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Critique my "Rubicon vs Aftermarket Analysis"

8K views 65 replies 22 participants last post by  RichL35 
#1 ·
I'm in the market for a new JKU. Part of my research includes breeching the ever-recurring Rubicon vs Aftermarket subject.

I've driven a moderately built WJ for the last 11 years and drove a mildly built CJ5 for 4 years prior to that. My wife daily drives our Jeep, we do about 4 or 5 "overland" type trips throughout rural Utah each year and maybe 4 or 5 moderate "rock crawling" trips in Southern Utah (Moab, St George, etc) each year.

I feel pretty confident in how I need my vehicle to perform and what the end product needs to be like. At this point, I'm just considering the various methods of getting there.

Below is a screenshot of my spreadsheet called "Rubicon vs Aftermarket Analysis." Please give me your input...

-What have I neglected to consider?
-Do my prices seem reasonable? (note that I prefer to guess high on purchase price of parts and guess low on the sale price of takeoff parts)

Note also, that in order to compare apples to apples between a Rubicon and a built Sport (as much as is possible anyway), I have included the costs of things like LED headlights, power windows, power doors, alarm, and the factory Rubicon electronic swaybar disconnect system. However, it is entirely possible that I would end up foregoing some of those modifications in the end. But as a starting point, what do you think?

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#5 ·
True, definitely will consider the time. However, I will have a lot of time into either vehicle (front axle, etc), but definitely more time will be involved in converting the sport. Where it's sitting now, the $400 or so bucks would be worth less work. I'm not done tinkering with the options though, so we'll see.
 
#3 ·
Do you need a factory swaybar disconnect on the Sport, or would you be OK pulling pins? That's a $1500 question.

iirc there is a difference between the Rubicon's D44 rear and the Sport/Sahara D44 rear - can't find a source at the moment.

Did you look into the Recon with it's new & improved front D44 beefed up with thicker tubes and forgings than a regular Rubicon's front D44?

https://www.jeep.com/limited-editions/2017/wrangler/rubicon-recon/index.html

 
#8 ·
Do you need a factory swaybar disconnect on the Sport, or would you be OK pulling pins? That's a $1500 question.
I have it on there right now so as to start with comparing apples to apples. In the end, I don't know, pulling pins never bothered me on my current Jeep, will definitely continue to think that one through. Thanks for the comment.

iirc there is a difference between the Rubicon's D44 rear and the Sport/Sahara D44 rear - can't find a source at the moment.
I've searched and searched and haven't been able to find anything other than the locker and the length of the shafts due to the locker. Would love more info in anybody knows.

Did you look into the Recon with it's new & improved front D44 beefed up with thicker tubes and forgings than a regular Rubicon's front D44?
I had no idea the Recon was a different front D44. Will have to research that further and see how it compares pricewise and strengthwise to the Teraflex heavy duty housing. Thanks!
 
#10 ·
$2300 for a lift?
I tried to cheap out on the lift on my current WJ and learned my lesson the hard way. It was about $2,900 for a full Clayton kit on that Jeep and I decided instead to piece it together one part at a time as I found weaknesses in it and/or decided on upgrades. I have spent thousands over the last 10 years dealing with the consequences of that decision (death wobble, poor handling, increased wear and tear on parts, etc.). I wish I would have just spent the money and done it right the first time. This time I'll do a complete kit with all the parts I need the first time.

Why replace the 44 on the Rubicon? Full Truss and gusset front and rear and knock a lot off your budget.
I already know that I'm going to abuse it and I need the balljoints/inner Cs/ and axle tubes to be up to the task. I could just beef up the existing Rubicon axle, but a lot of those upgrades require welding. I can weld a little, when it comes to something like the front axle, where my family's lives depend on the quality of the welds, I would have to hire it out to a professional, which would significantly increase the cost. Also, If I just swap it out, I have a clean, 0 mile Rubicon front axle I can sell to recoup some of the cost, and I have Teraflex standing behind the quality of their product if I have any problems down the road.

