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Old 08-07-2011, 09:14 PM   #31
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LOL. The last thing I'm going to do is defend Chrysler design and build quality.

But I will get a serious belly laugh at anyone who says that the 3-piece hard top is exactly like T-tops. This is why the body of the car, including rain channels and this stuff that I've heard referred to as "steel" runs through the middle of the plastic -er, I mean glass - panels that are removed. This "steel" substance adds rigidity to body and gives the plastic - I mean glass - removable panels a fixed location to mount to in the center of the vehicle.

Other than that, yes, the Jeep hard top is exactly like T-tops.

As for the convertible part, jz68 has a point. After all, rag tops are as old as the car itself. Today's cars are advanced vehicles with glass windows in the soft tops or in the body, with motorized lifts that clamp the top down on the windshield and the glass windows along the side. Now the Jeep doesn't have these motors or glass side windows, and it is true that the Jeep's top is taller or more like a tent than a simple top, but other than that, it is exactly like a Jeep top. In fact, I'm planning on buying my JK and immediately getting rid of the Jeep top and putting the top from a BMW M3 on it, because it is exactly the same.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go write Sony and criticize them for not having a screen resolution that matches the view out of the front of a Fox-bodied Mustang.

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Old 08-07-2011, 09:17 PM   #32
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Old 08-07-2011, 11:44 PM   #33
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Not sure where anyone gets that Convertible cars don't leak anyways. Just do a Google search on convertible leaks and just about every car forum that has convertibles have a my top leaks thread. Seems like people are making the Jeep out as the only one that does. The thing about problems is if you have them you go to forums to figure out why. So it skews the results as to whose tops leak and don't. I would bet there are a vast majority of wrangler that have never had a issue with leaking beside leaving the top down. You don't need to post threads saying my top doesn't leak.
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Old 08-07-2011, 11:59 PM   #34
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I had an 2000 Sahara for 4 years, and it never leaked unless I didn't secure the top correctly. Of course, it had a good (meaning new) top on it. It was better than I expected, even in the driving rain. As tops get older, they tend to develop leaks, from wear/tear, old zippers, old seals, etc.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:03 AM   #35
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Have only owned my 2012 for 3 days but I have driven it through a rain storm and also washed it today and did not see any visible leaks YET.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:07 AM   #36
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2004 TJ, Dual tops. Bought it new. 70k miles. Will trade it in this week on a JK, and it will have never leaked.

It does have a new soft top due to a tear in the OE, though.

It's a crapshoot. I will say that Jeeps generally are not built to high tolerances and they are the most unique vehicle out there that doesn't have a steel roof. If it leaks new, the dealer should fix it. If it leaks over time, it has performed as expected.

You can't compare the Jeep to anything else, because for good and bad, there is nothing else like it.
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Old 08-08-2011, 05:25 AM   #37
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Have only owned my 2012 for 3 days but I have driven it through a rain storm and also washed it today and did not see any visible leaks YET.
Thanks for the response.
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:11 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by off a cough
It's a crapshoot. I will say that Jeeps generally are not built to high tolerances and they are the most unique vehicle out there that doesn't have a steel roof. If it leaks new, the dealer should fix it. If it leaks over time, it has performed as expected.

You can't compare the Jeep to anything else, because for good and bad, there is nothing else like it.
I completely agree with that. I have a 2010 that's never leaked a drop and a 2011 that's been in multiple times for leaks and I love them both the same!
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:31 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by jz68 View Post
Thanks for the response.
A great majority of your post relate to leaks and trolling posts about engine power. If you want a Wrangler, buy one. If you don't, then move along.

Your questions have been answered over and over. There is no difference between a 2011 top and a 2012 top. Some leak, most don't. Most leaks are caused by user error, the rest can easily be remedied. Jeeps are designed to be driven without tops, including when it rains. That is why the floor has removable drain plugs.
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Old 08-08-2011, 08:33 AM   #40
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I do believe 2012 started leaking even before it left the factory...

Leaking AWESOMENESS, that is....
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Old 08-08-2011, 05:24 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
A great majority of your post relate to leaks and trolling posts about engine power. If you want a Wrangler, buy one. If you don't, then move along.

Your questions have been answered over and over. There is no difference between a 2011 top and a 2012 top. Some leak, most don't. Most leaks are caused by user error, the rest can easily be remedied. Jeeps are designed to be driven without tops, including when it rains. That is why the floor has removable drain plugs.
Tom I know how you feel about Jeeps so with all due respect can treating your soft top with a product like 303 improve the life span of it?

Thanks!
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:06 PM   #42
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My 2011 Jk leaked yesterday and today!!!! first time, but thought its a little water it will be fine, after all it is a Jeep.. My top is off and on all the time, so there is room for error when closing it up. It can be hard sometimes to get the clips over the doors to catch, so right there is where my leaks were ... I would have to say its just one of those things that can happen...
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Old 08-08-2011, 09:11 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by jz68 View Post
Nobody has answered my question. Can you? Oh wait, you're just here to give me a hard time for having an opinion that isn't "OMG the Wrangler is awesome!!!!!"

How about everybody stay the hell out of here unless you can answer my question.
I'm sorry, but I DID answer your question.... They all leak eventually. Every convertible I've owned leaked at some point. None of the vehicles I've owned with sunroofs leaked, even the one with t tops didn't leak, but all 4 of the convertibles did. So, yes, IMO they will all leak. If you can't deal with a little water, what on earth are you doing thinking of buying a Wranger? If water bothers you then mud or dust or dirt or rocks will surely make you blow a gasket and end up in the loony bin.....
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Old 08-08-2011, 10:39 PM   #44
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if it leaks, do you guys just take it to the Jeep service techs and order new stripping/seals? Thanks!
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:26 PM   #45
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if it leaks, do you guys just take it to the Jeep service techs and order new stripping/seals? Thanks!
The simple answer is, generally, no.

The first step in a leak situation is to check to see where it is coming from. A lot of times the leak is caused by the user while assembling and/or installing a roof component. Soft tops tend to leak more than hard tops in my experience and when I get a leak with my soft top, I check to see if I put the top up correctly.

If your top has proven leak proof in the beginning, and surely, leaks on a jeep that is brand new should be solved by the dealer, once the jeep is proven to keep leaks from occurring, the culprit is usually found to be something that the user did.

There are lots of ways to solve leaks. There is published material. This forum is a good source to try and locate and remedy a leak. There is also common sense...that usually works on a first attempt. The important part about a jeep leaking is that it shouldn't be a panic situation. If it is, then maybe a jeep wasn't a good choice. That statement gets back to the OP of the thread.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:27 PM   #46
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It does not matter how much you paid for it... The tops are all the same across the board whether its a hard top or soft.. When you pay 30,000 for a Jeep your paying for all the electronics such nav and blue tooth and leather and better wheels and tires, and more your not paying for a leak free roof... Its the nature of the beast.. My has 3000 miles on it and I paid when all was said and done close to 27,000 and it leaks.. here and there... Look at the roof there is not much too it and in fact sorta a primitive design which is what makes a jeep a jeep... the soft top is meant to go up and down in seconds so with the simplicity of the roof leaves room for leaks. If you don't want leaks, perhaps a Cherokee would be a better choice. Just saying. Leaks or no leaks I am loving every second of owning a jeep and even if a little water trickles down on me. Not to mention, every time it rains and you open a door water always comes in over the seats and rug and even more then a leaky roof, would that be considered a problem as well???? No! it is what its. Look past it loose cork and enjoy the ride... Its to much fun not to....
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:30 PM   #47
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LOL. The last thing I'm going to do is defend Chrysler design and build quality.

But I will get a serious belly laugh at anyone who says that the 3-piece hard top is exactly like T-tops. This is why the body of the car, including rain channels and this stuff that I've heard referred to as "steel" runs through the middle of the plastic -er, I mean glass - panels that are removed. This "steel" substance adds rigidity to body and gives the plastic - I mean glass - removable panels a fixed location to mount to in the center of the vehicle.

Other than that, yes, the Jeep hard top is exactly like T-tops.

As for the convertible part, jz68 has a point. After all, rag tops are as old as the car itself. Today's cars are advanced vehicles with glass windows in the soft tops or in the body, with motorized lifts that clamp the top down on the windshield and the glass windows along the side. Now the Jeep doesn't have these motors or glass side windows, and it is true that the Jeep's top is taller or more like a tent than a simple top, but other than that, it is exactly like a Jeep top. In fact, I'm planning on buying my JK and immediately getting rid of the Jeep top and putting the top from a BMW M3 on it, because it is exactly the same.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go write Sony and criticize them for not having a screen resolution that matches the view out of the front of a Fox-bodied Mustang.

I have to laugh, your way of putting is to funny.. Thanks for the laugh.. let me know what Sony says.. Call Samsung and let them know that my picture is cloudy too....
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:04 PM   #48
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Tom I know how you feel about Jeeps so with all due respect can treating your soft top with a product like 303 improve the life span of it?

