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Old 08-21-2011, 10:01 AM   #1
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Gears

Ok, I know this topic has probably been beat to death, but me and the wife were talking last night about getting us a small pop up or casita style camper.

I have upgraded my tires to 285/70/17, therefore I lost some power, no mileage drop though. I currently have the 3.73 LS rear with a 6-speed manual, and have lost a slight bit of sixth gear usuability, especially when heading into the southerly wind since I live on the coast.

I contacted a drivetrain shop in NW Houston off of 249, and the guy suggested 4.88's for my manual. I was thining along the lines of 4.56's. My tires measure out to ~ 32.5-33 inches tall, are load range D, so heavy anyway. I would think that with 4.88's and an OD ratio of ~ .85 : 1. my engine would be screaming @ 70-75 if I got out on the interstate, it would scream less so with 4.56's. The guy said he has a set of 4.88's that are three months old from another jeep when a guy installed, removed because of larger tires three months later, and went 5.13's.... but he had an auto. He said 1000 bucks for those, or 1200 for new gears. My issue is I think the 4.56's would be better served with my manual transmission. My brother's Kia Sorento 4x4 had 4.88's, and in OD it ran a touch above 3K rpms. Seems kinda high, but he stayed above 21 mpg highway, and ~ 22 avg

So the Question: does anyone have any recommendation/experience on which set would be better served in my 6-speed manual? I don't plan to go larger on tires, but do plan to add a BB later down the road, maybe ~ 2" for looks. I know its all relative, but any experience with regearing a 6 speed?

Seems like the most common regears are Auto's due to the extremely tall OD ratio of .69:1, hence why I asked

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Old 08-21-2011, 10:20 AM   #2
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I'm heading to 4.88s when I go to 33s.

I thought about it for long time and was set on 4.10s before I talked myself into 4.56s and now 4.88s. I originally wanted about 2500 RPMs at 70 mph, but have since decided somewhere around 3000 RPMs with 33s is going to be fine.

Next time you're merging onto the highway, just stop upshifting once you get to 4th gear. You should be around 3k at 70 mph. Drive like that for awhile.

Once you get over your initial concerns, you'll realize it's . . . fine. Drives great actually. Makes you realize many of the complaints about the 3.8 are as related to poor gearing as they are to engine output.

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Old 08-21-2011, 10:26 AM   #3
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Quote:
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I'm heading to 4.88s when I go to 33s.

I thought about it for long time and was set on 4.10s before I talked myself into 4.56s and now 4.88s. I originally wanted about 2500 RPMs at 70 mph, but have since decided somewhere around 3000 RPMs with 33s is going to be fine.

Next time you're merging onto the highway, just stop upshifting once you get to 4th gear. You should be around 3k at 70 mph. Drive like that for awhile.

Once you get over your initial concerns, you'll realize it's . . . fine. Drives great actually. Makes you realize many of the complaints about the 3.8 are as related to poor gearing as they are to engine output.
Yeah, that's what the guy at the drivetrain shop said. Easier on the engine to float along, than to lug at lower RPM's. My bro's little 4x4 Kia came factory with low gears, and that underpowered SUV would run 120+, he scared the hell outta me with it, suprised me actually he did not run out of gear sooner

Oh yeah, would I need a different carrier as well? If so, might just go lockers then.... get it allout of the way in one shot.
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Old 08-21-2011, 10:29 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxF150

Oh yeah, would I need a different carrier as well? If so, might just go lockers then.... get it allout of the way in one shot.
I've got the lowly 3.21s, so I've never focused on this answer, but I BELIEVE the answer is "no". I think your 3.73s came with a larger carrier. Double check me on that though.
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Old 08-21-2011, 10:36 AM   #5
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I am having 4.88's installed next week. Currently have 3.21 with 6 speed. 2.5 inch lift and 35's. 6th gear is useless. Like you I wanted to go 4.56 but could not find them. The chart posted on this site indicates about 2800 rpm at 70, so I think the 4.88 will work fine.
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Old 08-21-2011, 10:40 AM   #6
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I am having 4.88's installed next week. Currently have 3.21 with 6 speed. 2.5 inch lift and 35's. 6th gear is useless. Like you I wanted to go 4.56 but could not find them. The chart posted on this site indicates about 2800 rpm at 70, so I think the 4.88 will work fine.
Yeah, the drive train shop wanted MORE to get me 4.56's, and highly recommended 4.88's (seems like a prefered ratio of many 4x4's, especially foriegn jobs). I think 4.88's is the answer too since Yukon 4.56's seem impossible to get. atleast if I get 4.88's, an upsize in tires is possible without the powerloss

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I've got the lowly 3.21s, so I've never focused on this answer, but I BELIEVE the answer is "no". I think your 3.73s came with a larger carrier. Double check me on that though.
I think you are right, just wasn't sure where the line was drawn. Would be a great excuse to tell the wife though...
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:20 PM   #7
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Ok, I did some checking on the 'net here, and it seems the foreign jobs mostly used R&P gears in the mid to high 4 ratio's.

