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Old 02-07-2012, 12:24 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willee51 View Post
-----------------
...but here in Central VA where I live, I'm not sure there is anyone I'd trust to do the install

Question: the old dual battery sys I am familiar with had a switch on the lower side of the drivers seat: Bat 1, Bat 2 or Both ..... is this new sys the same
Willee,
In a way, they are the same. Except that the switching is done automatically and using solid state components.

In the old system, you were in charge of the state of the batteries. In short, the states were typically configured as:
1. Battery 1 is connected to the charging system, isolated from Battery 2.
2. Battery 2 is connected to the charging system, isolated from Battery 1.
3. Battery 1 and 2 are connected together, both will charge, not isolated.
As the operator, you had to keep track of the charge state of both batteries, and switch accordingly. Depending on your setup, this could mean that you are constantly switching to charge Battery 2 if you run it down (sometimes forgetting to do so). Or, that you had to have them bridged together, and potentially draining each other, or leaving you vulnerable to running both of them down.

So, the problem that the Smart Isolator solves is essentially knowing when to perform this switching (and also the whole mechanical aspect). Its actually somewhat simple when you break it down. The smart isolator basically does the following:
1. Monitors voltage of batteries.
2. Can detect if charging system is active (when charging, voltage is typically around 14V, and when off, it is about 12V, so its simple to tell..)
3. If charge system is active, and battery 2 is not 100% charged, it will connect Battery 1 + Battery 2 to the charging system to charge both. Otherwise, Battery 1 will recharge to 100%.
4. Maintains Battery 1 and Battery 2 isolated. Typically you set Battery 2 as the accessories Battery, and Battery 1 as reserve for cranking. When the charging system is off (e.g. vehicle off and stationary), you can continue to deplete Battery 2 until 0% charge, but Battery 1 remains ready to crank since it is isolated from draw of the accessories.
5. Other features, depending on isolator, are bridging the batteries for winching to increase available amperage and reduce heat (National Luna does this quite easily via a little control module).

But, you can see how its pretty much the old system, except its somewhat autonomous. There are also some nifty enhancements to the switching to keep electrical noise down. But, it mainly just saves you from having to keep track of the batteries and what their state is, and deciding if one needs charge and all. Cause, the one time you forget to charge #2 is when you'll need it!

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Old 02-07-2012, 01:42 AM   #62
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LOL Thanks, but it's more like, "Just try it. The worse thing is you go to the dealer and buy a new part." Pretty much all you need to do is remove the stock battery. Unclamp the Air box from the the 2 tubes to the engine. Pull up the air box to remove it from it's holder. Unbolt the fusebox and move it over. Un bolt the battery/fusebox/air box tray. Cut the tray. Install new battery/fusebox tray. Reinstall old airbox tray. Install and wire new batteries. The hardest part is lifting the heavy batteries and installing them without denting your rig.

I like the rubber/plastic cap on the Intelligent Solenoid. The Benchmark system comes with a Cole Hersee Smart solenoid which is similar but not all the bells and whistles of a controller. The conections aren't covered and I learned the hard way that you can short ir out if you aren't careful. I'm goint to look into maybe heat wrapping mine for extra protection.
Vin,
You can also add some of those bells and whistles to the Cole Hersee if you'd like. If you look at the datasheet for it, http://www.colehersee.com/assets/fil...v03SmartBI.pdf , you will see that the pig tail has the wires for performing a manual override and bridging the batteries together for self boosting or winching. Just plug the "Boost" wire to 12V DC via a switch. It also has the "Status" wire, that you can wire up as an indicator for when that feature is active. I think Benchmark now sells this add on as well, but its so simple you can make the switch yourself and place it anywhere you want.

Personally, I'll be making my own controller and monitoring solution to integrate better with the Jeep. But, this can be done very cost effectively, with a little time. You can spend as little as $10 on a cheapo solution and get the functionality. I have seen the cigarette lighter plugs at Harbor Freight that will monitor voltage with red to green LEDs, even show when charging is active and okay (~$2). You wire one each to the main and aux battery, and you can monitor their status and know the charging state of each battery, as well as determine if one of them is bad. Obviously, you'd want to remove the components from the cig lighter assembly and put them in something nicer and more compact if going the cheapo route... or not.
Personally, I want to build something very small, much smaller than the National Luna controller, to just allow boost, show boost status via an LED, and display the voltage on each battery in a small, yet fancy package. I can mount this cleanly and take up minimal space. You can piece it together using something like this for example: Amazon.com: Stinger SVMR Voltage Gauge (Red Display): Car Electronics , you can put 2 side by side and monitor voltage independently, or use a solid state double pole double throw type switch so that you can use a single display and switch it between batteries for a small footprint. There are even smaller digital voltmeter guages, that's just the first example that came up on Amazon.
But, I'm sure you get the point. You can go as simple as just connecting 2 of those voltmeters, or adding as much fluff as you want.
Anyway, those were my ideas, and I just wanted to share them even though they're in the rough as of yet, since you already have the kit and seem to be thinking about some of these features.
Let me know if you come up with something for covering the connectors. I'm thinking liquid electrical tape if nothing off the shelf can get the job done. But that stuff can get messy.