Thanks!
I have never used that product so I can't recommend it. I have use Ragtop cleaner and protectant as well as Bestop cleaner and protectant. Those products work very well for me. I started with the Ragtop and when I discovered that Bestop had their own products I switched to them.
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:06 PM   #49
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Hi everyone, this has probably been the most entertaining post I have read in a while, thanks. I wish I had the knowlege to talk about what is what with respect to all the diferent typs of removable, foldable, retractable... you get the idea, all the "able" tops on the market. But I do have a solution that will stop 50% of all leaks in all jeeps no mater the year or type of top and it requires NO MODIFICATIONS can be done at NO COST to the vehicle itself. Here we go,

Move to Canada where water is frozen 6 months of the Year, can't have a leak when it is a solid. The other 50% of the time you will have the top down and wont care...
Cheers
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Old 08-25-2011, 06:26 AM   #50
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What happened...?? They did not deliver your GC or has it been that long already?

za68 - "I'll be picking up my 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee tomorrow. I'll give the Wrangler another look in a few years to see if they've managed to get their act together and design a vehicle where leaks aren't so common. "
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Old 08-26-2011, 04:45 PM   #51
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Mine's been fine so far, but hurricane's a comin!
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Old 08-28-2011, 01:11 PM   #52
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Mine's been fine so far, but hurricane's a comin!
My '12 JKU leaked - hard top. This was after an intense storm last night (hurricane Irene) and while that was unusually strong rain/wind - I'm disappointed in the hard top's failure so early. The leak was not big, but still not happy to see a little water dripping from between the two freedom panels up front. I'm going to inspect further but I know the hard top is on properly. If I can't identify something in the gaskets or how I installed it, the dealership is getting a call.
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Old 08-28-2011, 02:10 PM   #53
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My '12 JKU leaked - hard top. This was after an intense storm last night (hurricane Irene) and while that was unusually strong rain/wind - I'm disappointed in the hard top's failure so early. The leak was not big, but still not happy to see a little water dripping from between the two freedom panels up front. I'm going to inspect further but I know the hard top is on properly. If I can't identify something in the gaskets or how I installed it, the dealership is getting a call.
I would not worry.

My hard/soft tops of yet leaked until last night, only a couple drops-sure the heavy winds and rain did not help.

Bring it to a car wash and see if you can duplicate it again.
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Old 08-28-2011, 05:11 PM   #54
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Only been through one rain storm at night, no leaks as of yet...

I've got a '12 2dr Rubi with the soft top...starting to think that works better than the hard top by all these other threads complaining about the freedom top.
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Old 08-28-2011, 06:14 PM   #55
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Not sure where anyone gets that Convertible cars don't leak anyways.
Yup. We've got a VW Eos and guess what? It leaks.
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Old 08-28-2011, 06:42 PM   #56
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I hate that my first post on this forum is on a "controversial" thread - but, after lurking for a while, and reading up on all I can about the current JK (I've got my order in on a 2012 2 door) - and then reading this thread - I had to chime in.

OP had many legit points. And most posts failed to answer his simple question. Those of you who are experienced in the ways of the Jeep - you're entitled to your opinion just like anyone else - but OP is right. How many response's & replies to his original question did it take for 1 2012 owner to reply? To date - I think we only have 3 2012 owners in total that responded to his initial question: Does your 2012 leak?

Surely, those of you who have owned Jeeps before (or any other vehicle or product), know that besides what is listed as a new feature or option,
manufacturers almost always make other minor modifications and adjustments. I too was curious if anyone noticed anything different with the way the tops were set up. Apparently, they are not.

Asking if the 2012's leak is a SOLID question.

Sorry - but saying "it's a Jeep, it'll leak" is very poor answer. The drain plugs aren't there for "leaks". The drain plugs are there mainly for when you go through water crossings deeper than you anticipated (or planned) and water fills the cabin...or if you covered the inside with mud/dirt/dust and want to hose the thing down; or, if you forgot to put your top on and it rained THAT much that you had to drain the inside (it happens). Implying that because there are drain plugs, you should expect your roof to leak is an almost childish answer.

I've heard many mechanics and guys in shops - including sunroof installers - give the "Sunroof's always leak" - whether it be factory or after market sunroofs. Excuse me, but if you go to any designer of these products and ask them if it's going to leak - they will NEVER say "yes, eventually it will leak" - and will be downright offended if you tell them otherwise. I've known many manufactuers, distributors and installers swear their product is not designed to nor will leak. And mostly, they don't. But, we all know nothing is perfect. And almost all leaks can and are fixed.

I don't care if Jeep Wrangler or any other vehicle soft top has leaked in the past. The goal is to develop something that won't leak.

No manufacturer sells a product that they expect/know will leak the day it rolls off the showroom floor. It's why you can bring your vehicle to the dealership and have them investigate and attempt to REPAIR the leaking. If a dealership or the manufacturer told you to suck it up - "It's a Jeep - it'll leak" - well, anyone with any common sense would sue'em - and win.

