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Old 05-08-2009, 08:53 PM   #1
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Dealer says half safe oil is OK.

At just before 12K miles I checked the oil and found it near the bottom of the safe zone and wondered how it got all the way down there. I topped it off and had the dealer change my oil. I went to Maine and on the way home I checked the oil. It was down a half of a quart. I went to my dealer and told them my oil was down a half a quart in 500 miles. I said there are only a few explanations possible. It leaked out, it blew through the engine or it was never in there to begin with. They put it up on the lift and everything underneath was clean. They looked at the oil level and said that the oil level was normal. I asked the service rep to describe what he meant by normal. He said right in the middle of the safe zone. And he said that was normal. Nothing was wrong.

I said let me see if I got this straight. I bring my jeep in for an oil change. You put in the recommended amount of oil and I get it back only half way safe instead of all the way safe, is that what you are saying? He said yes. He said that if I paid for an extra half quart of oil that they would be happy to fill it to the top of the safe zone. I said that I would have to verify what he was saying to determine who will pay for the half of a quart.

Now, it has been a long time since I changed my own oil but my recollection of changing my oil is that you put the recommended number of quarts in, check the oil and it indicates at the top of the safe zone not the middle. This is where the forum comes in. On an oil change with a new oil filter, with 6 quarts of oil which is the crank case capacity, should the dip stick indicate the top of the safe zone or the middle??

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Old 05-08-2009, 09:00 PM   #2
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ya, it should be to the top.

don't tell me at 12k was the first oil change??

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Old 05-08-2009, 09:05 PM   #3
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Oil change at the dealer? They give you some free ones?

I let the dealer fix my warranty stuff, but otherwise the gold plated tools I have to fund keeps me away.

Times is tight right now but FILLING the fluids (including the oil during a change) is standard. I think they are pinching pennies and you should just stay away (unless it's free of course, then just buy a couple of quarts to top it off when they get done screwing you over).
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:11 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by jpdocdave View Post
ya, it should be to the top.

don't tell me at 12k was the first oil change??
No, it gets oil every time it asks for it!

I always service my vehicles on schedule A. I'm one of those that believes in not over servicing a vehicle. I have had many vehicles with high mileage that I purchased new and not once a vehicle that pushed oil prematurely. Besides, click and clack have proved the theory pretty well.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:14 PM   #5
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Ask them if their head is only half-full.....

6 quarts is the capacity, that should be the quantity of oil you put in the vehicle.
An important rule of thumb is to always remember that believe it or not, there can be slight tolerance problems in the manufacture and accuracy of the dipsticks themselves. (Hence the reason for the "SAFE AREAS" on most dipsticks.

A rule of thumb we always use in engineering and aviation, is to put the exact amount of lubricant, wait, then MARK THE DIPSTICK with a file at the line that equates 6 FULL QUARTS OF OIL on YOUR dipstick. That way you have a proper control baseline for all future fills.

Then you will always know what "full" really is.

Don't let them short change you!!!

Engine Oil with Filter
3.8 Liter Engine (SAE 5W-20, API Certified Engine Oil) 5.7 Liters
5.7 Liters = 6.02312279 US quarts.

Hope this helps.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:31 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by stevens243 View Post
Oil change at the dealer? They give you some free ones?

I let the dealer fix my warranty stuff, but otherwise the gold plated tools I have to fund keeps me away.

Times is tight right now but FILLING the fluids (including the oil during a change) is standard. I think they are pinching pennies and you should just stay away (unless it's free of course, then just buy a couple of quarts to top it off when they get done screwing you over).
Funny you should joke about me letting the dealership change my oil. I signed this contract with the dealer that gives me free tires for the life of the vehicle to the original owner. All I have to do to continue the contract is tire rotations and oil changes every 6K at the dealer (and continue the vehicle warranty service). They tried to say it was every 3K miles but that issue was resolved and they had since changed the new contracts to 3K miles but my vehicle is "grandfathered". I calculated the cost of the tires vs the cost of the service and it looked like the cost of the service was cheaper than the new sneakers based on 60K miles on the old sneakers before they need changing. So far I'm still convinced that it was a good deal.
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:43 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by AndyLA View Post
Ask them if their head is only half-full.....

6 quarts is the capacity, that should be the quantity of oil you put in the vehicle.
An important rule of thumb is to always remember that believe it or not, there can be slight tolerance problems in the manufacture and accuracy of the dipsticks themselves. (Hence the reason for the "SAFE AREAS" on most dipsticks.

A rule of thumb we always use in engineering and aviation, is to put the exact amount of lubricant, wait, then MARK THE DIPSTICK with a file at the line that equates 6 FULL QUARTS OF OIL on YOUR dipstick. That way you have a proper control baseline for all future fills.

Then you will always know what "full" really is.

Don't let them short change you!!!

