Exhaust and Header Upgrade - Page 2 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK General Discussion Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 10-04-2010, 06:43 AM   #31
MARGARET, 10-14-51\6-1-12

WF Supporting Member
 
GREEN-MACHINE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF MASSACHUSETTS
Posts: 10,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeM37 View Post
I hope you meant $420......$4200 you're getting screwed
yeah 1 too many zeros.

__________________

life is too short to be taken seriously all the time,,,, go buy a MR.potato head and have some fun.
GREEN-MACHINE is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-04-2010, 06:43 AM   #32
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Upstate/Eastern NY
Posts: 1,960
Send a message via AIM to thaduke2003
$420 for both axles is VERY reasonable! I pay about the same at "friend" prices $4200 they'd better be buying you dinner, a movie, drinks, and a nightcap with that screwing Mark W.

thaduke2003 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-04-2010, 09:54 AM   #33
Jeeper
 
jgorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaduke2003 View Post
Jgorm, have you ever tuned a stand alone ECU from scratch? For a one-off setup like a custom turbo kit on an engine/trans combo that nobody makes an off-the-shelf tune for? Yeah, 50 hours seems like a lot, but it's realistic for a GOOD street tune. Minimum would be 24 hours, realistically. I'm not talking about something like a Diablo, which has limited capability. I'm talking about an AEM stand-alone ECU, and full custom tuning.

To be honest, I haven't gotten to play with the new Diablo tuner for the JK yet, but I can assure you that it can't even begin to compare with the features a custom ECU bring to the table.

Also, a high-flow throttle body is a waste of money for high boost- they're more important for NA (Naturally Aspirated- in other words, no turbo, nitrous, etc.), as those applications see greater gains from de-restricted air pathways.
As for failure and issues, I don't see how you could make that claim- it's a hunk of metal. I've worked with many over-bored TB's over the years (mostly on Honda/Acura, and Mustang/Camaro applications) and never had one fail- either the homespun kind (had a great guy in central FL who had a 3-day turnaround, including shipping, for $100! Loved him ), or the off-the-shelf kind. Had throttle return springs fail, but those were often stock parts, re-used.

As always, my disclaimer- I'm not personally crapping on you. Just stating what I've seen in my experience- Mark W.
I try to avoid the standalone ecus for street cars. (But I do know that they will take much longer because everything needs to be done from scratch) The factory ecu if very capable if you have the tools to modify it correctly. With the ford stuff, i see no need to go standalone unless you want to spin 8000+ rpms, or run a map based system for some funky intakes that cannot use a maf. They used the factory ecu on "joes GT" that made 1400+ hp.

I am not talking about using the diablo predator with the preloaded tunes, that does not support any sort of "custom" tuning, it just loads a tune with bumped up timing for preimum gas. I have the ability to change the factory code and reprogram any maps that i need to, then use the predator to flash my custom tune.

My comment on larger throttle bodies should have been a little more clear. On PB blower applications the TB is an intake restriction and there can be large gains with bigger TBs. On turbos and centri cars where the TB sees boost, you are correct that the size is pretty much irrelevant. My comment on throttle body failures is for the electronic throttle bodies. I've seen stepper motor problems that resulted with jerky operation.
jgorm is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-04-2010, 08:03 PM   #34
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Upstate/Eastern NY
Posts: 1,960
Send a message via AIM to thaduke2003
^ You, sir, through your thorough answer/retort, have earned a bit of my respect And I hate stepper motors They do, indeed, fail often, even in stock form- modding the systems they control causes all kinds of issues, but as long as an aftermarket TB doesn't modify the throttle rotor, they SHOULDN'T have increased problems- Mark W.
thaduke2003 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-04-2010, 08:12 PM   #35
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 143
Send a message via Yahoo to coop42
Spoke to Dave Brown lately?
coop42 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-04-2010, 08:13 PM   #36
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 143
Send a message via Yahoo to coop42
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaduke2003 View Post
My friend, I have a few comments on that statement. But, first, a disclaimer. For 6 and a half years, I ran a PROFESSIONAL (A.K.A. no fart cans and wings on Accords unless they REALLY needed one) high-performance shop here in NY. I've been in most magazines for racing and street tuning out there, and my cars are regulars at every race track in the Northeast (well, they were as of 2 years ago when I shut down ). To say that I understand speed and power is a given. Therefore, do not get butthurt when I say:
That "aid in throttle response" was 99% your mind WISHING there were an improvement. On a carbeurated engine, carb spacers WORK. A 1" carb spacer left my shop on EVERY carb'ed engine I ever built, if room allowed for it. They make unmistakable differences in power and torque. Dyno measurable, even. However, on a modern, throttle-by-wire (or E-throttle, etc.) FUEL INJECTED vehicle, I have yet to see any noticable gain. Noticable means more than 1-2 WHP, which can be attributed to warming up the engine, changing humidity, temps., etc. They, to me, are snake oil. Pure, and simple.
As for the turbo setup, it USED TO BE not hard to get done. With the E-throttle, even the professional tuning shops that make SUPERCHARGER (I know, obviously the difference, but bear with me) kits are having a beast of a time getting the tuning down. They have their own dyno's, and thousands of man hours behind their kits, and there are still issues. Of the two forms of forced induction (super and turbocharging), turbo is usually (unless you get LUCKY, which you won't with e-throttle and modern ECU setups) much more difficult to tune. Figure you'd need a minimum of 50-100 hours of tuning to make up a decent tune for your homespun turbo kit. Not to mention, the easy part- fabbing it all up.
Sure, if you want to drop $5-15K on tuning, and 1-2K+ on the turbo. But then, why not a Hemi?

Isn't knowledge a bitch? Or is it just me... Mark W.
Spoke to Dave Brown lately?
coop42 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-05-2010, 08:30 AM   #37
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Upstate/Eastern NY
Posts: 1,960
Send a message via AIM to thaduke2003
Who's Dave Brown? Mark W.
thaduke2003 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-05-2010, 11:52 AM   #38
Jeeper
 
jgorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaduke2003 View Post
^ You, sir, through your thorough answer/retort, have earned a bit of my respect And I hate stepper motors They do, indeed, fail often, even in stock form- modding the systems they control causes all kinds of issues, but as long as an aftermarket TB doesn't modify the throttle rotor, they SHOULDN'T have increased problems- Mark W.
haha, thanks. hopefully i'll get my jeep on the dyno again this week and screw around with the tune.
jgorm is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 10-05-2010, 06:54 PM   #39
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Upstate/Eastern NY
Posts: 1,960
Send a message via AIM to thaduke2003
Nice- let us know how it goes! Mark W.

thaduke2003 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
exhaust header glows mtgdragon TJ Tech Forum 13 10-29-2010 02:36 PM
Exhaust header BOYDTJ TJ General Discussion Forum 25 10-26-2009 08:27 PM
I want to change my exhaust header? KBR-02 General Jeep Discussion 2 09-06-2009 11:55 AM
Who's running after market exhaust and header? snksknr94 YJ Tech Forum 4 05-31-2009 09:52 PM
what size exhaust to get and header. 03wrangler TJ General Discussion Forum 10 02-18-2007 02:56 PM



» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:45 AM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC