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Extreme Terrain, JCR, and UPS

7K views 65 replies 32 participants last post by  StarWolve 
#1 ·
Let me get this out of the way up front:
1. Extreme Terrain has been awesome. No hassles, great to talk to on the phone, and genuinely concerned about making things right.
2. JCR makes a great product. Their bumpers look great, and with the exception of one minor fabrication mistake, have also been great to deal with.
3. UPS is completely at fault.

On 3/17/15, I ordered a set of JCR Vanguard Full Width bumpers, front and rear, and skid plate, through Extreme Terrain. Ryan hooked me up, as usual! I would have ordered directly from JCR, but since the prices were really close, I went through XT since I've dealt with Ryan on other things. My plan was to upgrade the front and rear bumpers, and then add the adventure tire carrier. I'm going for an "overland motorcycle support rig" type of setup for my Jeep - to haul dirt bikes and other toys to the trails. So the Adventure tire carrier with rotopax storage is ideal for my needs.

The bumpers are built when ordered, so it takes a few weeks. The first set of bumpers arrived around 4/22/15 - and both were damaged. (see photos in my next post - I'll be uploading them from my phone.)

The damage was minor overall, but every piece was damaged. Other than the bolt and some uneven powdercoat, all the damage was caused by the delivery service (UPS).

Front bumper - shifted in the box towards the drivers side, punched through the box. Damage on end, shackle mount powder coat is chipped, bottom edge has a gouge and powdercoat is worn off, powder coat is worn off on the front edge near fog light is and one of the bumper mounting bolts was sliced with a cutting wheel in the manufacturing process.

Skid plate - punched through its box, inside the larger front bumper box. Powder coat is uneven (has streaks) and worn off on edges where it broke through the box and rubbed.

Rear bumper - frame mounts broke through the box. Powder coat is worn off on the frame mounts. Drivers side corner also broke through the box and is gouged. Imperfections in powder coat (2 spots that would not rub off) on surface. Gouge on edge.

So it was returned. I packaged it back up, UPS picked it up, and hopefully JCR was successful in filing a claim against them for the damage.

On to round 2. The replacement front bumper was delivered 05/28/15... and this time the damage was apparent before I even pulled in the driveway. One end of the box was completely missing (the cardboard was shoved back into the box), there was a large hole where the frame mount punched through the box, and the entire bumper was hanging 1/3 of the way out of the box on the concrete. The hardware box was hanging out, and I have no idea if anything else is missing.

The rear bumper should be delivered today, along with the skid plate. I'm hoping for better luck on this one, but I'm not very optimistic at this point.

While I don't blame JCR for the handling - I think they need to look at a better carrier or possibly reinforcing their boxes. It will add cost, I understand that - but if it was tied down to a solid bottom and had solid ends, it would most likely survive UPS's "handling" better. Still, the blame is solely with UPS for this. To even deliver the 2nd bumper in that condition is inexcusable.

Extreme Terrain's customer service has been great. They immediately created an RMA, and seem to understand although not their fault - delivering a damaged product isn't good for them or JCR. They've asked JCR to wrap the the next bumper as much as possible - and I hope that JCR sees this post and the photos here so they can address the issue.

I'm not cancelling my order. I like JCR's bumpers, and the adventure tire carrier is exactly what I need for my Jeep and will be the next thing I purchase. (XT doesn't have it listed yet, so I'll probably order directly through JCR.) But I'm really frustrated with UPS...

Photos in the next post.
 
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#3 ·
Have not seen the pictures yet but from the description it seems like it's JCR's packaging technique that is at fault. Hope you get this squared away quickly.
 
#7 ·
Same experience for me with my rear bumper and tire carrier from extreme terrain. They were helpful but UPS botched just about everything in the shipping process.
 
#8 ·
Ordered direct from JCR for my rear. Got the same dings on the dring mounts and another place. Haven't touched them up yet but will be in the future. Next time i know not to have them powder coated. Love the bumper but would never recommend to anyone buying from JCR to get them powder coated. Just get them shipped bare metal. Other that that I have the vanguard rear with adventure carrier and it is awesome.
 