Isuzu Trooper and Rodeo & Amigo, Nissan Xterra and Pathfinder (older ones anyway), Toyota 4 runners and taco's (again, older ones), Kia Sorento, Honda Passport were just someof the examples I used, and all of them had smaller tires than I am now currently running. The 4.66's put my bro's Sorento @ ~ 2800 going 70 mph.

Seems most of those motors are near the power range as mine as well (200 hp/200-240 tq) Maybe 4.10's should have been the minimum for the Wrangler (pre 2012 before the new transmission), and all the way up to 4.88 optional?

But anyway, looks like I am getting set ot fire a shot on those gears, but cannot decide between the 4.56's and 4.88's?

Not much difference except the price is cheaper for the 4.88's.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:33 PM   #8
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Most will say 4.88

We now somebody who has 5.38's with 33's on here
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:38 PM   #9
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I think it's called "Bait & Switch" !!


Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Most will say 4.88

We now somebody who has 5.38's with 33's on here
The OP isn't a newby and has been reading this forum for over a year-

We went over all the gears, for the last 4 months--there's nothing I need to say !

Anyway, I have an auto, most guys with a manual, couldn't care less about what an auto does -

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Old 08-21-2011, 04:50 PM   #10
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Gears- gears- gears, never gets old

Most worthwhile upgrade but expensive.
I understand why some are unsure.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:55 PM   #11
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I think --Rics1997-- has 4.88s and a 6spd--

I seem to remember that he said if he had to doit over, he'd go with 5.13s--

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Old 08-21-2011, 04:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBOX
I think --Rics1997-- has 4.88s and a 6spd--

I seem to remember that he said if he had to doit over, he'd go with 5.13s--

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What size tires, stock 32's?
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Old 08-21-2011, 05:00 PM   #13
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I think that he's got 35s (34")--

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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
What size tires, stock 32's?
I'm not plausative !!

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Old 08-21-2011, 05:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbox
I think that he's got 35s (34")--

i'm not plausative !!

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Old 08-21-2011, 07:00 PM   #15
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Explain to me gearing a little more, still don't understand completely.

Say if I were to put an extremely low set of gears in my 6 speed w/ stock 32's
(no plans by the way)

Let's say 5:38's for the sake of it.

Does the type tranny have anything to do with it?

Would I smoke my tires or will the engine rpms shoot up to an un drivable amount, or both?

Feel like a tard for askin but....
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Old 08-21-2011, 07:25 PM   #16
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Everything depends on tire size/transmission manual/auto and availability of O/D-


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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Explain to me gearing a little more, still don't understand completely.

Say if I were to put an extremely low set of gears in my 6 speed w/ stock 32's
(no plans by the way)

Let's say 5:38's for the sake of it.

Does the type tranny have anything to do with it?

Would I smoke my tires or will the engine rpms shoot up to an un drivable amount, or both?

Feel like a tard for askin but....
It's been tried/tested and semi-approved that 4.88/1 gears are MOST DESIRABLE for jeeps with MANUAL trannys and tires AT LEAST 33" +--in diameter--

Auto trannys, based on past history are satisfactory with 5.13/5.38 gears--with the same size tires-and

This is all based on the O/D ratios of the 6sp vs auto-thats why the present scales show the mathmatical rpms vs diff gears--BASED ON O/D-

My 5.38s with 33.2" tires turns 2600 rpm at 70 mph-in O/D and 3100 rpm, without !!

As soon as you start running 35" tires, even with the 6spd--O/D is usually useless

If you think about 37/38" tires --time for axle swap--ie Dana 60s, so you can get to the 6.xx ratios--

And finally-if I had a non-rubi and 6spd manual--I'd go for 5.13s--it's expensive to regear and you should only doit once, 4.56 is a total waste of money and the gear mfgs, know this-thats why they're scarce !!

5.13s would work just fine if you stay with 33"+ tires, no smaller--

Your gas mileage is gonna be better, your throttle response-better and you'll get to use your O/D and cruise control-if you have to commute !!

