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Old 05-26-2011, 08:22 PM   #1
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Question Do Jeeps have EDR black boxes?

Per this report, do Wranglers have EDRs?

Autos Insider | U.S. to propose mandatory vehicle 'black boxes' | The Detroit News

U.S. to propose mandatory vehicle 'black boxes'
David Shepardson/ Detroit News Washington Bureau

The U.S. Transportation Department said today it will propose making vehicle "black boxes" mandatory in all vehicles by the end of the year.

The department's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has long considered whether to make black boxes, officially called event data recorders, or EDRs, mandatory. They collect data about the seconds leading up to a crash and can help investigators determine the cause.

Last year, Congress considered requiring EDRs in all vehicles. NHTSA Administrator David Strickland told Congress the agency was studying the issue.

The plan was included in a 197-page Transportation Department regulatory reform proposal released by the White House this morning.

"NHTSA plans to propose mandatory EDRs in all passenger vehicles in 2011," the Transportation Department said in the report.

In a separate agency document posted on its website, NHTSA said it is also working on a proposal "for future enhancements to (EDRs) capabilities and applicability." and so forth

From The Detroit News: Autos Insider | U.S. to propose mandatory vehicle 'black boxes' | The Detroit News

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Old 05-26-2011, 08:39 PM   #2
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2011 JKU does...meaning my COD has one

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Old 05-27-2011, 12:26 AM   #3
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From the 2008 Owners Manual:

Event Data Recorder (EDR)
In the event of an accident, your vehicle is designed to record up to five seconds of specific vehicle data parameters (see the following list) in an event data recorder prior to the moment of airbag deployment, and up to a quarter-second of high-speed deceleration data during and/or after airbag deployment or near-deployment. EDR data are ONLY recorded if an airbag deploys, or nearly deploys, and are otherwise unavailable.

NOTE:
• Under certain circumstances, EDR data may not be recorded (e.g., loss of battery power).

In conjunction with other data gathered during a complete accident investigation, the electronic data may be used by DaimlerChrysler Corporation and others to learn more about the possible causes of crashes and associated injuries in order to assess and improve vehicle performance.
In addition to crash investigations initiated by DaimlerChrysler Corporation, such investigations may be requested by customers, insurance carriers, government officials, and professional crash researchers, such as those associated with universities, and with hospital and insurance organizations. In the event that an investigation is undertaken by DaimlerChrysler Corporation (regardless of initiative), the company, or its designated representative, will first obtain permission of the appropriate custodial entity for the vehicle (usually the vehicle owner or leasee) before accessing the electronic data stored, unless ordered to download data by a court with legal jurisdiction (i.e., pursuant to a warrant). A copy of the data will be provided to the custodial entity upon request. General data that does not identify particular vehicles or crashes may be released for incorporation in aggregate crash databases, such as those maintained by the U.S. government and various states. Data of a potentially sensitive nature, such as would identify a particular driver, vehicle, or crash, will be treated confidentially. Confidential data will not be disclosed by DaimlerChrysler Corporation to any third party except when:
1. Used for research purposes, such as to match data with a particular crash record in an aggregate database, provided confidentiality of personal data is thereafter preserved
2. Used in defense of litigation involving a DaimlerChrysler Corporation product
3. Requested by police under a legal warrant
4. Otherwise required by law

Data Parameters that May Be Recorded:
• Diagnostic trouble code(s) and warning lamp status for electronically-controlled safety systems, including the airbag system
• Airbag disable lamp status (if equipped)
• Time of airbag deployment (in terms of ignition cycles and vehicle mileage)
• Airbag deployment level (if applicable)
• Impact acceleration and angle
• Seat belt status
• Brake status (service and parking brakes)
• Accelerator status (including vehicle speed)
• Engine control status (including engine speed)
• Transmission gear selection
• Cruise control status
• Traction/stability control status
• Tire pressure monitoring system (TPMS) status

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Old 05-27-2011, 12:48 AM   #4
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This is BS!!!

