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Old 08-20-2013, 08:36 AM   #31
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Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. I'm starting to feel better about this.

I think the best plan is to keep it at least until I see if it does what I expect it to do. I guess what started my doubts was that other than lockers, I'm also lacking LSD and I'm getting a 3.21 and I thought I also lacked the Brake Lock Differentials.

My only off-road experience was with an old Chevy Blazer in the early 90s. My friends and I got into some pretty hairy messes with it and needed to call for tows several times. Thankfully, we were close enough to roads that we could tell people where to find us. More often than not, the guys that pulled us out were in Jeeps and that was long before Rubicons even existed... so I guess I will need to keep that in mind.

Worst case, I can systematically add things as I find challenges. Unless I get a winch, the best plan is to never go too far without a buddy, so we can pull each other out.

Thanks Olsen for the heads up about Globex in Toms River... I have clients in that area so I will definitely look them up. At least I'll know where to get mods when I need them.

For what it's worth, I'm so glad I found this forum. You guys are the best!

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Old 08-20-2013, 08:39 AM   #32
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There's no reason for the want vs. need conversation here.

The way I see it, if we drove what we need to get to work, we'd all be riding bikes, golf carts, the bus or walking. That's how most of the world does it.

It's about want. It doesn't matter if he wants to slam a Sahara on DUBS or throw after market axles and 40" MTs on a Sport or put two winches, 18 lights and a snorkel on a Rubicon to drive to the mall.

If dude doesn't get what he wants, he'll get that buyer's remorse.

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Old 08-20-2013, 08:49 AM   #33
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Have you watch the two video on Command-Trac and Rock-track on the jeep web site. They might answer your question on which you really want/need.
Yes. I saw those videos... and that was one of the key reasons why I felt that I was getting far less capability than I expected.

Rock-track kicks ass. I just need to see how often I encounter trails that will need it.

I had visited the Jeep Jamboree web site and discovered that some upcoming events such as one in the Catskill Mountains (NY) that say:

"33 inch tires min, 1 locker and tow hooks mandatory."

This essentially means I am not even allowed at that event.

Meanwhile, I noticed three other events next March that are even closer, in the NJ/NJ/PA area that simply say "tow hooks mandatory". So, for what it's worth, I'm more likely to go to the events that don't require lockers anyway, but it bugged me that I was not allowed at some events.

I've never been to an event, but from what I read there are lots of spotters and lots of Jeeps to tow you out if you get stuck without lockers or winches.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:54 AM   #34
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I think you're feeling too bad for someone out there to make money off of you... Remember, the stealership is there to provide a service to you: the facilitation of a massive amount of your funds into their pocket, for a product. If you're not happy with that product, screw them. Don't take it. Get what you want. You could also cancel the order and go to another stealership... But in the end, him choosing to stock hardtops is a financial move as he can get more from them. But remember these are wranglers... not some obscure import. Someone will still come along and buy the softie... Also, he could buy the hardtop and sell it as a dual top for even more money...

I got a rubicon first and have never looked back. A few sport owner friends always comment on the rubi.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:01 AM   #35
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Don't know if this will be of any help to you or not but I own a sport (with some mods but no lockers) and recently had it out putting it through its paces a bit. I was super impressed what I could do with just BLD and in my mind if I do get into a bad spot I can always use my winch. I think someone else already said it but most never use their winch and just have it for insurance. I'm in that group. I have it but apart from doing a function check once in a while it has never been used to date.

Anyway, here is a link to a post I put up a few weeks ago of what I've been doing in my non locked sport. Perhaps it will help with what you are wrestling with.....or not.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/201...on-260480.html
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:04 AM   #36
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As others have said, I would get the Rubi. You are already feeling buyer's remorse before you even got your Jeep. I'd approach the dealer and see what can be worked out. Perhaps a dealer trade could be made. If they want your sale (and you play nice in the process), I suspect something can be worked out. But, I'd let them know sooner rather than later if you intend to change.

