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Old 01-01-2010, 11:26 AM   #31
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Hilldweller, I am not questioning the articles you posted nor do I want to debate the science of lighting with you. Per my earlier post, I am saying that in MY experience with the bulbs I have selected, they light the road significantly better than the OEM bulbs. If the color is 'fooling' me into thinking the road looks brighter and I can see further, then wow... I am a happy fool.

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Old 01-01-2010, 12:46 PM   #32
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As long as you're happy.

But trust me. There is a reason that they're illegal in 99% of all other countries on this planet.

This is a great forum to learn about lighting.
Automotive - CandlePowerForums
Some of the members work in the industry. I only work in a support capacity for test and measurement equipment that the industry uses.

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Old 01-04-2010, 04:44 PM   #33
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I just installed the delta xenon lights & they're much better than stock. They come with a 2nd bulb for daylight running lights. The harness for the DRLs has to be obtained directly from delta, but when you do that notice there's a an upgrade LED option for the DRLs. Just an fyi.....I've ordered it and will update when it's installed.
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Old 01-04-2010, 05:45 PM   #34
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Hilldweller if you only had 150.00 to spend on upgrading your lights which way would you go
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:14 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by mudbugjeep View Post
Hilldweller if you only had 150.00 to spend on upgrading your lights which way would you go
Phillips +80 bulbs and a wire harness w/relays from Rallylights. That should be under $100.
Any of the H4 reflector & bulb conversions are a step better though.
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:07 AM   #36
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Checking the voltage is the last thing I'm going to do before cracking open the piggybank and getting a for-real HID kit:
suvlights.com OSRAM Sylvania XENARC HID Sealed Beam X6024 (7" Round) Upgrade Kit HID headlight
I thought I updated this already; this HID kit is junk. Don't get it.

suvlights.com - CandlePowerForums
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Old 01-05-2010, 02:48 PM   #37
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I just pre-ordered the IPF 920H4 JK Headlights from Northridge4X4. They're due to ship the end of the month. Will post results once they're installed. Just a lil' fed up with the poor OEM headlights. We have to drive to work up here in the Great White North in the dark so anything better than OEM is a bonus! Price wasn't too bad either and they're Plug & Play!

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Old 01-05-2010, 03:09 PM   #38
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They don't give much of a description on the website; what do you get in the package?
The reflection looks blue...
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:59 PM   #39
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<dissertation>

I've been following this thread for a while now and decided to wade in here. Just last night I was coming down the mountain after skiing and the road down the mountain is not well lit. While cars were approaching I had the head lamps on low and the fog lights on. The fog lights allowed me to see pot holes at enough distance to avoid them. When there were no cars approaching, the high beams shown far enough down the road to allow for reaction to things like wildlife that might surprise me with enough distance to react. I don't care how good of a driver you are, if a deer jumps out in front of you at close distance whereby your reaction time/traction is not enough to stop the jeep, you are going to connect. I hit a deer with my caravan and buckled the hood on it. Four years later it got traded for the jeep. Headlights, no matter how bright, would not have saved my poor caravan hood or the deer from a pair of sore shoulders. I practically stood the caravan up on it's front wheels and hit the deer at about 3mph. My brother in law hit a deer in Ohio that jumped out from a corn field, again it was reaction time and not the lights that was the problem. He saw the deer perfectly well but couldn't stop in time. He had more serious damage than I did including having to clear a lot of deer poop from the inside of the truck.

Regarding legalities of using the wrong stuff. I tend to stay on the legal side of things. Maybe nobody would notice my bright lights...until something bad happens. Suppose you are driving along and your lights are pointed at a person driving in the opposite direction and that person has a problem seeing because of the wavelength of your particular light configuration. You collide head on and kill the driver. During the investigation, it comes out that you had an illegal installation of head lights in your jeep. Prepare to pay more money than any insurance policy could possibly cover you for. I believe they call that negligence and ignorance of the law is usually not an excuse for this...at least that any jury would consider in a civil suite. Never mind what could happen in a criminal case regarding the homicide caused by breaking the law. There are just too many variables that can occur when laws are broken even with good intentions of being able to see well.

In conclusion: My headlights work well enough to use them for their intended purpose. If I did replace them with brighter ones, they would be within legal limits. I'm not a lawyer but I like my stuff and prefer to keep my stuff. I like my freedom and prefer to keep it and not waste any part of my time in prison. I live an exciting enough life that I don't need to complicate it with legal issues beyond my control.

</dissertation>


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Old 01-05-2010, 07:14 PM   #40
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I must say I have been running SilverStars in my Truck for several years in the highs, lows, and fogs and love them. They provide me with much better vision with light and where I live, there is a need for more light. They are much better then stock and I would buy them again! Now for the Jeep, yes they do suck, but it rarely gets driven at night...
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:20 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
They don't give much of a description on the website; what do you get in the package?
The reflection looks blue...
Hard to tell from the pics on the web what they'll actually perform like. I'll take pics when I get the kit and post them here.
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Old 01-10-2010, 04:09 PM   #42
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Thanks for this post. Thanks to Hilldweller, ordered the Phillips +80 for the 10 Rubicon ordered Nov. 09 but haven't received delivery yet. Something about a mid-west snow storm that has delayed shipments by 2 or 3 weeks. When it comes in the headlamp bulbs will be changed. Also going to consider getting new hood latches as recommended. Appreciate all the comments about JK's, especially since all of my time on this forum has been in the YJ section. Still can't believe after 10 weeks it hasn't been shipped out. It was built on Dec. 2, 09.
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Old 01-10-2010, 04:19 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by steve-m View Post
Hello all,

My new 2010 Wrangler has the dimmest headlights I've ever seen.
My wife has a Toyota minivan and the headlights (not HIDs) totally blow away the Jeep.
I don't want to convert to HIDs (at least while it is still under warranty).
I was wondering if anyone knows if it is the reflector design, or just cheap oem bulbs.
If it is the bulbs, what are your recommendations for a replacement with the same wattage as oem - don't want to overheat anything - esspecially that integrated control unit thingy.

Thanks.

Steve
I owned a toyota minivan, toyota matrix, toyota truck, all there low beam headlights were poor. the jeep is no better until I turn on my factory fog lights then they are as good as any other vechicle I have owned. All the new factory headlights seem to be poor.
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Old 01-10-2010, 06:42 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by kik View Post
Thanks for this post. Thanks to Hilldweller, ordered the Phillips +80 for the 10 Rubicon ordered Nov. 09 but haven't received delivery yet. Something about a mid-west snow storm that has delayed shipments by 2 or 3 weeks. When it comes in the headlamp bulbs will be changed. Also going to consider getting new hood latches as recommended. Appreciate all the comments about JK's, especially since all of my time on this forum has been in the YJ section. Still can't believe after 10 weeks it hasn't been shipped out. It was built on Dec. 2, 09.
Where did you order the phillips bulb from ? Did you also order harness
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Old 01-10-2010, 06:45 PM   #45
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Has any one tryed these yet , link provided
Susquehanna MotorSports - Auto Performance Product
What have you heard about these Hilldwellar
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Old 01-10-2010, 08:20 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by mudbugjeep View Post
Has any one tryed these yet , link provided
Susquehanna MotorSports - Auto Performance Product
What have you heard about these Hilldwellar
those are WAYYYYYYYYY to expensive for just a headlight upgrade.
put the money to something better man.
the jeeps stock headlights are not that bad too have to spend $200
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Old 01-10-2010, 08:55 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
Illegal, unsafe, etc.
Most people don't get caught but, if you do, the fine is $10,000.
You can't run HID in a housing that's not designed for it.
There are HID kits that are full conversion but they're over $500 per light.
You can't run HID in a housing that's not designed for it.

How do figer that? I've put HIDs in 6 cars with no problems!
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:21 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by mudbugjeep View Post
Where did you order the phillips bulb from ? Did you also order harness
You can get the bulbs from Candlepower or suvlights.com.
The harness is most reliable from rallylights.com.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay125 View Post
You can't run HID in a housing that's not designed for it.
How do figer that? I've put HIDs in 6 cars with no problems!
You didn't do it legally; that's how I "figer" it.
DOT law makes it law in every state, regardless of any local lack of laws.