I consider my driving an art form and for others to use my work for their gain is just not right!!
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:51 AM   #5
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Don't see where it matters. I know a guy with a Hummer whose airbags deployed on a trail, and the data indicated that they deployed for no reason and Hummer covered it under warranty.

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Old 05-27-2011, 02:10 AM   #6
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These devices are only a bad thing in the event that you get into some kind of collision and police and/or your insurance company uses the data to show your fault i.e. you weren't wearing a seatbelt or you lied about your speed, etc.

On the other side of the story, I once had an accident investigation where a police officer totaled a patrol car, said he was going the speed limit and that the brakes had failed. I knew he was lying but I couldn't prove it. Once I was able to download the data, not only did I prove the officer was going 50mph OVER the speed limit, but also proved his brakes were working just before the crash...he was just a bad driver doing something stupid and for that he had to pay for a patrol car.

It all depends on how you look at it.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:09 AM   #7
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There's a disclosure in my '11's manual that says my Wrangler has an EDR.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:42 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by joe002 View Post
From the 2008 Owners Manual:

Event Data Recorder (EDR)

In the event of an accident, your vehicle is designed to record up to five seconds of specific vehicle data parameters

Which means...it has to be recording everything nonstop all the time. You don't think it retains a history file? You know your computer retains a file with every single website you have ever visited..at least with ADMIN rights you can clear that and temp files on it. Wouldn't it be funny if you make an insurance claim and here they come with a printout of your driving habits (speeding, rapid acceleration and braking, etc).

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Old 05-27-2011, 08:22 AM   #9
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Which means...it has to be recording everything nonstop all the time. You don't think it retains a history file? You know your computer retains a file with every single website you have ever visited..at least with ADMIN rights you can clear that and temp files on it. Wouldn't it be funny if you make an insurance claim and here they come with a printout of your driving habits (speeding, rapid acceleration and braking, etc).

Not necessarily. By design, it could just have enough memory for 5 seconds of data and constantly rewrite it, like a cassette tape with 5 seconds of tape looped on itself. If you hit record, it will record constantly, but the data from 5 seconds ago is being rewritten with the current data. Besides, why would Chrysler spend extra money to increase the memory capacity of the EDR to record a significant amount of data just to risk getting sued for some sort of violation of privacy if they downloaded and/or released more than the 5 seconds they have the disclaimer for?
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:26 AM   #10
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Typical EDRs store the last 5 sec of data BEFORE airbag deployment plus 1 sec AFTER the deployment. They record data continuously, but only these 6 sec of data are preserved in case on an accident. Older data are lost. In order to preserve the data, airbags MUST be activated by the deceleration switch. If you have an accident but airbags don't deploy, the EDR will keep on "rolling", recording new data, and the data associated with the event / accident will be overwritten. Most cars have EDR's since at least 5 years ago, although in wasn't until 2008 that the "disclosure statement" in the owner's manual become mandatory. Some brands have been installing EDRs (or using the car's ECU as EDR) for more than 10 years.

However, the car's ECU records much more data than the accident-related parameters listed. Every time the dealer plugs the ECU into a computer, the ECU downloads tons of data. It tells the computer what was the top speed you were driving from the last time the data were downloaded, when was the last oil change, and tons and tons of other data. The data are usually only accessible to the car's manufacturer, not the dealer. How these data are used depends on the car manufacturer. Most manufacturers use them to study and improve their products. As far as I know, they have never used them against an owner to deny a warranty claim, unless it is a case of defending themselves in court when sued by the car owner.
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:17 PM   #11
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Not necessarily. By design, it could just have enough memory for 5 seconds of data and constantly rewrite it, like a cassette tape with 5 seconds of tape looped on itself. If you hit record, it will record constantly, but the data from 5 seconds ago is being rewritten with the current data. Besides, why would Chrysler spend extra money to increase the memory capacity of the EDR to record a significant amount of data just to risk getting sued for some sort of violation of privacy if they downloaded and/or released more than the 5 seconds they have the disclaimer for?
Dont be so sure about that, do you know how small and cheap memory is now! Just look at the card you slide into your cell phone. Not to mention it is not storing video, it is only storing text. Do you realize how much text (0and1s) make up 4 gigs of data?

