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Old 01-12-2010, 10:08 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by APPSTATEwrangler View Post
SO.....that is why i got the silverstars, because it is a nice little upgrade that really does make a difference, no matter how it "fools you", and it is inexpensive.
this long a$$ post goes out to all the broke jeepers out there, not to the people who can afford $200 lights.
See, that's what I'm trying to get across.
The Sylvania Silverstars are not an "upgrade".
There are two categories of electronic things that you add to vehicles: farkles and fru-fru. As far as lightbulbs go, Hellas, Osram Silverstars, Phillips Visionplus, GE Nighthawks --- these are farkles; they work. PIAA, Sylvania Silverstar, & the other blue bulbs are fru-fru.
If you are on a budget, and, believe me, I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, buy something that works, not something that is just marketing dreck.

College kids: read these --
Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply
Rayleigh scattering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.lightingresearch.org/prog...01-01-0320.pdf

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Old 01-12-2010, 10:38 AM   #62
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ok so if you had the chance to get silverstars and had only enough money to get those, you would rather stick with the OEM lights instead??
that was the exact situation i was in. I got mine for xmas and i was not about to tell my parents to empty their wallet on expensive headlights.

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Old 01-12-2010, 10:47 AM   #63
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ok so if you had the chance to get silverstars and had only enough money to get those, you would rather stick with the OEM lights instead??
Yes.
Lumen for lumen, the OE pushes more long wavelength light, the yellows, oranges, & reds --- the stuff that humans can see by.
A new wiring harness would improve the OE bulbs though...

On a dry clear night, the blue tinted bulb will be okay. The worse the weather, the more visual "noise", the worse you'll see.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:57 AM   #64
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driving in bad weather with my OE's was still a disaster waiting to happen and i do not think the Silverstars improved the vision much in those situations,but i was more concerned about the lack of good highbeams with the OE's cause i use those the most while driving on these country roads. and i think i do see some improvement in the highbeams.
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:10 PM   #65
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**** those white and blue headlights. i couldnt give two shits if you can see 2x better. they should be illegal, its that simple. your factory headlights come with a tint of yellow because it doesnt blind other drivers. its getting to the point where every other car on the road has white or blue headlights. if you have roads that are full of dear or are so beat up that you need brighter lights just to drive on, then you shouldnt be driving on them at night. man do i feel better now.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:15 PM   #66
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I like what you're trying to say but maybe you could edit-out the language so that moderators don't need to remove our thread?

First off though, OE bulbs aren't tinted yellow; you're thinking of "selective yellow", like what was mandated for use in France years ago.
I've tinted the lenses on my HID offroad lights to use this benefit:



OE lights look a little yellow because that is the natural color of halogen lights.
Just like the natural color of HID lights has a little blue to them.
So, because America has very liberal laws concerning what you are allowed to sell to an uninformed population, there are bulbs available that are tinted blue to give the appearance that you have HID lighting. They do not let you see better; they do cause harmful glare, cost too much, and burn out fast.

If anybody doubts anything I've posted regarding lighting, please spend an afternoon browsing these two forums.
Automotive - CandlePowerForums
Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply
sorry about the language, really bright headlights kinda piss me off. i didnt mean that the factory lights are tinted yellow. i was trying to say that the bulbs are between a white and yellow color. its not a pure white and its not straight yellow. now back to the tj forum i go.
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:54 PM   #67
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HID 4300k H4 hi/lo's = $100
HID 4300k H3's = $60
My Happiness = priceless
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:55 PM   #68
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LMAO appstate you probably spent 4 times that on the stereo that you put in your jeep , not to mention all the other upgrades you have listed you done to your jeep , and alot of jeepers on here wouldnt agree tp what mods you did to your jeep . Simply this post was about dim lights and what you can do to upgrade , not basically sit back and eat what the factory gives us . And you saying your poor sounds like the wall street bankers from the look of your mods
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:04 PM   #69
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mudbug-
wow, that makes you sound sooooo intellectual, judging me and you dont even know me. hey if you want to get personal we can take this somewhere else because this is an informative thread and i am giving my honest opinion. im not trying to say anyone is wrong or tell people not to buy anything.