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Old 02-07-2012, 06:29 AM   #63
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Vin,
You can also add some of those bells and whistles to the Cole Hersee if you'd like. If you look at the datasheet for it, http://www.colehersee.com/assets/fil...v03SmartBI.pdf , you will see that the pig tail has the wires for performing a manual override and bridging the batteries together for self boosting or winching. Just plug the "Boost" wire to 12V DC via a switch. It also has the "Status" wire, that you can wire up as an indicator for when that feature is active. I think Benchmark now sells this add on as well, but its so simple you can make the switch yourself and place it anywhere you want.

Personally, I'll be making my own controller and monitoring solution to integrate better with the Jeep. But, this can be done very cost effectively, with a little time. You can spend as little as $10 on a cheapo solution and get the functionality. I have seen the cigarette lighter plugs at Harbor Freight that will monitor voltage with red to green LEDs, even show when charging is active and okay (~$2). You wire one each to the main and aux battery, and you can monitor their status and know the charging state of each battery, as well as determine if one of them is bad. Obviously, you'd want to remove the components from the cig lighter assembly and put them in something nicer and more compact if going the cheapo route... or not.
Personally, I want to build something very small, much smaller than the National Luna controller, to just allow boost, show boost status via an LED, and display the voltage on each battery in a small, yet fancy package. I can mount this cleanly and take up minimal space. You can piece it together using something like this for example: Amazon.com: Stinger SVMR Voltage Gauge (Red Display): Car Electronics , you can put 2 side by side and monitor voltage independently, or use a solid state double pole double throw type switch so that you can use a single display and switch it between batteries for a small footprint. There are even smaller digital voltmeter guages, that's just the first example that came up on Amazon.
But, I'm sure you get the point. You can go as simple as just connecting 2 of those voltmeters, or adding as much fluff as you want.
Anyway, those were my ideas, and I just wanted to share them even though they're in the rough as of yet, since you already have the kit and seem to be thinking about some of these features.
Let me know if you come up with something for covering the connectors. I'm thinking liquid electrical tape if nothing off the shelf can get the job done. But that stuff can get messy.
Thanks, lbrito. When I said bells and whistles, I was talking about the all inclusive module that comes with the Luna kit. I am planning on adding voltmeters, and switch/LED. I just need a nice place to put them. I'm thinking the A pillar, but I have until Spring to decide.
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Old 02-17-2012, 06:10 PM   #64
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Such a sweet setup! Its on my to do list along with many other things.
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Old 02-17-2012, 07:18 PM   #65
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...I am planning on adding voltmeters, and switch/LED. I just need a nice place to put them. I'm thinking the A pillar, but I have until Spring to decide.
Nice. I'm a sucker for systems monitoring!
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:23 PM   #66
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Love the final look of your dual system.
I dont need to go that extreme but looking at a dual battery, looking at adding a 7-circuit fuse block as well to power off road lights, winch, cb, and other accesories. Would it be over kill to add the extra battery, and or is the circuit block all I would need to make this all work?

Cheers!
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:40 PM   #67
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For me, the extra battery is for back-up in case the first fails. And I'm out of cell range. And a distance from help.

It's happened. I'm hedging my bets...
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:14 PM   #68
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CG3 - Great info. I was just wondering if you happen to have an sPod for accessories and how this worked out with the wiring.

Thanks
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:21 PM   #69
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No. No accessories other than my winch. One of these days if I want/need switches, I'll most likely go with Simple Solutions JK Switch.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:41 PM   #70
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No accessories other than my winch. One of these days if I want/need switches, I'll most likely go with Simple Solutions JK Switch.
I wanted one of those switch systems too, but they've been in "final design" phase for at least 15 months now since I started inquiring about the product. It sounds like a nice setup, but I wonder when they'll ever release it. I ended up going with the sPOD about a year ago because I couldn't wait.

BTW, I've been watching this thread. I really like your setup. I'll probably be installing a dual battery within a few months. I like the idea of having a backup, and also being able to wire them in series for 24v to power a Ready Welder portable welding unit if needed on the trail. I'm looking at doing the Benchmark Designs Stage 3.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:09 PM   #71
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I have an older model JK (2010) and my favorite part in my Engine Bay.