This is just yet another backdoor way to infringe on our rights. Would you believe 20 years ago that government would have the right to frisk anyone to the point that would qualify as sexual assault just to fly in a plane and yet we all sit back and accept it or justify it like Grog did with his Hummer friend?

When the data starts being used against people, or warranties voided due to them, or insurance companies raising your rates, maybe people will wise up. In the meantime, I will not buy a new Jeep. My next will be an old CJ with a carburetor and NO computer.
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:34 PM   #12
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option to off/on

,hi, we as owners should be able to turn off, EDC.
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:40 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Supercop260 View Post
These devices are only a bad thing in the event that you get into some kind of collision and police and/or your insurance company uses the data to show your fault i.e. you weren't wearing a seatbelt or you lied about your speed, etc.

On the other side of the story, I once had an accident investigation where a police officer totaled a patrol car, said he was going the speed limit and that the brakes had failed. I knew he was lying but I couldn't prove it. Once I was able to download the data, not only did I prove the officer was going 50mph OVER the speed limit, but also proved his brakes were working just before the crash...he was just a bad driver doing something stupid and for that he had to pay for a patrol car.

It all depends on how you look at it.
That's the thing...the car has no business recording what I do. Just another example of an out of control government....


/waits for the apologists....
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:40 PM   #14
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Dont be so sure about that, do you know how small and cheap memory is now! Just look at the card you slide into your cell phone. Not to mention it is not storing video, it is only storing text. Do you realize how much text (0and1s) make up 4 gigs of data?

This is just yet another backdoor way to infringe on our rights. Would you believe 20 years ago that government would have the right to frisk anyone to the point that would qualify as sexual assault just to fly in a plane and yet we all sit back and accept it or justify it like Grog did with his Hummer friend?

When the data starts being used against people, or warranties voided due to them, or insurance companies raising your rates, maybe people will wise up. In the meantime, I will not buy a new Jeep. My next will be an old CJ with a carburetor and NO computer.

Exactly. I will be looking into how to turn mine off. Fucking criminals in our gov
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:44 PM   #15
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Ya, it has a voice recorder too.




Most of the Jeep accidents end with:


"Here, hold my beer, check this $hit out!"






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Old 04-19-2012, 07:19 PM   #16
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"Here, hold my beer, check this $hit out!"

Now, that is funny, sad AND true all at the same time!
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:32 PM   #17
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Ya, it has a voice recorder too.




Most of the Jeep accidents end with:


"Here, hold my beer, check this $hit out!"






I had this little punk kid rear end me in my 4runner a few years back and tried taking off in the stolen Cadillac he was driving. As We were chasing him through the city my friend was on the phone with police while an officer was being dispatched to find him. I took a curve really fast and my friend (who was still on the line with 9-11) told me to watch it around the curves cause he was spilling his beer. We finally got the little punk and nothing was said about the beer......
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:42 PM   #18
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Dont be so sure about that, do you know how small and cheap memory is now! Just look at the card you slide into your cell phone. Not to mention it is not storing video, it is only storing text. Do you realize how much text (0and1s) make up 4 gigs of data?

This is just yet another backdoor way to infringe on our rights. Would you believe 20 years ago that government would have the right to frisk anyone to the point that would qualify as sexual assault just to fly in a plane and yet we all sit back and accept it or justify it like Grog did with his Hummer friend?