There is a difference between Rubicon/non Rubicon rear 44.
Would love to know what differences there are. All the searches I've done only yield results about the front axle, not the rear.
 
#6 ·
The time not being spent in the shop was a good point. Another point to reconsider is the resale and warranty. Aftermarket mods do not increase the value of the vehicle much, if any (sometimes they can even detract), but that Rubicon decal on the hood is worth a premium where resale is considered.

Personally, if I knew I wanted the capability, and had the budget to go aftermarket, I'd just go Rubi and get it setup from the factory. However, if huge tires and axle swaps are in your future, than it may not be worth it. OTOH, what's the going rate for a take off Rubi D44? That's money that cold go towards your ultimate build.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, as I am in the market for a JK. Personally, If I had the money I would go Rubi, as that setup will suit my needs just fine (likely even overkill), and I won't have to worry about breaking anything or upgrading it, other than a few inches of lift and 33-35" tires.

It doesn't seem to be in my budget though, so most likely I'll have to make due with a mildly modded sport (33's and armor).
 
#17 ·
...Another point to reconsider is the resale and warranty. Aftermarket mods do not increase the value of the vehicle much, if any (sometimes they can even detract), but that Rubicon decal on the hood is worth a premium where resale is considered...
Good points for sure. Thanks for the input.

As to the resale, I tend to drive my vehicles till they have no resale. 10+ years on most of them, and that's after somebody else puts several years and 100k miles into them. Most of my vehicles I have sold to the junkyard for a couple hundred dollars, so resales wasn't a factor. That being said, I may be starting a new trend since I'm starting with a new vehicle. I'm not sure how to quantify the resale value in my analysis.

Not sure how to quantify warranty either.
 
#7 ·
Seeing that you are ready to drop some serious coin, I would opt for the Rubicon Recon and enjoy it right out of the box, unless you must do all the mods that you listed to make it trail ready...
 
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#13 ·
To be honest, I've never really looked into what the Recon has to offer above the regular Rubicon. Just assumed it was stickers/stereos/leather and the like, none of which is very important to me.

Until JKURz Wild's comment about the upgraded front axle, I hadn't thought twice about the Recon.

I guess I need to look closer at what the Recon might have to offer compared to some of the aftermarket upgrades I am considering. Thanks for the input.
 
#9 ·
Also, what size tires? For 35 or larger, I see no steering upgrades or hydroassist. If you're doing the kind of wheeling that you even contemplate ditching a stock front 44, I see no skid plates. Shocks? $240 is cheap for balljoints - I would go Dynatrac. What about rear axle shafts - if you're doing big tires and you wheel, yours will not be long for the world. Also driveshafts - what size lift? If 3.5 (recommended for a 4 door that plans to wheel moderately difficult stuff), you may need a draglink flip.

Your idea is good to compare but I think step away from the keyboard and "pieces parts" and decide what you are building the Jeep to do, and some more specifics like tire size and lift size.
 
#11 ·
-Planning on 37s/ 4.88s /3" lift (with flare trimming)

-I have overlooked skidplates, thanks for pointing that out. Skidplates are something I would build myself though. I will need to think through the cost on that.

-Shocks would be part of whatever lift package I end up with. Still need to hone in exactly which lift and what parts it includes.

-Synergy HD Ball joint set of 4 is about $200, Teraflex HD Ball joint set of 4 is about $250. Dynatrac HD Ball joint set of 4 is about $520. Will have to research that a little more. Thanks for the comment.

-Driveshafts may be in the future, but my understanding is that 3" is about the cutoff point between needing them and not.
 
#14 ·
I would rather run a trussed stock axle than an aftermarket 44. I trussed both front and rear and it wasn't that expensive. Certainly not $4k expensive. But if you have no one to weld, then a truss is a no go so you may be better off with the new axle.

The outer spline count on Rubicon shafts is different iirc. They may be different lengths as well.

I questioned the $2300 for a Teraflex lift - forgot to specify. I agree go for quality - I would look to Rock Krawler or Metalcloak tho rather than Teraflex for the JK if you have the budget. Tho curious which TF lift is $2300? What height?
 