As stated previously, there are many factors that come into play with both Jeep tops & other vehicle tops that open/close or come off/on. Often, but not always, it's due to operator error. While design may be very different in a convertable, T-tops, sunroofs, and Jeeps - I can assure you - the manufacturer designs them so they DO NOT LEAK and does NOT expect YOU to just "accept that you Wrangler will leak".

The bottom line, Jeeps should NOT leak. Period. Jeep has NOT fixed the root cause of the issue that causes water to leak in (based on design) as there have been numerous examples of people who've brought home brand new Wranglers that have leaked. Granted, many/most do not - but plenty still do.

*I should add that obviously (or maybe not so obviously), soft tops are designed to have a certain shelf life. They do wear down - and the manufacturers clearly state that proper care will help them live longer - but that eventually, they will need replacement. I get that - and that's NOT what we're talking about here. We're talking about a brand new vehicle that allow water into the passenger compartment. Anything short of full submerssion or operator error - and these tops SHOULD NOT LEAK.
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Old 08-28-2011, 07:20 PM   #57
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@sknyfats

Nice rant. After reading through your post, I didn't see an answer to the OP's question. Something that you were quick to accuse others about.

Regarding a leaking top, I don't think a lot of folks are saying that the jeep is a poor design. If you have read the entire thread, there are a lot of folks who say that there are leaks. With as many as there are sold, the number reporting leaks is probably a very small percentage compared to the total sales. It is a fit and finish issue and usually, the ones delivered with leaks, are fixed by the dealer. Those delivered without leaks that develop leaks are usually the fault of the user not being careful with the handling of the top. The posts that say it is a jeep thing are referring to the fact that, because there is so much seal surface on the jeep, it is just a matter of time before it leaks. The 2012 has no less seal surface so why would we expect it would somehow miraculously be completely free of leaks upon delivery. As with any top that has seals, there will be ones that don't seal well. And yes, anybody who sells a product that is suppose to keep water out will no doubt say it won't leak. Can you imagine a broom salesman who would market their brooms that suck big time but you should buy them anyway? It just doesn't make sense. Jeeps are no different.

The main reason that this thread took a lot of time to get off of the ground is that when the OP posted, the jeep was so new that there has not really been sufficient time for those who have leaks to find this forum and then to report their issues. It will happen and eventually, this thread will be just another leak thread...just like all the others. No product is perfect and since Jeep is such a unique vehicle with so many seal surfaces, the 2012 will be no different than the others...possibly with the exception that there has been some improvements that have lessened the number that leak.
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Old 08-28-2011, 07:30 PM   #58
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@sknyfats

Nice rant. After reading through your post, I didn't see an answer to the OP's question. Something that you were quick to accuse others about.

Regarding a leaking top, I don't think a lot of folks are saying that the jeep is a poor design. If you have read the entire thread, there are a lot of folks who say that there are leaks. With as many as there are sold, the number reporting leaks is probably a very small percentage compared to the total sales. It is a fit and finish issue and usually, the ones delivered with leaks, are fixed by the dealer. Those delivered without leaks that develop leaks are usually the fault of the user not being careful with the handling of the top. The posts that say it is a jeep thing are referring to the fact that, because there is so much seal surface on the jeep, it is just a matter of time before it leaks. The 2012 has no less seal surface so why would we expect it would somehow miraculously be completely free of leaks upon delivery. As with any top that has seals, there will be ones that don't seal well. And yes, anybody who sells a product that is suppose to keep water out will no doubt say it won't leak. Can you imagine a broom salesman who would market their brooms that suck big time but you should buy them anyway? It just doesn't make sense. Jeeps are no different.

The main reason that this thread took a lot of time to get off of the ground is that when the OP posted, the jeep was so new that there has not really been sufficient time for those who have leaks to find this forum and then to report their issues. It will happen and eventually, this thread will be just another leak thread...just like all the others. No product is perfect and since Jeep is such a unique vehicle with so many seal surfaces, the 2012 will be no different than the others...possibly with the exception that there has been some improvements that have lessened the number that leak.


And I offered advice.

Does it say anywhere in the manual that a top will withstand hurricane force winds?

Mine has never leaked a drop until last night with the storm. Guess what? It rained through out the day and no more leaking.
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2007 Rubicon/Rock Krawler triple rate 2.5" coils/RK rear TB w/ a teraflex raised bracket/Rancho 9000 31/32XL shocks/Synergy flipped draglink,ball joints,tie rod /Hankook MT 315-75-16 on Level 8 ZX's/Rancho geo brackets/Ruff stuff uppers/Fox ATS stabilizer/Adams front DS/Artec front armor w/ Currie upper bushings/Rancho cat back exhaust.

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Old 08-28-2011, 08:34 PM   #59
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 147
Washed mine today. Didnt leak
Bronsonbull is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-28-2011, 08:51 PM   #60
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 75
1 wash in so far ... no leak

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