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Old 06-14-2014, 09:13 PM   #1
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Comparison of off road performance between sport and rubicon

Hi guys, I just have confusion of off road performance between sport and rubicon

I usually go off road with pretty rugged or muddy surface but not rock crawling

Anyone can give me some idea?

Cheers

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Old 06-15-2014, 06:50 AM   #2
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Uh oh... This is gonna get heated lol. I honestly think you should watch some videos on YouTube of sports and rubicons to see how they perform. The biggest difference in a Rubicon is the front Dana 44 and lockers front and rear and the transfer case which, can be an advantage or by the sounds of it in your case possibly a hindrance

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Old 06-15-2014, 07:44 AM   #3
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The sport and sahara models are 4 wheel drive with a true 4Lo and come with a rear Dana 44 axle, front Dana 30 axle, 3.21 or 3.73 gearing, and street tires.

The rubicon is also 4 wheel drive with 4Lo and rear Dana 44 axle. All Jeeps have the similar skid protection (depending on options/model) and ground clearance as well as water fording ability. Additionally, the rubicon comes standard with a steeper transfer case (for better 4Lo), 3.73 or 4.10 gearing, a front Dana 44, electronic sway bar disconnects, All-Terrain tires, and front and rear lockers.

I wheel a stock, unlocked Jeep with 3.21 gearing and rear LSD. All Wrangler models are extremely capable vehicles right out the door, and you should have no difficulty driving any of them over extreme terrain.

The most obvious Rubicon advantage is when slow driving (crawling) is required. The Rubi will continue a deliberate forward motion with little or no gas (due to transfer case and gears). If you want this, you need to get a Rubicon, or pay a ton of money later.

Second, is when the axles are off camber. The sway bar disconnects allow for greater contact surface as your Jeep is moving over uneven surfaces such as boulders. All Jeeps can have their sway bars disconnected with minimal effort, or for ~ $125.00, quick disconnects can be purchased to simplify the manual process.

Third is the front and rear lockers. These offer a great advantage driving in extreme examples of loose sand, dirt, and certain types of mud, especially on an incline. Also, when climbing over ledges and rocks, the lockers greatly reduce the effort required, and because you can conquer the obstacle at a slow pace, there is less likelihood of a hard bounce that can cause some damage to the fenders or undercarriage. A non-Rubi can compensate for a lack of locker by choosing a good line in most situations. There are just some conditions where a locker (or two) will get you there and an open-diff will not. I haven't encountered them, but I know they exist. Lockers can be installed for ~$1000.00 each.

The biggest advantage one can have for off-road capabilities is tires! Replacing the stock tires on any Jeep with an MT will afford much greater capabilities. Adding height will also afford greater clearance. Again, because the Rubi has the steeper gears, it has the advantage here of being able to go bigger with less loss in performance. This is important on newer Jeeps once above 33" and up to 35". At 33 and below, the gearing is probably fine on any of them (opinions vary), but above 35" you will probably want to regear steeper than even the Rubi has stock. Regearing will cost you ~ $1500. Still, the Rubi has a front Dana 44, so you could go to 37" tires w/o changing the front axle.

Also, the Rubicon comes with some nice stickers.
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:52 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by cornfedksboy View Post
All Jeeps have the similar skid protection (depending on options/model) and ground clearance as well as water fording ability.
Actually, the Sahara has the highest ground clearance of any stock Wrangler, according to the specs on the official Jeep website.
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:57 AM   #5
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....

Also, the rubicon comes with some nice stickers.
sold!!!
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:17 AM   #6
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Actually, the Sahara has the highest ground clearance of any stock Wrangler, according to the specs on the official Jeep website.
The 0.1 inch difference is either a typo, rounding error, or due to the Dana 44 front. They are by all intents and purposes identical as noted by the identical front and rear overhang and break-over angles.
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:24 AM   #7
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The Rubicon is more capable. It's tough to quantify, perhaps 20-30% more capable. I think for most people, it's overkill. People that need a Rubicon aren't asking whether they need one, they know they need one. They off-road in a realm where teetering with only 2-wheels on the ground is common, body panels gets bent, suspension components sheer, driveline components twist apart... etc. They exceed the capability of the standard Jeep.