#22 ·
I would rather run a trussed stock axle than an aftermarket 44. I trussed both front and rear and it wasn't that expensive. Certainly not $4k expensive. But if you have no one to weld, then a truss is a no go so you may be better off with the new axle.
Teraflex front is $4100, minus about $1800 to resale the Rubicon front for a net of about $2300. Trusses + inner C supports + ball joints + labor to weld it all up + repaint + gears + gear install would still probably be less. But I'm willing to spend the little bit more to have a complete product with a Teraflex warranty.[/QUOTE]

The outer spline count on Rubicon shafts is different iirc. They may be different lengths as well.
Do people generally have troubles with the stock rear shafts? Sport or Rubicon? Most of the failures I'm reading about with respect to stock axles all revolve around the front. Haven't heard much about the rear.

I actually have a JK Rubicon rear D44 in my WJ. I've had it about 5 years and have been very satisfied with it. If the sport rear D44 is significantly weaker, I need to know about that. Are people upgrading the rear sport axleshafts when they lock them?

I questioned the $2300 for a Teraflex lift - forgot to specify. I agree go for quality - I would look to Rock Krawler or Metalcloak tho rather than Teraflex for the JK if you have the budget. Tho curious which TF lift is $2300? What height?
The $2,300 is the Teraflex 3" Outback lift https://teraflex.com/shop_items/532753e27f42cb68c208e176

Although they have a ton in the 3" range with prices all over the place https://teraflex.com/shop/category?...3"+Lift&vehicle=JKU+Wrangler+Unlimited&page=1

I don't care about the speed bumps part of their package, so would see if they would put together a similar package without the speedbumps. However, that particular package doesn't include shocks, so that would need to be added back in. In the end, I probably just head out to their showroom (it's local to me) and have them hobble together all the parts I need into a custom package (springs, adjustable control arms, shocks, rear trackbar bracket, front trackbar, limit straps (maybe), swaybar links, etc., etc...). In the end, I think I'll still be in the $2,300 ballpark. However, the exact final price is irrelevant to the Rubicon vs Sport consideration. That variable will vary equally regardless.
 
#20 ·
I'd say get a Rubicon and be done with that.
Getting Sport and build it up makes sense if:
1) You're going to swap axles for Dana60
2) You're enjoying building your Jeep yourself
3) You cannot afford Rubi from the start

I personally built my Sport to a Rubi level and beyond for the reasons #2 and #3, done everything myself, saved tons of money and have no regrets. But this is definitely not a path I would recommend to everyone.

BTW, forget about selling stock suspension from Sport for $250 ;)
 
#25 ·
I reread your post - for 37s move steering onto the list. Hydroassist, aluminum or HD metal tie rod and drag link. Cost depends if you can take downtime on your Jeep to have your steering box tapped or if you just get a new tapped box. Cost for steering, tie rod, draglink - estimate $3k +/-. Without hydroassist, your front lockers will be largely useless paperweights.

Also, drop your gearing to 5.13 if an automatic (no cost change). You will really be able to crawl the 4:1.
 
#31 ·
I reread your post - for 37s move steering onto the list. Hydroassist, aluminum or HD metal tie rod and drag link. Cost depends if you can take downtime on your Jeep to have your steering box tapped or if you just get a new tapped box. Cost for steering, tie rod, draglink - estimate $3k +/-. Without hydroassist, your front lockers will be largely useless paperweights.
Thanks for the comment. Will do some more research on the steering.

Also, drop your gearing to 5.13 if an automatic (no cost change). You will really be able to crawl the 4:1.
I'm planning on a manual. The 4.88s are likely where I'll end up, but that's a decision yet down the road.

My CJ was 3.15 1st gear x 2.02 transfercase x 3.73 axles = 24 to 1 crawl ratio

My WJ is 2.86 1st gear x 2.72 transfercase x 4.10 axles = 32 to 1 crawl ratio

Definitely looking forward to better crawl ratios in my future, regardless of the 4.88 vs 5.13 debate.
 
#30 ·
IMO replace the electronic swaybar disconnect with Currie Anti-Rock's (~$1k front+rear).
 