Engine Oil with Filter
3.8 Liter Engine (SAE 5W-20, API Certified Engine Oil) 5.7 Liters
5.7 Liters = 6.02312279 US quarts.

Hope this helps.
Thanks Andy,

I'm wondering how I will check this? Maybe an unscheduled oil change at 3K instead of the usual 6K interval and let the dealer continue from there after another 3K?
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Old 05-09-2009, 05:48 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by jk'n View Post
Funny you should joke about me letting the dealership change my oil. I signed this contract with the dealer that gives me free tires for the life of the vehicle to the original owner. All I have to do to continue the contract is tire rotations and oil changes every 6K at the dealer (and continue the vehicle warranty service). They tried to say it was every 3K miles but that issue was resolved and they had since changed the new contracts to 3K miles but my vehicle is "grandfathered". I calculated the cost of the tires vs the cost of the service and it looked like the cost of the service was cheaper than the new sneakers based on 60K miles on the old sneakers before they need changing. So far I'm still convinced that it was a good deal.
Same deal at my dealer. Didn't know if that was a Jeep/Chrysler thing or a local dealer thing. They also specify every 3,000 for the oil changes. I do agree based on 60,000 and as long as they hold up their end of the deal, it works out about even or in my favor.

Plus I'm pretty bad about tire rotation and end up kinda screwing up my tires. So this will keep me on track!

BTW I had a new, in 1985, Subaru wagon that would go through a quart of oil every 1000 miles. Had it in initially with the dealer and they put me on program to check the oil etc., but ultimately that said all was fine. So I just lived with it and drove that Subaru for 140,000 miles and never had any other issues, just the 1000 mile oil add.
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Old 05-09-2009, 08:37 AM   #9
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You know that the $ most dealerships make with you on that tire deal will usually pay for your tires? Unless you talk them into hooking you up with your 33/35's when you lift it (don't count on it), it's not worth the extra $ you spend vs. doing it yourself. I used to work at a dealership in AZ that did that- $50 oil change, non-synthetic! Or $18 and a little bit of oil on your fingers- you do the math Mark W.
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Old 05-09-2009, 12:15 PM   #10
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The funny thing about the contract was that there were two check boxes. One for a new car that said maintain the vehicle warranty and rotate the tires every 6K. Then another check box that was for a used vehicle that said oil changes every 3K and tire rotation every 6K. I did some quick math using the oil change every 6K and it worked out better for me to let them do the oil changes and get the free sneakers. They will replace the tires with the same ones on the vehicle. At first the dealer insisted that I had to do oil changes every 3K until I threatened that any law suite that would result would be a class action lawsuit assuming they were telling all of their customers the same thing. Eventually they backed off of that position. At my last service I was informed that because of me they had rewritten the contracts. They now state oil changes every 3K miles for new or used vehicles. The math on that doesn't work out as well as it seems a break even situation.
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Participate in life....Keep movin'....Go there....JK'n it.........Do it! Jeep #1: Red Rock 08 JK Rubicon 4dr, 6 sp manual, Stock Mud Tires, MyGIG Upgrade, Hard Top, after sale BestTop SunRider Soft Top, Congo Cage Rack, Mopar slush mats Jeep #2 Black 08 JK Rubicon 2dr, 6 sp manual, both tops, some chrome...uggg (my wife's jeep) Jeep #3 White 92 YJ (my son's jeep) A great quote from a good friend: "All hail click clack and master jk'n." Click and clack are my idols!
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Old 05-09-2009, 05:07 PM   #11
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The thought occurred to me: I wonder how much money a dealer could reap per month filling every car to the middle of the safe zone instead of putting in the crank case capacity but then charging for the full crank case capacity? Then they could claim: gee I thought that mid safe zone was meaning full.
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:10 AM   #12
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Hah- not enough to pay for the occasional engine going kersplat Mark W.
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:16 AM   #13
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Couple of things. Usually a car is not completely empty of oil before the new oil is put in—it takes a while to really drain one. The second is that you may want to allow for some expansion. Same with filling tires when cold, check the pressure on a hot highway after driving and they will be a few lbs fuller. The oil will also increase in volume as it expands. Too much oil can cause problems.
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:56 AM   #14
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^ Yes, and that was all taken into account when the OEM designed the dipstick- Mark W.
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:39 PM   #15
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^ Agreed....Mark is 100% accurate. 6 quarts is always 6 quarts when you are discussing lubricant capacity for a given engineered application ---- we are not factoring kinematic viscosity, coefficients of thermal expansion, etc.....just the raw quantity.
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:35 PM   #16
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Smile Dealer has technichian glitch, oil now fully safe!

