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Old 05-11-2013, 08:51 AM   #61
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If I don't hear anything tomorrow from my friend, I'll shoot him a reminder.
well?

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Old 05-11-2013, 10:28 AM   #62
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well?
I left him a couple messages this week, and haven't heard back. As soon as I do, I'll post up

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Old 05-11-2013, 02:06 PM   #63
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my buddy just responded back to me, and said that Chrysler has a tsb stating 5w 30 motor oil is safe to be used in their engines.
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:01 PM   #64
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I haven't seen a TSB saying you can use 5w-30 in all of our engines. I do know there was some training that came out telling us that 2013 Pentastars use 5w-20 not 5w-30 and there was an oil filter change. They look the same but they aren't interchangeable. The oil filter might be the 2014 3.6, but I know it changed for one of those years.

But I know for a fact you can not put 5w-30 in all Chrysler engines. If you put 5w-30 in a 5.7lt Hemi MDS VVT engine you will get a CEL for P1521-INCORRECT ENGINE OIL TYPE. And you need to use the oil weight that your engine says. They are designed & engineered for a certain oil weight & variable valve timing engines use oil pressure to adjust that & if they have the wrong oil in them the oil pressure won't be right.
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:20 PM   #65
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I haven't seen a TSB saying you can use 5w-30 in all of our engines. I do know there was some training that came out telling us that 2013 Pentastars use 5w-20 not 5w-30 and there was an oil filter change. They look the same but they aren't interchangeable. The oil filter might be the 2014 3.6, but I know it changed for one of those years.

But I know for a fact you can not put 5w-30 in all Chrysler engines. If you put 5w-30 in a 5.7lt Hemi MDS VVT engine you will get a CEL for P1521-INCORRECT ENGINE OIL TYPE. And you need to use the oil weight that your engine says. They are designed & engineered for a certain oil weight & variable valve timing engines use oil pressure to adjust that & if they have the wrong oil in them the oil pressure won't be right.
Thanks.
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:52 PM   #66
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What's interesting to me is how often people confuse viscosity and lubricity. I don't wish to underplay the importance of an oil that maintains its integrity during high temperature operation - but, that is a function of far more than just viscosity. As noted (or alluded to) by a previous post, the chemical structure of the oil is a key player - how good is the base oil, what is the additive package like, etc. Ultimately, a higher quality 5-20W oil can be more resistant to thermal viscosity break down than a low quality 5-30W oil. Simply pouring a "heavier" oil into the engine does not, in itself, guarantee better protection.

It's worth noting that the engine's operating temperature is the big player here (in determining viscosity requirements). I see a lot of posts talking about matching oil to air temperature - which is a pointless and fool hardy exercise. If your engine oil is running at 250 degrees it doesn't matter if it's 100 degrees outside. Likewise, if it's running at 300 degrees it doesn't matter if it's 0 degrees outside. Ambient temperature matters for two reasons: viscosity on start-up and its effect on your engine's ability to cool itself.

Ultimately, what you want is the right viscosity for you engine (be it 20W or 60W) with minimal pumping issues at start up. However, there IS such a thing too much viscosity. Your engine's ability to circulate the oil properly, particularly at high RPM, is negatively affected by too high a viscosity. Less oil flow means higher stress on the oil that IS present and, quite possibly, less protection for your engine parts. Your engine is designed around a certain oil viscosity range at operating temperature - it's entirely possible that more than one oil weight falls into this range at operating temperature - in which case it's driver's choice.

As far as synthetic or petroleum based oils - synthetic are better. That's a matter of chemistry - you can debate that only from a position of ignorance. Now, just because they're better doesn't mean a thing - it's all a value judgment on the part of the operator. Everyone makes their own choice about what is best for their vehicle and what makes them feel "warm and fuzzy."
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:58 PM   #67
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I haven't seen a TSB saying you can use 5w-30 in all of our engines. I do know there was some training that came out telling us that 2013 Pentastars use 5w-20 not 5w-30 and there was an oil filter change. They look the same but they aren't interchangeable. The oil filter might be the 2014 3.6, but I know it changed for one of those years.