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Old 08-20-2013, 09:14 AM   #37
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You may have wanted to listen to your dealer the first couple times around. I am guessing they don't sell soft top jeeps in New York for a reason. I'll bet you will need that more than lockers...
They don't stock large quantities of soft top Jeeps in NY/NJ because 95% of all JKs sold in that area are JKU mall crawlers driven by soccer moms. I live in CT where soft tops are a little more common, but even the dealers here say less than 5% of buyers actually take the Jeeps off road.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:18 AM   #38
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As others have said, I would get the Rubi. You are already feeling buyer's remorse before you even got your Jeep. I'd approach the dealer and see what can be worked out. Perhaps a dealer trade could be made. If they want your sale (and you play nice in the process), I suspect something can be worked out. But, I'd let them know sooner rather than later if you intend to change.

Whatever happens, have fun. You will enjoy your Jeep.
When I was buying my JKU Rubicon, I made my dealer go through all kinds of hoops. I wouldn't settle for an automatic transmission, and there wasn't a JKU Rubicon 6-spd manual within 250 miles of the dealership. As another poster said, it is their JOB to do this crap for you, because they make money off you. Feeling guilty about putting out a stealership is like feeling guilty about buying bad coffee from Starbucks.

I made my dealer do a dealer trade and swap his mickey thompson wheel showroom floor model to get my Rubicon into the state. I don't regret it, but I would've regretted settling just to make my dealer's life a little easier.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:19 AM   #39
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I'm going to echo what Invictus said.

Deal fairly with the dealer, but don't let them fool you with "I'm loosing my shirt on this deal for you". Let me tell you the sure fire way you will know they aren't making money from you - when they say "no deal" and let you walk away without trying to wear you down any more. Up until then, it doesn't matter how much they make you 'feel' (good, bad, angry, guilty, ashamed, tired, etc)... if you haven't signed "yes" and they are still negotiating, they still see PROFIT to be had.

The consequence of that? Get what you want, period. Like others said, if you care about color, get the color you want too.

As for what a Rubicon has that a Sport doesn't have: I went through this debate myself a year ago, and ended up with a Sport. Having wheeled it in very nearly stock condition for a year now, I will tell you the one and only thing that I wish I had from the factory out of the Rubicon trim level - the Rubicon transfer case. To me everything else that I want is either a fairly simple (aside from cost) upgrade to get above what the Rubicon offers (for example: axle gear ratios and lockers) or will be replaced anyway (for example: tires - the wheels themselves are only a cosmetic difference).
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:35 AM   #40
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Two shots of my stock (except for Ace rock sliders) Sport for inspiration. This was an 'up the mountain and back down the same "road" again' situation. Mine was by far the closest to stock of all the rigs on the run.


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Old 08-20-2013, 10:29 AM   #41
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"33 inch tires min, 1 locker and tow hooks mandatory."

This essentially means I am not even allowed at that event.

Meanwhile, I noticed three other events next March that are even closer, in the NJ/NJ/PA area that simply say "tow hooks mandatory". So, for what it's worth, I'm more likely to go to the events that don't require lockers anyway, but it bugged me that I was not allowed at some events.

I've never been to an event, but from what I read there are lots of spotters and lots of Jeeps to tow you out if you get stuck without lockers or winches.
A Rubicon doesn't come with 33 inch tires either just as an FYI.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:04 AM   #42
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Take the sport. Then sign up for the off road 101 at rauche creek. Its about an hour and a half drive from NYC. Maybe two hours. On the way back, stop at OK4wd on 57 and order what you may need. You can probably still negotiate 33" tires in your purchase. LSD in the rear, a locker in the front and better gears might be the best upgrade early on.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:58 AM   #43
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Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. I'm starting to feel better about this.

I think the best plan is to keep it at least until I see if it does what I expect it to do. I guess what started my doubts was that other than lockers, I'm also lacking LSD and I'm getting a 3.21 and I thought I also lacked the Brake Lock Differentials.




For what it's worth, I'm so glad I found this forum. You guys are the best!
There is the issue right there. 3.21's and an open diff. Rubi or not, you will probably want to change that. If you get a Sport, get 3.73's and either factor LSD, or add an aftermarket LSD or locker. That Command-Trac video had a very good example of when Trac-Lok/LSD comes into play. Or jump to a Rubi, which does not have LSD, but it does have all of the other features needed for more severe off-roading. Just keep in mind that a stock Sport is still a pretty capable vehicle.