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Has any one tryed these yet , link provided
Susquehanna MotorSports - Auto Performance Product
What have you heard about these Hilldwellar
I have my kit on order.
This kit is second only to the Daniel Stern Cibie conversion.
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:37 PM   #49
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Let me know how it works out hill . And appstate , to me 200 is well worth that upgrade if it say dbl the performance of stock . Down here in Cajun country these roads suck and you need everything you can sometimes
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:05 PM   #50
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Well, I know theres no Texas laws on HID's. I love mine! I dont care for the colored ones myself..... 4300 or 5000 are great...
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:16 PM   #51
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oh i know about horrible country roads mudbug, and yes there are worse things to spend $200 on.
but i have been driving on horrible country roads ever since i started driving and have not had a problem, even with deer all around me.
and if you double the performance think about the people who have too look into those lights while driving, thats even more dangerous than having sh*tty lights.

im not trying to tell you not to get the lights, but $200 can go alot farther than that, especially in these times, thats my opinion.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:39 AM   #52
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Wow, this is the only thread that I have read where everyone is disagreeing with each other of lights. I just saw this tonight. I know almost nothing about lights so I have no clue if these are good or not. Reviews I have found say they work great though.

Delta Tech 01119850X - Delta 7" Round Quad Bar Xenon Headlamp Kit for 07-10 Jeep® Wrangler & Wrangler Unlimited JK - Quadratec

Why is illegal for someone to replace their bulbs with HID ones? Do the just run to hot or what?
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:59 AM   #53
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**** those white and blue headlights. i couldnt give two shits if you can see 2x better. they should be illegal, its that simple. your factory headlights come with a tint of yellow because it doesnt blind other drivers. its getting to the point where every other car on the road has white or blue headlights. if you have roads that are full of dear or are so beat up that you need brighter lights just to drive on, then you shouldnt be driving on them at night. man do i feel better now.
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:19 AM   #54
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Why is illegal for someone to replace their bulbs with HID ones? Do the just run to hot or what?
I haven't seen the Delta kit in action but a major truck magazine did a shoot-out with most of the 7" replacement H4 conversions. In their tests the Hellas won; they did not test Cibie though and they are generally considered superior.

Please click this link and read about HID conversions:
Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply

Quote:
Originally Posted by APPSTATEwrangler View Post
and if you double the performance think about the people who have too look into those lights while driving, thats even more dangerous than having sh*tty lights.
The JK's light output is hindered by a few things.
The H13 bulb design, the gauge of the stock wiring, the reflector, and being fed voltage via pulse width modulation through its canbus.
It is very easy to double the light output by using a better designed reflector, bulb, and wiring harness --- all legally, all safe, all courteous to on-coming traffic.
I think that $200 is money well-spent to see where you're going at night.
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:21 AM   #55
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Well, I know theres no Texas laws on HID's. I love mine! I dont care for the colored ones myself..... 4300 or 5000 are great...
You "know" that, huh?
Until Texas finally does secede from the union, I'm afraid that your retrofits are illegal unless you go the extra mile and replace the reflector with one designed to run HID bulbs.
The only state that I know enforces this law aggressively is VA. For now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Federal Law
(e) If a ballast is required for operation, each ballast shall bear the following permanent markings:
(1) Name or logo of ballast manufacturer;
(2) Ballast part number or unique identification;
(3) Part number or other unique identification of the light source for which the ballast is designed;
(4) Rated laboratory life of the light source/ballast combination, if the information for the light source has been filed in Appendix B of part 564 of this chapter;
(5) A warning that ballast output voltage presents the potential for severe electrical shock that could lead to permanent injury or death;
(6) Ballast output power in watts and output voltage in rms volts AC or DC; and
(7) The symbol `DOT'.''
(f) For light sources that use excited gas mixtures as a filament or discharge arc, the ``rated laboratory life'' shall be determined in accordance with sections 4.3 and 4.9 of SAE Recommended Practice J2009 FEB93 Forward Discharge Lighting Systems.
S7.8 Aimability Performance Requirements.
S7.8.1 (a) Each headlamp or beam contributor that is not visually/optically aimable in accordance with S7.8.5.3 of this standard shall be equipped with fiducial marks, aiming pads, or similar references of sufficient detail and accuracy, for determination of an appropriate vehicle plane to be used with the photometric procedures of SAE J1383 APR85 for correct alignment with the photometer axis when being tested for photometric compliance, and to serve for the aiming reference when the headlamp or beam contributor is installed on a motor vehicle. The fiducial marks, aiming pads, or similar references are protrusions, bubble vials, holes, indentations, ridges, scribed lines, or other readily identifiable marks established and described by the vehicle or headlamp manufacturer.