#9 ·
At thing point I'm wishing I had gotten them in bare metal and had everything coated locally. I understand that they're going to get scuffed up on the trails, but I'd like them to be in good condition initially. Crossing my fingers that the rear bumper shows up today intact and undamaged...
 
#11 ·
I work in the furniture industry and deal with factories on a daily basis with packaging. In the 15 years I've been a furniture buyer I've seen our packaging standards go from nothing more than styro-foam and shrink wrap to full cartoning with skids, corner blocks, high density foam, and the list goes on. These days we can drop a 200 lb dresser on it's corner from 36" and sustain zero damage.

The technology is there, and from what I see in your photos, the issues with your bumpers arriving damaged lie solely on JCR. Whether they are producing these themselves or contracting production out to a factory, it's on them to make sure the factory ships these things right.

From your second photo it's clear that they use zero corner blocks on the ends. There should be minimum 1" high density foam covered by cardboard corner blocks at each point where the bumper touches the carton. Shipping goods like this will bite them big time on the back end when they have to take back a ton of returns and then liquidate them at a loss just to move them.
 
#12 ·
I ordered a JCR Vanguard rear bumper and tire carrier from extreme terrain. I also had damage from chipped corners and flat spots.
I do not blame ups for this. They pickup, move hundreds of miles, a lot of hands and moving belts before it gets to its destination. Are you able to lift box, bumper and packing material by yourself? I doubt it. The driver moves it from location on truck, about 5 feet to backdoor, then on a dolly. Which they push up your driveway to door. When loading and unloading, pushing a package does happen, it's in the safety manual for the driver so he or she doesn't get hurt.
Unless it's leaking they deliver and it is the recipients responsibility to contact shipper for a return.
If these items were packaged properly so they don't shift, reinforced corners that will protect the item, it will arrive safely. Until shippers address this issue, damage in some way can occur.
 
#14 ·
Unless it's leaking they deliver and it is the recipients responsibility to contact shipper for a return.
They'll deliver things leaking, too. They delivered a box of BBQ sauces to my house, dropping broken glass and sauce all over the driveway. I had to clean up all the glass and hose the driveway off before I could let my dogs out, or I would have been picking glass shards out of their tongues.
 
#15 ·
Over all there is some quality control that needs to be done by UPS. But a lot of it falls upon the company who puts it in the box. Companies try to cut corners in shipping cost and it looks good when it leaves the store. I used to work at UPS in Louisville, Ky. It's one of their largest hubs. ( during Christmas rush we would unload and load 1 million packages in a 4 hours shift across the hub). You have to realize as do the person packaging the item how this bumper gets from one place to the next. It goes for a ride on many levels of conveyor belts, up, down slides, more conveyors, through several different building until it goes down its last slide and is loaded by hand into a truck. If it's not packaged correctly it's going to break out. My neighbor ordered the Warn bumpers. They packaged it right. Boxed up with, styrofoam, and supports. Strapped to a wooden crate. This makes it a freight shipment by UPS. Cost more but it's handled a lot better and by hand. I ordered the Barricade front bumper from. XT. I had a corner poked out of the box and the powder coat was chipped. I put a little paint on it and called it good. I think you have to blamed both sides.
 
#16 ·
What a headache! I'm sorry you're having to deal with that. Since the bumper goes to you directly from JCR there isn't even a way for me to add extra packaging to it before it leaves our warehouse!

Let me know how this one arrives and if I can do anything at all to help!

-Ryan
 
#17 ·
My LoD front bumper with stinger came in a large box and the bumper was bolted to a small pallet. They had foam corners and padded bubble wrap on about the whole thing. While I agree that UPS, and other shippers can be rough on items, it needs to be remembered that these items are big and heavy. the packaging needs to be able to protect the item while in transit.
 
#22 ·
I agree. When I got my lod bumper, it was completely encased in foam. No movement at all inside the box, so no chance of punching thru the box. I say this is on JCR and their packaging.
 
