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Old 07-11-2013, 08:39 AM   #31
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Yeah, that's what I had included. TTL and all...along with the max tow package.
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Originally Posted by MATT0404 View Post
Are you working a trade or currently leasing another vehicle?
I'm driving a 2001 Camry at the moment...extremely ready to move on.

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Old 07-11-2013, 08:57 AM   #32
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At the risk of sounding like an endorsement, I got my best Houston deal at River Oaks, Mark Gusman too. He's the Internet guy. Very easy to work with. He even tweaked my trade in numbers for me a little so when I presented the paperwork to my wife, she could buy in. Shh, our secret. Mildly dishonest I know but my '01 Cherokee had turned into a money pit and I was delirious with "Wrangler Fever".

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Old 07-11-2013, 09:19 AM   #33
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Reece, that is a good one. I went to River Oaks as well but didn't talk to mark the experience seemed a little forced with very little give. The sales man actually told me what did you expect from a dealership in this area.
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Old 07-11-2013, 09:30 AM   #34
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Yeah, that's what I had included. TTL and all...along with the max tow package.

I'm driving a 2001 Camry at the moment...extremely ready to move on.
Ah! I see. Sorry for the confusion. TTL will easily add a couple thousand. You're getting a good price.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:50 AM   #35
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Duck: Yeah, they turn a lot of Jeeps there. At one point Mark passed me off to one of his salesman underlings and he almost killed the deal. I copped the guy out to Mark, got back on track and got some more extra stuff thrown in. I felt some allegiance to them since I was trading in a Cherokee they had evaluated as OK but then went bad on me. They took the hickey on it, if not monetarily, at least morally.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:54 AM   #36
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Mark at River Oaks in Houston is a great salesman. Gave us a great deal on our 2013 JKR. He was a joy to work with, and when we found scratched panes in our jeep and a squeky grab handle (the thing in front of the passenger seat), he set all that right and replaced them.
I had a great experience with him.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:01 AM   #37
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Save yourself the trouble. Go to true car and fill everything out. Let the dealers who want your business call YOU.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:07 AM   #38
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:05 PM   #39
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I had to sign a non-disclosure agreement with my dealer on my sale price. No kidding.

I can only say that the Edmunds market price is very realistic. BTW, I had no trade, used their financing (very competitive with credit union), and I put 15% cash down. Trade-ins make negotiating price a PITA.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:12 PM   #40
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Trade-ins make negotiating price a PITA.
Why? What if you reveal that you'll be trading a car in after you agree on a price?
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:17 PM   #41
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Glad we have Jeeps galore here in Houston that makes me smile now if we can only teach the MALLCRAWLERS to waive... I passed at least 7 and not a waive one lady rolled down her window and asked if she knew me...
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:47 PM   #42
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Glad we have Jeeps galore here in Houston that makes me smile now if we can only teach the MALLCRAWLERS to waive... I passed at least 7 and not a waive one lady rolled down her window and asked if she knew me...
I was on the highway next to a Jeep with stickers all over it including another jeep forum so I thought for sure he'd wave. Nothing... I was shocked.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:49 PM   #43
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See it all day everyday, we need to make a club and first rule of said club is YOU MUST WAIVE AT FELLOW JEEP!
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:58 PM   #44
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Yeah, might as well hijack. I'm thinking Edmunds has run his course. Same experience for me on the "WAVE" here in Houston. I was getting nothing so I stopped and then a kid in an old beat-up, ragged-out TJ waved at me in my slick new '13. Made me think...hmm...Now I'm waving at everybody whether they see me or not or whether they return it or not. A simple wave costs me nothing and who knows...
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:10 PM   #45
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Ok back to the purpose of the thread.. what was the purpose of the thread...
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:17 PM   #46
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Ok back to the purpose of the thread.. what was the purpose of the thread...
Drinking a Wave at Pappasitos?

Seriously, get one.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:36 PM   #47
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Damn, must be nice...
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:08 PM   #48
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Why? What if you reveal that you'll be trading a car in after you agree on a price?
If you reveal later, it has been my experience that all your negotiations up to that point are off the table. That's a real good way to piss off your salesman and the sales manager. Best to reveal up front and then get an idea on what they think the car is worth.

Cash is king. A trade-in is a variable they have no control over. At the very least they want to guarantee they won't lose money on the trade-in, so they will seriously low ball you. It's not so bad on cars they can flip, but still worse for you than if you sold it on Craigslist.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:11 PM   #49
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If you reveal later, it has been my experience that all your negotiations up to that point are off the table. That's a real good way to piss off your salesman and the sales manager. Best to reveal up front and then get an idea on what they think the car is worth.

Cash is king. A trade-in is a variable they have no control over. At the very least they want to guarantee they won't lose money on the trade-in, so they will seriously low ball you. It's not so bad on cars they can flip, but still worse for you than if you sold it on Craigslist.
Not to be too disrespectful, but I don't think you are well researched or experienced with this.

First off, cash is not king. That's an old myth and no longer true.
The trade is part of the equation and a profit center for the dealer. They definitely have control.

To successfully buy a vehicle, you should negotiate each of the "big 3" separately: New Car Price, Financing, and Trade.... all on their own and not as a whole.

