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Old 08-20-2013, 01:35 PM   #61
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THANKS! I will look them up!

Part of the issue is that I've been waiting since June already... still D1. Waiting another 2 months to order just the right rig puts me into the winter.

Once you hit D1, you can't change anything, which is how I ended up re-ordering when the dealer left out the Premium Soft Top, so LSD or 3.73s added to my order is not possible. If it were possible to change it, I'd still be able to jump to a Rubicon.

I'm happy to hear that many Sport owners are happy with their off-road capabilities, so I'll consider this one my starting point. If I run into issues next year, I can always trade it or upgrade it then.

At least I'll be more educated, thanks mainly to this forum, and my next year I'll have some real experience.
The dealer can just eat the order. The vehicle will arrive, and they will just sell it on their lot like any other wrangler. You should happily order you a more expensive rubicon.

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Old 08-20-2013, 01:38 PM   #62
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There is a larger issue here. What do you intend to do with your Jeep? Unless you plan to only mall crawl, purchasing a Jeep is not a reflex buy. So it's good that you are getting information now....
Realistically, I'm in the New York City area, so I will most likely only get a few chances a year to take it off-road. My most likely destination will be the NJ Pine Barrens. They hold a Jeep Jamboree event there in March or April. I will definitely go to that.

Since those kinds of events are big deals, so there are lots of spotters and Jeeps with tow hooks if I get in a jam. I think I'll start there. If that leads to finding more (unsupervised) trails in the area, I may or may not need to gear up.

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Old 08-20-2013, 01:46 PM   #63
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A wise man once told me "pick a horse and ride it." Just decide, be happy with your decision for awhile, and, if you eventually realize you want something else, make a change. But for now, just decide!
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:54 PM   #64
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A wise man once told me "pick a horse and ride it." Just decide, be happy with your decision for awhile, and, if you eventually realize you want something else, make a change. But for now, just decide!
Wise words indeed. I will keep it.

Next year, if I outgrow it, which is not likely, I will know exactly what I need. By then I will have some idea of winter driving and I'll hit the Jamboree in the NJ Pine Barrens and see where it takes me.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:57 PM   #65
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Wise words indeed. I will keep it.

Next year, if I outgrow it, which is not likely, I will know exactly what I need. By then I will have some idea of winter driving and I'll hit the Jamboree in the NJ Pine Barrens and see where it takes me.
Have fun! I have a Rubi and, while I am analytically convinced it is worth the extra cost (especially considering resale), I sometimes wonder whether I'd be happier if I'd just gotten a Sport and paid it off sooner. You can always second-guess yourself.

But, whatever you get, when you take the top down or panels out and head out into the woods, you won't be second-guessing ANYTHING. I don't care if it is a busted YJ with a 4 banger and a Honda fart pipe for an exhaust.
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:58 PM   #66
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I just picked the Rubicon because I'm CDO (OCD spelled in alphabetical order) and would think about my decision over and over and over and over...etc...

Also picked it for the features... lol.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:06 PM   #67
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True but it's not something I'd worry too much about either. I have 3.73s and I still plan on eventually regearing. It's not unbearable right now (even with the old "dreaded" 3.8 engine) but would still be worth going higher while I have the diffs cracked open anyways for lockers. I'll probably go with 4.88s so even a Rubi's 4.10s wouldn't have been worth it to me.
Just keep in mind that you are talking about different engines, and maybe (and if so, more importantly) different auto trannys.

3.73's + 3.6 + WA580 or a lot different thatn 3.73's + 3.8 + 42RLE (assuming we are talking autos).

Here are the Final Drive ratio's on 32" wheels. Sorry it is so hard to read. This is very hard to format.


Tranny 42RLE
Axle 3.73 4.10 4.56 4.88 5.13

1st 10.59 11.64 12.95 13.86 14.57
2nd 5.86 6.44 7.16 7.66 8.05
3rd 3.73 4.10 4.56 4.88 5.13
4th 2.57 2.83 3.15 3.37 3.54
5th - - - - -


Tranny W5A580
Axle 3.21 3.55 3.73 4.10 4.56

1st 11.52 12.74 13.39 14.72 16.37
2nd 7.03 7.77 8.17 8.98 9.99
3rd 4.53 5.01 5.26 5.78 6.43
4th 3.21 3.55 3.73 4.10 4.56
5th 2.66 2.95 3.10 3.40 3.78

4.88 on the 42RLE falls between 3.73's and 4.10's on the WA580. 4.10's on the 42RLE are close to 3.21's on the WA580.

