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Old 03-04-2013, 03:47 PM   #1
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Excessive detonation / pinging?

I found one thread on this from 2012 and it looks like guys are just using 91/93 octane gas - I don't see that as being a reasonable fix for the Pentastar. Is anyone else experiencing this? I know winter grade gas is not as good, but it's already warm here in TX and I am getting detonation in every gear. 6k miles on this thing and it seems to have only appeared in the last 1k miles or so. Anyone got any ideas on remedying this?

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Old 03-04-2013, 11:29 PM   #2
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I too experienced pinging last summer. Alternating between regular unleaded and mid grade gas at fill ups worked for me. Some members have had success using Techron every few thousand miles.

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Old 05-06-2013, 05:28 PM   #3
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Ok, so I got my JK in September of last year. Pinging has just started this spring (past couple of weeks). Tried a tank with Techron additive, but it made no difference.

I don't think it is a carbon problem, as I only have 12k miles. I think it is simply poor engine management, the likes of which a typical dealer will be unable to cope with.

My guess is that the system is leaning out too much in response to the warmer intake temps, and the PCM is unable to respond sufficiently to the knock sensor inputs to bring things back in line.

Searching the forums for solutions yields only one sure fire fix: higher octane. I just put in 10 gallons of 93 on top of the 87 that was in my tank to start with. Audible detonation is gone.

I'll try 89 octane on the next tank and see how that goes but, based on the ugliness of the pinging that I was having, my assumption is that I will need to use the premium stuff to keep the knocks away this summer.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:19 PM   #4
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What kind of rpms are you guys turning when the pinging is happening? Not liking the sound of this.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:05 PM   #5
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22k on a 2012 Pentastar and nary a ping. Have only ever run 87 octane.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:10 PM   #6
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What kind of rpms are you guys turning when the pinging is happening? Not liking the sound of this.
It would happen to me when accelerating normally from a stop.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:06 PM   #7
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Pinging happens to me throughout the rev range, but most prominent in the 1700 to 2200 range after upshifting. This has only begun to occur as ambient temps have increased. I can also hear pinging at higher RPM's when under load. My engine does not like the combination of warm temps and 87 octane. I seriously doubt that a dealer will be able to help.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:16 PM   #8
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What does this pinging sound like? can someone describe it in detail?
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:21 PM   #9
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22k on a 2012 Pentastar and nary a ping. Have only ever run 87 octane.
Do you have an auto or manual?
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:25 PM   #10
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What does this pinging sound like? can someone describe it in detail?
Variable frequency/intensity of small hammer impacts on a large block of metal. That's what it sounds like to me. It is painful for me to listen to it. Sounds like motor is in self destruct mode
to me when it gets bad.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:39 PM   #11
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What does this pinging sound like? can someone describe it in detail?
For lack of a better description, think Diesel engine sound.
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:23 PM   #12
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What temps is this happening at? Ive had mine in about 100* so far, and no ping, but the Jeep only has 1400 miles.
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:30 PM   #13
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Mine is pinging at just mid 70's temps.
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:59 PM   #14
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Do you have an auto or manual?
Manual
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Old 05-07-2013, 07:36 PM   #15
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What temps is this happening at? Ive had mine in about 100* so far, and no ping, but the Jeep only has 1400 miles.
My pinging occurred on days when the temps reached about 80F and higher.
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Old 05-07-2013, 07:51 PM   #16
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If I reset the computer (there's a thread somewhere describing the procedure) the pinging goes away for a few days before the CPU re-learns. I just hope they will come out with a reflash for the problem at some point. Since it only effects a limited number of our Jeeps I assume its a sensor on the edge of being out of spec. Might be the IAT sensor. Since they are cheap I may pickup another next time I'm at the dealer.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:18 PM   #17
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If I reset the computer (there's a thread somewhere describing the procedure) the pinging goes away for a few days before the CPU re-learns. I just hope they will come out with a reflash for the problem at some point. Since it only effects a limited number of our Jeeps I assume its a sensor on the edge of being out of spec. Might be the IAT sensor. Since they are cheap I may pickup another next time I'm at the dealer.
I'm thinking of doing the same with the IAT. Cheap and easy.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:36 PM   #18
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Maybe also a "freaky" knock sensor or MAP sensor?

Here are the part numbers and dealer prices:

5149 182AB SENSOR AIR TEMPERATURE $17.25

5149 188AA SENSOR KNOCK (2 Required) $4.85 each

5149 174AB SENSOR MAP $11.50
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:09 PM   #19
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I think the culprit might be the O2 sensors. They are what tells the computer what the exhaust looks like and if they are telling it the wrong thing then you get a lean condition and pining. You might have to get them to use their computer to see what the fuel trim looks like.

I don't work on Jeeps so I don't know what all their computer can read but would assume that it can look at this. I use what Ford calls an IDS to look at what Ford vehicles are doing. We can look at each O2 sensor and see what it is doing and also the long and short term fuel trims. I bet we now have the new style of O2s on our Jeeps and they don't seem to work as well as the old styles did.

We also use a mass air flow (MAF) on Ford. Only time I have seen this problem with pinging it was either the MAF or the O2s and with the new style O2s have seen them cause this more than anything else.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:18 PM   #20
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I had the pinging. Went to 91/93 octane. It started when it was 30-40 degrees outside.
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:26 AM   #21
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I think the culprit might be the O2 sensors. They are what tells the computer what the exhaust looks like and if they are telling it the wrong thing then you get a lean condition and pining. You might have to get them to use their computer to see what the fuel trim looks like.