#18 ·
I can see both sides of it - and after your comments, I agree that JCR needs to step up their packaging. There's no reason this couldn't be bolted to a pallet with solid ends to protect it. I understand it will cost more to ship - but how much does it cost to ship multiple items 2-3 times before it makes it to the destination undamaged? I've shipped motorcycle engines using UPS, and haven't had a problem. Bolted to a board or stand, packaged in a plastic tote with cardboard bracing/padding, and then put in a box and padded properly - and no issues. Even it had been dropped, it would have been okay.

Still - My UPS driver probably hates me. There's 2 Jeeps and 8 motorcycles at my house - so he's always delivery parts for something.
 
#20 ·
Still - My UPS driver probably hates me. There's 2 Jeeps and 8 motorcycles at my house - so he's always delivery parts for something.
I've always wondered if this makes them hate or love us. Job security is a good thing. Plus many areas are switching to community mailboxes, so UPS/FedEx is the only way to get things delivered to the door sometimes... yeah I'm being lazy :D
 
#24 ·
As I sit here, reading your post while I await the much anticipated delivery of my JCR Vanguard full width front and rear bumpers & lower skid.... I think I shall open a double IPA.

First, I applaud your patience, and the time you took to post this. I appreciate the fact that you've now waited 9 weeks for your bumpers and continue to wait. I placed my order on 4/27 and set myself up mentally for a month long wait. Prior to, and in the interim, I did a bunch of online research about the company, JCROffroad, as well as their products. I reached out to about 5 members of this forum who indicated they owned Vanguard bumpers. I wanted some feedback on the quality, and the experience. I will say this - everything I have read leads me to believe that JCR's heart and commitment is in the right place. I have experienced firsthand their customer service; initially it was their patience with me as I asked a million questions about their bumpers, mounting options, accessories, and pricing. And then it was also a great experience getting value for my money - numerous items thrown in for free because I was placing a sizeable order, etc. Everyone I spoke to on here via PM indicated they loved the bumpers and thought it was a completely quality-made and well built product. A few had shipping issues, and some indicated the shipping issues had improved when JCR chose to improve their packaging and foam-spray packing. JCR made good on them as far as I was told. They are essentially shipping 90+ lbs of material per box for full width bumpers. The shipping is free. You might say, well hey, I'll pay $40 additional per box to ensure they are treated right and get to me in one piece, undamaged. But you don't really have that option, and many people might turn away from an additional $120 of shipping.

I feel bad that you are having to wait longer to get this resolved. I hope mine survives the shipping. I'm an avid Amazon Prime user and Ive had everything from generators to flat screen TVs damaged in shipping by UPS and Fedex. Stuff literally gets tossed by equipment during loading due to the volumes they both move. It will get resolved, either through good faith by JCR, or the carrier and insurance claims. It just sucks.

Good luck bro, and I hope to see pics of your bumpers. I dont yet have a shipping date from JCR, a month later. BUT, I got an email from Allen @ JCR and apart from apologizing for the delays, I got a hi-lift jack and a 3rd brake light thrown in for free (on top of a winch fairlead plate) So I honestly can't say anything bad about JCR, they are a great place to deal with.
 
#25 ·
I will admit, I wasn't quite so patient when I saw the 2nd bumper sitting in my driveway. Took a couple pictures while it was still light out, called XT support on my drive, went and ran 6 miles on the trails, and drank a few IPA's afterwards. "Patience" usually takes a few hours, a few miles, and a few beers to find.

I did the same research on the bumpers - read a lot of threads, messaged a few people about them, and narrowed it down to the Warn Elite and JCR Vanguard. While I think both are good bumpers, I liked JCR's a bit more, especially since they had a nice skid plate, and the adventure tire carrier.

Honestly - the only thing bad I can say about JCR is the one bolt that has a minor cut (I would have chased the threads and used it as is) and their packaging.

Upon closer inspection - I'm not sure what happened with the 2nd bumper. The first bumper was wrapped in plastic and surrounded by spray foam, but the 2nd one had no plastic or spray foam - it was either missing from packaging, or was lost when the box opened up in shipment.