I've owned vehicles that would follow a Rubicon fine, mostly older ones that already had a lot of miles and many battle scars. But at $25,000, I got a cheap Wrangler. Frankly, I still feel it's too expensive to thrash on Rubicon level trails.


Here's an example of stock Wrangler capability: Poison Spider Mesa, Moab 2 of 4 - YouTube

It's my old 2005 TJ at Moab. It had the pip-squeak 2.4l engine and the 6-speed manual trans, stock other than a BB lift and 31" tires. Half the Wranglers on the road have never done any real off-roading, including many Rubicons.

The video above isn't extreme (though the terrain is tougher than the video reflects), but it shows the extent of what I'm willing to do off-road. I'm an experienced off road driver, I know my limitations, and I stay within them. I ran the Poison Spider Mesa trail as a solo rig, having never seen it before. A standard Wrangler fulfills my needs and expectations. It's not worth the $10K Rubicon package expense when I won't use it. I have a dirtbike and mountainbike for thrashing.

If I wanted to thrash a Jeep, I could buy a $3300 YJ, spend $300 an axle on lock-rite lockers, $100 on sway bar disconnects, and have a formidable Rubicon-forgery for only $4000 total. I wouldn't feel guilty beating on it.

The Rubicon is a nice package, Jeep kicks ass for offering something so cool, and it's worth the $$$ to a few. However, I think that if it didn't include the sticker, most people wouldn't be interested.


This is pretty typical of what I see: http://youtu.be/vqidgVw4Xxo

Same trail as I did above, in fact it's the same obstacle at 2:36. There is a middle aged lady in a Rubicon (the only Rubicon). It's evident she's a novice. It's great she's out there, I applaud it, but I don't think she'd have a chance without a spotter. The Rubicon is a bit of a "borrowed ladder" to make up for a lack of experience. I get more satisfaction from jumping out, surveying the terrain, visualizing my line, and executing it myself... without some schmo standing up ahead telling me "turn driver".

I think it's preferable to learn proper technique, versus buying capability to make up for a lack of it.
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:40 AM   #8
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Lockers sold me on the Rubicon. I was ditch driving on the side of a dirt road once, and had both my right tires start just spinning....

Lockers got me going again.
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Old 06-15-2014, 10:27 AM   #9
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Lockers sold me on the Rubicon. I was ditch driving on the side of a dirt road once, and had both my right tires start just spinning....

Lockers got me going again.
The bld system on jks will prevent this...
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Old 06-15-2014, 12:41 PM   #10
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Edit, I also wanted to add that a Rubicon is more capable (I dunno 20-30%), but the driver is a much bigger factor in the equation.

Th right guy on a unicycle can beat me on my mountainbike.
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Old 06-15-2014, 12:51 PM   #11
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There's nothing a Rubicon has that you can't put in a Sport. Manual sway bar disconnects are cheap. Lockers and gears will set you back a few grand. A new transfer case to get the 4:1 ratio is probably a few grand. But it can be done.

But like cornfed alluded to, don't confuse the Sport with a Subaru or Honda AWD typed of rig. It's got real four wheel drive and it's a very capable vehicle. I'd suspect most of us will never use the Rubicon lockers or TC to their full potential. I bought mine because I wanted it and it had some other features I liked, not because I needed it. I've never had disconnects or lockers until now and I managed quiet well.