However, you don't want to pay +$30,000 for something you are not happy with when another $5000 or $6000 can get you what you want. Just make sure you know what you want.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:59 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Ivoryring View Post
Two shots of my stock (except for Ace rock sliders) Sport for inspiration. This was an 'up the mountain and back down the same "road" again' situation. Mine was by far the closest to stock of all the rigs on the run.
On stock SRA's?!?!?
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:42 PM   #45
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If your going to take delivery of the sport why not put the lift and tires you want on it and take it out a couple times and see what you want to upgrade? I know the more I get out on the trail the higher up air goes on my list.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:00 PM   #46
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When I bought my JKU, I originally went to the dealer to look at a Sahara. While I was there, I notices the JKUR 10A and really liked the look. I originally avoided the Rubicon because I do not plan on going off-road and most dealers push more towards the Sahara (these are stock at much higher numbers around here compared to the Rubicon).

So, at the dealer, I test drove both the Sahara and Rubcon 10A and I decided on the 10A. At the time, I told myself I wouldn't lift it, or mod it much because it comes rather well equiped. However, 2k miles later I am planning a lift and a series of mods afterwards.

Point of this ramble is, 1) you need to buy what you want from the start - I am much happier with the Rubicon over the Sahara and 2) regardless of what you buy, you will be adding mods.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:09 PM   #47
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I have to jump on the "cancel the order bandwagon" but not because its not a Rubi- 3.21s are great for stock vehicles. That's about it. You have a one-two combo- Rubi envy and a crappy gear ratio.
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/3-2...st-209000.html
(Many people are fine with 3.21s and larger tires; why be "fine" when you can get "better" with 3.73s from the start. Anything larger than 33s you may regret 3.21s).
On to Rubi-envy- I bought a base Sport and have added most "Rubicon" features for less than what a Rubi would've cost me. (I even have a Rubi e-disco) BUT we installed it all ourselves otherwise I doubt that'd be the case. IMO I added better products than what came on a Rubi- and I added them as I figured out what I wanted based on how I used my Jeep.
Its a tough call because without prior wheeling experience its hard to know if you'll "use" the upgrades a Rubi offers. I didn't set-up my rig to rock crawl and that's what I do. Had I known that to start I would've bought a Rubi for the transfer case alone- and 4.10s and the locker. If I were just wheeling on some dirt roads on the weekends- Sport with 3.73s all day long.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:17 PM   #48
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Take the sport. Then sign up for the off road 101 at rauche creek. Its about an hour and a half drive from NYC. Maybe two hours. On the way back, stop at OK4wd on 57 and order what you may need. You can probably still negotiate 33" tires in your purchase. LSD in the rear, a locker in the front and better gears might be the best upgrade early on.
THANKS! I will look them up!

Part of the issue is that I've been waiting since June already... still D1. Waiting another 2 months to order just the right rig puts me into the winter.

Once you hit D1, you can't change anything, which is how I ended up re-ordering when the dealer left out the Premium Soft Top, so LSD or 3.73s added to my order is not possible. If it were possible to change it, I'd still be able to jump to a Rubicon.

I'm happy to hear that many Sport owners are happy with their off-road capabilities, so I'll consider this one my starting point. If I run into issues next year, I can always trade it or upgrade it then.

At least I'll be more educated, thanks mainly to this forum, and my next year I'll have some real experience.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:24 PM   #49
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[QUOTE=panthermark;4100102]There is the issue right there. 3.21's and an open diff. Rubi or not, you will probably want to change that. If you get a Sport, get 3.73's and either factor LSD, or add an aftermarket LSD or locker.
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Point of this ramble is, 1) you need to buy what you want from the start - I am much happier with the Rubicon over the Sahara and 2) regardless of what you buy, you will be adding mods.
This and this. Sounds like you're determined not to cancel but you're digging yourself a hole.
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/3-2...st-209000.html

I feel your pain because without prior wheeling experience its hard to know exactly what you want or what features you'll use. I bought a base Sport and added a "pre-runner" type lift & suspension right out the gate. And now I rock crawl. DOH. Had I known I would've bought a Rubi for the transfer case alone. If you don't cancel- don't worry about what features you should add now. Get your Jeep on the trail, ride with someone on the trails you "can't" do, and figure out what you like. Then mod as you see fit. No matter what you buy you'll upgrade. Its a disease, that starts with the MOD bug. You're here so you've already caught it. Now all you can do is learn to live with it.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:25 PM   #50
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^Yeah, the problem with this question (and these threads in general) is that for someone to get the correct answer, they basically need to be able to see the future and tell us exactly how they will use the vehicle over the next 5 or 10 years.