(b) Each motor vehicle manufactured on and after September 1, 1998, shall be equipped with headlamps or beam contributors which have a mark or markings that are visible from the front of the headlamp when installed on the vehicle to identify the optical axis of the headlamp to assure proper horizontal and vertical alignment of the aiming screen or optical aiming equipment. The manufacturer is free to choose the design of the mark or markings. The mark or markings may be on the interior or exterior of the lens or indicated by a mark or central structure on the interior or exterior of the headlamp.

(c) Each headlamp that is visually/optically aimable in accordance with S7.8.5.3 of this standard shall be marked in accordance with S7.8.5.3(f).

S7.8.2 Except as provided in this paragraph, each headlamp shall be installed on a motor vehicle with a mounting and aiming mechanism that allows aim inspection and adjustment of both vertical and horizontal aim, and is accessible for those purposes without removal of any vehicle parts, except for protective covers removable without the use of tools.

S7.8.2.1
(c) A visually/optically aimable headlamp that has a lower beam shall not have a horizontal adjustment mechanism unless such mechanism meets the requirements of paragraph S7.8.5.2 of this standard.

S7.8.2.2
(b) Conform with the photometrics applicable to it with the lens at any position relative to the reflector within the range limits as specified in S7.8.2.2(a)
S7.8.5 When activated in a steady-burning state, headlamps shall not have any styling ornament or other feature, such as a translucent cover or grill, in front of the lens. Headlamp wipers may be used in front of the lens provided that the headlamp system is designed to conform with all applicable photometric requirements with the wiper stopped in any position in front of the lens. When a headlamp system is installed on a motor vehicle, it shall be aimable with at least one of the following: An externally applied aiming device, as specified in S7.8.5.1; an on-vehicle headlamp aiming device installed by the vehicle or lamp manufacturer, as specified in S7.8.5.2; or by visual/optical means, as specified in S7.8.5.3.

S7.8.5.1 External aiming. Each headlamp system that is capable of being mechanically aimed by externally applied headlamp aiming devices shall be mechanically aimable using the equipment specified in SAE Standard J602 OCT80 Headlamp Aiming Device for Mechanically Aimable Sealed Beam Headlamp Units without the removal of any ornamental trim rings, covers, wipers or other vehicle parts.

(b) When a headlamp is installed on a motor vehicle, its aim in any
direction shall not change by more than 0.30 degree nor shall the lamp recede more than 0.1 in. (2.5 mm.) after being subjected to an inward
force of 50 pounds (222 newtons) applied evenly to the lens parallel to the mechanical axis.