You get a Sport with 3.73s, put a locker in the rear, disconnects and you can go just about anywhere a Rubicon can go for less money. Even stock, a good driver in a Sport can do more than a novice in a Rubicon. Driver skill will get you a long way. Buy what you want. If you want a nice rig out of the gate, buy the Rubicon. If you like building your own, get a Sport and make it your own.
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Old 06-15-2014, 01:46 PM   #12
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The single most important nut in a Wrangler is the one behind the steering wheel-not the fancy mechanicals.

You can crawl rocks without the Rubi transfer case - and you can get all kinds of stuck and sideways with the Rubi transfer case. Lockers, good tires, correct tire pressure for the terrain, and clearance (and good skid plates lol!) are the most help. So the issue with the Sport becomes two-fold: whether locking a Dana 30 is a good idea up front, and just how much clearance (tire size) you can put on the 30.

But make no mistake-most folks will never even utilize the full capabilities of any Wrangler- period.
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Old 06-15-2014, 03:48 PM   #13
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I've always been in the mind set, with off-roading, that it's the driver and not the rig. Mostly. Also a big fan of "right tool-right job". It's why I like Jeeps. I used to off-road a lot and I've gone through a few vehicles, Land Cruisers, etc. and my jeeps were able to do better, stock, than those others modded.

That being said...

I did buy a new Rubi in 2012. I love it. I had more money than time and I always wanted one. C'mon, it's a great looking sticker! I love how it handles in 4lo and I don't feel the need yet to lift it or anything else. I'm still going to because, y'know. Toys! But I knew I wouldn't be able to do much to it for a couple of years and wanted the strongest stock I can get.

Getting my sister to go the Sport route, though, and we'll build it up.
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Old 06-15-2014, 04:40 PM   #14
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you have to be in 4lo to use the lockers on the rubicon... I offroad on gravel/dirt/mud roads at the deer camp and rarely use 4lo. A sport with lsd is more useful in my situations
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Old 06-15-2014, 04:41 PM   #15
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I have taken my 2dr Sport with a manual, 3.73's with lsd and minimal lift, diff armor, disconnected sways, 33" Duratracs and sliders into places where guys in Rubicons have trouble. Equipment is good but the driver has a lot to do with it. I was fortunate enough tonhave a few very experienced friends who i trusted on giving me tips and guidance. Anyone can go write a check, buy a rubi or deck out a jeep but you have to build on basic knowledge of driving or you may get in some serious trouble with broken parts or worse.

Locker is on my list but I havent had a spot where I couldnt have made it without one. Dont forget Jeeps have been running trail for more than half a century with minimal stuff. Its only the last ten years that you've been able to buy a super rig off the show room. Rubi is great, or you can do your own version over time if you buy a sporty like me. The 4:1 rocktrac is great, but some say its too low when it comes to sand and stuff you need speed at where a Sport case is better. Rocks, ive been looking for a rocktrac to swap since with my manual it will crawl.

Its really up to personal choice and check book. Rubi is a better out of the box wheeler no doubt, but a Sport will basically follow it most anywhere and is a good platform to upgrade.
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:15 PM   #16
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The right driver and the right tires can make any rig perform to it's capabilities--but the more capable the vehicle is the further the driver can take it. From what you are describing for off road a sport would serve you well--particularly if you opt for some lower gears and possible a LSD. Brake lock works ok but a limited slip diff will improve it.
As someone had said earlier--if you need a Rubicon for where you off road you will not need to ask if the question if you need a Rubicon because you have already know that you have driven your sport to its limitations.
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:27 PM   #17
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Edit, I also wanted to add that a Rubicon is more capable (I dunno 20-30%), but the driver is a much bigger factor in the equation.

Th right guy on a unicycle can beat me on my mountainbike.


When I read this I thought of this video =)
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:06 PM   #18
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IF both have the SAME tires a Sport with LSD and 3.73 gears will be able to go places in 2H that a Rubicon will need to be in 4H and in 4H were the Rubicon needs to be in 4L. The Rubicon as I understand it can only engage their lockers in 4L, meaning they are open diff with BLD in 2H and 4H and no better than an open diff Sport without LSD.

