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Old 12-06-2011, 04:27 PM   #1
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Eight weeks waiting and seats are wrong

Stopped by the dealer today to drop off a few items they are supposed to be installing on our new Rubicon unlimited and was surprised when they told me the Jeep had just arrived this afternoon. It was fairly dark and rainy but I was excited and wanted to get a brief look at it so with phone camera in hand to show the husband the first thing I saw was that the Katzskin custom seats we ordered to be done while at the factory ($1500) were wrong. We went with a black and tan two-tone as well as black and tan dash only to find our seats are all black. Tracking the build on VOTS it was listed as a two-tone until last week when it showed black. Given all the issues with VOTs I didnt take it too seriously but did note the change to my sales guy at the time.

What to do?? To take it back and have them redone is not a great option - we gave up our trade more than a month ago and have been limping with one car expecting to get the Jeep earlier rather than the later side. Plus, I don't want to go into winter without another vehicle. Did I mention it took 8 weeks to get this one?? Talked to my husband at work and emailed him photos of the interior and his feeling was what is there is passable but we didn't want or order all black for one it is very hot in the summer and now we have a two tone dash and no two tone seats to match. He really wants what we ordered except he agreed with me that we can't wait another two months for them to redo the seats. Since the dealer was putting this in our lap, my husband's suggestion was to push for half the cost of the seat. Sensing they might settle there I decided to start out high and told the GM I wanted full compensation for the seats noting that at the first mistake was that the sales record and the website both showed two tone until recently and second was that at no time did anyone communicate to us our choice wasn't an option. Then I plainly stated it would cost him/Chrysler more for someone to come get the Jeep, transport it to a Katzskin installer, rip out the current leather and re-do, plus I would insist on a loaner car in the meantime. The GM called his boss who has to go to hers and so on. Was told I might hear something tomorrow. Not likely and we were supposed to take her home Friday.

As the afternoon wore on and calls kept coming my husband was getting more and more steamed - he's ready to walk if they won't do anything and would have done so by now if it wasn't for the fact that we have a few thousand tied up in accessories, snow tires and new rims which would be hard to return if even at all possible.

What would you do? Any suggestions on bartering or negotiating a better or another deal on the seats? Free oil changes maybe, free service??

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Old 12-06-2011, 05:00 PM   #2
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Why can't the dealer order and install the correct Katzkins? They're usually a dealer installed option aren't they?

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Old 12-06-2011, 05:35 PM   #3
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I agree! Either have them discount the black seat covers or order the correct set and install them on their dime. In the mean time you take possession of the jeep while waiting for the new covers to arrive.
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Old 12-06-2011, 05:37 PM   #4
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I would take delivery and demand a "we Owe" from the dealership. They can order the seats and install them when they arrive. For what you paid, there is no room for compromise or consolations. Make sure that you get in writing that they owe you the seats and the install @ no charge.

I would also call Chrysler and let them know that you are not happy about the situation .
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:19 PM   #5
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2012 has a factory option, which is not an aftermarket add on like katzkin.

IMO, I prefer the all black dash and seats, so... um... I'd suggest asking for free install on the parts you're bringing and be done with it.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:47 PM   #6
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Chrysler Trucks (Production Updates)

Jeep Wrangler

8-10 (A)
  • Final production scheduled to end::
    • Cosmos Blue (PB4) - 11/21/11
  • Initial Production is scheduled to begin for:
    • Black Mopar Slush Mats (CWZ) - 11/15/11
    • Katzkin Deluxe Leather 2-Tone (AJC) - 12/05/11
    • Customer Preferred Package (2TV) - 12/07/11
    • Gecko Pearl Coat (PFM) - 01/09/12
    • Winter Chill Pearl Coat (PBA) without Arctic Package (AAH) - 02/01/12


  • just saw this in an unrelated thread, says that seat option only started yesterday
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:57 PM   #7
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These seats are covered leather over the cloth, done when car was at the factory (seats were sent to an installer in the Toledo area). Wanted it to arrive done because we live in rural Vermont so I'm pretty sure there are no installers in the area I could have taken it to. Also, don't think the dealer does these.