Know what you need for each piece and work towards that on all 3. Don't be a 'payment buyer' and don't negotiate them as a whole.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:17 PM   #50
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All I know is I just sold one of my trucks for about $3,000 more than I could have realistically traded it in for. I don't know about you, but I would never trade in a vehicle. I know not everyone has another vehicle to drive until you buy a new car, but selling your vehicle privately is better than trading it in. I would much rather have the additional $3,000 to put down on the Jeep then settle for the trade in value.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:20 PM   #51
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also keep in mind, your going to have dealerships around your area like in my area of south florida... they have pricing on current 2013 sport model in the lot for almost $2k or more regular msrp. when i spoke to one of these guys in regards to giving me the invoice price. he still quoted the same about OTD of $31,XXX yet when i discussed with him i can get a 2014 for about $29 to $30 OTD about 2 hours away and they'll honor treadlightly...

he immediately got pissed and out came the usual salesman mumbo jumbo... " Well if you can get it for that price, then thats a steal. go get it there" my response was i will..

just stay firm with your negotiating Someone will work with you.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:22 PM   #52
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All I know is I just sold one of my trucks for about $3,000 more than I could have realistically traded it in for. I don't know about you, but I would never trade in a vehicle. I know not everyone has another vehicle to drive until you buy a new car, but selling your vehicle privately is better than trading it in. I would much rather have the additional $3,000 to put down on the Jeep then settle for the trade in value.
That depends on state and what you're trading in. For example, in Texas, you need to get 6.25% more for your trade by selling it in order to make it worth selling on your own. The reason is that you only pay sales tax on the difference between the trade and new purchase.

So, if you have a trade that you could get $10K for a trade, that's $625 in savings on sales tax. The more expensive the car, the bigger dollar value in difference. If you can get $3K more on a $10K car trade, then definitely sell on your own. If it's on a $50K car, then it's not.
If my $10K car only drew $11K in the market, I'd probably just trade because that $375 difference isn't worth the time and effort it would take to move it on my own.

Generally going on your own to sell or even CarMax is the way to go vs. what most dealers pay, but it's definitely worth looking at both options.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:34 PM   #53
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If you have a carmax go to them get it appraised then use that appraisal for a baseline on what the dealership offers. With carmax though they give you a lower trade in value if you are not purchasing their car.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:38 PM   #54
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Not to be too disrespectful, but I don't think you are well researched or experienced with this.
I have purchased 6 vehicles in the last 8 years. Keep or toss.

Quote:
First off, cash is not king. That's an old myth and no longer true.
The trade is part of the equation and a profit center for the dealer. They definitely have control.
While cash is not as important as it was before the days of easy credit, it is still better than a trade-in; for the reason you described: it is part of the profit center. The reason the dealership low balls you is so that they have the best chance of not losing money on the trade-in, either at auction or by flipping. In reality then, they are playing for a profit. There is no profit opportunity for them on cash down payment.

The question was: What makes a trade-in a PITA? Well, it's pretty simple. First, if you are trading something in, then you are negotiating on the value of two things instead of just one and second, you will lose money trading in, pretty much guaranteed, unless the dealership is just really stupid.

Quote:
Everyone who knows how to successfully buy a vehicle knows that you should negotiate each of the "big 3" separately: New Car Price, Financing, and Trade.... all on their own and not as a whole.

Know what you need for each piece and work towards that on all 3. Don't be a 'payment buyer' and don't negotiate them as a whole.
Does not happen. You might think it does, but it doesn't. There is no negotiation on interest rate. You think they are dumb? They know what your options are, probably better than you do.

The only thing you are negotiating is how much money they are going to make on the sale and they are going to get it one way or the other. The trade-in? That is the only unknown and is why they low ball you. Any money they make from the trade-in is gravy.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:42 PM   #55
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All I know is I just sold one of my trucks for about $3,000 more than I could have realistically traded it in for. I don't know about you, but I would never trade in a vehicle. I know not everyone has another vehicle to drive until you buy a new car, but selling your vehicle privately is better than trading it in. I would much rather have the additional $3,000 to put down on the Jeep then settle for the trade in value.
In fact, you could under sell everyone on Craigslist and still get more for your trade.

What I do to avoid the problems with being car-less is I use a credit card for my down payment. I usually sell my trade in less than a month later and then use the cash I get to pay off the credit card. Easy. Problem is... they won't accept more than 5% down payment on a credit card.

I realize that does not work for everyone.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:46 PM   #56
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Keith, are you saying you can't shop around your loan? I am just trying to see if that is what you meant because I know the dealership offered my 2.49 and said it was a steal while USAA offered me 1.99 and my credit union offered me 1.49 with direct withdraw of account....
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:52 PM   #57
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My dad sold cars for 30 years. With a trade, only ask one question. My car and how much more out the door? Have what you are willing to pay already decided.

They can play with the price of the trade, price of the new car, the amount of your payment, length of the loan.

One simple question. My car and how much out the door.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:53 PM   #58
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dk, you sound like a brilliant man, let me buy you a Guiness
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:56 PM   #59
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For example, in Texas, you need to get 6.25% more for your trade by selling it in order to make it worth selling on your own. The reason is that you only pay sales tax on the difference between the trade and new purchase.
Let's just do the math real quick... BTW, it does not matter how expensive the car is you are buying. The only relevant part of the comparison is the value of the tax savings on the trade-in.

Let's take a 1997 F-150 for a trade-in as an example: high $1,135, low $448.

Tax savings on trade in: $30

Difference in trade-in sale: $687

Not even close.

What I have seen done is a dealer that is willing to monkey with the numbers to help you reduce your tax liability, but I still do not see how it is possible to make it worth your while.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:59 PM   #60
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Keith, are you saying you can't shop around your loan? I am just trying to see if that is what you meant because I know the dealership offered my 2.49 and said it was a steal while USAA offered me 1.99 and my credit union offered me 1.49 with direct withdraw of account....
I'm saying that they can beat any rate you can get on your own and they know exactly what USAA and your CU can give you, probably before you do. All they need to know is your credit score.

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