But I know for a fact you can not put 5w-30 in all Chrysler engines. If you put 5w-30 in a 5.7lt Hemi MDS VVT engine you will get a CEL for P1521-INCORRECT ENGINE OIL TYPE. And you need to use the oil weight that your engine says. They are designed & engineered for a certain oil weight & variable valve timing engines use oil pressure to adjust that & if they have the wrong oil in them the oil pressure won't be right.
The oil filter element update change is applicable to the 2014 3.6 engine only, and it is not interchangeable with the 2012 and 2013, which takes the same element.

As for viscosity, well this one has been debated many times in the past with no resolve!
My Dealer Service Manager of 25 years just purchased a new 2013 Sahara, just prior to me purchasing my 2013 Rubicon. We sat down and had a very lengthy conversation regarding oil type and viscosity. We have both decided that it's in our best interest to us 5W30 in our 2013s. I am very comfortable with that decision!
You all need to run whatever you are the most comfortable with. One of our members is running straight 30 weight in his 2013.
Good Luck on what ever you use!
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:17 PM   #68
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The oil filter element update change is applicable to the 2014 3.6 engine only, and it is not interchangeable with the 2012 and 2013, which takes the same element.

As for viscosity, well this one has been debated many times in the past with no resolve!
My Dealer Service Manager of 25 years just purchased a new 2013 Sahara, just prior to me purchasing my 2013 Rubicon. We sat down and had a very lengthy conversation regarding oil type and viscosity. We have both decided that it's in our best interest to us 5W30 in our 2013s. I am very comfortable with that decision!
You all need to run whatever you are the most comfortable with. One of our members is running straight 30 weight in his 2013.
Good Luck on what ever you use!
As you said, you can use what you want, but it doesn't matter to me how many years a guy has been a service manager, if the engineers say your engine takes a certain oil I would use that oil. Todays engines are not built like small block Chevy's from the 60s. The tolerances in today's engines are so tight that you should use what is recommended.

And i don't even understand why we debate this, what are you gaining by running 5w-30 over 5w-20? If the engineers say 5w-20 will protect your engines internals properly, then why wouldn't you use it? Do you think you know more about the engine then the engineers who designed it? I don't think I do. There is no cost difference if thats what your after. Just because the previous year engine is the same displacement, it doesn't mean it's the same engine. Because it's not the same engine & many internal parts do not interchange either.

But I look at it this way, if you happen to have a catastrophic engine failure & your still in your warranty period, Chrysler will request that you provide proof that you have maintained your engine at proper service intervals. And if you give them receipts showing you put 5w-30 in your engine that calls for 5w-20, they will have grounds to void your warranty & I doubt your service manager will step up & say he told you it would be ok to use that oil. But if you show that you used what Chrysler said to use, thats an extra bullet for you to take into battle.

And running a straight 30w oil is not a good idea either. Because a straight 30w type oil will not have the additives & detergents that multi-viscocity oils have.
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:31 PM   #69
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I generally trust what a tech says over a service writer. I have friends who are service writers and they are nice guys but mechanically they are not the same as a trained tech. They will tell you as much.
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:41 PM   #70
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As you said, you can use what you want, but it doesn't matter to me how many years a guy has been a service manager, if the engineers say your engine takes a certain oil I would use that oil. Todays engines are not built like small block Chevy's from the 60s. The tolerances in today's engines are so tight that you should use what is recommended.

And i don't even understand why we debate this, what are you gaining by running 5w-30 over 5w-20? If the engineers say 5w-20 will protect your engines internals properly, then why wouldn't you use it? Do you think you know more about the engine then the engineers who designed it? I don't think I do. There is no cost difference if thats what your after. Just because the previous year engine is the same displacement, it doesn't mean it's the same engine. Because it's not the same engine & many internal parts do not interchange either.

But I look at it this way, if you happen to have a catastrophic engine failure & your still in your warranty period, Chrysler will request that you provide proof that you have maintained your engine at proper service intervals. And if you give them receipts showing you put 5w-30 in your engine that calls for 5w-20, they will have grounds to void your warranty & I doubt your service manager will step up & say he told you it would be ok to use that oil. But if you show that you used what Chrysler said to use, thats an extra bullet for you to take into battle.