I too saw that post about two tone being available 12/5 which is what caused me to check our order on VOTS and notice it went from two tone listing to black and ask our dealer about it. Still, our Jeep was there last week and if two tone wasn't available no one contacted the dealer or us about this, never. If they did we would have likely said ok to black but go back and make the dash all black too.

Dealer was happy to totally pin this on Katzskin's issue meaning it is up to them to rectify. They also tried the "you already got a great deal with the Affinity pricing" line with me. A friend of mine commented when she heard this that a good dealer would have called me with the news and offered a few options and not let me go there to discover this on my own with the line "hoping you wouldn't notice."

And yes, could we accept black seats -- probably, but again if I knew I could only do black initially then I never would have gotten two tone dash. Thing was, at the time we ordered we were on the track to get cloth but were concerned it would make the car smell doggy and that covers would be too much to get on and off; we didn't like the look and feel of the factory leather as we had seen it in person but were then told of the Katzskin option. Husband balked and said too much - I countered with close to the same as Jeep leather or cloth with covers so we started to cave. Since there were several design options we asked to go on the website to see what two tone meant so I could see it and we even got on the phone with the company to discuss how it looks and how to code it in the order. Lots of evidence we ordered right and they messed it up. In the end we we likely take the car but want to be able to push for everything we can get from them for the grief. Remember a thread a short while back where people were listing the gimmies the dealers threw in for them. Seems to me if they won't give me full price on the seats back then half and a few oil changes would be fair, and the install of the mud guards for free (no comments please we have a serious mud season here in the spring.

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Old 12-06-2011, 07:07 PM   #8
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I would want new seats. I'm also very adamant about a lighter, matching interior.

Sorry to hear about your troubles...keep us informed.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:13 PM   #9
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FWIW, a two-tone Katzkin option was available when I placed my order on 10/6, and I really liked the idea of two-tone seats - but it had just been made available within days and I couldn't get a single answer out of anyone as to what they looked like. That's with my dealer supposedly calling their local Chrysler rep (doubt they actually made a call), and me calling Jeep and Katzkin. So I didn't order it.

It sounds like you got a better description, and it didn't come in looking like it should have, so I agree with others that you should try to get them to order the correct leather and install at their cost.

If you're worried about how the leather looks, my buddy installed his own two-tone Katzkin set in an hour or two, and you couldn't tell it wasn't from the factory. Good luck.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:25 PM   #10
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So what you are saying is dealer can order bucket and bench two tone leather seat covers And we can install semi easily ourselves? Hadnt considered that. Probably would prefer someone professional do it but at least that's more ammo to take to the dealer. Thanks.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:55 PM   #11
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Ask the dealer to decide which he would rather
A. change brown dash to black
B. change black covers to two tone
Let the dealer choose if you can live with/enjoy either of these two options
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:59 PM   #12
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If it's only the seats (front and/or rear) that you're unhappy with, and not the dash/doors/etc., then yes, it's a pretty easy fix.

I wouldn't volunteer to install them myself...but maybe as a final negotiating point, try "well, you buy the new leather, and I'll figure out how to put it in" or something to that effect.

IIRC, my friend paid +/- $700 for the front and rear leather, ordered from someone that's a sponsor on some of the forums, but I don't remember who. Based on that, I'd guess the dealer can get them for even less.

Haven't looked, so haven't seen any for sale - but I suspect if you were able to keep the covers you have/don't like, you could get a decent price for them from someone that wants leather. If everything fell into place, you might even be able to make a few bucks for your trouble.