and to comment on your post,
i have dedicated the past 4 christmases, the past 4 birthdays, and most of my hard working money to put what i have into my jeep. And compared to what other members have done to theirs in a shorter amount of time, mine looks pretty bare if you ask me.

you dont have to agree with me mudbug, or hilldweller, for that matter, but dont count out my opinion and think it does not matter because that is all im giving to anyone on this forum.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:26 AM   #70
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HID 4300k H4 hi/lo's = $100
HID 4300k H3's = $60
My Happiness = priceless
My question would be does it meet DOT standards? If it doesn't please give your address to the local police so that they can take appropriate action and protect the lives of others on the road. This thread is humorous. The stock lights get the job done. If you can't drive at night with them, don't and be safe. Keep your installations legal. Others will be more happy that way... and safe. Hilldweller posted the DOT standards because he is trying to say that there are limits. The limits are there for the safety of everybody. I would call it childish to intentionally flaunt the law with an illegal installation of lighting on your jeep. I think I grew out of that when I was in my twenties.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:39 AM   #71
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My question would be does it meet DOT standards?
Probably not.

There are legal HID retrofit kits available; some are good quality and some are very very bad.
This is a bad kit:
suvlights.com OSRAM Sylvania XENARC HID Sealed Beam X6024 (7" Round) Upgrade Kit HID headlight
Here's why:
suvlights.com - CandlePowerForums

I'd check any kit on Candlpowerforums before buying it.

As for the illegal retrofits, if your OE lights are halogen projectors, an HID bulb won't be as dangerous or annoying as those installed in normal reflectors.

There are jurisdictions that are starting to target illegal HID installs. I would think that they'd go after retail shops that are selling them first but, it will hit the streets as well.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:54 PM   #72
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Horrid Lighting for a new vehicle, but it is intentional.

I think you are supposed to practice during the day (for safety reasons) with a black Zodiac style hood over your head. Either that or just have your wife walk slowly in front of the vehicle, while you carefully work the throttle.

9008XPS2 - PHILIPS X-TREME POWER 9008/H13 Halogen Lamp Up To 80% More Light
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:44 AM   #73
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I think you are supposed to practice during the day (for safety reasons) with a black Zodiac style hood over your head. Either that or just have your wife walk slowly in front of the vehicle, while you carefully work the throttle.
Now that's funny!

This thread is becoming a favorite of mine. Lots of good info and just plain fun watching the debate. FWIW, I find the jeep lights just OK, but the wife's T&C van is terrible. Maybe that will get the first lighting upgrade. AND NO, Gearjammer, I will not walk in front while SHE "carefully" works the throttle!

Keep up the good work, folks

Bob
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:11 AM   #74
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Just picked up the 10 Rubicon and looked to see about replacing the headlight bulbs with the phillips +80 I just received. Is there a better way to do this because it doesn't seem like there is any room to get your hand in and take out the originals and replace with the phillips. I guess my question is, how should I do it?
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:22 AM   #75
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Just picked up the 10 Rubicon and looked to see about replacing the headlight bulbs with the phillips +80 I just received. Is there a better way to do this because it doesn't seem like there is any room to get your hand in and take out the originals and replace with the phillips. I guess my question is, how should I do it?
The airbox is held in place by 3 large-but-fragile bayonets; pull up firmly and it comes out. Access that bulb easily now.
Good time to put some lithium grease or slippery stuff of your choice on the rubber grommets as well.

On the drivers side, just loosen the horn and swing it out of the way.

Or you can do the job like the manual says and pull all of the little plastic rivet thingies around the grill. Not the worst chore in the world but labor is labor, right?

Remember to aim your lights properly too. Use a T-15 driver. Looking at the front of your Jeep, the adjusters are at 10 and 2 o'clock; just stick the driver in there and twist.