And running a straight 30w oil is not a good idea either. Because a straight 30w type oil will not have the additives & detergents that multi-viscocity oils have.
Debating this subject will not end in everybody agreeing. It hasn't in the past and it won't in the future...........
I have already posted my opinion, which I will stick with, but I also respect other opinions, because everybody is just trying to be helpful from their basic background and knowledge! That's was it truly great about this Forum.
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:24 AM   #71
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And i don't even understand why we debate this, what are you gaining by running 5w-30 over 5w-20? If the engineers say 5w-20 will protect your engines internals properly, then why wouldn't you use it? Do you think you know more about the engine then the engineers who designed it?
As has been discussed the factory has serious conflicts of interest - e.g. the market pressure to increase EPA ratings, and the fact that post warranty they have explicit financial interest in the premature failure of your engine and your car. The fact that they are recommending the same viscosity for Alaska as Arizona is a little fishy to say the least. Blindly trusting corporate lackey engineers makes life easy but there's no real substitute for thinking now and then.
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:45 AM   #72
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What's interesting to me is how often people confuse viscosity and lubricity. I don't wish to underplay the importance of an oil that maintains its integrity during high temperature operation - but, that is a function of far more than just viscosity. As noted (or alluded to) by a previous post, the chemical structure of the oil is a key player - how good is the base oil, what is the additive package like, etc. Ultimately, a higher quality 5-20W oil can be more resistant to thermal viscosity break down than a low quality 5-30W oil. Simply pouring a "heavier" oil into the engine does not, in itself, guarantee better protection.

It's worth noting that the engine's operating temperature is the big player here (in determining viscosity requirements). I see a lot of posts talking about matching oil to air temperature - which is a pointless and fool hardy exercise. If your engine oil is running at 250 degrees it doesn't matter if it's 100 degrees outside. Likewise, if it's running at 300 degrees it doesn't matter if it's 0 degrees outside. Ambient temperature matters for two reasons: viscosity on start-up and its effect on your engine's ability to cool itself.

Ultimately, what you want is the right viscosity for you engine (be it 20W or 60W) with minimal pumping issues at start up. However, there IS such a thing too much viscosity. Your engine's ability to circulate the oil properly, particularly at high RPM, is negatively affected by too high a viscosity. Less oil flow means higher stress on the oil that IS present and, quite possibly, less protection for your engine parts. Your engine is designed around a certain oil viscosity range at operating temperature - it's entirely possible that more than one oil weight falls into this range at operating temperature - in which case it's driver's choice.

As far as synthetic or petroleum based oils - synthetic are better. That's a matter of chemistry - you can debate that only from a position of ignorance. Now, just because they're better doesn't mean a thing - it's all a value judgment on the part of the operator. Everyone makes their own choice about what is best for their vehicle and what makes them feel "warm and fuzzy."
Well stated!

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As has been discussed the factory has serious conflicts of interest - e.g. the market pressure to increase EPA ratings, and the fact that post warranty they have explicit financial interest in the premature failure of your engine and your car. The fact that they are recommending the same viscosity for Alaska as Arizona is a little fishy to say the least. Blindly trusting corporate lackey engineers makes life easy but there's no real substitute for thinking now and then.
If you think about it, that's the primary reason multi viscosity oils exist: to work in cold or hot climates, Alaska or Arizona.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:07 AM   #73
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Well stated!



If you think about it, that's the primary reason multi viscosity oils exist: to work in cold or hot climates, Alaska or Arizona.
This time I beat you to the popcorn, but I will share, two each..
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:11 AM   #74
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This time I beat you to the popcorn, but I will share, two each..
Not sharing with you........unless you have cold beer to wash it down with.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:24 AM   #75
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Not sharing with you........unless you have cold beer to wash it down with.
Will Budweiser work? I know that it's a old mans brew, but it's cold and boy is it ever good...........
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:27 PM   #76
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As has been discussed the factory has serious conflicts of interest - e.g. the market pressure to increase EPA ratings, and the fact that post warranty they have explicit financial interest in the premature failure of your engine and your car. The fact that they are recommending the same viscosity for Alaska as Arizona is a little fishy to say the least. Blindly trusting corporate lackey engineers makes life easy but there's no real substitute for thinking now and then.
Agreed. EPA pressure for increased corporate fuel economy has more bearing than concerns about engine longevity. IMO of course. If dropping to 5w-20 provides slightly less protection, the engineers/Chrysler Corp don't care if the engine fails at 200,000 miles.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:36 PM   #77
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For giggles, figured I'd mention I saw a Mobil 1 commercial for "15,000 miles of guaranteed protection."