When the data starts being used against people, or warranties voided due to them, or insurance companies raising your rates, maybe people will wise up. In the meantime, I will not buy a new Jeep. My next will be an old CJ with a carburetor and NO computer.
Not to be an ass, but all data is stored as "0's" and "1's" including video. Computers are binary regardless of what they are storing.

The EDR's are on a ringbuffer (i.e. loop storage device). They may store a "lifetime" of certain static data but it is highly likely this is only engine status codes and thing like over-rev counts. Even then, the lifetime is not determined, so that will be on a overwrite loop.

Long story short, pre-crash event data will be on a ringbuffer.
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:52 PM   #19
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I had this little punk kid rear end me in my 4runner a few years back and tried taking off in the stolen Cadillac he was driving. As We were chasing him through the city my friend was on the phone with police while an officer was being dispatched to find him. I took a curve really fast and my friend (who was still on the line with 9-11) told me to watch it around the curves cause he was spilling his beer. We finally got the little punk and nothing was said about the beer......

Now that's just funny right there!
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:09 AM   #20
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I would think the "Progressive Snapshot" device is a recorder also that u send in to the insurance co. so they can track your driving habits.
That's a bit extreme in my book.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:13 AM   #21
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It only bothers me a little, but let me know how to disable it and I'm all over that crap.
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:24 AM   #22
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OBD II has had a lot of that capability since OBD II came out. Here in ND,
LEO's can only use it for investigative purposes only. They can NOT bring charges against the driver with info found there.
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:34 AM   #23
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I would think the "Progressive Snapshot" device is a recorder also that u send in to the insurance co. so they can track your driving habits.
That's a bit extreme in my book.
They offered me that and I laughed at them.
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Old 04-20-2012, 06:14 AM   #24
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Not to be an ass, but all data is stored as "0's" and "1's" including video. Computers are binary regardless of what they are storing.
I don't think she said otherwise.
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:03 AM   #25
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WHere is EDR located? Does anyone know what connector is used to read it?
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:13 AM   #26
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I am computer geeky guy. I think I will look into this very closely. I'm betting though it will be in a housing that is tamperproof. However, there would be wires routing from it to somewhere that service technicians would be able to patch into. That, my friends is the trail I will be looking for. Stay tuned....

cool site here: http://media.mgnetwork.com/blackbox/

and the NHTSA info: www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/.../Rules/.../EDR_QAs_11Aug2006.pdf

And the long list of vehicles who have them: http://www.bloombergconsulting.com/p..._Box_Guide.pdf
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:27 AM   #27
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I'm not crazy about having an EDR in my vehicle but there is no way I'm going to tamper with it. There is about a 90% chance that anything recorded is going to be in my favor because I don't do stupid stuff behind the wheel, so why would I want to throw that out and instead make myself look guilty by having an intentionally disabled EDR there for the investigator to find?
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:58 PM   #28
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Exclamation

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I'm not crazy about having an EDR in my vehicle but there is no way I'm going to tamper with it. There is about a 90% chance that anything recorded is going to be in my favor because I don't do stupid stuff behind the wheel, so why would I want to throw that out and instead make myself look guilty by having an intentionally disabled EDR there for the investigator to find?

Nicely put, JD!!!!
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Old 06-15-2012, 04:20 PM   #29
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I would think the "Progressive Snapshot" device is a recorder also that u send in to the insurance co. so they can track your driving habits.
That's a bit extreme in my book.
I don't know why anyone would voluntarily submit to that. I still laugh every time I see that commercial. "Flo" can kiss my ***.
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Old 06-15-2012, 05:27 PM   #30
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I'm not crazy about having an EDR in my vehicle but there is no way I'm going to tamper with it. There is about a 90% chance that anything recorded is going to be in my favor because I don't do stupid stuff behind the wheel, so why would I want to throw that out and instead make myself look guilty by having an intentionally disabled EDR there for the investigator to find?
Is your car, your property or not? This is the problem we have now with our freedom being stolen little by little. Either there is private property in this Country or there is not. Don't get me started on property taxes...

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