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Old 08-21-2011, 07:44 PM   #17
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Nope. I have 4.88 with 33's but have an Auto. Wish I did 5.13 now but the 4.88 is alright for dd but the 5.13 would have been better. Offroad shop convinced me that 5.13 would be too low and I would hate them. Should have listened to the board.
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Old 08-21-2011, 07:53 PM   #18
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Heh Heh, Oh, my memory is the second thing thats going--


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Nope. I have 4.88 with 33's but have an Auto. Wish I did 5.13 now but the 4.88 is alright for dd but the 5.13 would have been better. Offroad shop convinced me that 5.13 would be too low and I would hate them. Should have listened to the board.
I thought you hada 6spd--

There's not that much difference between the 5.13/5.38, but I've been reading on 5 other forums for over 1 year now and the majority of the JK/JKUs with 33/35" tires and auto are sticking with the 5.13 (non-rubi) and 5.38 (Rubi)-

Evidentally some gear mfg have just recentally started producing the 5.38s, for D30 axles, but

Thats getting awful small (pinion) and high rpm-for the front diff !!

I'd be kinda leary of going that ratio in a d30-----

Glad you jumped in here rics !

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Old 08-21-2011, 08:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBOX
Everything depends on tire size/transmission manual/auto and availability of O/D-

It's been tried/tested and semi-approved that 4.88/1 gears are MOST DESIRABLE for jeeps with MANUAL trannys and tires AT LEAST 33" +--in diameter--

Auto trannys, based on past history are satisfactory with 5.13/5.38 gears--with the same size tires-and

This is all based on the O/D ratios of the 6sp vs auto-thats why the present scales show the mathmatical rpms vs diff gears--BASED ON O/D-

My 5.38s with 33.2" tires turns 2600 rpm at 70 mph-in O/D and 3100 rpm, without !!

As soon as you start running 35" tires, even with the 6spd--O/D is usually useless

If you think about 37/38" tires --time for axle swap--ie Dana 60s, so you can get to the 6.xx ratios--

And finally-if I had a non-rubi and 6spd manual--I'd go for 5.13s--it's expensive to regear and you should only doit once, 4.56 is a total waste of money and the gear mfgs, know this-thats why they're scarce !!

5.13s would work just fine if you stay with 33"+ tires, no smaller--

Your gas mileage is gonna be better, your throttle response-better and you'll get to use your O/D and cruise control-if you have to commute !!

JIMBO
Ok... Sortagotit

Why "non rubi" 6 speed 5.13?

So I could go with my stock 32's to 4.88 and be good?

I've seen the charts but never could figure out why the Tj rubi (31's) and Jk (32's) have the same GR (4.10)

Thanks for clearing this up, read all the threads but people usually associate regearing either with the auto (stock) or going to a bigger tire regardless
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Old 08-21-2011, 08:13 PM   #20
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I use the term--NON-RUBI, because they only have Dana 30 front diffs and the 5.13s were the lowest ratio you could get for the D30 diffs--


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Ok... Sortagotit

Why "non rubi" 6 speed 5.13?

So I could go with my stock 32's to 4.88 and be good?

I've seen the charts but never could figure out why the Tj rubi (31's) and Jk (32's) have the same GR (4.10)

Thanks for clearing this up, read all the threads but people usually associate regearing either with the auto (stock) or going to a bigger tire regardless
For the RUBIs, because of physical size (D44) they were made up to 5.38 gears and there's not that much physical size diff, between the 5.38 pinion and the 4.10 pinion (stock)--

4.88 has proven to be an acceptable ratio for the 6spd tranny and 33" tires--if you goto bigger tires the 4.88 starts falling "SHORT" !!

It's a jungle out there !

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Old 08-21-2011, 08:23 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBOX
I use the term--NON-RUBI, because they only have Dana 30 front diffs and the 5.13s were the lowest ratio you could get for the D30 diffs--

For the RUBIs, because of physical size (D44) they were made up to 5.38 gears and there's not that much physical size diff, between the 5.38 pinion and the 4.10 pinion (stock)--

4.88 has proven to be an acceptable ratio for the 6spd tranny and 33" tires--if you goto bigger tires the 4.88 starts falling "SHORT" !!

It's a jungle out there !

JIMBO
gotcha
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Old 08-21-2011, 08:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10
Explain to me gearing a little more, still don't understand completely.

Say if I were to put an extremely low set of gears in my 6 speed w/ stock 32's
(no plans by the way)

Let's say 5:38's for the sake of it.

Does the type tranny have anything to do with it?