The need to regear on the new auto isn't as big, so getting the right gear ratio up front can save a lot of money down the line.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:13 PM   #68
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I just picked the Rubicon because I'm CDO (OCD spelled in alphabetical order) .
I'll be using that line- thanks.

Realistically, I'm in the New York City area, so I will most likely only get a few chances a year to take it off-road. My most likely destination will be the NJ Pine Barrens. They hold a Jeep Jamboree event there in March or April. I will definitely go to that.

Realism is a great thing. Get that puppy from the dealer, take her out when you can, and enjoy! You'll be amazed what your Jeep can do right out the gate- and what you can do if you want more.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:35 PM   #69
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On stock SRA's?!?!?
Yep - and I only feel comfortable airing down to about 20psi. I wish I could go further, but I am worried about losing a bead.

modfever makes us all want to just go wild, and sometimes even justify it with "If I don't get this, I can barely make it down a gravel road"... but it's good for the OP to know that a stock Sport really can get a lot of places -especially so if you don't panic the first time your front tire comes down off a good size rock and you feel and hear the frame say hello to the rock.

That, by the way, is why my wife won't go wheeling with me any more.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:15 PM   #70
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I wanted a Jeep two years ago, test drove an MW3 and liked it but didn't get it then.

Thought about it for 6 months and called the Credit Union to get a loan- went to the salesman (this is through the PX and Enchange New Car Sales) with a loan check for the price of a Cosmo Blue Rubi, he wanted $500 down payment and wouldn't take the check. Indignant I walked out and bought a loaded BMW X1 35i.

10A Rubicon released...

Sold the BMW- lost $4000 and ordered the 10A (one of four allocated to ENCS).

Granted, the X1 to Rubi is a much farther leap than Sport to Rubi but, get what you want.

I'm on several other car forums and anytime trucks are discussed the threads always leads to the same answer- a diesel 4x4, for a fun track car the thread always leads to the same answer Miata.

In this case (the exception to the above rule) is any Jeep is better than not...
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:33 PM   #71
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I think it really comes down to what you are going to do with it and what you want out of it. I made the rubicon decision mostly because I'm not going for an extreme build. I'm keeping my TJ so when that finally goes, I'll have a real good platform for a nice mild build that can still function as a daily driver. I like having the 44 up front and the 4:1 t-case.
And if you buy a sport, and modify it, it's still a sport. After looking for used ones, there aren't that many used rubicon's out there so theoretically rubicons would justify a higher resale. But then again, no one knows if the market will be flooded with 2013/2014 jkur's 5 years down the road.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:55 AM   #72
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The OP asked for advice and got lots. He appears well reconciled to have Rubi Envy for a very long time.
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:42 AM   #73
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The OP asked for advice and got lots. He appears well reconciled to have Rubi Envy for a very long time.
Indeed. I will see where my Sport takes me (and where it can't) and then decide if or when I will trade it in.

Even if I find that my Sport is still capable of all the trails in my area, I will definitely still envy the ease in which the Rubicon can tackle the same trails, and the fact that they can do even more.

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Old 08-22-2013, 06:05 PM   #74
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I wanted a Jeep two years ago, test drove an MW3 and liked it but didn't get it then.

Thought about it for 6 months and called the Credit Union to get a loan- went to the salesman (this is through the PX and Enchange New Car Sales) with a loan check for the price of a Cosmo Blue Rubi, he wanted $500 down payment and wouldn't take the check. Indignant I walked out and bought a loaded BMW X1 35i.

10A Rubicon released...

Sold the BMW- lost $4000 and ordered the 10A (one of four allocated to ENCS).

Granted, the X1 to Rubi is a much farther leap than Sport to Rubi but, get what you want.

I'm on several other car forums and anytime trucks are discussed the threads always leads to the same answer- a diesel 4x4, for a fun track car the thread always leads to the same answer Miata.

In this case (the exception to the above rule) is any Jeep is better than not...
What about the 90% or so of men who cant get into a miata? Anyone over 4 feet tall it seems.... im 6'1 and even the new mx5s have my knees against the dash and i cant close the door.
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:11 PM   #75
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Yep - and I only feel comfortable airing down to about 20psi. I wish I could go further, but I am worried about losing a bead.

modfever makes us all want to just go wild, and sometimes even justify it with "If I don't get this, I can barely make it down a gravel road"... but it's good for the OP to know that a stock Sport really can get a lot of places -especially so if you don't panic the first time your front tire comes down off a good size rock and you feel and hear the frame say hello to the rock.