This link describes the proper technique for hitting the mark:
Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:36 AM   #76
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Thanks Hilldweller. Since I'm taking off the grill to install a mesh screen behind it I guess this is the time to replace the bulbs. By replacing the originals with the phillips due they have to be re-aimed or is the factory aiming sufficient? I don't think I can get the correct aim without going to a shop to do it.
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Old 01-17-2010, 08:07 AM   #77
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By replacing the originals with the phillips due they have to be re-aimed or is the factory aiming sufficient? I don't think I can get the correct aim without going to a shop to do it.
The factory aim on mine was putting out streetlights at night; they're all aimed haphazardly. Yours might be okay but I wouldn't count on it.
Aiming is easy and only involves a wall, a tape measure, darkness, a flat surface, and something to leave a mark (I use blue masking tape). Takes 5 minutes.


Here's a great explanation about the blue bulbs and yellow bulbs.

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Originally Posted by Scheinwerfermann View Post
Well, let's talk about colour filtration. The visible spectrum consists of all the colors of the rainbow: Red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and indigo + violet. Glowing filaments produce a whole lot of light in the red-orange-yellow-green wavelengths, and relatively little light in the blue-violet wavelengths. To put very rough numbers on the matter, a middle-of-spec 9006 bulb operating at 12.8v produces 1000 lumens, of which approximately 250 are red, 250 are orange, 250 are yellow, 175 are green, 50 are blue and 25 are violet.

Now, suppose you want to add a filter to the glass that makes the light look bluer/colder. How does it do that? Well, there's no such thing as a filter that adds light into the beam passing through it -- filters can only suppress light, not add it. So if we can't add green-blue-violet light, then the only way to get the light to look colder is to suppress green-blue-violet's opposites, which are red-orange-yellow. If we want the light to look, let's say, 20% colder, we suppress red-orange-yellow by 20%. Looking up above, we see that we've got a total of 750 lumens' worth of red, orange and yellow. So, cutting this by 20% leaves 600 lumens, plus essentially all of the bulb's original green-blue-violet output of 250 lumens, so we've now got a bulb that produces light that looks 20% colder and produces 850 lumens.

Now, 850 lumens happens to be the minimum legal output for a 9006 (which has a spec of 1000 lumens, ± 15%). Unless we're an evil fly-by-night company that really doesn't care about quality and legality, we can't produce a bulb that produces only the bare minimum of light, because half our production will be 849 lumens or less just on account of the variances encountered in mass production. So, we have to put in a high-luminance filament to try to counteract some of the filtering losses, but we still have to come in under the max-allowable-wattage spec in DOT or ECE regulations.

So, let's say we build our 9006 with a high-zoot filament that produces 1200 lumens. That's too much for a legal 9006, but we're going to block some of those lumens with our coloured filter (blue glass). This 1200-lumen filament produces, let's say, 300 lumens red, 300 lumens orange, 300 lumens yellow, 210 lumens green, 60 lumens blue and 30 lumens violet. Now we put that same blue glass over it, which suppresses red-orange-yellow by 20%. Now we've got 720 lumens' worth of red-orange-yellow after filtration, plus 300 lumens' worth of green-blue-violet. That gives us a 910-lumen bulb, which is enough above the 850-lumen legal minimum that we can run the bulb and even if some filaments only produce 1150 lumens instead of 1200, we're still legally OK. Of course, we still only have 910 lumens instead of 1000, and our 1200-lumen filament is going to have a significantly shorter life than a 1000-lumen filament, but we've got our colder/bluer light appearance in a legal bulb.

