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Old 10-26-2012, 09:22 PM   #1
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Front limited slip?

Was just wondering why there is no front limited slip option on non rubi's. It was interesting that a friend of mine with a newer model Nissan frontier pro 4 x mentioned that his vehicle came equipped with both front and rear LSD's. I'm aware they're not the best for off road and they will wear out but for real bad weather driving situations NOT rock crawling why not?

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Old 10-26-2012, 09:28 PM   #2
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Good question. I'm sure there is a good answer (besides cost or something).


That reminds me.

I was just thinking about the Moab edition.

If Jeep really wanted that to kick ass, they should have put a D44 up front and had the locker option apply to the FRONT axle. (Along with opening up the colors)

Locker up front, LSD in the rear.
Mopar rails and bumpers
Good AT tires
Factory covered

That is a win....

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Old 10-26-2012, 09:44 PM   #3
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Probably because a LSD up front without selectable hubs puts the front axle in a bind 99.9% of the time and causes unnecessary wear in the front axle. It can also cause some pretty poor driving characteristics in very slick conditions where there isn't enough traction to slip the clutches. A Torsen would be OK, but not a clutch style and I doubt they could do a Torsen at a competitive cost.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:43 PM   #4
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The Jeep uses BLD. It sort of simulates a LSD and works better IMO in the front axle design of the Jeep.
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Old 10-27-2012, 01:25 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
Probably because a LSD up front without selectable hubs puts the front axle in a bind 99.9% of the time and causes unnecessary wear in the front axle. It can also cause some pretty poor driving characteristics in very slick conditions where there isn't enough traction to slip the clutches. A Torsen would be OK, but not a clutch style and I doubt they could do a Torsen at a competitive cost.
What are your thoughts on using a TruTrac up front?
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:11 PM   #6
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A TruTrac is a Torsen and will only transfer torque when under load so it will not put the front axle in a bind in 2wd.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
A TruTrac is a Torsen and will only transfer torque when under load so it will not put the front axle in a bind in 2wd.

So is the true trac harder on the front axle and driving (turning etc) in 4x4 on say 6" of snow on city streets or a field?

I just put a locker in the rear and an lsd in the front- unlimited wrangler 35" tires d30 and d44 and haven't had the opportunity to test it out yet?
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:22 PM   #8
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Wouldn't an LSD upfront just sit there unnoticed and unused unless you engaged the 4wd? Due to the fact that there is no power being sent to the front in 2wd?
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:00 PM   #9
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A few month back I went threw this same discussion with my gear shop on what to do to make my Jeep sport more off road capable. On my Jeep we put a Eaton True trac in the rear and a Eaton E locker in the front. This was my solution to the problem I'm sure there are others. I was advised not to put the true trac in the front although they have done it before a few times. The set up I have works awesome for the type of wheeling we do.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:37 PM   #10
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Anyone know why an LSD in the front axle would be a problem when not in 4wd?
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:49 PM   #11
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It would probably bind up. Even though there is no power going to the front axle, the front differential is still turning and moving. Your front axle plays a different role than the rear. I would play it safe and go with a locker up front. This way its engaged at low speed and not at high speeds.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahara13 View Post
Anyone know why an LSD in the front axle would be a problem when not in 4wd?
A factory clutch type LSD up front wouldn't be the best on slick roads since it always resists the wheels turning at different speeds. Steering would become more challenging for the average driver. This would happen whether you're in 2wd or 4wd.

As was said above, a torsion style would be better for a front LSD since it only tightens up when power is applied.

Given that most people never take their Jeep off road, the lack of any traction aiding device in the front axle (outside of the Rubicon) doesn't hurt Jeep sales at all.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:17 PM   #13
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Plenty of guys run TrueTracs up front with no problems. That's my plan eventually.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:39 PM   #14
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I have trutracs front and rear, and unless you are doing some wheel in the air rock crawling, this combo cant be beat!
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Anyone know why an LSD in the front axle would be a problem when not in 4wd?
A limited slip is not disengaged when in 2wd.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:59 PM   #16
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Well I have had a Front tru trac LSD up front and in back for 1500 miles and There is ZERO change in my 2005 unlimited wrangler. This past weekend I was able to take it off road and the jeep went anywhere I wanted it too. The guys I 4x4 with were very impressed with the LSD in the front and considering 95% of my driving is in the snow belt a locker would be useless over 15mph. I know I made a great choice for 30mph driving in 6" plus of snow on hwy plus slower on trails but a locker would be awesome for the slow crawl stuff.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:42 PM   #17
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Agreed. A Trutrac is unstoppable in 99.9% of the terrain you throw at it. For that other .01%, all you need to do is ride the brakes if a tire is in the air.