If you are just doing fire roads, dirt trails, beach riding, and other light wheeling once every now and then.....you don't need a Rubi.

If you are going to get into heavier wheeling and rock crawling, you still don't "need" a Rubi (Rubi's have only been around for a decade, and people wheeled prior to 2003), but it makes much more sense to get e a Rubi up front so you have 4.10's, locker, edisco, and a 4:1 tranfer case from jump.....and covered under warranty.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:25 PM   #51
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I wouldn't worry too much about 3.21 vs 3.73. For a mostly stock Jeep either will be fine. If you end up going mod crazy you'd be regearing either way to help turn the bigger tires and all the extra vehicle weight.

Also it's a good feeling when a Rubicon owner envies your modded Sport...
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:33 PM   #52
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Don't take delivery...you'll go broke if you buy the parts and have to pay for installation

Plus you will kick yourself thinking "I should've gotten a Rubicon"

my 2 cents
the only thing i see that i would want on the rubi is the transfercase. I do not ever see myself upgrading to a better transfercase, ever. But that lower 4lo would be so nice.

The rubi tires are smaller than the tires i have. I dont even like the new rubi wheels...the old ones were cool though, but i went to 15s anyhow.

I don't really like a lot of stickers on my jeep. So i would be neutral about the rubi stickers. I wouldnt peel them but I wouldn't pay for them either.

I have rancho shocks already, fairly sure the rubi shocks are very very similar to rancho 5000s. I do know that the factory shocks on all wranglers are made by Tenneco, who owns Rancho and Monroe.......

I'd probably regear the rubi anyway, so suddenly those lockers are a lot cheaper.

So...I would not suggest anyone buy a rubi unless they were not planning on modifying it. It's a nice jeep, stock. But in alot of cases, you paid good money for a lot of stuff that you took off anyway...
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:34 PM   #53
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I wouldn't worry too much about 3.21 vs 3.73. For a mostly stock Jeep either will be fine. If you end up going mod crazy you'd be regearing either way to help turn the bigger tires and all the extra vehicle weight.

Also it's a good feeling when a Rubicon owner envies your modded Sport...
I would suggest getting the lowest gear available (highest number). Never know what you might do to it later. Lower gears give better power down low where you need it. Wranglers should have power down low. They are not intended to be high speed vehicles. In fact, i think it's a shame they give us no engine options whatsoever.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:45 PM   #54
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I would suggest getting the lowest gear available (highest number). Never know what you might do to it later. Lower gears give better power down low where you need it. Wranglers should have power down low. They are not intended to be high speed vehicles. In fact, i think it's a shame they give us no engine options whatsoever.
True but it's not something I'd worry too much about either. I have 3.73s and I still plan on eventually regearing. It's not unbearable right now (even with the old "dreaded" 3.8 engine) but would still be worth going higher while I have the diffs cracked open anyways for lockers. I'll probably go with 4.88s so even a Rubi's 4.10s wouldn't have been worth it to me.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:58 PM   #55
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I feel pretty good commenting in this thread considering I am one of those with a Sport with 3.21s and no LSD. I took my Jeep offroading a few weeks ago when I still had the SR-A's on. I went with a friend who has a built up YJ on 37s. My Jeep made it fine over everything, including washed out rocky trails, dirt fire roads and even muddy water holes. I had to go a bit slower and pick my lines more carefully than my friend did (he literally rolled over everything no problem), but the Sport never got stuck or even hesitated.

It's telling when that friend later told me he was worried I wouldn't get through a lot of the spots since the trails were extremely washed out, very rough and rocky and the mud holes were deeper than he remembered. He was impressed himself on what this "mall crawler" could do stock.