By now you probably see why filtering for yellow does not significantly reduce light output: Take our 1000-lumen 9006 as broken down by colour output above. No such thing as a filter that adds extra yellow light, so we have to get our yellow by suppressing blue-violet (the particular yellow that yellow headlamp/foglamp bulbs produce, called "selective yellow" and described above, contains all the green found in white light. If we took out green, we'd have a turn signal type of amber-orange light.) OK, then, let's cut blue-violet by 80%. That means we've got our 925 lumens' worth of red-orange-yellow-green, plus 15 lumens' worth of blue-violet (after filtration). Total: 940 lumens. MUCH smaller loss! OK, so we put in a very slightly better filament, say one that produces 1060 lumens, and now we've got 980 lumens' worth of red-orange-yellow-green, plus 16 lumens' worth of blue-violet (after filtration) for a total of 996 lumens, which is for all intents and purposes identical to our original 1000-lumen uncoloured bulb (a parking lamp bulb puts out as few as 30 lumens).
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Old 01-18-2010, 09:07 AM   #78
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Since the grill will be off I'm swapping them out tomorrow. So I know ahead of time, do I just twist counter clockwise to remove? Or, is there something else I need to know. I know NOT to touch the bulbs.
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Old 01-18-2010, 10:56 AM   #79
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Twist and pop. Nothing fancy.
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Old 01-18-2010, 12:00 PM   #80
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Thanks again for your help.
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Old 01-18-2010, 01:14 PM   #81
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What is the OEM bulb Kelvin rating?
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Old 01-18-2010, 02:15 PM   #82
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What is the OEM bulb Kelvin rating?
That's a rating which is often misrepresented and abused... ...but a 55W halogen is usually around 3600K or so.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:00 AM   #83
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Dim Headlights

I am new to the Wrangler Forum and also think the headlights on my 2009 4 door Wrangler are extremely dim. I have had a '94 and a '98 Wrangler and they were both better cars than the 2009 in several ways. No comparison on the headlights! At first, I thought the headlights on the '09 weren't even on! The dealer told me that there aren't any replacement bulbs for the '09 Wrangler. Does anyone know if that is true? Would appreciate any suggestions. Pinefox
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:15 AM   #84
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The dealer told me that there aren't any replacement bulbs for the '09 Wrangler. Does anyone know if that is true? Would appreciate any suggestions. Pinefox
Welcome to the forum. You're dealer is either a liar or is retarded.

Your JK has H13 headlight bulbs with wires that are too thin and voltage that is delivered via pulse width modulation. The bulb design is also a frugal design that, at its best, will deliver marginal lighting per watt.

With that out of the way, have you read this thread? I think it gives plenty of options for you.
If all you want to do is swap bulbs, get the Phillips product.
<b>Philips <font color="red">Xtreme Power</font> H13 / 9008</b> (TWO PACK)

Get these if you upgrade your wiring as well:
H13 (9008) Super Sale!
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:58 PM   #85
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Installed the Phillips +80 in the 10 Rubicon and took it for a test drive. These lights work great. A definite improvement over the standard lights. The aim was right on the money, no need to adjust. Just like to thank Hilldweller for the recommendation. If you're thinking about it, get these lights. An inexpensive improvement to a great Jeep.
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:45 PM   #86
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Phillips +80 came in 3 days from bulbs.com in the US. About 1/2 the price (including shipping) of any other brand I was looking at from Canadian Tire.

Pain in the ass to replace them, but very satisfied with the results.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:46 PM   #87
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Phillips +80 bulbs and a wire harness w/relays from Rallylights. That should be under $100.
Any of the H4 reflector & bulb conversions are a step better though.
I've ordered the phillips +80 bulbs but at this website i'm not sure which wire harness I need or relays. I have a 2008 unlimited sahara if you could help it would be great. Thanks
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:26 AM   #88
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I've ordered the phillips +80 bulbs but at this website i'm not sure which wire harness I need or relays. I have a 2008 unlimited sahara if you could help it would be great. Thanks
They custom-make everything; just call them and tell them what you want to do and they build it for you.

...and ask them where my Hellas are; I'm still waiting...
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:30 AM   #89
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Will do thanks!
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Old 01-20-2010, 08:28 PM   #90
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Dave with Rallylights.com is really persuasive... i'm scratching the phillips and going with the H4 conversion. I would recomend them to anyone because they are very informative and most of all patient with my not so electrical mind. Thanks for the advise hilldweller.

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