#41 ·
I'm in the market for a new JKU. Part of my research includes breeching the ever-recurring Rubicon vs Aftermarket subject.

I've driven a moderately built WJ for the last 11 years and drove a mildly built CJ5 for 4 years prior to that. My wife daily drives our Jeep, we do about 4 or 5 "overland" type trips throughout rural Utah each year and maybe 4 or 5 moderate "rock crawling" trips in Southern Utah (Moab, St George, etc) each year.

I feel pretty confident in how I need my vehicle to perform and what the end product needs to be like. At this point, I'm just considering the various methods of getting there.

Below is a screenshot of my spreadsheet called "Rubicon vs Aftermarket Analysis." Please give me your input...

-What have I neglected to consider?
-Do my prices seem reasonable? (note that I prefer to guess high on purchase price of parts and guess low on the sale price of takeoff parts)

Note also, that in order to compare apples to apples between a Rubicon and a built Sport (as much as is possible anyway), I have included the costs of things like LED headlights, power windows, power doors, alarm, and the factory Rubicon electronic swaybar disconnect system. However, it is entirely possible that I would end up foregoing some of those modifications in the end. But as a starting point, what do you think?

View attachment 3606234
Ok you are kinda confusing. For overloading and maybe level 6 type Moab trails which a mildly equipped 2/4 door Sport with LSD, 2.5" lift and 35 can easily handle. But your specs and other post indicate you really want to build a rock crawler (3.5" lift, 4.10 trans, 4.88 gears and 37s) which is ok if that is what you really want, but is way over kill for the over landing type off
roading you mention above.

Your list of mod is missing two very important items if you are going with a 3.5"+ lift and build list that indicate a leaning towards hard use rock crawling. Those are front and rear drive shafts. The front for sure will be the first to need replacement followed not far behind by the rear. IMO you are be better served to take the advice of others and just sleeve, gusset or truss the front axel vs. replacing it and use the money for quality HD drive shafts. The factory shafts lack a good range of travel which can greatly limit wheel travel (flex) and are well know for developing clunking noises in Jeeps used often off road.

There are a lot of other items on your list that are really not needed as the stock JK/U/R are far superior (sorry TJ guys) to the Jeeps the proceeded it and the money could be spent in other areas that would better serve you. But then it is your vision of what you want.

Build for what you need first to get out and start enjoying your Jeep and upgrade as needed to further the enjoyment.
 
#44 ·
Thank you for the comments on the driveshafts. The lift manufacturers seem to be suggesting stock driveshafts are okay up to 3", but the feedback here has not been consistent with that advice. I have added them to my spreadsheet and will research further.

As to the truss and gusset, that also seems to be a fairly popular response here as well, so I will look into that further. However, I'm not sure the math will come out a whole lot different comparing A (aftermarket axle w/ warranty - rubicon axle resale) vs B (sleeve + truss + gusset + professional welding + ball joints + gears + gear install...). I will definitely take the advice though and start running through some of those calculations.

When I say "moderate rock crawling" (with respect to the Moab trails anyway), I'm talking about anything on the Easter Jeep Safari Route list on public land. My current rig is maxed out and beyond on the EJS 6 rated trails, and I'm looking for a step further, with a lot more margin of safety.

You've read into me pretty well when you say that it appears I'm overbuilding.

I have driven a rig that is underbuilt for what I do for a bit too long. So that is 1 vote for erring on the side of overbuilt.

Also, I spend a reasonable amount of time wheeling alone (just me and my family) or with only 1 other rig in very remote areas. So again, a 2nd vote for overbuilt.

Also, when it comes to the "overlanding" part of my use, I find that overlanding is exactly when things like lockers and large tires have been most useful to me in the past. Nothing worse than driving for several hours on a nice moderate trail in the backcountry just to come up on a severely washed out section of road where the choice is to risk being stuck/ stranded/ broken in the middle of nowhere all alone or turn back. Overbuilt reduces the number of times I have to choose the turn back option. So again, a 3rd vote for overbuilt.
 
#47 ·
I'm in the market for a new JKU. Part of my research includes breeching the ever-recurring Rubicon vs Aftermarket subject.

I've driven a moderately built WJ for the last 11 years and drove a mildly built CJ5 for 4 years prior to that. My wife daily drives our Jeep, we do about 4 or 5 "overland" type trips throughout rural Utah each year and maybe 4 or 5 moderate "rock crawling" trips in Southern Utah (Moab, St George, etc) each year.

I feel pretty confident in how I need my vehicle to perform and what the end product needs to be like. At this point, I'm just considering the various methods of getting there.

Below is a screenshot of my spreadsheet called "Rubicon vs Aftermarket Analysis." Please give me your input...

-What have I neglected to consider?
-Do my prices seem reasonable? (note that I prefer to guess high on purchase price of parts and guess low on the sale price of takeoff parts)

Note also, that in order to compare apples to apples between a Rubicon and a built Sport (as much as is possible anyway), I have included the costs of things like LED headlights, power windows, power doors, alarm, and the factory Rubicon electronic swaybar disconnect system. However, it is entirely possible that I would end up foregoing some of those modifications in the end. But as a starting point, what do you think?

View attachment 3606234


Also, keep in mind you recover more of your cost with a stock Rubicon should you sell the vehicle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#51 ·
Adding, Aftermarket power windows and locks just seems silly and just asking for troubles. The onboard computer would need to be flashed, and not to mention adding all the switches into panels that don't have the panels to mount them and adding wiring harnesses afterwards would just be a major headache. There's places to save money from the factory if you prefer aftermarket but this isn't one of them.

You should look up some of the builds where others have attempted to add power windows/locks afterwards on a JK. They're a mess.

Also unless you plan on keeping it forever, you're going to be taking a major loss with aftermarket parts when you try to sell it. Although you're building it into making it equivalent to a Rubicon, it is NOT a Rubicon and won't sell with a Rubicon price value. If anything you may likely get less for it in the resale market because many prefer to make their own mods and start with a base model. That will be the same with your insurance if you ever got in an accident and it was totaled. You would get Sport money payoff from the insurance with nothing additional for the aftermarket parts you added to turn it into a Rubicon.

Some other things to consider, besides just the offroad components everyone is focused on.
 
#58 ·
Adding, Aftermarket power windows and locks just seems silly and just asking for troubles. The onboard computer would need to be flashed, and not to mention adding all the switches into panels that don't have the panels to mount them and adding wiring harnesses afterwards would just be a major headache. There's places to save money from the factory if you prefer aftermarket but this isn't one of them.

You should look up some of the builds where others have attempted to add power windows/locks afterwards on a JK. They're a mess.
Do you need a factory swaybar disconnect on the Sport, or would you be OK pulling pins? That's a $1500 question...
Thanks for the input, that was addressed in the first post...

...Note also, that in order to compare apples to apples between a Rubicon and a built Sport (as much as is possible anyway), I have included the costs of things like LED headlights, power windows, power doors, alarm, and the factory Rubicon electronic swaybar disconnect system. However, it is entirely possible that I would end up foregoing some of those modifications in the end...
However, I have now updated the spreadsheet to make it more clear.
 
#53 ·
I'm not sure what trails constitute a 6 rating at Moab, but a factory D44 will hold up fine. I have a 12 JKUR and have ran all the difficult trails there to include pritchett canyon and behind the rocks twice. My factory carrier has held up fine.

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#59 ·
Updated Spreadsheet

Thanks for all the great ideas. A lot of things have been pointed out that I hadn't thought through very well. Below is an updated screenshot of my spreadsheet (unfortunately I can't edit the original post - too new of a forum member I suppose).