Quote:
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I have trutracs front and rear, and unless you are doing some wheel in the air rock crawling, this combo cant be beat!
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:50 PM   #18
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I run a Aussie locker in the front of my 09 JK that said, in 2wd the locker is in the coast mode and does NOT interfer with the steering of the Jeep. I Have to be in 4wd to know it is even there.
a limited slip even in 4wd will not lock up until tire spin on that axle occurs.
Tru-trac's front and back are great in snow and mud and dry pavement, good choice for a DD
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:21 PM   #19
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A clutch style diff would be fine in the front. Been there.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
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a limited slip even in 4wd will not lock up until tire spin on that axle occurs.
Not true actually. For a gear driven LSD like a TrueTrac, it's constantly sending power back and forth seeking to avoid wheel spin. By contrast, the JK's "brake locking differential" system requires some wheel spin before the brake clamps down.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:59 PM   #21
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Here's how the TT operates. Like an open diff until a wheel starts to spin.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:08 PM   #22
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Here's how the TT operates. Like an open diff until a wheel starts to spin.
Nice find. And to be clear, that shouldn't be confused with suggesting that a TrueTrac actually needs "wheel spin" before it starts working.

Like the paper says, when "one wheel begins to lose traction" the TrueTrac starts working. It works harder and harder as traction decreases. In most instances (when a wheel isn't airbourne), the effect on the ground is that the wheel never "spins" in any visible way. Rather, all the wheels turn at a virtually uniform rate almost as if a locker were present.

This is a significant contrast to the JK's "brake locking differential," which actually allows a wheel to make several free spinning revolutions before it kicks on.

The downside to the TrueTrac is that once a wheel is airbourne and provides no force for the bias ratio to send back the other direction, the TrueTrac is useless and the wheel spins. Unless of course you hit the brakes or--in the case of the JK--the BLD kicks on. This is where a TrueTrac would be inferior to a locker, as the locker would not (obviously) allow for any wheel spin even if a wheel was airbourne.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:29 PM   #23
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Testing a TT.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:39 PM   #24
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^Sounds about right, yes.

Contrast that to a BLD (note especially from 19 seconds onward):



A TrueTrac will "catch" your spin much sooner than that. It really is (usually) almost seamless.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:44 PM   #25
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What would be the cost to go with a selectable locker in the front, something like an e-locker?

I seen some other guys discussing installing ARB air locker setups and was flabbergasted to see it costing over $5 K to have someone install it for you on both axles. Way more than I am willing to spend at this point. Are the e-lockers more reasonable?
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:39 PM   #26
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So I switched out my rear Diff Oil with cheap Dino 5 rated and 4oz lsd oil helper after 1128 miles with my new LSD and R-P gear install. How many miles should I wait to put in some synthetic in the rear? I only have 78 miles on the front diff (new R-P and LSD) but switched out the oil yesturday looked OK but want to do Royal Purple and not worry about either for a few years.. How many miles do I need on the front before I switch it out?

I live in the snow belt so will probably get 400 miles of 4x4 this winter in 4x4 so I guess I'm answering my own question.. Spring..
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:36 PM   #27
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Broke my front right shaft this weekend --damm it sucks being stranded!! I'm starting to believe the front LSD might be to much because you can't turn it off. Locker I could have hit a button on or off but with this LSD (trutrac) its always on in 4x4 and really sucks when you need to turn tight like a locker but u can't turn it off.. In some very tight situations I was better off in 2wd than 4wd with the trutrac but with a locker I would have been better in 4x4 with the locker turned off.... my 2 cents..
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:23 PM   #28
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LSD's will usually slip before your axle snaps, what exactly were you doing?

Over 40,000 miles on the Trutrac in my front D30 on 35" tires with no problems yet.
Wheeled frequenty in very tight sloppy trails. Evans, Elbe, Reiter, etc.
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:30 PM   #29
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LSD's will usually slip before your axle snaps, what exactly were you doing?

Over 40,000 miles on the Trutrac in my front D30 on 35" tires with no problems yet.
Wheeled frequenty in very tight sloppy trails. Evans, Elbe, Reiter, etc.
Are you running stock axles ? I am considering the same setup...

Great thread ...

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Old 01-16-2013, 03:45 PM   #30
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It was a sloppy trail going up hills rocks and wet ground. I was turning fairly sharp to get around a tree and I could feel it binding but figured as you stated that it would give but sure enough BAMM.. The LSD is incredible compared to open diff in the front that is a fact!! I ordered some shafts F&R $1900 so hopefully this won't happen again.. So what breaks next the Knuckles??

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