That, by the way, is why my wife won't go wheeling with me any more.
I went wheeling with stock tires on an x model before. Most people waaay underestimate them.

You can easily air down lower and not lose a bead.

I really only got 33s for the extra sidewall for sand.
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:57 PM   #76
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2 years ago I had to quit riding my Nitrous powered Race Bike. I had to find something I could do on 4 wheels that was slow and fun. I found Jeeping. I bought a 1992 2.5 stick shift YJ. Then I found out about rubicon's on my first trail run. LOL was I surprised. The guys on the run told me to enjoy my YJ and then decide if I really needed a Rubi. I found out that I didn't but wanted one any way. So I bought an 04 TJ Rubicon. I got the Mod Bug and have had a blast. But I found out something. The resale on a Rubicon is all out of proportion to it's ability. It's the Mystique of the name. So my health is getting a bit worse and I needed a smoother ride and something I can take the grandkids in. So here I am on the JK section with a new 13 JKUR. The point to this ramble is Yeah you can put gears and lockers in the D30 you have in front but you'll always be thinking it's a 30, is it gonna blow? But You'll get the mod bug and it really won't matter cause you'll be on 37's and putting in a Pro Rock diff with the ARB's. It is the natural progression. You made a mistake. You want to keep the dealer happy. I understand that. It's your word at stake. So maybe it cost a bit more in the long run but heck most of my friends have taken out their D44 rubicon axles and put in bigger ones to handle the 37 and 40 tires they now run. Have a blast. Drive the wheels off and learn your jeep and what part of the experience excites you. By then you will be much smarter and you know what? You'll still redo things later. Have some fun. In 2 years I am in 3 jeeps now and the new one should be under the knife before it hits 1000 miles. It's a disease.
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:46 PM   #77
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Well said, Gunner. Why do we do that?
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:17 PM   #78
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Well said. My JKU just left the factory today. It should arrive in about 10 days.

It's late in the season, so ordering another will mean missing another 8 weeks, so I am content knowing all JKs have BLDs and that stock sport models are still pretty capable for the places near me... Perhaps next year I will have a better idea of what my limits are and decide if I will upgrade or trade.
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:42 PM   #79
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:09 AM   #80
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Well said. My JKU just left the factory today. It should arrive in about 10 days.

It's late in the season, so ordering another will mean missing another 8 weeks, so I am content knowing all JKs have BLDs and that stock sport models are still pretty capable for the places near me... Perhaps next year I will have a better idea of what my limits are and decide if I will upgrade or trade.
Blds? You really want a computer making the decisions for you. I will pass on that one
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:05 AM   #81
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Blds? You really want a computer making the decisions for you. I will pass on that one
I live in the New York City area, so it may be that I may never even find the kinds of off-roading situations that will need lockers. There is an annual Jeep Jamboree in the NJ Pine Barrens in April. Unlike some of their other locations that require lockers, their only requirement for signing up is tow hooks, so I'm not likely to need them for the kinds of trails I'll be hitting.

So, although I know the Rubicon could eat up those trails with ease, I'll be in a large group and in the event I get stuck, there will be countless Jeeps along the path to pull me out. Because those trails are likely to be the only (legal) trails in my area, I'll base my decision to upgrade to lockers... or trade it in on how well I fare at the event. If there is any struggle, I'll know for sure that I can't risk doing those trails alone after the event... so I will surely upgrade or trade it in.

So, worst case, I go to the event... get stuck... have a few laughs as they pull me out and start making plans.

Other than that, the main reason I'm happy to hear about the BLDs is that it will make winter driving safer. Until I posted this thread, I thought they were an option I wasn't getting, so I thought I had missed out on any hope for decent off-roading or snow handling.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:20 AM   #82
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Other than that, the main reason I'm happy to hear about the BLDs is that it will make winter driving safer.
BLD does not make winter driving safer. BLD is the offroad function of Traction Control. And yes, every Wrangler has traction control.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:54 AM   #83
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That's good to know. From what I have seen in some demonstration videos, BLDs are no match for lockers, but they have the ability to give at least some traction in cases where you would've had none... in other words, better than nothing.