Anyway, based on your feedback, I have edited as follows:

1. Added consideration for trussing/ gusseting/ sleeving the stock Rubicon front axle as a possible option
2. Added upgraded rear axleshafts
3. Added driveshafts
4. Added steering upgrades
5. Added skidplate upgrades (DIY - I have always built my own/ modified stock skidpates in the past)
6. Added consideration of affect on resale value/ insurance value (though I have no idea how to quantify that variable so it is added as something to "keep in mind")
7. Added consideration of affect on factory warranty (though I have no idea how to quantify that variable so it is added as something to "keep in mind")
8. Adjust resale values of stock suspensions (Sport = $0, Rubicon = $200)
9. Separated some Rubicon features from the rest of the upgrades. Electric swaybar, power windows, etc... These are items that I want to keep on the spreadsheet so that I am more closely comparing apples to apples. But in the end would possibly drop them in favor of a different animal (an orange if you will).

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#61 ·
Also, a few of you have questioned the wisdom of doing all those upgrades immediately to a newly purchased vehicle. That it might make more sense to the upgrades in increments over time as need is established. I do agree to some respect and not ALL upgrades would be made immediately, but I certainly want to try and be as honest with myself as possible about the total costs. And I certainly want to thoroughly consider which upgrades will be most economical to make earliest on (i.e. if I'm going to beef up or upgrade the front axle, I want to do so before I've compromised the structural or economic integrity of the stock axle.

I imagine I'm going to want to do 75% or more of my upgrading within weeks of purchase, while the rest might be months, years, or never down the road. While that would kick some of the costs down the road or off the map even, I still want to have considered those costs before I ever got started.

For my purposes, I'm thinking pretty strongly that starting with the Rubicon is going to make slightly more sense overall. But I'm not done messing with the numbers and deciding exactly what the finished product will look like.

With this type of analysis, it is so easy to massage the numbers or the list of upgrades and quickly justify a foregone conclusion one way or the other. It is not very easy to be truly subjective. I'm absolutely certain that I'm not being truly subjective in my analysis, but hopefully I'm being subjective enough to avoid convincing myself of a false reality.

Also, a few of you have mentioned things like "I have (or so and so has) driven XYZ trail (or type of trail) with ABC modification," implying that it is silly for me to consider upgrades beyond the stated ABC modification. However, there is a difference between a vehicle modified in a certain way having once survived a trip on a certain type of trail and that same vehicle surviving several trips per year on that certain type of trail. Also, having the vehicle survive the trail in a state that it is still reliably usable for regular highway use and daily driver duties afterward. My wife once went 2 years where she wouldn't drive our WJ on any divided highway, because she was so afraid of having a bout of death wobble without a safe exit route. The vehicle had "survived" all kinds of trails, but on those trails some parts' structural integrity had been compromised in a way that I was chasing down gremlins that seriously affected highway driveability for some time. My wife needed a certain period of time with no adverse highway driveability before she had confidence that I had performed the correct modifications.
 
#64 ·
I've always had the theory of if you are only going to put on 35" or less tires get a Rubicon with 4.10 gears because all it would need is a small lift. But if you are going larger than 35" get a Sport and build from there.

Some of the Rubicon "features" are nice on weekender rig, but if you're going to do more difficult trails out west you want better "features."

I own a JKUR, it's more than capable for our need. I do with we had an aftermarket swaybar disconnect (for more articulation and less body rocking back and forth), aftermarket lockers (current ones are okay but don't stay locked in if your going faster than 18MPH), front axle isn't a true D44 (thin tubes and lighter duty knuckles).

I'm not too familiar with Teraflex axles, but I'd consider getting an axle that would give me a little more clearance. Give the Dynatrac ProRock44 a look and maybe the ProRock 60 Full-Float rear a look too.

Another rule of thumb I've read is 37" is about the limit of a D44. So a stock D44 rear might not be as reliable as you'd like.

And like others have said, I'd look at RK, Metalcloak, or EVO lifts instead of teraflex. I'm not bashing Teraflex, but those others are just better.


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#65 ·
@ret32, A small critique on your list.

Front armor kit and sleeves - $1000, around $400 for parts and $600 for labor. Do this while re-gearing saves money.

Axle re-gear - $1000 per axle to re-gear is high. I had Northridge 4X4 do mine for $700 a axle.

One thing I don't see here is a big brake kit. Of course this can be added later down the road. But running 37's I would classify it as a must.
 
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