As far as the shipment notice - I didn't receive anything until a couple days before it arrived. Supposedly my rear bumper and skid plate are arriving in the next couple of days.

I'm not to the point where I want to cancel my order. I just want JCR to make it right - and for them to know that their product isn't making it to customers in the same shape it left in. If set #3 shows up damaged... then I'll probably cancel, and go directly through JCR for bumpers, skid plate, and tire carrier in bare steel. At least if they're damaged then, I can repair them and have them powder coated locally.

But if #3 shows up undamaged - once they're mounted, I'll be ordering their adventure tire carrier with the fuel and jack mounts.
 
#26 ·
The 2nd rear bumper and skid plate showed up. I think I'm going to keep them, as there are no major scratches or scrapes - but they're not perfect. The bumper definitely poked through the box. This one arrived in much better shape, but did not have much more padding that the others.

Any suggestions on paint to touch these up?

Pictures - let me know what you think. I'm not really thrilled with the finished and scuffs on the rear bumper, but I don't think too much will show once it's touched up. I hope JCR sees this - I'm going to email them about the rear adventure carrier soon, and will send them this link. I think they need to know how their products are arriving and do something about their packaging.

So the saga continues. Still waiting for UPS to pickup front bumper #2 (calling XT today to find out why it hasn't happened, it's been sitting there for a week) and hoping that front #3 makes the cut.

Boxes:


Boxes don't hold up so well:




Padding?




should I be upset about this finish?




The skid plate was in good structural shape, but will need some touch-up paint:



 
#33 ·
The 2nd rear bumper and skid plate showed up. I think I'm going to keep them, as there are no major scratches or scrapes - but they're not perfect. The bumper definitely poked through the box. This one arrived in much better shape, but did not have much more padding that the others.

Any suggestions on paint to touch these up?

Pictures - let me know what you think. I'm not really thrilled with the finished and scuffs on the rear bumper, but I don't think too much will show once it's touched up. I hope JCR sees this - I'm going to email them about the rear adventure carrier soon, and will send them this link. I think they need to know how their products are arriving and do something about their packaging.

So the saga continues. Still waiting for UPS to pickup front bumper #2 (calling XT today to find out why it hasn't happened, it's been sitting there for a week) and hoping that front #3 makes the cut.
What a saga! I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. Let me know if you want me to look into why the front bumper has been picked up yet. I'll see that JCR is made aware of what's going on here as well. Let me know how I can help!

-Ryan
 
#27 ·
Sorry you're going through this man. I went through the exact same thing with ARB and Q-tec trying to get an undamaged ARB deluxe bull bar for my 2012 Sport. I think it's documented somewhere in the Mega Front Bumper thread stickied in this forum.

As much as I want to blame UPS for this stuff, you have to put responsibility on the packer and shipper of the item. Everyone knows that these items are going to slide around, bump into stuff and drop from (hopefully) small heights while going through the shipping process. I returned 2 damaged ARB bull bars to Qtec before getting one that was exceptable. The first 2 came in a COMPLETELY EMPTY cardboard box!!! a 100lb power-coated hunk of steel in a friggin Amazon box for cryin' out loud! The only reason the 3rd one made it to me in acceptable shape was Qtec finally had it shipped to them so they could inspect and repackage the bumper and strap it to a palette for shipping. IMO, given the weight and size, bumpers will only make it to you unmarked if they are packed and strapped to a skid. Without both something will breach the box via ground frieght. That debacle costed me about 12 hours of missed work time and many more hours than that in frustration. When you spend $1700 for both a front & rear bumper...how is that acceptable (the rear was apparently light enough to arrive undamaged)

From what I've read LOD is the only company that gets it and packs these large steel items adequately for shipment. If I were getting a bumper shipped they are the only company's products I'd buy at this time.

It limits options unfortunately. I resolved to only deal with local companies that I can pick bumpers up from for my 15 Rubi after that fiasco. JCR would have been feasible as well as ACE, but AEV is 20 minutes from my house and ARBs/AEV bumpers have always been my favorites in terms of aesthetics and function. I ended up getting a front tubeless bumper and Jeff from AEV actually dropped it off personally one of their new RAM conversions. I've wheeled with those guys too so despite the somewhat higher price it keeps things local and in the family.

I guess decide if you can live with the damage, and I'd say do it if you can fix it yourself and there's no damage to the metal. But if you feel like you can't accept it right now, send them back and order from LOD or go with an option where you can pick up the bumpers yourself. Anything else you are risking going through an endless cycle of shipments and damaged returns. Not worth the time or frustration in the long run.
 
#29 ·
You may want to reach out to member rtkane on what spray was recommended by JCR to touch up some damaged spots as he went through the same thing.
 
#32 ·
Glad to see there hasn't been the typical "So What, its a Jeep or It's a Bumper" posts.
I have watched stuff get loaded on planes and trucks - there is NO excuse for the way things get mishandled. That said, I have talked to clients who own manufacturing concerns and they feel as though they are in competition with freight companies "Packaging vs Loading" to avoid damage and associated costs. Stuff gets damaged it drives costs UP, Packaging drives costs UP.
Weight drives costs UP.
It sucks. When I got my ARB Bullbar for my Rubicon it came common carrier (18 wheeler) pulled up and unloaded a Coffin.
Bumper was perfect but I own a coffin now too, guess I'll get some use out of it one day. :)
 
#34 ·
The saga continues. The front bumper is STILL sitting in the driveway, after almost 3 weeks. I received a return label after a couple days, but it was incorrect as it didn't have a pickup scheduled. I received an updated label, dropped off by the UPS driver, with a scheduled pickup date of 06/08/15. I called UPS today, and according to their system, said it had been picked up - but it's still sitting in my driveway. They're sending someone to pick it up (I hope) tomorrow.

A less-than-honest person probably could have kept the front bumper, and blamed UPS since they said it had been picked up - but XT has been good about the whole situation and I'm not that type of person!

Ordered some touch up paint for the rear bumper... we'll see how it comes out this weekend. I really hope JCR packages front bumper #3 better... and if the touch up comes out okay, I'll be ordering the adventure tire carrier.
 
#35 ·
30 minutes on the phone with UPS explaining that the reason the box is "improperly packed" is because it's in the exact same condition they delivered it in. I'm just about ready to return everything, order direct from JCR in bare steel, and fix any shipping damage prior to powder coating it locally. If you're reading this thread - DON'T ORDER POWDERCOATED JCR BUMPERS. Get them in steel so you can sand out the scratches from shipping. This is really frustrating, because I really like the product... And just want it to arrive undamaged.
 

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#36 ·
JCR needs to take a page out of the LoD packaging manual.

They wrap everything in heavy duty plastic, put the item in the box, that cover it in expanding foam before sealing the box.

Make unwrapping a pain but you could probably drop it 50' and suffer no damage. Even UPS would have trouble causing damage. LOL
 
#41 ·
I wasn't very patient with UPS last night, especially after being transferred 5 times before I got someone who could fix the problem. If the bumper is still there when I get home today though...
:atomic:

My girlfriend keeps telling me I'm crazy for being this patient, and should order from someone else - but for me, it was between the JCR Vanguard or Warn Elite... and the JCR Adventure tire carrier and skid plate is what sold me on theirs. I REALLY like the rotopax storage method with JCR. Since I use my Jeep for hauling dual sport motorcycles, that's ideal for me. It's one less thing I need to store inside the Jeep, and I'm also the sort of guy who has stopped for someone out of gas on the highway to help them out.

If front bumper #3 is damaged, I'm going to send everything back and order bare steel directly from JCR, rather than try to match powder coat and touch-ups between front and rear. I live in Nascar country (Charlotte, NC) so there's plenty of places to get powder coating done around here. And if it's scratched up in shipping with bare steel, a few quick passes with the MIG and a sanding wheel will clean that up.
 
#39 ·
they need to take lessons from Shrockworks. I got my rear bumper last night and it came from Texas to Montana via ups and the packaging was incredible. it could have been run over by the truck or dropped out the back at 30 mph and still been perfect.
 
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