That said, the Rubicon with it's dual D44s and lockers in 4L is monster. I see them gets more folks into trouble then it gets them out of. Still it is a winner in the extreme rocks and mud were 4L and lockers are king.
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:52 PM   #19
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The bld system on jks will prevent this...

You're right though, it should, but I didn't think about that till after the fact. I'll have to wait till it rains and try it again sometime.
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Old 06-15-2014, 10:37 PM   #20
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Forget both the Sport and the Rubbycon

Sahara's rock when you are headed to the Mall!!!!
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Old 06-15-2014, 10:50 PM   #21
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Forget both the Sport and the Rubbycon

Sahara's rock when you are headed to the Mall!!!!
You're supposed to keep your tires on the ground. Don't you read off-road manuals?

Seriously, I love that picture. The mall should really pave repave that parking lot though
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:15 AM   #22
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You're supposed to keep your tires on the ground. Don't you read off-road manuals?

Seriously, I love that picture. The mall should really pave repave that parking lot though
Yeah, but what fun would that be?????
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:33 AM   #23
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There's nothing a Rubicon has that you can't put in a Sport. Manual sway bar disconnects are cheap. Lockers and gears will set you back a few grand. A new transfer case to get the 4:1 ratio is probably a few grand. But it can be done.

But like cornfed alluded to, don't confuse the Sport with a Subaru or Honda AWD typed of rig. It's got real four wheel drive and it's a very capable vehicle. I'd suspect most of us will never use the Rubicon lockers or TC to their full potential. I bought mine because I wanted it and it had some other features I liked, not because I needed it. I've never had disconnects or lockers until now and I managed quiet well.

You get a Sport with 3.73s, put a locker in the rear, disconnects and you can go just about anywhere a Rubicon can go for less money. Even stock, a good driver in a Sport can do more than a novice in a Rubicon. Driver skill will get you a long way. Buy what you want. If you want a nice rig out of the gate, buy the Rubicon. If you like building your own, get a Sport and make it your own.
I agree with you but when you price the parts unless you are going to do all of the install yourself you are not going to save much if any money. Also when you compare them make sure you do it option for option and don't forget the Rubicon parts will be covered under warranty and if you make the same changes to a sport you will likely be voiding most of your factory warranty.

If you want a full warranty and the ease of buying a complete rig that will handle almost everything you can throw at it then go with a rubicon. If you are going to build a offroad monster/rock crawler then a low option sport built your self may be the way to go either way you go they are a great platform.
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:43 AM   #24
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All the models are good, and there are lots of ways to get it the way you want.
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Old 06-16-2014, 07:51 AM   #25
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To simplyfy things. When a sport gets stuck a Rubicon can keep going and get further down the trail.
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:20 AM   #26
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To simplyfy things. When a sport gets stuck a Rubicon can keep going and get further down the trail.
Not necessarily. I have seen Rubicons get winched or strapped over obstacles where a mere lowly Sport/Sahara made it.
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:28 AM   #27
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Not necessarily. I have seen Rubicons get winched or strapped over obstacles where a mere lowly Sport/Sahara made it.
I have seen dozer,s get stuck! And it is usually driver error.

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Old 06-16-2014, 08:35 AM   #28
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Not necessarily. I have seen Rubicons get winched or strapped over obstacles where a mere lowly Sport/Sahara made it.
which all boils down to tires and driver.
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:42 AM   #29
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Not necessarily. I have seen Rubicons get winched or strapped over obstacles where a mere lowly Sport/Sahara made it.
I think driver skill plays a huge part.

If it were the same driver and both stock sport and Rubicon, I know the Rubicon will make it further. Better tires and lockers make a huge difference.
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:15 AM   #30
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Rubicon also has a different transfer case. Again something that can be swapped / upgraded but really depends on how much work you want to do to a brand new jeep.

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