BTW, I'm assuming you know this, but Katzkin's website has a crazy configurator where you can play with the thousands of color and two-tone style combinations. You can also order leather swatches from a few different sources for 10-20 bucks.
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Old 12-07-2011, 05:58 AM   #13
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There is nothing unusual with waiting 8 weeks. The average time is 6-8 wks and sometimes it takes longer. With the seat situation, I think the only option is to work it out with the dealer; either less cash, comps or a seat redo if you can't live with the black. I think if you walk you lose more than they do. Try being calm and reasonable and ratch it up only if you have to.
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:26 AM   #14
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My salesman just called - says Chrysler rep's answer is no compensation -- $$00 -- for the mistake, says black was the only ever option and never two tone despite seeing it in the paperwork we were given and posted on VOTS during build. I went ape sh## on the dealer and asked him if his best offer to me was seriously, nothing. I said at the least they should have met us in the middle and offered some gimmies. Then I said you have the power there to make this better. No mud guard install free, no oil change?? He says "oh we could probably do something like that but I'd have to talk to my GM." WTF. Why didn't they have that talk before he called me. I told him he had one more chance to make things right and when he got back to me it better be their best offer to make me happy. Waiting to hear now.
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:32 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by goofygrin View Post
2012 has a factory option, which is not an aftermarket add on like katzkin.

IMO, I prefer the all black dash and seats, so... um... I'd suggest asking for free install on the parts you're bringing and be done with it.
It may come from the factory but if its Katzkin its still aftermarket no matter how you look at it. The same thing can be installed at a "Authorized" Katzkin installer. I had it done to a 4runner I bought a few years back cause I didn't want a Limited and they had the Sport I wanted on the lot. They installed it before I picked it up and you would never known the difference unless you knew that the factory ones are single color and not 2toned.....
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:55 AM   #16
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My salesman just called - says Chrysler rep's answer is no compensation -- $$00 -- for the mistake, says black was the only ever option and never two tone despite seeing it in the paperwork we were given and posted on VOTS during build. I went ape sh## on the dealer and asked him if his best offer to me was seriously, nothing. I said at the least they should have met us in the middle and offered some gimmies. Then I said you have the power there to make this better. No mud guard install free, no oil change?? He says "oh we could probably do something like that but I'd have to talk to my GM." WTF. Why didn't they have that talk before he called me. I told him he had one more chance to make things right and when he got back to me it better be their best offer to make me happy. Waiting to hear now.
Wow...that sucks. I would print-screen the Jeep Website. It says right on it...Katzkin Deluxe Leather TWO-TONE seats. You could have saved money and ordered the stock factory leather if you wanted all black. I wonder if they have you black leather instead of two-tone? Or does Jeep they they are the same thing?

Not sure if you have driven it off the lot yet.
Is it too late to refuse delivery?
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:19 PM   #17
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I'm with Panther, screen-shot the site with the "2-tone leather Katzkin" on it and take it in. Consumers have more rights than these dealers would like you to know........
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:21 PM   #18
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It may come from the factory but if its Katzkin its still aftermarket no matter how you look at it. The same thing can be installed at a "Authorized" Katzkin installer.
I could be mistaken, but it's my understanding that Katzkin is the OEM supplier for all leather in the Wranglers - in other words, even the regular black or saddle leather is made by Katzkin, and the two-tone is just another option installed on the regular assembly line and just includes the "Katzkin" brand on it to sound more exclusive. Remember, the entire Wrangler production facility isn't even really a Chrysler facility - it's a collection of suppliers building their respective parts of the Jeep, with Chrysler doing some of the final bits.
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:28 PM   #19
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I could be mistaken, but it's my understanding that Katzkin is the OEM supplier for all leather in the Wranglers - in other words, even the regular black or saddle leather is made by Katzkin, and the two-tone is just another option installed on the regular assembly line and just includes the "Katzkin" brand on it to sound more exclusive. Remember, the entire Wrangler production facility isn't even really a Chrysler facility - it's a collection of suppliers building their respective parts of the Jeep, with Chrysler doing some of the final bits.
Either way, Katzkins is still really good quality. I would just try to push the issue and make then swap out the black for the new 2tones. And its not like they would really be losing money because the solid black seats could alway be put on another Jeep and resold. Dealers put aftermarket add-ons on Jeeps all the time......Anyway, I hope you do get what you want because its a lot of money and a VERY nice ride.....
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:29 PM   #20
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How do i do a post?like my own so i can have people help me?
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:33 PM   #21
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My salesman just called - says Chrysler rep's answer is no compensation -- $$00 -- for the mistake, says black was the only ever option and never two tone despite seeing it in the paperwork we were given and posted on VOTS during build.
That's BS. If they even talked to "the Chrysler rep". Just trying to make Chrysler look like the bad guy. It's a flat out lie that black was the only option - I watched the order screen as we were building mine, and literally checked the box, then had him uncheck it. Pretty sure it was a $500 upcharge since we had already selected leather (might have been $600 though). Again, this was on 10/6.