In some of the videos I saw, the driver intentionally took angles where one wheel was airborne. Normally, in such cases the airborne wheel would get 100% of the spin. The wheel spin nearly stops (at the expense of brakes), and the other wheel (potentially) gets the power (assuming it is now the wheel with the least friction).

My Sport is now on the rail (KZM), so I'm now quite excited that I can finally take delivery and see where it leads me. As a New Yorker, 99% of the time will be Mall Crawling, but I will seek out off-road trails as soon as possible, then I'll know what kind of traction I'll need.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:59 AM   #84
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I'm sure it's been said already, but don't take delivery.

Jeeps will sell so don't feel bad for the dealer. If he can't sell it, he can trade it for a hard top with another dealer down south. Order the one you want. This is an expensive purchase and one you actually have control over. No need to compromise here. You can still mod stuff just the same starting with a Rubicon vs. a Sport.

The difference is you will actually LOVE your vehicle and won't have any regrets or "what if's" whatsoever.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:12 AM   #85
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Yes, it's been said quite a bit, but I've weighed both sides and I'm comfortable with my choice.

My worst case scenario isn't that bad, which is to find out that the trails near me are too much to handle... then I either upgrade or trade in.

In my best case, I may just learn that the stock Sport is capable of every trail I will ever encounter. The New York City area isn't the best place to find (legal) trails.

One major factor is the wait. I've already been waiting since June. Another 8 week wait will drive me crazy and I'll miss the best part of the season.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:52 AM   #86
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2 years ago I had to quit riding my Nitrous powered Race Bike. I had to find something I could do on 4 wheels that was slow and fun. I found Jeeping. I bought a 1992 2.5 stick shift YJ. Then I found out about rubicon's on my first trail run. LOL was I surprised. The guys on the run told me to enjoy my YJ and then decide if I really needed a Rubi. I found out that I didn't but wanted one any way. So I bought an 04 TJ Rubicon. I got the Mod Bug and have had a blast. But I found out something. The resale on a Rubicon is all out of proportion to it's ability. It's the Mystique of the name. So my health is getting a bit worse and I needed a smoother ride and something I can take the grandkids in. So here I am on the JK section with a new 13 JKUR. The point to this ramble is Yeah you can put gears and lockers in the D30 you have in front but you'll always be thinking it's a 30, is it gonna blow? But You'll get the mod bug and it really won't matter cause you'll be on 37's and putting in a Pro Rock diff with the ARB's. It is the natural progression. You made a mistake. You want to keep the dealer happy. I understand that. It's your word at stake. So maybe it cost a bit more in the long run but heck most of my friends have taken out their D44 rubicon axles and put in bigger ones to handle the 37 and 40 tires they now run. Have a blast. Drive the wheels off and learn your jeep and what part of the experience excites you. By then you will be much smarter and you know what? You'll still redo things later. Have some fun. In 2 years I am in 3 jeeps now and the new one should be under the knife before it hits 1000 miles. It's a disease.
My story is very similar.. I used to ride street bikes (way too fast) and have spent my fair share of time at the street races will all kinds of turbo/nitrous/blower cars. Now that I'm in my thirties I needed an adrenaline fix/tinkering hobby that was less risky and the wife could participate in. We tried dirtbikes (I still ride offroad) but the wife gets tired quick an cant keep up. So... Jeep it was. The wife/dogs can ride along and we all have a good time together.

I chose not to spend the $$ on a new Rubicon because with my history of modding/upgrading my toys I knew the dana 44's/suspension and countless other parts would soon be replaced anyway. Besides the better t-case you get with a rubi I just couldn't justify the cost..

Sometimes I think a vette or hotrod would have been better because I wouldn't have to drive 2+ hours in a gas guzzling Jeep just to have fun with it.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:56 AM   #87
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Yes, it's been said quite a bit, but I've weighed both sides and I'm comfortable with my choice.

My worst case scenario isn't that bad, which is to find out that the trails near me are too much to handle... then I either upgrade or trade in.

In my best case, I may just learn that the stock Sport is capable of every trail I will ever encounter. The New York City area isn't the best place to find (legal) trails.

One major factor is the wait. I've already been waiting since June. Another 8 week wait will drive me crazy and I'll miss the best part of the season.
Man, I think you have a great outlook on things! And congrats on the new Jeep!
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:25 PM   #88
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Blds? You really want a computer making the decisions for you. I will pass on that one
Hopefully you dont have an automatic wrangler... hopefully...

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