The gist of the commercial is a guy running a cab company grabbing up old Interceptor model Crown Vics at the end of their stint in public service and converting them to cabs - the implication being that Mobil 1 and 15,000 mile drain intervals will keep even a hard used car running for well into six figure mileage.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:40 PM   #78
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Will Budweiser work? I know that it's a old mans brew, but it's cold and boy is it ever good...........
OD - please...so many good American brewers to choose from...surely you can find it in your heart to patronize one not owned by Belgians?

Every time I see a Budweiser/Mich Ultra/Diet Beer I hear my in-laws jokes rattling around in my head:

"American beer is the first successful attempt to water down water."

"What does sex in a canoe and American beer have in common? They're f'ing close to water."

You're just making my PTSD flare when you post it here.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:32 AM   #79
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I cover all the bases. I'm running 5-30 and have a oil pan heater that I plug in during the winter but should do it year round. That way my oil is around 120 degrees when I start the engine. Since I have an oil pressure/temp gauge in my 3.6 it's easy for me to gain empirical data between cold starts and warm starts.

I believe it's most important using a pan heater during winter, but summer use is also beneficial. My engine starts very easily and warms up very quickly during winter when I use the pan heater. Low idle is reached very quickly. It's worth looking into if you care about such things...
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:19 PM   #80
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XZY - the question is this: do you leave the cords for the heater running out of the grill so everyone can see you have an oil pan heater? I see that a bunch with guys from Richardson and Wainwright - better than a bumper sticker for telling folks where you come from, I suppose.

Actually, that brings up another question - could you use the outlet in your JK to power the oil pan heater before start-up and have hot, tasty oil anywhere you wanted? That might be worth doing for the enthusiasts out there.
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:08 PM   #81
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damn 8000 miles and my "change oil" indicator still has not triggered. 2013 jku.
My new 2013 JK didn't get an oil light until almost 9500 miles. This is what the engine threw at about 11,000 miles:

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Old 05-15-2013, 01:10 PM   #82
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^^^^^ Just kidding. My Jeep is fine. Read the manual and you will be just fine.
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:37 PM   #83
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OD - please...so many good American brewers to choose from...surely you can find it in your heart to patronize one not owned by Belgians?

Every time I see a Budweiser/Mich Ultra/Diet Beer I hear my in-laws jokes rattling around in my head:

"American beer is the first successful attempt to water down water."

"What does sex in a canoe and American beer have in common? They're f'ing close to water."

You're just making my PTSD flare when you post it here.
I'm just setting here, sucking down a cold one and thinking, old habits are really hard to break. Please remember, that I live on the street and these temperatures in Phoenix just soar to new heights daily this time of year. I'm just so thankful that the citizens as they walk by take pity on this 79 year old pathetic looking OD. Once in a while if I'm lucky, well I may even get a twenty (20). If I had only stayed in school, maybe I would have become a Doctor, Oh well it's too late now so I will just relax and drink my beer...........Maybe I can find a chair to keep the sun off of my bald head
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:53 PM   #84
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If bullshitters got paid, Old Dogger would be a billionaire.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:55 PM   #85
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My new 2013 JK didn't get an oil light until almost 9500 miles. This is what the engine threw at about 11,000 miles:

I am getting close to 9000 and still no oil change message. If it doesn't come on at 10000 miles I will take it it and ask for a refund lol
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:40 PM   #86
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Well if Old Dogger will just be kind and leave this thread alone for a few minutes, then we will try to get it back on target. 5w20 is like water!
Since my decision to run 5W30 in my 2013, I have read numerous reports on VVT engines and the need to use the correct viscosity per the engineering oil flow in the engine. I have also e-mailed Chryslers Jeep division and asked why 5w30 in 2012 and 5w20 in 2013. So far I have not received a response. I did call and talk with Technical Service about it and that nobody has responded back to me. They are located in Detroit and the lady that I spoke with at the Tech Center put me on hold and had to go over to another building to get my answer. Well she came back and said that their is no current answer and that they are waiting on their engineering Department to respond. So I wait.
I did back peddle and change my oil yesterday and went back to 5w20 conventional, which is the recommended per my manual. Since it's under warranty I just didn't want to take a chance. It is a fact that 20w will dissipate heat better than 30 weight, it's just the thin viscosity that concerns me. Hopefully their Engineers did their home work and that it is just not a CAFE driven issue.
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:55 PM   #87
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I am getting close to 9000 and still no oil change message. If it doesn't come on at 10000 miles I will take it it and ask for a refund lol
I sent an email to Chrysler Customer Assistance Center at around 9000 miles. I was starting to get worried. Here was the response from Jennifer:

Thank you for contacting the Jeep Customer Assistance Center. I understand your vehicle had now reached 9,000 miles and has not indicated that an oil change is required. As per your Owner's Manual maintenance schedule it is indicating that under no circumstances should oil change intervals exceed 10,000 miles or twelve months, whichever comes first. If your indicator light does not come on as you approach that time frame, we would suggest contacting your local authorized Jeep dealership to schedule a maintenance appointment and to advise them if the light did not iliuminate. Thanks again for your email. Sincerely, Jennifer

She may not be the best speller but she knew what she was talking about. At almost exactly 9500 miles my light came on which fits perfectly with what the manual says:

Based on engine operation conditions, the oil change
indicator message will illuminate. This means that service
is required for your vehicle. Operating conditions such as
frequent short-trips, trailer tow, extremely hot or cold
ambient temperatures, and E85 fuel usage will influence
when the “Change Oil” or “Oil Change Required” message
is displayed. Severe Operating Conditions can cause the
change oil message to illuminate as early as 3,500 miles
(5,600 km) since last reset. Have your vehicle serviced as
soon as possible, within the next 500 miles (805 km).


NOTE: Under no circumstances should oil change intervals
exceed 10,000 miles (16,000 km) or twelve months,
whichever comes first.

I sent a lab sample off and I will be posting the results after my second change. The findings were very interesting to say the least....stay tuned.

17,000 miles and counting down to the second oil change...
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Old 05-15-2013, 05:26 PM   #88
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Let me guess, the oil analysis said you could increase your oil change interval...what do I win? lol.
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Old 05-16-2013, 12:52 AM   #89
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If bullshitters got paid, Old Dogger would be a billionaire.
Could it be possible, that somehow, this old Coot has already made his first Billion, or at least several million? No, no, that's just not possible with only a third grade education and a IQ of a MORON.
Since I don't like to work, just maybe I can get on one of Obamas freebie programs, boy would that ever be nice..............
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:54 AM   #90
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the fact that post warranty they have explicit financial interest in the premature failure of your engine and your car. The fact that they are recommending the same viscosity for Alaska as Arizona is a little fishy to say the least.
And what is it with people thinking theres a conspiracy to make your car break after the warranty is expired? If you would just sit back & think about that from a business stand point for a minute, maybe you will realize that what your saying is BS. Why would a car maker want their car to fail at 105k if the warranty is expired at 100k? Does that honestly sound like a good business practice? If every car you make breaks down at the end of warranty period, why would people keep buying them? They wouldn't. And to blow your theory out of the water all I have to say is " 4.0liter "

And like stated before me, multi-viscocity oil is the reason why you can use the same oil in Alaska & Arizona. And 5w-30 is like water when hot as well. If I put 5w-20 & 5w-30 in seperate glass bottles you can't tell me which one is which. Just run what the factory says & know they can't say you used the wrong oil if you ever have a failure, which I hope you don't. As a mechanic I prefer to do preventative maintenance on your ride then to search for a failure & repair it.

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