I'm curious, what does the window sticker show? I'm assuming it just shows the regular $900 leather option? Do you have any print out of the POC or VOTS, or anything else that shows the two-tone on your order?

Unfortunately, regardless of what some posters perceive as "your rights" - if the order is messed up, but they aren't charging you for something they're not giving you - you're basically at the mercy of the dealer and screwed if they don't do anything to make it right. (If you paid for it, but don't get it, that's another story.) My guess is 9 out of every 10 Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge dealers is utterly incompetent/inconsiderate - if not worse - and no matter how much kicking and screaming you do, they aren't going to change.

Good luck with everything.
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:34 PM   #22
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So sorry to hear about this. I can't offer much help except to say that, if it were me, I'd walk. From what folks on here and other forums have said, 8 weeks is completely normal for delivery (some may even say its fast).

I've also seen folks on other forums do the Katzkin install themselves- some have gone well, some not as well. If I did a job like that and tore the material or messed up in some other way, I'd never stop thinking about it and would regret my decision every time I stepped foot in the Jeep (that's just me).

It's a tough spot to be in. But I know how much research I've been doing since deciding that I was going to purchase a jeep (months ago). It took a while, but I've finally found a jeep and dealership that I'm happy with (i'm not doing a custom order), at the right price / financing. I should be purchasing this weekend (hopefully).

To have spent this much time and not be satisfied at pickup, I'd be furious. But I'd also be armed with the right information to get the same exact deal at another dealership since I live in an area where we have options (and I've already confirmed pricing with those options). I would 100% take my business elsewhere, even if I had to wait weeks to make it happen.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:40 PM   #23
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How do i do a post?like my own so i can have people help me?

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Old 12-07-2011, 12:41 PM   #24
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The fact you gave up your trade already is really the biggest hindrance. That puts dealer in position of power.

You could contact diff dealer and see if they have a jeep with all the options you want minus the two tone leather. Buy from them and see if they can take couple hundred off leather for you. Explain your story. Salesman love that bc easy sale and they know you're a buyer, not a tire kicker Meaning not wasting their time. Use to advantage.
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:45 PM   #25
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My salesman just called - says Chrysler rep's answer is no compensation -- $$00 -- for the mistake, says black was the only ever option and never two tone despite seeing it in the paperwork we were given and posted on VOTS during build. I went ape sh## on the dealer and asked him if his best offer to me was seriously, nothing. I said at the least they should have met us in the middle and offered some gimmies. Then I said you have the power there to make this better. No mud guard install free, no oil change?? He says "oh we could probably do something like that but I'd have to talk to my GM." WTF. Why didn't they have that talk before he called me. I told him he had one more chance to make things right and when he got back to me it better be their best offer to make me happy. Waiting to hear now.
This sucks. If you end up getting nothing file a BBB complaint on them. For some reason they bend over backwards to settle these complaints
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Old 12-07-2011, 02:09 PM   #26
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Seems to be some confusion as I read these responses as to what our seats are -- they are an option from Jeep/katzkin that we chose at the initial time of order. A $1500 upgrade to do leather/heated seat combo -- and different from the black or tan factory "upgrade" pleather - they start with cloth seats and add the katzkin leather at an outside installer. We live in an area where there are no installers that I know of anywhere near here and no other Jeep dealers under 90 miles and my husband is not handy hence having it done before it arrived.

So yes the paperwork showed two tone from day one through week about 7 on VOTS. They have the proof, they explained it all to the big wigs and allegedly the answer was $0 but I guess I made a better point because the dealer just called and offered to lower the price of our deal by $700. I am about to counter with free mud guard install, no charge to unbolt the soft top, $700 and at least one "we owe free oil change." We'll see what happens.....
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Old 12-07-2011, 02:32 PM   #27
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^Yeah...my guess is that someone at Jeep got confused with the order and thought Katzkins were simple the "new" Black leather option.