The sPod was one of my favorite mods. I still need 3 more accessories to add

I have the sPod, my Warn 9.5ti, and CB going to the Aux battery (on the passenger's side) and left all the OE connections on the Main battery (closest to the engine).
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:43 AM   #72
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Nice, the boys in blue look good in there Vin.

Man... you guys are going to sell me on the overly expensive switches

It just looks so simple and plug and play. The EE in me says, don't do it.... but come on.. even a chef goes to a restaurant... right? wait... don't convince me any further.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:04 AM   #73
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Any reason not to run two of the Die Hard Platinum Marine Batteries? The PM-1? Was looking at the P-4 originally but the Marine versions seem to be better on paper. Any reason these wouldn't work?

According to their website:

The Diehard Platinum battery line consists of eight elite batteries. Diehard is only one of two battery brands to offer such a wide selection of AGM battery composition. The other battery brand is Odyssey also made by Enersys, go figure. Sears numbered their new Diehard Platinum batteries for easy consumer selection. The P1, P2, P3, P4, P5, P6, PM1, and PM2. The P stands for Platinum, the M stands for Marine, and the number represents the battery group number. Below is a review of the Diehard Platinum batteries with each batteries manufactured specifications.
The P-1 Platinum Automotive Battery group number 34 from DieHard offers 135 minutes of reserve capacity and 880 cold cranking amps.
The P-2 Platinum Automotive Battery group number 65 from DieHard offers 135 minutes of reserve capacity and 930 cold cranking amps.
The P-3 Platinum Automotive Battery group number 75/86 Dual Terminal from DieHard offers 90 minutes of reserve capacity and 710 cold cranking amps.
The P-4 Platinum Automotive Battery group number 34/78 Dual Terminal from DieHard offers 135 minutes of reserve capacity and 880 cold cranking amps.
The P-5 Platinum Automotive Battery group number 35 from DieHard offers 100 minutes of reserve capacity and 740 cold cranking amps.
The P-6 Platinum Automotive Battery group number 25 from DieHard offers 100 minutes of reserve capacity and 740 cold cranking amps.
The PM-1 Platinum Marine Battery group number 31 from DieHard offers 205 minutes of reserve capacity and 1150 cold cranking amps.
The PM-2 Platinum Marine Battery group number 34 DieHard offers 135 minutes of reserve capacity and 880 cold cranking amps.
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:56 PM   #74
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Nice set up...can you give me the outside dimensions of the two batteries in the tray? I doubt seriously I could make this fit in my 2012, but if it will,,,,, It will be in the works soon. Like you, I depend a lot on the "JU-UICE" this is an excellent set up. Thanks for the post.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:24 AM   #75
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Nice set up...can you give me the outside dimensions of the two batteries in the tray? I doubt seriously I could make this fit in my 2012, but if it will,,,,, It will be in the works soon. Like you, I depend a lot on the "JU-UICE" this is an excellent set up. Thanks for the post.
If you are speaking of my batteries (Optimas...) I'm actually in Death Valley, CA right now... and no access to a tape to measure with. I'll be able to by Thursday or Friday for sure. Send me a pm to remind me please, and I'll be happy to.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:06 AM   #76
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Any reason not to run two of the Die Hard Platinum Marine Batteries?
Every quality battery has a characteristic where it shines and where it doesn't shine. Those are great batteries, more reserve than the Bluetops, better suited for extended drainings.
Where the Optimas shine though is their ability to start the vehicle later, their faster recharge times, and love for abuse.
I happen to think the Yellowtop is the best Jeep battery --- I even use Blues in my trailer for their ability to charge back up quickly off just my alternator (180 amp Power Wagon juicer; don't try this at home...).

If you ever have specific battery questions, ping the company that makes it and tell them what you want to do. They usually have a tech nerd that will help you.
OptimaJim is a member of this forum and would always be there to help you out with questions. Even if it means steering you to another brand.
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:57 PM   #77
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If you are speaking of my batteries (Optimas...) I'm actually in Death Valley, CA right now... and no access to a tape to measure with. I'll be able to by Thursday or Friday for sure. Send me a pm to remind me please, and I'll be happy to.
Well I feel a little stupid. But thanks for putting up with a stupid question asked in the excitement of seeing your set up. I got the dimensions off of the Optima site. No can do I don't think, but I'm determined to get a second battery in the Jeep somewhere.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:24 AM   #78
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Well I feel a little stupid. But thanks for putting up with a stupid question asked in the excitement of seeing your set up. I got the dimensions off of the Optima site. No can do I don't think, but I'm determined to get a second battery in the Jeep somewhere.
I can't think of the name at the moment, but there are manufacturers that make Dual battery trays for Hemi equipted JKs. They are either stacked on top of each other or go along the side instead of next to each other as in the OPs and my set up. They should fit the Penstar engine bay.
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Old 03-03-2012, 08:27 PM   #79
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Finished my dual battery install. 2 blue optima's. They fit better than the yellows.
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Old 03-11-2012, 12:32 PM   #80
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Carolyn, Very clean install, I like the idea of a smart system. Check out Odyssey's site I have had very good luck with their batteries.
Thanks for Posting
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:49 PM   #81
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Look Sparky. Being rude is totally uncalled for. I need this for work. Just because you don't need nor want something like this, gives you no reason to act like a know it all. I actually USE my jeep. I actually make my LIVING using my jeep. And need to take care of myself. And if I spend MY money to do so - that's my choice and my business. Just trying to share and maybe help others here. Don't need your negative comments.

