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Old 05-02-2013, 10:53 PM   #31
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I thought the spec was no more than 8k regardless of the indicator?
I have changed my oil 3X already first time at 500 miles, second at 1500 3rd at 4000 and getting ready to change again when I hit 9000 and will do 5000 from then on. I have not reset my oil minder so I will be interested to see how far it goes. first change was with mobil 1 5-20 then I found it did not meet the chrysler spec and second and third were with pennzoil platnium 5-20 and will use that from here on out.

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Old 05-02-2013, 10:55 PM   #32
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Although the 5w-30 has a larger temperature operating range, the "lighter" 5w-20 will help keep the engine cooler in the summers out here. The thinner oil will shed heat, and collect it faster than the 30 wt. as well as reduce heat from friction. To add, with the 20 wt., the oil pump can pump more volume than with the 30 wt. Adding the tight tollerances in the engine, bearings, etc., and that the VVT system uses oil pressure to operate correctly, unless proven other wise, it might be best to stick with the 5w-20 as recomended. Modern oils still offer fantastic protection, even at the thinner weights. Oil is non compressable, so as long as there is a film between metal parts, all is good. And thinner oil creates less friction. My take is this......is the 5w-20 oil more for getting better mpg out of a vehicle, or are engines being manufactured to closer tolerances, with smaller (more narow) oil passages, tighter bearing fitments/tolerances, and such to get a more efficient engine? If switching to a lighter oil was a magic bullit to get better mpg, I think more manufactures would be throwing it in their engines. But with modern VVT systems, and much tighter tollerances, the thinner oil might be required to better cool, and lubricate the internals.
Chris, I can tell by your comments, that you have a in-depth knowledge of oil in general and I agree with most of what you have said!
My background was that I worked as a consultant to shell oil in helping to formulate specialty oils for Heavy equipment and Haulage Trucks in the Mining Industry. It was a very interesting profession and I had the opportunity to learn a lot from Shell oils Chemistry Team of Engineers. I travels off and on to the Mine sites with there head Chemist as we tested different oil formulations with high tech oil analysis.
Yes, lighter oil does dissipate heat at a faster rate. As does straight water in a radiator, verses water mixed with antifreeze. This is proven in the test labs and it is fact.
Viscosity on the other hand is another issue. If I was going to be let's say just driving to work daily in Phoenix about 10 mile each way, then I would stay with the 5w/20 weight. I'm retired and will be traveling from Phoenix to our cabin in Overgaard a couple of times a month. I see that you are from Arizona so hopefully you are familiar with these areas. Now because of the mountain driving about 150 mile each way, I am more comfortable with 5w/30, which will add a little more viscosity at 212 oil degrees.
I am sure that you understand that 5w/20 starts off as with the base of 5 weight and then polymers are added to increase the viscosity up to 20 weight at 212 degrees. The problem is that polymers are not 100% stable so you may wind up with 5w/17, or 5w/22 so I have a better chance of having the viscosity needed using 5w/30, because it will also vary somewhat.
That is why under my driving conditions, that I have chosen to go with the 5w/30 oil

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Old 05-02-2013, 10:56 PM   #33
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Keep on driving. The dashboard leader will instruct you.

I will be curious what mileage I end up at before it says it needs to be changed.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:03 PM   #34
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I bought a new 2002 F150 with the new triton engine and it was about the first engine that used 5-20 oil. It had very close tolerances in the rod bearings and they had issues early on with oil that was higer viscosity. Never used anything but motorcraft 5-20 and it is probably turning 400,000 miles by now.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:06 PM   #35
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:12 PM   #36
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Chris, I can tell by your comments, that you have a in-depth knowledge of oil in general and I agree with most of what you have said!
My background was that I worked as a consultant to shell oil in helping to formulate specialty oils for Heavy equipment and Haulage Trucks in the Mining Industry. It was a very interesting profession and I had the opportunity to learn a lot from Shell oils Chemistry Team of Engineers. I travels off and on to the Mine sites with there head Chemist as we tested different oil formulations with high tech oil analysis.
Yes, lighter oil does dissipate heat at a faster rate. As does straight water in a radiator, verses water mixed with antifreeze. This is proven in the test labs and it is fact.
Viscosity on the other hand is another issue. If I was going to be let's say just driving to work daily in Phoenix about 10 mile each way, then I would stay with the 5w/20 weight. I'm retired and will be traveling from Phoenix to our cabin in Overgaard a couple of times a month. I see that you are from Arizona so hopefully you are familiar with these areas. Now because of the mountain driving about 150 mile each way, I am more comfortable with 5w/30, which will add a little more viscosity at 212 oil degrees.
I am sure that you understand that 5w/20 starts off as with the base of 5 weight and then polymers are added to increase the viscosity up to 20 weight at 212 degrees. The problem is that polymers are not 100% stable so you may wind up with 5w/17, or 5w/22 so I have a better chance of having the viscosity needed using 5w/30, because it will also vary somewhat.
That is why under my driving conditions, that I have chosen to go with the 5w/30 oil
I recently switched to 10-30 in my 3.8L. Without starting another oil fight, is there anything wrong w/ this? I'm in Louisiana and frequently encounter heat and dusty conditions. Not many hills unless offroading (1-2x/month) and no towing. 12 miles each way to work in stop-and-go traffic.

Friendly opinion appreciated.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:30 PM   #37
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Chris, I can tell by your comments, that you have a in-depth knowledge of oil in general and I agree with most of what you have said!
My background was that I worked as a consultant to shell oil in helping to formulate specialty oils for Heavy equipment and Haulage Trucks in the Mining Industry. It was a very interesting profession and I had the opportunity to learn a lot from Shell oils Chemistry Team of Engineers. I travels off and on to the Mine sites with there head Chemist as we tested different oil formulations with high tech oil analysis.
Yes, lighter oil does dissipate heat at a faster rate. As does straight water in a radiator, verses water mixed with antifreeze. This is proven in the test labs and it is fact.
Viscosity on the other hand is another issue. If I was going to be let's say just driving to work daily in Phoenix about 10 mile each way, then I would stay with the 5w/20 weight. I'm retired and will be traveling from Phoenix to our cabin in Overgaard a couple of times a month. I see that you are from Arizona so hopefully you are familiar with these areas. Now because of the mountain driving about 150 mile each way, I am more comfortable with 5w/30, which will add a little more viscosity at 212 oil degrees.
I am sure that you understand that 5w/20 starts off as with the base of 5 weight and then polymers are added to increase the viscosity up to 20 weight at 212 degrees. The problem is that polymers are not 100% stable so you may wind up with 5w/17, or 5w/22 so I have a better chance of having the viscosity needed using 5w/30, because it will also vary somewhat.
That is why under my driving conditions, that I have chosen to go with the 5w/30 oil
What you have stated I have also heard! This multi weight oil is garbage.
This is why in my 2013 Rubi, that I am running straight 30W now and will change to 20W in the winter. With this my penstar makes a little rattle when starting, but I have heard that they all do this. At least now I have good lubrication!
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:42 PM   #38
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I recently switched to 10-30 in my 3.8L. Without starting another oil fight, is there anything wrong w/ this? I'm in Louisiana and frequently encounter heat and dusty conditions. Not many hills unless offroading (1-2x/month) and no towing. 12 miles each way to work in stop-and-go traffic.

Friendly opinion appreciated.
I have never owned a 3.8 so I really don't want to steer you wrong on viscosity.
I would not recommend going to a high number, because these engines are designed at cold start up to be able to pump oil to critical parts of the engine in a certain time frame. The number that I am refereeing to is the lower number, Example 5w/30 to 10w/30. I would stay with the recommended lower viscosity number. My concern would be the 10w, but only if 5w is recommended.
I'm sure that some of the other Forum members that are running 3.8s could answer your question
Good Luck!
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:45 PM   #39
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Thanks for the reply. I know others are running 10-30 and I love the way my engine sounds now in comparison. Just wanted advice on negatives. I THINK the earlier years 3.8s called for 10-30 anyways.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:54 PM   #40
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What you have stated I have also heard! This multi weight oil is garbage.
This is why in my 2013 Rubi, that I am running straight 30W now and will change to 20W in the winter. With this my penstar makes a little rattle when starting, but I have heard that they all do this. At least now I have good lubrication!
OD, what you are using for viscosity is not a good idea. You are starving your engine for oil at cold start up.
It is your engine, but I think that you are making a big mistake!
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:44 AM   #41
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I agree with you on both subjects! I had a 4.0 in a 2003 TJ and yes, that engine has a track record of second to none. Some of the Members are getting over 300,000 miles with no major failures. That's just unheard of!

As for Synthetic, verses Conventional. I am a conventional guy and for every positive thing that I say about Conventional somebody else will say the same for synthetic. So it is a mute point and the discussion would be endless, with no resolve. I'm confident that your engine will have a lot of longevity with either or as long as it gets changed.
Good Luck with your choice!
I made it to over 40,000miles without any major problems, then I had one, got the new camshaft put in and traded it off. I'm pretty fond on my pentastar so far, but I did have a soft spot for my old '87 4.0 XJ.
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Old 05-03-2013, 02:26 AM   #42
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Never try to convince the eternally retro automotive crowd that their grandfather's wisdom is incorrect. They are wedded to rope seals, iron engine blocks, distributors, distilled water in their four core brass radiators, drum brakes, greasing the steering box, 6 volt electrics, and single weight oils [20w in winter and 40w in summer].

They believe that their grandfathers taught their sons that automotive engineering ended with the 1948 Nash Business Coupe and what was good then, is wholly appropriate now.
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:41 AM   #43
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OD, what you are using for viscosity is not a good idea. You are starving your engine for oil at cold start up.
It is your engine, but I think that you are making a big mistake!
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Never try to convince the eternally retro automotive crowd that their grandfather's wisdom is incorrect. They are wedded to rope seals, iron engine blocks, distributors, distilled water in their four core brass radiators, drum brakes, greasing the steering box, 6 volt electrics, and single weight oils [20w in winter and 40w in summer].

They believe that their grandfathers taught their sons that automotive engineering ended with the 1948 Nash Business Coupe and what was good then, is wholly appropriate now.
Seems to me he's just saying anything he can to elicit a response.

jadmt: Sorry, the way your initial post was written, I thought you were waiting for the oil change light to come on to do anything. Yikes.
Unless Chryslers system is totally different, there is no actual oil monitoring, just a program that tabulates cold starts, miles driven etc. I thought most were generally set to go off between 3k and 5k. Wonder if the system on your Jeep is working at all?
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:09 AM   #44
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Thanks for the reply. I know others are running 10-30 and I love the way my engine sounds now in comparison. Just wanted advice on negatives. I THINK the earlier years 3.8s called for 10-30 anyways.
My 09 X calls for 5-20. Still kicking around trying 5-30 for awhile and see what happens. I cant imagine I would notice a lot.
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:44 AM   #45
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My 09 X calls for 5-20. Still kicking around trying 5-30 for awhile and see what happens. I cant imagine I would notice a lot.
5W/30 should be just fine, but I would not recommend 10W30. The 5W is important for cold start up.
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:31 AM   #46
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5W/30 should be just fine, but I would not recommend 10W30. The 5W is important for cold start up.
What I read in the past regarding base weights is how they protect once the oil starts breaking down... The 5 weight lacks the shear factor of the 10.

I realize you can over-think this kind of stuff to the point of just giving yourself a massive headache, but still find it interesting.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:17 AM   #47
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I'm running 10w30 Mobil synthetic in my 3.8. And in my opinion it runs better. It may be a little thick for winter temps. But summer temps I think it's fine. Normally in auny other engine iv had. Iv alway run 10w30 in summer and 5w30 in winter. 5w20. Is just water.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:34 AM   #48
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Chris, I can tell by your comments, that you have a in-depth knowledge of oil in general and I agree with most of what you have said!
My background was that I worked as a consultant to shell oil in helping to formulate specialty oils for Heavy equipment and Haulage Trucks in the Mining Industry. It was a very interesting profession and I had the opportunity to learn a lot from Shell oils Chemistry Team of Engineers. I travels off and on to the Mine sites with there head Chemist as we tested different oil formulations with high tech oil analysis.
Yes, lighter oil does dissipate heat at a faster rate. As does straight water in a radiator, verses water mixed with antifreeze. This is proven in the test labs and it is fact.
Viscosity on the other hand is another issue. If I was going to be let's say just driving to work daily in Phoenix about 10 mile each way, then I would stay with the 5w/20 weight. I'm retired and will be traveling from Phoenix to our cabin in Overgaard a couple of times a month. I see that you are from Arizona so hopefully you are familiar with these areas. Now because of the mountain driving about 150 mile each way, I am more comfortable with 5w/30, which will add a little more viscosity at 212 oil degrees.
I am sure that you understand that 5w/20 starts off as with the base of 5 weight and then polymers are added to increase the viscosity up to 20 weight at 212 degrees. The problem is that polymers are not 100% stable so you may wind up with 5w/17, or 5w/22 so I have a better chance of having the viscosity needed using 5w/30, because it will also vary somewhat.
That is why under my driving conditions, that I have chosen to go with the 5w/30 oil
Yeah, I live in Mesa, and travel up north often myself. although I don't work in the chemical industry, I have many friends that are engineers in different parts of the automotive field. Collectively, we have tested different oils and run samples on them to see how they break down in different engines. I'm one engine, we ran 1 grade lighter weight, 4 80,000 miles. With 126000 miles on the engine, we tore it apart and measured different parts of the engine internals. All measurements were still within new engine specs.diesel engines are much different animals in That they don't have as close of tolerances as gasoline engines. And with the new VVT systems running off oil pressure, I haven't had the opportunity to see just how different oil weights affect VVT performance.one of my friends is an engineer at Volvo. I'm going to shoot him a message and see what is take is.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:55 AM   #49
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If you think this oil is thin, my 2006 SRT-8 Magnum used 0w/30 Mobil 1. $100 oil changes!

I use what the owner's manual tells me to. I check my oil often and normally don't change it until the color darkens or the oil indicator says to. With new engines I have never changed before 5,000 miles of normal driving.

To keep my Warrranty on the Wrangler, I have had to change it at the 6 month interval with the low miles I have put on it.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:55 AM   #50
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my buddy just responded back to me, and said that Chrysler has a tsb stating 5w 30 motor oil is safe to be used in their engines.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:58 AM   #51
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my buddy just responded back to me, and said that Chrysler has a tsb stating 5w 30 motor oil is safe to be used in their engines.
Ask him what the TSB number is? I would like to verify the TSB which is simple if you have the number. thanks
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:07 AM   #52
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Ask him what the TSB number is? I would like to verify the TSB which is simple if you have the number. thanks
he's going to look for it and get back to me
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:10 AM   #53
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Id like to know too please.
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:35 AM   #54
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Old Dogger, you are a pretty funny cat.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:05 PM   #55
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Old Dogger, you are a pretty funny cat.
he's a dog not a cat
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:32 PM   #56
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my buddy just responded back to me, and said that Chrysler has a tsb stating 5w 30 motor oil is safe to be used in their engines.
Chris, Thank you for the reassurance! I was confident that I made the correct discussion in using the 5W/30 in my 2013, but there is always that slight doubt in the back of your mind, because of new technology!

I live in Cave Creek winter months and part time in Overgaard in the summer. We usually stop at the McDonalds on route 89 and 260 for breakfast on the way up. If you are in the area, maybe we can meet for Breakfast in person.
I really do enjoy talking with somebody that is knowledgably in oils like yourself, because of my back ground. It is one of my many interests in life.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:37 PM   #57
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Chris, Thank you for the reassurance! I was confident that I made the correct discussion in using the 5W/30 in my 2013, but there is always that slight doubt in the back of your mind, because of new technology!

I live in Cave Creek winter months and part time in Overgaard in the summer. We usually stop at the McDonalds on route 89 and 260 for breakfast on the way up. If you are in the area, maybe we can meet for Breakfast in person.
I really do enjoy talking with somebody that is knowledgably in oils like yourself, because of my back ground. It is one of my many interests in life.
LOL!!! that is a pretty good McDonalds! Next time I'm heading up that way I'll shoot you a message in see if we can meet up.
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Old 05-03-2013, 01:14 PM   #58
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I use Pennzoil Platinum. Yes, 5w-20 is like water.

For those that hate on synthetic oil.. They're the same people that still watch over-the-air television and have land-line phones in their house. They probably read print media as well.

Newsflash: It's 2013.

Ignore them.

I sure gave it a try... I had several leaks afterward so had to go back to dinosoar juice.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:53 PM   #59
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not that I have any faith in local dealer but they said they know of no tsb stating you can use 5-30 in place of 5-20. I would like to have the actual number so I could have them pull it up.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:39 PM   #60
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not that I have any faith in local dealer but they said they know of no tsb stating you can use 5-30 in place of 5-20. I would like to have the actual number so I could have them pull it up.
If I don't hear anything tomorrow from my friend, I'll shoot him a reminder.

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