Would I smoke my tires or will the engine rpms shoot up to an un drivable amount, or both?
Jimbox has ya covered here I think. 5.38s on a 6 speed with 32s would be great at low speeds, the problem is you'd be spinning well over 3k RPM at highway speeds. You essentially "run out of gear" by going too far--you'd be dying to shift into "7th" but it wouldn't be there for you. 4.88 would be as high as I would recommend for stock tires and a 6 speed.
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Old 08-21-2011, 08:58 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH

Jimbox has ya covered here I think. 5.38s on a 6 speed with 32s would be great at low speeds, the problem is you'd be spinning well over 3k RPM at highway speeds. You essentially "run out of gear" by going too far--you'd be dying to shift into "7th" but it wouldn't be there for you. 4.88 would be as high as I would recommend for stock tires and a 6 speed.
Thanks Mike,

U did sum it up.

First gear would prob be non existent in normal driving.

Not too much chat on lower gearing while maintaining stock tires--only bigger--
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Old 08-22-2011, 12:31 AM   #24
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I have an '09 X, I put bigger wheels on just about 2 years ago. I never really asked the question till now but should I look into a different gear ratio? I honestly don't know what the stock gears are..didn't really pay attention to that part...

I'm looking to make more improvements but not sure where to start. It's my everyday driver but do limited climbing and trails when I can find the time and spots.
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Old 08-22-2011, 12:41 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKJeepGirl View Post
I have an '09 X, I put bigger wheels on just about 2 years ago. I never really asked the question till now but should I look into a different gear ratio? I honestly don't know what the stock gears are..didn't really pay attention to that part...

I'm looking to make more improvements but not sure where to start. It's my everyday driver but do limited climbing and trails when I can find the time and spots.
Manual or automatic? Does it have a tow package? If it is a Auto it has 3.73 gears. If it is a Manual you can have either 3.21 or 3.73 but if it has the tow package it is a 3.73.

But it depends on how big a tire you have. I put on 33's and went with 4.88 gears but really wish I did 5.13 but tires size and type of transmission is needed to know what would be the best gears for your Jeep.
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:17 AM   #26
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Manual or automatic? Does it have a tow package? If it is a Auto it has 3.73 gears. If it is a Manual you can have either 3.21 or 3.73 but if it has the tow package it is a 3.73.

But it depends on how big a tire you have. I put on 33's and went with 4.88 gears but really wish I did 5.13 but tires size and type of transmission is needed to know what would be the best gears for your Jeep.

It's a manual, no tow pkg, and I'm running 33s... :-)
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:51 AM   #27
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Quote:
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It's a manual, no tow pkg, and I'm running 33s... :-)
Your Jeep would have more "get up and go" if you went ot 4.56s or 4.88s. You probably have 3.21s now, potentially have 3.73s. But if you're happy with what you've got, it's probably not worth the expense. A regear is about ~$1200.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:15 AM   #28
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you can do a lotta mods, for the price of one gear change !!


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Originally Posted by JKJeepGirl View Post
I have an '09 X, I put bigger wheels on just about 2 years ago. I never really asked the question till now but should I look into a different gear ratio? I honestly don't know what the stock gears are..didn't really pay attention to that part...

I'm looking to make more improvements but not sure where to start. It's my everyday driver but do limited climbing and trails when I can find the time and spots.
If you've gone two years already, probably shouldn't change the gears now--lotta money !

Quote:
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Manual or automatic? Does it have a tow package? If it is a Auto it has 3.73 gears. If it is a Manual you can have either 3.21 or 3.73 but if it has the tow package it is a 3.73.

But it depends on how big a tire you have. I put on 33's and went with 4.88 gears but really wish I did 5.13 but tires size and type of transmission is needed to know what would be the best gears for your Jeep.
-

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Originally Posted by JKJeepGirl View Post
It's a manual, no tow pkg, and I'm running 33s... :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH View Post
Your Jeep would have more "get up and go" if you went ot 4.56s or 4.88s. You probably have 3.21s now, potentially have 3.73s. But if you're happy with what you've got, it's probably not worth the expense. A regear is about ~$1200.
I think rics has the best experience--and also probably the best idea, you should NEVER try 4.56 gears--4.88 or the most practical 5.13 gears--

There all about the same costs and the 5.13s, will still allow you to vary tire size FOREVER and you'll still get better mileage and realize better off-road performance !!

Keepyerpowderdry-

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Old 08-22-2011, 11:39 AM   #29
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FWIW, I would never go with used gears to save $200 unless they will give you a written guarantee that they will be noise and trouble free.
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Old 08-22-2011, 07:59 PM   #30
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Front and rear?

My 2011 Sport came with AT and 3.73 rears, but the build sheet does not designate what gearing is in the front. When ya'll talk about swapping gears, are you talking the same gears front AND rear, or just the rear?

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