Amen!
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:43 PM   #82
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Thanks Philster
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Old 03-31-2012, 06:39 PM   #83
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I'll probably be installing a dual battery within a few months. I like the idea of having a backup, and also being able to wire them in series for 24v to power a Ready Welder portable welding unit if needed on the trail. I'm looking at doing the Benchmark Designs Stage 3.
And here it is, just installed a couple of hours ago. My winch is wired to a 500A winch fuse mounted behind the smart solenoid. Winch ground and sPOD wired to the auxiliary battery. The smart solenoid has wires coming out of it to connect to the in-cab monitor/controller, which I don't have (YET!).

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Old 03-31-2012, 09:22 PM   #84
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Looks good. It's amazing that it all fits isn't it?

Just wondering.... why did you wire your winch to your auxiliary battery? Does your system allow you to *pair* the two batteries from inside the cab?
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Old 03-31-2012, 10:12 PM   #85
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I've commented here when this thread first began and still don't get it for most of these installations, so maybe someone can enlighten me. Why all this hardware and even more components that could go wrong, just for having dual batteries. I mean what does it take to raise the hood and turn a marine selector switch to either 1, 2, or both by hand? Run both batteries for charging or extra power when needed and one at a time for boon docking, so that you can switch over to the fresh one at will and especially if you left the TV, DVD, etc.... and inverter on all night.
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Old 03-31-2012, 10:35 PM   #86
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How about different strokes for different folks We pick our own battles... and follow our own paths for our own reasons? I'm not sure why you want to be *enlightened* ?
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Old 03-31-2012, 10:36 PM   #87
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It's amazing that it all fits isn't it?
It fits, but it's not going to be fun replacing the passenger side spark plugs.

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Just wondering.... why did you wire your winch to your auxiliary battery? Does your system allow you to *pair* the two batteries from inside the cab?
I don't have the in-cab monitor/controller yet, and I don't know if it will give me that capability. Benchmark Designs recommends connecting the winch and all accessories to the auxiliary battery, so I'm just going with their recommendation. I got their system with the winch fuse, and it came already mounted and wired to the auxiliary battery lead.

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I've commented here when this thread first began and still don't get it for most of these installations, so maybe someone can enlighten me. Why all this hardware and even more components that could go wrong, just for having dual batteries. I mean what does it take to raise the hood and turn a marine selector switch to either 1, 2, or both by hand? Run both batteries for charging or extra power when needed and one at a time for boon docking, so that you can switch over to the fresh one at will and especially if you left the TV, DVD, etc.... and inverter on all night.
The question "why dual batteries" has already been answered. The question "why use a smart solenoid as opposed to a manual switch" can be answered with the question "why wait until one battery dies and then switch over manually, when you can have a smart solenoid monitor the battery levels and automatically switch it for you".
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:17 PM   #88
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How about different strokes for different folks We pick our own battles... and follow our own paths for our own reasons? I'm not sure why you want to be *enlightened* ?
I've learned much and have changed my mind about plenty of things over the years, so how about if I ever decide to install my own dual setup, I'll be more informed for battle and possibly use a different stroke as you put it.
I'm not sure why you appear to have taken offense to another opinion in an area of learning and suggestion, while your comments didn't offer any pros and cons whatsoever. Consequently, I learned absolutely nothing from you!
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:22 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by tropical36 View Post
I've learned much and have changed my mind about plenty of things over the years, so how about if I ever decide to install my own dual setup, I'll be more informed for battle and possibly use a different stroke as you put it.
I'm not sure why you appear to have taken offense to another opinion in an area of learning and suggestion, while your comments didn't offer any pros and cons whatsoever. Consequently, I learned absolutely nothing from you!
Ouch.... I didn't take offense.... I really was just stating.... different strokes for different folks I stated all my reasons why early on in this thread that I started..... and didn't think it needed repeating?
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:48 PM   #90
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Ouch.... I didn't take offense.... I really was just stating.... different strokes for different folks I stated all my reasons why early on in this thread that I started..... and didn't think it needed repeating?
OK, maybe it's just been a long day and getting late, so with that I'll say goodnight...

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