the CAI's benefits. And any CAI that claims it will increase fuel mileage is absolutely lying. But because the box is open you can hear the air flow better so it gives you a great butt power like a loader exhaust.

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