I don't work on Jeeps so I don't know what all their computer can read but would assume that it can look at this. I use what Ford calls an IDS to look at what Ford vehicles are doing. We can look at each O2 sensor and see what it is doing and also the long and short term fuel trims. I bet we now have the new style of O2s on our Jeeps and they don't seem to work as well as the old styles did.

We also use a mass air flow (MAF) on Ford. Only time I have seen this problem with pinging it was either the MAF or the O2s and with the new style O2s have seen them cause this more than anything else.
My dealer simply says knock is normal and won't check it out. Since O2 are a bit pricey to replace let me tell you the circumstances for the worst pinging and see what you think.

In my case engine knock occurs primarily in two situations. When I've been driving for at least 20 minutes and have been in stop and go traffic it comes on bad at light throttle around 1400rpm up to 2000rpm. After I'm on the highway a while or in steady state driving it lessens back to what I wold think is occasional pinging.
The second case is if the engine has been shut off for 30 minutes and then I restart to go somewhere the pinging is very bad right after start up for any type of acceleration until its been driven a few miles.

Both cases would make me think it's a hot intake situation which leads me to suspect the IAT sensor, but I'm not a diagnostic tech mechanic.

Since I don't have access to test equipment which sensors would you suspect first?
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:59 AM   #22
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Try taking off the plastic engine cover and see if that helps. The cover is lined with a molded foam that will keep the intake insulated which will hold heat. I have a 12 Sport and took mine off as soon as I bought it I have no ping and have been in 90 + degree weather.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:17 AM   #23
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Try taking off the plastic engine cover and see if that helps. The cover is lined with a molded foam that will keep the intake insulated which will hold heat. I have a 12 Sport and took mine off as soon as I bought it I have no ping and have been in 90 + degree weather.
Better yet ice it down...

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Old 05-08-2013, 10:55 AM   #24
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Besides octane differences - who's running ethanol/E10 versus 100% gas? There might be issues involving E10 as well, when we go home to Wisconsin we always notice a lot of vehicles are pinging and backfiring, and there's hardly any 100% stations there.

As a side note, try a different station. I thought I was being good to my new 2005 TJ when I bought it and I took it to Shell for gas. I used 100% 87 octane, but noticed it was pinging. Since it had a warranty I took it in. The dealer worked on finding the issue but couldn't pin it down. They did agree it sounded odd. I was stranded in the boonies a few weeks later and bought gas at a truck stop as an emergency. 100% no brand name 87 octane gas. The pinging stopped within 2 miles. I started using other gas since then, no more pinging and I saved money too.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:41 PM   #25
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Never hurts to try different gas. Not a fan of just changing stuff without looking at data, but if you gota you gota. Things that the pcm use for fuel ratio are IAT, CHT/ECT, MAF, BARO and then it looks at the O2s for feedback on the exhaust for rich or lean mix.

If you have a leak in the intake system after the MAF that can throw off the computer and then you can get a bad ratio and the computer will not be able to correct it. Could also have an injector or two that are not flowing the correct amount of fuel when turned on.

I would also look for a different dealer if they say pinging is normal. That is total BS and they need to be reported to headquarters. They should have a system that lets them look at the flow of each injector, and all the other things that are used in the engine for normal running.

We have a generic mode for our IDS that Ford provided to us for free that lets us at least scan codes and do a few things on other than Ford. Have never had it on my Jeep since I have never had any problems with my 09 for 62000 miles. This weekend I will bring mine home and hook it up to my Jeep and see what all it will let me check. If it can show me the right stuff all you would have to do is find a friendly Ford tech that has his own IDS and the generic software loaded and then you would be in business. I will check this out and let you know.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:19 PM   #26
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:02 PM   #27
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I too had a rough sounding motor running 87 octane gas. I wouldn't call it quote un quote detonation. Really what it sounded like to me was just a very rough driveline. Which jeeps are notorious for anyways. With that being said i did fill it up with 89 and it does seem more quiet, and healthier. Im just having a tough time wrapping my head around the idea of a motor with a compression ratio in the 10s detonating on 87 octane fuel. Ive seen guys put 87 (not that i recommend it) in high compression (11+) motorcycle motors and not heard detonation ; and they are much more strung out then our jeeps. Id really like to know the cause. I just dont believe that it is true detonation.
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:20 PM   #28
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I too had a rough sounding motor running 87 octane gas. I wouldn't call it quote un quote detonation. Really what it sounded like to me was just a very rough driveline. Which jeeps are notorious for anyways. With that being said i did fill it up with 89 and it does seem more quiet, and healthier. Im just having a tough time wrapping my head around the idea of a motor with a compression ratio in the 10s detonating on 87 octane fuel. Ive seen guys put 87 (not that i recommend it) in high compression (11+) motorcycle motors and not heard detonation ; and they are much more strung out then our jeeps. Id really like to know the cause. I just dont believe that it is true detonation.
Believe it.
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:13 PM   #29
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I'm going to have to try switching to premium. Mine never used to ping, but at 22k miles it's pinging in every gear at any load. What a lovely machine.

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