The way I understand it:
Heated Saddle leather - $900
Heated Black leather - $900
Heated Katzkin - $1500

Good luck....
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Old 12-07-2011, 03:13 PM   #28
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Sorry, was just trying to help. I wasn't confused, just asking questions, but your answers are just adding confusion.

Paperwork is paper - it doesn't change, it's on paper. If by "paperwork", you mean what a computer screen shows you, that's just a snapshot in time - completely meaningless when you're trying to make your case to the dealer. VOTS is also meaningless. (It showed I ordered a MW3:COD for a month.) Sounds like you don't have anything PRINTED that says you ordered $1,500 two-tone Katzkin seats.

What are you paying (or have paid) for your seats?!? If it's $1,500 and they're just black leather, then they're STEALING $600 from you - hence the reason they're offering $700. If it's $1,500, then surely the window sticker says two-tone leather, no? So I'm guessing you're paying $900 for the seats.

If you're getting $700 off $900 seats, that seems like a pretty fair offer from them - and much better than waiting another 8 weeks. You could sell your black seat covers (I'm guessing +/-$500??) and have $1,300 to put towards Katzkins - which should result in the seats you want and money in your pocket after all is said and done.

FWIW, the factory leather is leather, not pleather. It's a different grade leather than the Katzkin aftermarket or special order options. They're installed in the factory, not over cloth. That's why I said it's very likely the Katzkin option you thought you ordered are also installed in the factory at the time the vehicle is built, just like the "regular" leather seats. Either way, that's not really important/relevant to your situation.
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Old 12-08-2011, 06:43 AM   #29
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The reason I said people are being confused is because some are thinking I am talking about the basic leather seat option Jeep offers at $900 which I wasn't aware were katzkins but I'm not. That's not the choice I am referring to that we made. We upgraded the upgrade. What we ordered was different - a new option that had just become available, an upgrade to the mixed leather trim/vinyl seat offering. A full leather Katzkin seat in soft black hence nearly twice the price of the other. We didn't like the feel or the look of the Jeep leather so we went with a pricier option we were told was available in black or black/tan combo at the same cost of $1500. Liked the second one, liked the look, etc. and so ordered that after viewing photos and being told by the leather company whom we called from the dealer that it was an option.

And yes I was told the seat starts out as the cloth seat with heater and the leather is installed over it.

All of our paperwork dating from day one shows we ordered the Katzkin upgrade in two tone as a $1500 separate option. Window sticker reads black $1500 as well and yes the issue began with the dealer saying they were charging us the full $1500 for a seat that arrived wrong. Took it to their superiors who said and their argument was they did their part right - Katzkin made the error or did not communicate black as an only option at any point so there was no need to stand behind it or rectify it. Sorry no we didn't cause this issue we are not going to reimburse them for the seats or get them the right ones. Take the car or leave it. The dealer asked the Chrysler rep to call us personally and explain this but no one called here. I even did a Google search and told the dealer to do the same so he could see the multiple different websites Katzkin two tone seats are showing as an option with the Jeep including the jeep's own website. Nothing. No traction.

Getting the correct seat was now not an option the dealer would help us with because they needed their superiors to fight the battle. Apparently the GM got into a heated debate with the Chrysler rep about not supporting this but in the end he was shot down. What do we do with virtually no leverage - they have our trade, we'd owe tax on it if we cashed the check (about $2000) and we were sitting on $2000 or more in accessories which can't be returned and we don't have another 8 weeks to wait for a Jeep (like I would order another anyway). And no, one like we ordered does not exist on a lot somewhere. We looked.

So the only thing I could hope to do is not let them see me sweat and push the dealer for some pity money. By mid day yesterday the best they could come up with was $700 and said the additional request I made to have them throw in an oil change and mud guard install and soft top removal on top of what was rejected. I wanted to walk and my husband said we'd loose too much if we did. So in the end we are saying we'll take the car and the dealer is paying for half of the $1500 seat cost. At least we qualified for 0% financing...

Picking it up tomorrow...
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Old 12-08-2011, 06:56 AM   #30
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