When I went to the dealer last friday the service writer was not the usual one. The one I got was younger and did not have the customer skills that I am used to. He drew a line which he was not willing to cross and after checking my oil and giving me the explanation that half safe was OK, he sent me on my way. The more I thought about it the more ticked I got over the weekend. I called Chrysler on Monday and arranged to have the half safe theory tested at a different dealership to see if it stood up on its own two feet or if I was getting a line of...well...we all know what that is called.

The more I thought about it the more I thought I ought to go back to the dealer and speak with the service manager. I went back today asked to speak with him in private. We went outside and I explained that the general consensus on the web and even at a different local dealership was that when drained, oil filter changed and the crank case capacity of 6 quarts put in it should not be half safe but full safe. I explained that the only way the engine could be down a half quart in a few hundred miles would be that it leaked out, it blew through the engine, the dip stick is not accurate or it was never put in there to begin with. He went into the garage to speak with the technician and when he returned he called up my service history of the two service calls. After looking at the records he said in a non too happy voice that there was in fact a problem. He asked me for my keys and said the oil will be topped off. He said that the technician thought the capacity was the same as the 3..8 litre engine in some other model (a passenger car) and had put in the wrong amount (5 quarts). I can only surmise that the technician must have checked the oil and it being at the low end of the safe zone added a half quart. I'm going to have to dig up the first two service receipts to see if it shows 5 instead of 6 quarts.

This is the fifth new vehicle that I have purchased from this family of dealerships and that is what I began with when talking to the service manager. They have been good to me and I wanted to try and determine what this problem actually was even if the amount of oil is right at least I will know what to expect in the future. I think this tactic kept him from going on the defensive. Any way, the problem is now solved and I am happy with how the service manager treated me. I'm glad that I didn't stay on the defensive also because I have been treated well in the purchases of new cars (and jeep) at the dealer and would like to continue to do business with them.
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Old 05-13-2009, 07:16 AM   #17
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Good for you. It takes a mature individual to remain confident & decisive while not immediately alienating & accosting others. It is also good to see that the dealership identified the problem (human error - go figure) and was willing to make it right. Sometimes egos and liability get the way of pure honesty and sometime a mistake is really just a mistake and not a conspiracy.

Still think that a higher order of training needs to be done if the technicians do not possess the knowledge it requires to perform their job function and/or they are too ignorant to be able to read the oil fill requirements for each engine.

It isn't just dealerships that I would blame, but I would have higher expectations of service & awareness since it is THEIR LINE OF VEHICLES! ---

Thanks for sharing...
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Old 05-13-2009, 07:53 AM   #18
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Shoot- every dealership I've worked at only gave you oil after you ID'ed the vehicle you were working on, or gave them (parts) the RO (Repair Order)- surprised they let that happen. I'd write "6 qts., please!" in white-out on the oil cap, just as a shine-on for the guy Mark W.
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:25 PM   #19
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6 QUARTS PLEASE:



Like your new avatar, Mark....
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:29 AM   #20
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Thanks, Andy Finally got a couple pics of the monster. Just put wheel spacers on last night- no more rub Looks mean, drives big
How's the trail limo? Mark W.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:57 PM   #21
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Not to revive an old thread, but I just did my own oil change and it took 5 1/2 qts and its 3/4's up the safe fill allowing for settle overnite. Filters must vary in size, because theres no way it will safely take 6qt
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:38 PM   #22
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They do vary in size. I use the motor craft filter, it's actually made by ford but it fits right. I chose it specifically because it's bigger. Larger volume=more filtering material. Have you started it? Cuz once you start it oil will stay in the filter. It won't completely drain out. I use exactly 6 quarts. Here is the comparison of filter size. It doesn't look like much but it actually makes a difference
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:44 PM   #23
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They do vary in size. I use the motor craft filter, it's actually made by ford but it fits right. I chose it specifically because it's bigger. Larger volume=more filtering material. Have you started it? Cuz once you start it oil will stay in the filter. It won't completely drain out. I use exactly 6 quarts. Here is the comparison of filter size. It doesn't look like much but it actually makes a difference
Lol, ya ive started it. Im all set now. There is still settle amounts of oil of the internals etc... That drain down after sitting awhile. Great pic, makes sense why so many peeps vary in oil capacities. I use a Fram Ultra or Tough Gaurd, whatever is in stock between the two.
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:56 PM   #24
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JKU Engine oil Dip stick 3.6L VVT

JKU, 3.6 VVT, 4 door hard top
I changed out the factory oil for Mobil-1 at 300 miles
6 quarts. I am puzzled with the dip stick. The Yellow 'Engine Oil' finger
grip has a flexible wire with a 1 inch metal blob on the end. No graduations
anywhere, so I cant tell if it is full, half full or needs oil as I am accustomed to in the last 4 jeeps. So what's with this dummy dip stick?how is it read. I also have an Engine oil light up on the dash, but when that comes on it is probably to late. What happened to the flexible metal strip with the graduations for checking oil levels.

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