Now the only thing I will say about that experience was that there are a few things that I wish I did have:
1. Lower gears - crawling with 3.21's really sucks. It just crawls too fast to traverse a trail slowly and smoothly.
2. Bigger, more aggressive tires - I was extremely surprised at how well the SR-A's handled, but they still slipped in a few spots on rocks, and simply did not have the traction I needed in a few areas (despite never getting stuck). My 33 Duratracs have solved that problem easily.
3. Disconnects - the ride was very harsh due to being connected. Yes a Rubi would have solved that, but so would a set of $200 disconnects.

Other than those few complaints/desires, I am extremely happy with my Sport thus far.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:11 PM   #56
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You don't need quick discos. A ratchet and a wrench is all you need.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:28 PM   #57
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There is a larger issue here. What do you intend to do with your Jeep? Unless you plan to only mall crawl, purchasing a Jeep is not a reflex buy. So it's good that you are getting information now. I agree you would be better off re-ordering. Your dealer may be able to swap out the one you ordered with another dealer or make other arrangements. It's not just about money or labels. Doing upgrades is a challenge for experienced Jeep owners, let alone novices. Some things work well together and others don't.

Bottom line, you really need to decide what you want to do with your Jeep and then match the mods, if any are needed, to your use. This forum can help a bit, but if I were in your shoes I would re-order or do a swap. Even if you paid the dealer something extra you would be ahead of the game if you want full Rubicon compatibility. Good luck.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:32 PM   #58
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That sounds very encouraging. Par of the fun will be pushing the limit I guess. There is also a lot to be said about experience, the more you know, the more you'll know what you need.

About 25 years ago, I found out the hard way that good equipment alone is no substitute for driving experience, when I learned of the death of a friend on an icy road in upstate NY. After the accident, my friends and I couldn't imagine him going off the road at all because he had 4WD, which we thought at the time prevented such things.

We will never know for sure if his overconfidence in his 4WD system made him more aggressive that night, or if he took turns too fast thinking he was glued to the road, but it did teach me to put safe driving practices ahead of equipment.

My current vehicle is a Ford Explorer Sport Trac, which has decent 4WD (It's not AWD, but it's always on and kicks in whenever it needs it). When the weather is slick, I drive it as if I were driving a minivan with a baby in the back seat; slow and easy.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:33 PM   #59
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I knew nothing about jeeps when I bought my sport but loved having it until I started reading about rubicons. I thought about trading it in but eventually said screw it. I own a jeep and that's more than a lot of people can say. your sport will surprise you more than you think. while camping in the Rockies my friend in his 4x4 ranger slid off the edge of a ravine with nothing but loose rock and dirt on the side. I had to drive halfway into it to winch him out. he never got traction and had to be pulled all the way out while I drove around in reverse like a mountain goat. when I got to the top I wanted to get out and worship my jeep.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:34 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponPages View Post
Well, I must admit, before ordering my Jeep, I did almost no homework, so I ordered the basic Sport JKU, with no upgraded drivetrain options.

Once I ordered, I started educating myself by reading the forums. Now, I've got a bad case of Rubicon Envy.

Changing my order is not an option; so I've decided to just find out where and how to get the kind of upgrades that will cure some of my regrets.

Originally, I thought that the main difference was rock crawling, and since I could picture myself splashing in mud and snow more than rocks, I skipped out on the Rubicon.

Now that I've seen the light and learned about things like lockers, LSDs and Brake Lock Differentials, I'm wondering where and how I can get those features.

I've seen the links for the parts such as locking differentials from places like Quadratech, but I'm clueless about what types are best (air / elecro-magnetic / etc.)... and where I would have these installed. I'm in the New York City / New Jersey area (NJ is actually easier for me).

Anyone know where I should go... and what these kinds of upgrades will cost? At the least, I will want Brake Lock Differentials.

In the end, I'm sure I'll still envy the Rubicon, but hopefully I'll have SOME of it's capabilities.... when in doubt, I'll just get a nice winch and pull myself out of the mud.
Unless you plan on going FAR FAR away from NYC to offroad, you won't have anywhere to wheel where a rubicon is required.

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