S7.8.5.2 On-vehicle aiming. Each headlamp system that is capable of being aimed by equipment installed on the vehicle shall include a Vehicle Headlamp Aiming Device (VHAD) that conforms to the following requirements:
(a) Aim. The VHAD shall provide for headlamp aim inspection and adjustment in both the vertical and horizontal axes.
(1) Vertical aim. The VHAD shall include the necessary references and scales relative to the horizontal plane to assure correct vertical aim for photometry and aiming purposes. An off-vehicle measurement of the angle of the plane of the ground is permitted. In addition, an equal number of graduations from the ``O'' position representing angular changes in the axis in the upward and downward directions shall be provided.
(i) Each graduation shall represent a change in the vertical
position of the mechanical axis not larger than 0.19 degree (1 in. at 25 ft.) to provide for variations in aim at least 1.2 degrees above and below the horizontal, and have an accuracy relative to the zero mark of less than 0.1 degree.
(ii) The VHAD shall be marked to indicate headlamp aim movement in the upward and downward directions.
(iii) Each graduation shall indicate a linear movement of the scale indicator of not less than 0.05 in. (1.27 mm) if a direct reading analog indicator is used. If a remote reading indicator is provided, it shall represent the actual aim movement in a clear, understandable format.
(iv) The vertical indicator shall perform through a minimum range of +/-1.2 degrees.
(v) Means shall be provided in the VHAD for compensating for deviations in floor slope less than 1.2 degrees from the horizontal that would affect the correct positioning of the headlamp for vertical aim.
(vi) The graduations shall be legible under an illumination level not greater than 30 foot candles, measured at the top of the graduation, by an observer having 20/20 vision (Snellen), and shall permit aim adjustment to within 0.19 degree (1 in. at 25 ft.).
(2) Horizontal aim. The VHAD shall include references and scales relative to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle necessary to assure correct horizontal aim for photometry and aiming purposes. An ``O'' mark shall be used to indicate alignment of the headlamps relative to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle. In addition, an equal number of graduations from the ``O'' position representing equal angular changes in the axis relative to the vehicle axis shall be provided.
(i) Each graduation shall represent a change in the horizontal position of the mechanical axis not greater than 0.38 degree (2 in. at 25 ft.) to provide for variations in aim at least 0.76 degree (4 in. at 25 ft.) to the left and right of the longitudinal axis of the vehicle, and shall have an accuracy relative to the zero mark of less than 0.1 degree.
(ii) The VHAD shall be marked to indicate headlamp aim movement in the left and right directions.
(iii) The graduations shall be legible under an illumination level not greater than 30 foot candles, measured at the top of the graduation, by an observer having 20/20 vision (Snellen), and shall permit aim adjustment to within 0.38 degree (2 in. at 25 ft.).
(iv) The horizontal indicator shall perform through a minimum range of +/-0.76 degree (4 in. at 25 ft.); however, the indicator itself shall be capable of recalibration over a movement of +/-2.5 degrees relative to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle to accommodate any adjustment necessary for recalibrating the indicator after vehicle repair from accident damage.
(b) Aiming instructions.
(1) The instructions for properly aiming the headlighting system using the VHAD shall be provided on a label permanently affixed to the vehicle adjacent to the VHAD, or in the vehicle operator's manual. The instructions shall advise that the headlighting system is properly aimed if the appropriate vertical plane (as defined by the vehicle manufacturer) is perpendicular to both the longitudinal axis of the vehicle, and a horizontal plane when the vehicle is on a horizontal surface, and the VHAD is set at ``O'' vertical and ``O'' horizontal.
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:30 AM   #56
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...your factory headlights come with a tint of yellow because it doesnt blind other drivers.
I like what you're trying to say but maybe you could edit-out the language so that moderators don't need to remove our thread?

First off though, OE bulbs aren't tinted yellow; you're thinking of "selective yellow", like what was mandated for use in France years ago.
I've tinted the lenses on my HID offroad lights to use this benefit:



OE lights look a little yellow because that is the natural color of halogen lights.
Just like the natural color of HID lights has a little blue to them.
So, because America has very liberal laws concerning what you are allowed to sell to an uninformed population, there are bulbs available that are tinted blue to give the appearance that you have HID lighting. They do not let you see better; they do cause harmful glare, cost too much, and burn out fast.

If anybody doubts anything I've posted regarding lighting, please spend an afternoon browsing these two forums.
Automotive - CandlePowerForums
Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:34 AM   #57
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A newb when it comes to lights, so can I just plug in the Phillips +80's to my 10 Rubicon without doing any damage to the stock system?
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:04 AM   #58
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A newb when it comes to lights, so can I just plug in the Phillips +80's to my 10 Rubicon without doing any damage to the stock system?
Yes; they're H13 bulbs and not over-wattage.
You won't get their full benefit unless you run a wiring harness and relays but the lights will be better.
Make sure they're aimed well too.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:28 AM   #59
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Thanks for the response. The 10 left the factory yesterday enroute to the dealer so I should have it by the end of the week. Will install the lights and the new Bosch wiper blades. Appreciate all of your help.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:19 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
I think that $200 is money well-spent to see where you're going at night.
If you have the extra money and want to upgrade something than go for it. There is nothing worse than skimping on cheap equipment if you can save up and get the best there is, especially when it comes to something as important as lighting the road in front of you.
I am a college student and very limited on money and when I can afford to get something for my jeep other than gas it is a big deal for me and for someone like me to spend $200 on lights to replace the factory lights, that is going a little overboard. Now i might pay $200 to get another pair of lights for the windshield or the bumper to complement the existing driving lights, but not to replace something that really has nothing wrong with it, even if they are a little dim.
SO.....that is why i got the silverstars, because it is a nice little upgrade that really does make a difference, no matter how it "fools you", and it is inexpensive.
this long a$$ post goes out to all the broke jeepers out there, not to the people who can afford $200 lights.

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